Passenger services act- b/b

[BEAV]

Just wondering if anybody had any ideas of why?

 

I see Radiance ends in Vancouver on May 1 coming from Honolulu. My only guess would be one of two things:

 

1. Ship is scheduled for dry dock? (there's a dry dock facility in nearby Victoria where Radiance was last dry docked in 2011).

 

2. Ship is chartered?

[rsail203]

I felt that the Radiance cruise with a different ship and cruise line resolved the psva problem, but when I mentioned the b/b on the Alaska board, this was posted: "Be careful with the second cruise. If it ends in a US port you may not be allowed to go because of the PSVA (I think that is the act that applies), because the US government sees it as being a single cruise between two US ports without a distant foreign port in between, and that is not allowed, even if it is on two different lines."

 

I just wanted to make sure that we're agreed that we're not violating the psva. That's what all your suggestions have stated that a different ship and cruise line keeps us from the violation.

[BEAV]

Trust me, you can post this question on any number of cruise line, ports of call boards, etc, and you'll receive a variety of answers from 'yes' to 'no' to 'maybe' in between. It's just that over the years I've read accounts where switching ships in Vancouver "satisfied" the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Service Act) which is why I feel you'll be able to accomplish this. You can do a search of "PVSA" on many of these boards to learn of other's experience on this issue. You may want to contact RCCL or Celebrity and ask, however if a general phone Agent doens't appear to know the answer (don't be content with their answer if you feel they are merely guessing), and ask for your call to be elevated.

 

Continued good luck with this. In 2002 we learned about PVSA the hard way when Holland accepted our B2B booking without realizing it was in violation (and we had never heard of it, either). It wasn't until 10 days before we set sail that we were notified and had the rug pulled out from under us.

Edited March 12, 2015 by BEAV

[BEAV]

This thread may be of help to you as there are several references of changing ships in Vancouver as being the tool to make your Seward-Vancouver-Honolulu B2B legal under the PVSA.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1643566

[bccolaman]

Is that because no more than three ships call in Vancouver on a single day anymore? Reason I ask is because we sailed from Ballantyne in September last year, and there were three other ships docked at Canada Place.

 

Here is a link:

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news/news-headlines/vancouver-eyes-strong-season-the-last-for-ballantyne-as-cruise-moves-to-canada-place.html

[Gonzo70]

I felt that the Radiance cruise with a different ship and cruise line resolved the psva problem, but when I mentioned the b/b on the Alaska board, this was posted: "Be careful with the second cruise. If it ends in a US port you may not be allowed to go because of the PSVA (I think that is the act that applies), because the US government sees it as being a single cruise between two US ports without a distant foreign port in between, and that is not allowed, even if it is on two different lines."

 

I just wanted to make sure that we're agreed that we're not violating the psva. That's what all your suggestions have stated that a different ship and cruise line keeps us from the violation.

 

I am almost certain it is legal to do what your are proposing (switching ships). I do not see how that would violate the PVSA.

[rsail203]

Since the PVSA says vessel and not vessels and those referenced posts seem to agree, I'm pretty confident that it is legal. After the Radiance itinerary officially comes out, I'll talk to Celebrity to see what they think, as it's their ship that will be the second cruise.

[varoo]

I felt that the Radiance cruise with a different ship and cruise line resolved the psva problem, but when I mentioned the b/b on the Alaska board, this was posted: "Be careful with the second cruise. If it ends in a US port you may not be allowed to go because of the PSVA (I think that is the act that applies), because the US government sees it as being a single cruise between two US ports without a distant foreign port in between, and that is not allowed, even if it is on two different lines."

 

I just wanted to make sure that we're agreed that we're not violating the psva. That's what all your suggestions have stated that a different ship and cruise line keeps us from the violation.

I can confirm from personal experience that we have done this several times and we were fine by changing ships in Vancouver.

The second cruise ended in a US port each time.

That was specifically the reason we needed to change ships.

 

We know a number of other passengers who have also done it that way, on different dates with different ships.

 

 

The 24 hour limit applies to the ship, so there is no violation if you change ships.

It would only apply if you wanted to re-board the same ship again, as in the previously described situation when there was not a long enough time lapse between disembarking one day and re-boarding the same ship the next day.

 

This is an unusual situation that most cruise ship passengers never encounter, so most cruise booking agents do not seem to be familiar with what the PVSA does and doesn't allow.

 

If you call Celebrity directly to ask about it, unfortunately you may receive false information from an agent who has no factual knowledge about the PVSA or maritime law but merely repeats parroted speculation.

Others will say they don't know and transfer you to a supervisor, who unfortunately may know no more than the first person.

 

Been there, done that, learned from sad experience.

 

If you try to contact Celebrity and can't get through to their legal department, at least try to be transferred to Resolutions where you have a better chance of reaching people who actually know what they are talking about when discussing this matter.

 

...Continued good luck with this. In 2002 we learned about PVSA the hard way when Holland accepted our B2B booking without realizing it was in violation (and we had never heard of it, either). It wasn't until 10 days before we set sail that we were notified and had the rug pulled out from under us.

That is similar to the way we first learned about the PVSA too years ago, and the way that many other innocent, unsuspecting victims (er, passengers) come to learn about it as well.

