daily service charge

[SJ]

You seriously can't think you're not already paying paying everyone's salary. , regardless ofpassengers should dother they're the captain, the CEO of the corporation, or the lowest paid deckhand. The money that the company uses to pay their salaries, and everyone's salary, already comes from you, whether from the fare or a service charge.

 

I think you misunderstood. I meant I shouldn't have to pay on top of my fare for non service personnel like ncl thinks passengers should do. All salaries should be included already in the fare we are all paying.

 

Are you saying you would be willing to tip the enginner or the captain someday in the dsc for making sure we get home safely? Just as an example...

[njhorseman]

I think you misunderstood. I meant I shouldn't have to pay on top of my fare for non service personnel like ncl thinks passengers should do. All salaries should be included already in the fare we are all paying.

 

Are you saying you would be willing to tip the enginner or the captain someday in the dsc for making sure we get home safely? Just as an example...

 

In an ideal world everyone's salary would be paid from the base fare, but there are reasons (primarily marketing) why this is unlikely to happen anytime soon on the mass market cruise lines.

 

Frankly, I don't care whose salary is paid from which of my pockets, because it's coming out of my pocket either way. Why does anyone care if something that you're going to be paying for regardless is called salary, fare, service charge or peanut brittle? If I'm going to be charged a dollar, why does it matter what that dollar is called?

 

If you care that much about how you end up paying for salaries, you can always take a luxury cruise line like Regent Seven Seas that includes everything in the fare.

[Shayhooper]

No one said that.

 

You're right. I completely misread a post on the first page and panicked. My bad!

[SJ]

In an ideal world everyone's salary would be paid from the base fare, but there are reasons (primarily marketing) why this is unlikely to happen anytime soon on the mass market cruise lines.

 

Frankly, I don't care whose salary is paid from which of my pockets, because it's coming out of my pocket either way. Why does anyone care if something that you're going to be paying for regardless is called salary, fare, service charge or peanut brittle? If I'm going to be charged a dollar, why does it matter what that dollar is called?

 

If you care that much about how you end up paying for salaries, you can always take a luxury cruise line like Regent Seven Seas that includes everything in the fare.

 

I accept this is the current marketing strategy of cruise lines. However, marketing strategies only work if consumers accept them. In my original post I questioned just how far do we as consumers must accept supplementing the crew's salary in addition to the fares we already pay. How much will be too much or is there no end for those like yourselves in accepting the amount of the DSC? Believe me, Ncl and any other cruiselines will continue to increase until the consumers push back the way we did on the fuel supplement.

 

I am dismayed at how quickly some on this board berate others for how they want to spend their money but yet so accepting of a multi billion dollar corporation passing the buck sort of speak to their consumers.

 

True it matters little when we pay the expenses of a cruiseline like the salary of the crew whether at final payment or thru the DSC onboard. This marketing strategy is a little deceptive especially for those who doesn't know it can be adjusted or that gratuities is mentioned in NCL literature as a separate item from the DSC leading some to believe you need to tip in addition.

Edited February 18, 2015 by SJ

[Out to sea!]

I agree with you. Tipping has become a sport for some people but I think most of the people on this board brag about tips they really don't give. I believe they think the cruise line knows their real names from their screen names ( which they actually can find out or figure out) and want to be labeled cheer leaders by NCL.

I won't be paying the increase in the DSC because I think it's too high. I will tip in cash the waiters and room steward and if they want to turn the cash in then it's their choice. I believe in tipping those that actually serve me not the laundry, the chef, the captain, the CD or Doctor.

 

So are you going to give up cruising or move to a line that has a lower DSC/tips?

[sparks1093]

I agree with you. Tipping has become a sport for some people but I think most of the people on this board brag about tips they really don't give. I believe they think the cruise line knows their real names from their screen names ( which they actually can find out or figure out) and want to be labeled cheer leaders by NCL.

I won't be paying the increase in the DSC because I think it's too high. I will tip in cash the waiters and room steward and if they want to turn the cash in then it's their choice. I believe in tipping those that actually serve me not the laundry, the chef, the captain, the CD or Doctor.

 

Just how far do you think $12 a day per person stretches???? The service charge goes to the tradtionally tipped and tipped out staff that are on other cruise lines.

[njhorseman]

I accept this is the current marketing strategy of cruise lines. However, marketing strategies only work if consumers accept them. In my original post I questioned just how far do we as consumers must accept supplementing the crew's salary in addition to the fares we already pay. How much will be too much or is there no end for those like yourselves in accepting the amount of the DSC? Believe me, Ncl and any other cruiselines will continue to increase until the consumers push back the way we did on the fuel supplement.

