Formal night...another way of Holland America getting cheaper?

[Wastegirl]

My DH hates getting dressed up, I struggle to get him into a jacket, tie and dress pants and we always end up only attending 1 formal night.

 

The thing I notice is that formal nights are not that different from smart casual nights other than everyone dressed in their best 'bib and tucker' and a plethora of photographers about. Yes the dining room may have chair covers and the menu supposedly a bit more upmarket but nothing dramatic.

 

What I would like to see is one 'theme' night per cruise, announced beforehand so you know what to bring. People could chosoe between just a simple colour statement all the way up to a full outfit, if they so want. Then have a Mardi Gras feel on the ship, roving entertainment, decorations and a real party atmosphere. The ship would sell more alcohol, the photographers would be busy, the evening would go onto the 'wee' hours. It would be fun but at the same time those that want to really dress up could do so, those that want to be wacky can do so and those that just want to wear jeans and a T Shirt reflecting the theme, can do so.

 

I better stop before I have this whole event planned :D But people know where I am coming from, to retain a special evening, you need to make it more special than just dressing up in your good clobber (clothing to non Aussies).

 

To answer to OP's question, I am in the camp of "reducing the formal nights is not a cost cutting exercise" as what they lose in extra revenue in drinks and photos out way the cost of their inexpensive farmed lobster, etc. Now if they were offering top quality cold seawater southern rock lobster, currently $100 per kilo in Australia, I might get dressed up for that :)

[frankc98376]

I remember back in the "old days" (early 80's) South African Lobster Tails on the Rotterdam- they we so good. I think our table put away 3 if them each one night- the waiters just kept bringing them

[iancal]

Yes. Our Bowling League also made black tie optional last year.

 

I understand that most 4H clubs have eliminated the black tie requirement from their annual festive banquets.

 

The Legion folks, whose premises they use for the event, did not like it, but hey the trend is definitely toward more casual.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iancal

[cruz chic]

I think cutbacks will have to be expected as HAL customers seem to be mainly interested in the "lowest price cruise". How can they come up with the "fancy" dinners twice a week, when they could reduce that by half. I think it's less about the fact that people don't want to dress up, and more that the dinners cost less!

 

I still pay plenty for my cruises because I'm stupid enough to book early when hal has their prices sky high. If hal priced more reasonably right out of the gate it wouldn't have to have fire sales or give cabins away. Then the food might be better.

[sail7seas]

I remember back in the "old days" (early 80's) South African Lobster Tails on the Rotterdam- they we so good. I think our table put away 3 if them each one night- the waiters just kept bringing them

 

I remember that on the ships early 90's. I'm from Boston and used to wonderful lobster and we enjoyed the lobster they served 'back then'. :D

 

Edited December 17, 2014 by sail7seas

[Tante Amalie]

HAL really needs to update its dress code policy. I doubt it's the main reason they are losing business, but it's definitely not helping. For the record, we dress up for formal nights and DH always wears a tux. But frankly, I could care less what the other passengers wear and I feel sorry for the people who let something as trivial as that ruin their dinner. I don't get it.

 

We are among those who are drifting away from HAL. It's not the dress code, but their general decline in quality. The "formal" dinners are barely discernible from the other meals.

 

For our future cruises, we have mainly moved to more upscale lines. Crystal had a more relaxed dress code than HAL even before they made a recent change to NEVER requiring a tie. On our last Crystal cruise, most people dressed up on Formal Optional nights even though they didn't have to.

 

By the way, I find the attitude of many of the old school/traditionalists on this thread somewhat laughable. There seems to be an undercurrent of considering those who don't want to dress up as uncouth slobs. Believe me, the passengers on Crystal and Silversea who don't like formal dress do not fit this image. They are among the most highly educated, well traveled, professional and affluent people you will ever meet. They look sharp whether or not it's in formal clothes. Crystal relaxed its dress code because these people don't want to dress up--it's as simple as that. I don't see how the HAL cheerleaders can justify looking down their noses at these people. If you have real class, you don't judge someone by something as superficial as their desire to dress in formal clothes. Just because you squeeze yourself into a $99 tuxedo, it doesn't make you classy.

[cruz chic]

Is there such a thing as a $99 tux? I find the comment earlier in the thread about people not wanting to book a neptune suite because they don't want to dress up pretty laughable too. I'm not sure how you can even compare upscale lines to hal. I would think they would be multiples of hal in price.

[Kingwood]

we just returned from 11 day s. caribbean and I did not see even one tux.

no long formal gowns either. blingy pants and tops, dresses, etc but no ball gowns.

 

men did good to get a sports jacket on.

[Tante Amalie]

Here's a Tux for $94.95:

 

http://www.buy4lesstuxedo.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2-Button-Notch-Tuxedo

 

There are probably cheaper ones out there too.