 

I am dismayed at how quickly some on this board berate others for how they want to spend their money but yet so accepting of a multi billion dollar corporation passing the buck sort of speak to their consumers.

 

True it matters little when we pay the expenses of a cruiseline like the salary of the crew whether at final payment or thru the DSC onboard. This marketing strategy is a little deceptive especially for those who doesn't know it can be adjusted or that gratuities is mentioned in NCL literature as a separate item from the DSC leading some to believe you need to tip in addition.

 

The fuel surcharge didn't end as a direct result of consumer push back. It ended because at the time it was imposed the cruise lines' contracts didn't contain the wording required to impose it after booking and Florida's AG put a gun to the cruise lines's heads forcing them to remove it. By the time the contractual wording was added the cruise lines had figured out how to protect against unexpected sharp oil price increases by hedging, and anything that wasn't covered by that was just quietly added to the base fare. Once again, you're paying for the price of fuel regardless, whether through the base fare or a surcharge.

Edited February 18, 2015 by njhorseman

[cruzsnooze]

So are you going to give up cruising or move to a line that has a lower DSC/tips?

Absolutely not, I'll cruise and tip at my discretion. The amount is a suggestion not mandatory. I think the $12 is where it belongs and I'll adjust it at guest services to that $12 PP PD. So they can suggest anything they want, it's their privilege just like it's my privilege to decide for myself.

[SJ]

The fuel surcharge didn't end as a direct result of consumer push back. It ended because at the time it was imposed the cruise lines' contracts didn't contain the wording required to impose it after booking and Florida's AG put a gun to the cruise lines's heads forcing them to remove it. By the time the contractual wording was added the cruise lines had figured out how to protect against unexpected sharp oil price increases by hedging, and anything that wasn't covered by that was just quietly added to the base fare. Once again, you're paying for the price of fuel regardless, whether through the base fare or a surcharge.

 

I am fine with paying whatever the base fare is and what it includes. It's the add ons after I paid that's the problem.

 

The AG got involved because consumers massively complained and there was a legal ground for the AG to force cruiselines to remove the charges for those already booked. If the AG got involved on its own accord which I doubt, then I applaud the Florida AG for protecting consumers.

 

Since the disclaimer of fuel supplement was added, fuel has been above the stated price until recently. Why haven't the cruiselines attempted to implement the supplement? Because the market won't bear it and they know that. So they have chosen to hedge their bets on price of fuel and go slower to save fuel. I can accept that because it's clear what I will be purchasing when I book my cruise.

 

Do you see the difference? We all are very aware of additional cost of cruising but there are many more who are not aware whether it's through their own fault or not. If the dsc was not adjustable, cruiselines would be forced to include it in the base fare at time of booking just like the port charges were after the same AG office made it a requirement.

[ARI421]

Have any of you ever talked to the people on these ships? I am an avid cruiser and always left all my tips on till we met people who used to work on the ship! It was their first cruise as guests! We got to know them over the week and discovered how sucky there job was and how little of the 12 a day they actually saw and how it sucked that even upper management received a portion since that day, I have made a point of asking and getting to know the crew! I carry cash on me at all times and tip the man sweeping, the guy polishing the stair I have asked every cabin steward on my last five cruises their preference and every one has prefers I hand them cash.. Hubby and I hand out twice as much tips and that's ok.. I don't usually respond to these things, but seriously, this can be removed it's not like your fuel surcharge.. Do what u feel is best, educate yourselves and leave everyone else and their opinions alone.. Leave the charges on, tip extra whatever.. It's your choice, your opinion and your right, I told you why I do what I do just as a perspective am I gonna bash u because you do it differently of course not.. And for the record when you remove them they ask why, I reply I tip in cash and I hand cash to the person helping me! They don't give u a hard time nor have I ever received bad service

[Out to sea!]

Absolutely not, I'll cruise and tip at my discretion. The amount is a suggestion not mandatory. I think the $12 is where it belongs and I'll adjust it at guest services to that $12 PP PD. So they can suggest anything they want, it's their privilege just like it's my privilege to decide for myself.

 

Your privilege? Just another reason to make the DSC a true service charge and mandatory. So cheap skates can't adjust or remove it on the premise of tipping in person.

[SJ]

Your privilege? Just another reason to make the DSC a true service charge and mandatory. So cheap skates can't adjust or remove it on the premise of tipping in person.

 

It's actually not a privilege, but a right. Both ncl and passengers have to the right to increase and decrease as they wish. The cruiselines just can't make it mandatory without including it in the base fare.

 

There is much disgust over people who does not pay the dsc or reduce it without cash tipping.The same disgust should be directed at multi billion corporations who doesn't want to pay their crew a proper wage and rely on passengers to pay it. Corporations are the biggest cheapskates with their constant cuts and paying lower wages because they can. Imagine if your supermarket want to add a fee to your order for cashier wages. Same concept. Wages should be built into the cost of the product you're buying not as an after fact.

[sparks1093]

It's actually not a privilege, but a right. Both ncl and passengers have to the right to increase and decrease as they wish. The cruiselines just can't make it mandatory without including it in the base fare.

 

There is much disgust over people who does not pay the dsc or reduce it without cash tipping.The same disgust should be directed at multi billion corporations who doesn't want to pay their crew a proper wage and rely on passengers to pay it. Corporations are the biggest cheapskates with their constant cuts and paying lower wages because they can. Imagine if your supermarket want to add a fee to your order for cashier wages. Same concept. Wages should be built into the cost of the product you're buying not as an after fact.

 

Tell that to people working on commission (and that's how I view tips/service charges, a commission that I pay directly to the employee). I know a gentleman that works at a resort hotel as a bellhop and he makes upwards of $50k a year in tips. How much would that corporation have to charge for a room to pay him that kind of a salary, even if the hotel was empty?

[Ewoodspark]

I know a gentleman that works at a resort hotel as a bellhop and he makes upwards of $50k a year in tips.

 

I do hope he declares it as additional income and pays the appropriate tax.

[sparks1093]

I do hope he declares it as additional income and pays the appropriate tax.

 

Wouldn't know, wouldn't care. The IRS has cracked down on those that receive tips and the businesses they work for, so the chances are good that he is.

[LMaxwell]

Your privilege? Just another reason to make the DSC a true service charge and mandatory. So cheap skates can't adjust or remove it on the premise of tipping in person.

NCL defines the DSC as both discretionary and a gratuity. If mandatory it is no longer a gratuity and the discussion never ends.

 

P.S. I am sure many people remove it and tip much more in cash than you do on DSC.

[ARI421]

NCL defines the DSC as both discretionary and a gratuity. If mandatory it is no longer a gratuity and the discussion never ends.

 

P.S. I am sure many people remove it and tip much more in cash than you do on DSC.

 

 

Exactly!!!!!! Well said!

[njhorseman]

NCL defines the DSC as both discretionary and a gratuity. If mandatory it is no longer a gratuity and the discussion never ends.

 

P.S. I am sure many people remove it and tip much more in cash than you do on DSC.

 

Exactly!!!!!! Well said!

 

No, it doesn't define the DSC as a gratuity.

 

Read the guest ticket contract...the word "gratuity" isn't mentioned in the service charge paragraph, and gratuity is not mentioned anywhere in the contract.

 

Read the website's FAQs...there are separate FAQs for the service charge and gratuities, and neither makes any mention of the other. The FAQs make the differences crystal-clear.

 

Don't confuse some poorly worded email written by someone in their office who has no clue about the differences between the two with the actual facts spelled out in their contractual material.

Edited February 18, 2015 by njhorseman

[LMaxwell]

No, it doesn't define the DSC as a gratuity.

 

Read the guest ticket contract...the word "gratuity" isn't mentioned in the service charge paragraph, and gratuity is not mentioned anywhere in the contract.

 

Read the website's FAQs...there are separate FAQs for the service charge and gratuities, and neither makes any mention of the other. The FAQs make the differences crystal-clear.

 

Don't confuse some poorly worded email written by someone in their office who has no clue about the differences between the two with the actual facts spelled out in their contractual material.

For sake of argument, if I can't trust something NCL directly communicated to me why should I trust a different communication from the company?

 

Also since you DO seem relatively well versed on policies please direct me to any policy saying if someone removes DSC and a worker is tipped cash directly the have to turn it in. People here claim both yes and no to that, and each side does it with certainty. Both can't be right.

[SJ]

It's difficult for any organization even the IRS to track cash tips so I very much doubt anyone who relies on tips for a living is reporting it all. I would be amazed if cruiselines know exactly how much cash tips someone received from passengers. Are there hidden cameras in every cabin or something? If a crew tells the passengers they have to turn it in, wouldn't that discourage you from removing the dsc? Isn't that what all the crew want, for you not to remove dsc so they get even more? Therefore, its in the interest of the crew to say they must turn it in whether it's true or not. The crew is very hard working and no fool.