[sammiedawg]

HAL really needs to update its dress code policy. I doubt it's the main reason they are losing business, but it's definitely not helping. For the record, we dress up for formal nights and DH always wears a tux. But frankly, I could care less what the other passengers wear and I feel sorry for the people who let something as trivial as that ruin their dinner. I don't get it.

 

We are among those who are drifting away from HAL. It's not the dress code, but their general decline in quality. The "formal" dinners are barely discernible from the other meals.

 

For our future cruises, we have mainly moved to more upscale lines. Crystal had a more relaxed dress code than HAL even before they made a recent change to NEVER requiring a tie. On our last Crystal cruise, most people dressed up on Formal Optional nights even though they didn't have to.

 

By the way, I find the attitude of many of the old school/traditionalists on this thread somewhat laughable. There seems to be an undercurrent of considering those who don't want to dress up as uncouth slobs. Believe me, the passengers on Crystal and Silversea who don't like formal dress do not fit this image. They are among the most highly educated, well traveled, professional and affluent people you will ever meet. They look sharp whether or not it's in formal clothes. Crystal relaxed its dress code because these people don't want to dress up--it's as simple as that. I don't see how the HAL cheerleaders can justify looking down their noses at these people. If you have real class, you don't judge someone by something as superficial as their desire to dress in formal clothes. Just because you squeeze yourself into a $99 tuxedo, it doesn't make you classy.

 

Very well said!

[north29]

HAL really needs to update its dress code policy. I doubt it's the main reason they are losing business, but it's definitely not helping. For the record, we dress up for formal nights and DH always wears a tux. But frankly, I could care less what the other passengers wear and I feel sorry for the people who let something as trivial as that ruin their dinner. I don't get it.

 

We are among those who are drifting away from HAL. It's not the dress code, but their general decline in quality. The "formal" dinners are barely discernible from the other meals.

 

For our future cruises, we have mainly moved to more upscale lines. Crystal had a more relaxed dress code than HAL even before they made a recent change to NEVER requiring a tie. On our last Crystal cruise, most people dressed up on Formal Optional nights even though they didn't have to.

 

By the way, I find the attitude of many of the old school/traditionalists on this thread somewhat laughable. There seems to be an undercurrent of considering those who don't want to dress up as uncouth slobs. Believe me, the passengers on Crystal and Silversea who don't like formal dress do not fit this image. They are among the most highly educated, well traveled, professional and affluent people you will ever meet. They look sharp whether or not it's in formal clothes. Crystal relaxed its dress code because these people don't want to dress up--it's as simple as that. I don't see how the HAL cheerleaders can justify looking down their noses at these people. If you have real class, you don't judge someone by something as superficial as their desire to dress in formal clothes. Just because you squeeze yourself into a $99 tuxedo, it doesn't make you classy.

I wish I had said that.

[iancal]

I think it is as much aspirational as anything else.

 

We sometimes chuckle to ourselves when we read some posters comments about buying formal clothes at a thrift ship or from on line/mail order shop.

 

Do people really think that the reason we prefer casual is because we cannot afford a $90. tuxedo or dress? Either they do not understand it or they do not want to understand it.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iancal

[cruz chic]

I think it is as much aspirational as anything else.

 

We sometimes chuckle to ourselves when we read some posters comments about buying formal clothes at a thrift ship or from on line/mail order shop.

 

Do people really think that the reason we prefer casual is because we cannot afford a $90. tuxedo or dress? Either they do not understand it or they do not want to understand it.

 

And yet you hear people say that they don't want to dress up because of luggage restrictions. They don't want to pay $20 to bring an extra bag so is it really far fetched? Then you read about people that bring table clothes in their suitcase. Pretty ok on the weight for that. It's quite refreshing when I hear someone actually say I don't want to dress up.

[iancal]

Why on earth make an excuse or an apology? No reason to. It is not as though it is deep dark family secret or somehow we are breaking the solemn ancient and accepted rules of society. We very much prefer casual. There are many like us. We all have ten fingers and ten toes, but no horns so not much different than anyone else.

 

It also suits how we travel.

 

Table cloths???? Would that be linen, polyester, or plain old plastic? New one on us. Hope they don't forget the napkins and the napkin rings. Go figure. Each to their own.

Edited December 18, 2014 by iancal

[cruz chic]

Why on earth make an excuse or an apology? No reason to. It is not as though it is deep dark family secret or somehow we are breaking the solemn ancient and accepted rules of society. We very much prefer casual. There are many like us. We all have ten fingers and ten toes, but no horns so not much different than anyone else.

 

It also suits how we travel.

 

Table cloths???? Would that be linen, polyester, or plain old plastic? New one on us. Hope they don't forget the napkins and the napkin rings. Go figure. Each to their own.

 

Agree with you 100%. Just be honest instead of making up stories.

 

Yeah, I just don't get the whole tablecloth thing. I'm definitely more formal then a situation dictates but that's the way I am. I just don't get the tablecloth thing. There was even a discussion on how to keep it anchored in the wind. That's way, way too much trouble.

[albingirl]

I think they definitely saved a lot of money on our recent 42-day cruise on Maasdam - we had only 6 formal nights, and they also managed to have them on the same nights as the Cellar Master's dinners or Le Cirque, so the passengers who attended those dinners missed the formal night dinners. I had lobster and steak only once, another night they had lobster thermidor, which had something like 3 bites of lobster in a mass of sauce. I don't remember seeing escargots ever, but they might have served them on nights we were dining elsewhere. The menu seems to have been reduced as well on ordinary nights, with the three "every day" items lumped with two vegetarian dishes and perhaps another three choices. After one try of the "every day" steak, we never ate it again. Quite tough and tasteless. The salmon was good when cooked properly. We found we ate more dinners in the Lido than ever before, and many times the open seating dining room was half empty - or half full, if you look at it that way!:)

 

This is an example of 2 people being on the same cruise, and having different experiences. There was escargot served 2 or 3 times on this cruise, as well as many opportunities for lobster tails and filet mignon. We never ate dinner in the Lido and were very happy with the MDR. I think HAL pulled out everything they could with the food on this cruise. The buffet on the day of the Captain's night was unbelievable, and tho it was chaotic the first 15 minutes or so with crowds, it calmed down and was perfectly lovely. I can't imagine complaining about the food on the Maasdam. Can't imagine what was not offered. This was a port intensive cruise while we were in Europe, so I was quite happy there was not a formal night every 3 or 4 nights. We were tired from touring.

[Ocean Dancer]

My DH is retired white collar, meaning that he HAD to dress up for work each day. Now we have a small farm to manage..........Yes, I'm the poster who said our chickens are in love with my DH under the "pooping dog " thread.

 

Not only are our shoes full of chicken poop, our clothes are full of wood chips from tending our acreage. We do get pretty dirty, this is our choice, and we love our lifestyle.

 

With that said, we do clean up pretty well and do like to dress up when we can. That is one of the many reasons we love to cruise. We see the formal nights more relaxed in the past several years and on our next cruise in Oct/45 day.......this will be the first time DH will not pack his tux, and I have been semi formal for many years........no ball gown. The luggage issue if no excuse, as one poster said, "just say you do not want to dress up"

 

Also if one can purchase a $99.00 quality tux, or obtain a formal dress from the Goodwill, what business is it of yours? Even the tablecloth can work inside. People pack all sorts of "stuff" that we do not understand. Please do not judge until you've walked in their shoes.............chicken poop and all.;)

[cruz chic]

My DH is retired white collar, meaning that he HAD to dress up for work each day. Now we have a small farm to manage..........Yes, I'm the poster who said our chickens are in love with my DH under the "pooping dog " thread.

 

Not only are our shoes full of chicken poop, our clothes are full of wood chips from tending our acreage. We do get pretty dirty, this is our choice, and we love our lifestyle.

 

With that said, we do clean up pretty well and do like to dress up when we can. That is one of the many reasons we love to cruise. We see the formal nights more relaxed in the past several years and on our next cruise in Oct/45 day.......this will be the first time DH will not pack his tux, and I have been semi formal for many years........no ball gown. The luggage issue if no excuse, as one poster said, "just say you do not want to dress up"

 

Also if one can purchase a $99.00 quality tux, or obtain a formal dress from the Goodwill, what business is it of yours? Even the tablecloth can work inside. People pack all sorts of "stuff" that we do not understand. Please do not judge until you've walked in their shoes.............chicken poop and all.;)

 

I'm not judging people. My point is that people use all sorts of excuses for not dressing up. Just say "I don't want to". There is no harm it that but people have to give every excuse under the sun. My favorite is "I've dressed up for work for 30+ years". Yup, I have too. So what? I'll do it because it's asked of me and I won't complain about it. When the formal nights are done I won't complain about that either. I'll never understand bringing a tablecloth and I believe I have a right to not understand. I'm not asking people not to. I just don't get it. I'd rather bring more clothes. I think that's ok? Isn't it?

[CowPrincess]

I think it is as much aspirational as anything else.

 

We sometimes chuckle to ourselves when we read some posters comments about buying formal clothes at a thrift ship or from on line/mail order shop.

 

Do people really think that the reason we prefer casual is because we cannot afford a $90. tuxedo or dress? Either they do not understand it or they do not want to understand it.