 

As for the bellhop, his job is not worth $50k plus in salary so tips are the incentive for anyone to want that job. But it is a position that is in direct contact with the consumers so most would not object to tipping him just like most passengers are not opposed to tipping the waiters and stewards in addition to their fare. The objection comes from those we do not see or should be salaried employees like guest services or the entertainment staff or their incentive programs from Ncl.

Edited February 19, 2015 by SJ

[Out to sea!]

It's actually not a privilege, but a right. Both ncl and passengers have to the right to increase and decrease as they wish. The cruiselines just can't make it mandatory without including it in the base fare.

 

There is much disgust over people who does not pay the dsc or reduce it without cash tipping.The same disgust should be directed at multi billion corporations who doesn't want to pay their crew a proper wage and rely on passengers to pay it. Corporations are the biggest cheapskates with their constant cuts and paying lower wages because they can. Imagine if your supermarket want to add a fee to your order for cashier wages. Same concept. Wages should be built into the cost of the product you're buying not as an after fact.

 

Actually, yes they can make it mandatory without including it in the base fare. As I have suggested before, make it a mandatory add-on just like port charges and taxes. This way, if a person goes on a cruise it is paid without the ability to modify or remove it. If they have to cancel or miss the cruise, they may lose their base rate but just like port charges and taxes, that portion would be refunded. Also, just like port charges and taxes, it would not have to be paid until final payment date.

 

As for disgust towards how a company runs their business......this is a free market society. If one doesn't like how a company operates, one does not have to do business with said company. If NCL's practice disgusts you or anyone else, show your disgust by doing business with someone else. If you freely elect to do business with NCL then you are expected to follow their protocol. And the reason your example holds no water is because if ALL supermarkets instituted such a policy, they would and you would be left paying it or not shopping there.

 

What is truly funny to watch are all of these armchair quarterbacks who think they know what it takes to run a successful business.

[Out to sea!]

Tell that to people working on commission (and that's how I view tips/service charges, a commission that I pay directly to the employee). I know a gentleman that works at a resort hotel as a bellhop and he makes upwards of $50k a year in tips. How much would that corporation have to charge for a room to pay him that kind of a salary, even if the hotel was empty?

 

That's the thing these people don't understand. With all of the required or non-required benefits that a company has to pay to retain good employees, a $50k a year job costs a business about $80k a year. With the tipping model, the company does not have to offer or mandatorily pay for a lot of things a normal business would have to pay.

[Out to sea!]

Exactly!!!!!! Well said!

 

How can something be well said with absolutely no proof to back it up? :rolleyes:

[LMaxwell]

Actually, yes they can make it mandatory without including it in the base fare. As I have suggested before, make it a mandatory add-on just like port charges and taxes. This way, if a person goes on a cruise it is paid without the ability to modify or remove it. If they have to cancel or miss the cruise, they may lose their base rate but just like port charges and taxes, that portion would be refunded. Also, just like port charges and taxes, it would not have to be paid until final payment date.

 

As for disgust towards how a company runs their business......this is a free market society. If one doesn't like how a company operates, one does not have to do business with said company. If NCL's practice disgusts you or anyone else, show your disgust by doing business with someone else. If you freely elect to do business with NCL then you are expected to follow their protocol. And the reason your example holds no water is because if ALL supermarkets instituted such a policy, they would and you would be left paying it or not shopping there.

 

What is truly funny to watch are all of these armchair quarterbacks who think they know what it takes to run a successful business.

If they made a charge mandatory if would have to be disclosed in the fare. Surprised you do not know that.

[SJ]

Actually, yes they can make it mandatory without including it in the base fare. As I have suggested before, make it a mandatory add-on just like port charges and taxes. This way, if a person goes on a cruise it is paid without the ability to modify or remove it. If they have to cancel or miss the cruise, they may lose their base rate but just like port charges and taxes, that portion would be refunded. Also, just like port charges and taxes, it would not have to be paid until final payment date.

 

As for disgust towards how a company runs their business......this is a free market society. If one doesn't like how a company operates, one does not have to do business with said company. If NCL's practice disgusts you or anyone else, show your disgust by doing business with someone else. If you freely elect to do business with NCL then you are expected to follow their protocol. And the reason your example holds no water is because if ALL supermarkets instituted such a policy, they would and you would be left paying it or not shopping there.

 

 

 

What is truly funny to watch are all of these armchair quarterbacks who think they know what it takes to run a successful business.

 

You're playing semantics here. When I said base fare, I meant the charges would appear before you board, not after so no one is surprised.

 

I don't feel disgust for cruiselines. I just meant the same people who show disgust for their fellow passengers is hypocritical for blindly accepting corporate policies.

 

So as long as every business do it, it makes it right?

Edited February 19, 2015 by SJ