 

I'm glad that my thrift store shopping has brightened your day :) though I honestly don't know how. I am clean and appropriately dressed for whatever the occasion. Does the source of that clothing matter? Do you really thing I cannot afford to shop elsewhere? And I am asking this with respect, though it may not translate into the typed word.... I fear it sounds snarky and that is not my intent.

 

I buy online, at thrift shops, on ebay.... wherever I can find suitable clothes that are age-appropriate. Most of my friends do the same. Living outside a major centre makes age-appropriate clothing difficult/impossible to find. Of course, if I wanted to show up everywhere I went in spandex biking outfits, or halter tops, or mini skirts, I could shop locally :eek: Trust me, I am doing my fellow pax a favor :D

[CowPrincess]

>SNIP<

 

Not only are our shoes full of chicken poop, our clothes are full of wood chips from tending our acreage. We do get pretty dirty, this is our choice, and we love our lifestyle.

>SNIP<

Please do not judge until you've walked in their shoes.............chicken poop and all.;)

 

Thanks for a morning smile :)

[cbr663]

To the OP and those who enjoy formal nights, I can certainly understand how you feel that eliminating some formal nights is a cut in service. Let's face it - that is exactly what it is. You are receiving less than you otherwise expect.

 

As I stated earlier in this thread, I think that HAL actually loses money when it cancels a formal night. Unfortunately for the OP, I an guessing this has more to do with the current more casual trend and trying to maintain staffing levels throughout the ship than it is to save money.

 

It must be really difficult for HAL to schedule staff for formal nights when it doesn't have a clear indication of how many passengers will actually participate. If more and more passengers over numerous cruises are simply not participating in formal night, then I am guessing that HAL must simply concede that formal nights are not meeting their passengers' needs and start eliminating some nights.

[iancal]

IF you read my post you would find that I was no in any way critical of anyone buying inexpensive clothing from where ever.

 

In fact, I could care less where someone buys their clothing or what they pay.

 

My comments centered on some people out there actually seem to believe that those of us who choose to remain casual do so because we cannot afford formal clothing. It is as though they cannot comprehend someone doing something different or acting in a different manner than them.

 

My comments about table cloths were not directed at you or anyone else. IF you read my last comment it was 'to each his own'. I could care less if someone brings a tablecloth, a table setting, or a table on board. Not my business, has no impact on me whatsoever.

[kazu]

This is an example of 2 people being on the same cruise, and having different experiences. There was escargot served 2 or 3 times on this cruise, as well as many opportunities for lobster tails and filet mignon. We never ate dinner in the Lido and were very happy with the MDR. I think HAL pulled out everything they could with the food on this cruise. The buffet on the day of the Captain's night was unbelievable, and tho it was chaotic the first 15 minutes or so with crowds, it calmed down and was perfectly lovely. I can't imagine complaining about the food on the Maasdam. Can't imagine what was not offered. This was a port intensive cruise while we were in Europe, so I was quite happy there was not a formal night every 3 or 4 nights. We were tired from touring.

 

If Vict0riann went to Cellar Master Dinners, Le Cirque, etc. as she reported (and stated that she may have missed the escargots) then she probably missed that stuff. Most times when we do these special evenings they are not in conflict with Formal Nights. It makes no sense to have them conflicting IMO.

 

I found that once on the Prinsendam. We went to Le Cirque and it was escargots night. I told our waiter I was sad to miss them and they were served to me in the Pinnacle :D

 

Food is very subjective as are experiences. Paying for a dinner the night that the meal is good in the MDR (ie escargots) can be a tad frustrating IMO.

Edited December 18, 2014 by kazu

[Vict0riann]

If Vict0riann went to Cellar Master Dinners, Le Cirque, etc. as she reported (and stated that she may have missed the escargots) then she probably missed that stuff. Most times when we do these special evenings they are not in conflict with Formal Nights. It makes no sense to have them conflicting IMO.

 

I found that once on the Prinsendam. We went to Le Cirque and it was escargots night. I told our waiter I was sad to miss them and they were served to me in the Pinnacle :D

 

Food is very subjective as are experiences. Paying for a dinner the night that the meal is good in the MDR (ie escargots) can be a tad frustrating IMO.

 

Exactly... I imagine they like to see people dressed up for the "fancy" dinners in the Pinnacle, and it wouldn't have mattered if there had been the usual 2 formal nights a week, but as we only had 6 for the six weeks, we actually missed 3 of the formal night dinners in the MDR. That in itself must have saved then some money! (But the dinners in the Pinnacle were wonderful!)

[chrispb]

And yet you hear people say that they don't want to dress up because of luggage restrictions. They don't want to pay $20 to bring an extra bag so is it really far fetched? .

 

It may be only $20 interstate but rather more for long haul.