 

Except in our case we were not notified until only a few days before we were ready to leave for our cruise, which is definitely not a good way to learn about it!

 

There was no easy acceptable alternative solution available to us the first time we ran into the PVSA.

Many people who meant well (but really didn't know what they were talking about) started tossing around a lot of advice, much of which turned out to be just plain wrong.

 

 

The cruise lines don't notify passengers of the conflict in advance because they don't compare the manifests of the two cruises until shortly before the cruise departure date of the first one.

 

So it can be very frustrating, and even infuriating when someone may have booked both cruises a year or more in advance from a reputable agent, but is not informed of the problem until shortly before sailing.

As for using a "certified" or "authorized" outside TA, they may not know any more than the cruise line's own agents.

The first time we encountered this problem, our reservations had been booked through a very well know, reputable travel agency, but the agent and her manager were simply unaware.

 

After that, I am sure that they must have been very aware of the legal restrictions of the PVSA the next time the situation arose. ;)

 

[rsail203]

Very good optimistic info and advice. I appreciate it.

[rsail203]

I found out that EOS will doing Alaska cruises from Seattle this year. Not as good as a round trip from Vancouver, but another possibility. At this time I don't know what their schedule will be. Looking forward to seeing the schedule when it comes out in 2 weeks.

[rsail203]

Last night I put a hold on Radiance of the Seas Seward to Vancouver Alaska cruise from Sept.2nd to Sept.9th, arriving in Vancouver in time for my Celebrity Solstice cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii. Even though it was 2 different vessels on 2 different cruise lines, when I called Celebrity's guest services emergency team to make sure I wouldn't be denied boarding, I was told that it violated the "Jones Act". This wasn't customer services. It was a higher level, supposedly more knowledgeable area. I can't take the chance that I'll be denied boarding so I'll let my hold lapse and check the dates of Carnival and HAL when the come out. I'll continue to keep you posted.

[BEAV]

If I were you, I would try contacting the Customs & Border Patrol Agency and getting a truly official answer on your proposed itinerary.

 

I've read too many accounts here on Cruise Critic where switching vessels in Vancouver satisfied the PVSA for B2B itineraries that both started and ended in two different U.S. ports. This is especially prevalent on Princess and HAL where they have a large number of ships compared to lines like Celebrity and Royal Caribbean. Each May and September both Princess and HAL run a lot of one-night cruises between Seattle and Vancouver as they position their ships to and from Alaska. People will board ship A in Seattle and sail to Vancouver, disembark and then board ship B (the same day) from Seattle to LA. Same scenario as your proposed Anchorage-Honolulu B2B itinerary.

 

Also, I read recently on another thread where it was pointed out the language in the PVSA refers to a single vessel (not vessels) used to transport passengers between two different U.S. ports. I believe the phrase "single vessel" often gets lost and forgotten in these discussions and contributes to the misunderstanding of the PVSA. Just my opinion.....

 

If the person you spoke to at Celebrity did in fact use the term "Jones Act" in your conversation, that would be a red flag to me that they're not fully versed in the law since it refers to cargo ships and is separate from the PVSA.

 

Gook luck as you continue this pursuit!

Edited March 27, 2015 by BEAV

[rsail203]

Beav you are right! This morning I received an e-mail from the Guest Services Emergency Travel Team supervisor telling me that I don't violate the act if I cruise Radiance from Seward to Vancouver and then switch right to Solstice Vancouver to Hawaii. I will be carrying a copy of that e-mail when I embark on the Solstice. Thank you everybody for your inputs.

[BEAV]

That's fantastic. Now you can carry-on with your plans and not have this issue haunting you any more. Enjoy!

[Kartgv]

Last night I put a hold on Radiance of the Seas Seward to Vancouver Alaska cruise from Sept.2nd to Sept.9th, arriving in Vancouver in time for my Celebrity Solstice cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii. Even though it was 2 different vessels on 2 different cruise lines, when I called Celebrity's guest services emergency team to make sure I wouldn't be denied boarding, I was told that it violated the "Jones Act". This wasn't customer services.....

 

How would the boarding crew for the Solstice even know that you had just come off the Radiance? Unless you leave old luggage tags on your bags, as far as they know, you just came from the airport or a hotel or ??? No one's going to be searching any travel records to make sure you didn't just get off another ship; even if they did, this trip does not violate the PVSA, so enjoy both lovely ships!

[Algebralovr]

Beav you are right! This morning I received an e-mail from the Guest Services Emergency Travel Team supervisor telling me that I don't violate the act if I cruise Radiance from Seward to Vancouver and then switch right to Solstice Vancouver to Hawaii. I will be carrying a copy of that e-mail when I embark on the Solstice. Thank you everybody for your inputs.

 

Great news! And I'm glad you finally got an answer. The idea that cruising on two different ships might possibly be a violation just shows most of us that the first person you spoke to was clueless - that and calling it by the wrong name.

[Pushka]

Just confirming - it is ok to do a B2B Vancouver - Anchorage/Anchorage - Vancouver trip on the one ship?

[varoo]

Just confirming - it is ok to do a B2B Vancouver - Anchorage/Anchorage - Vancouver trip on the one ship?

Yes, most definitely OK. Done all the time.

Enjoy your cruises!

[Pushka]

Yes, most definitely OK. Done all the time.

Enjoy your cruises!

 

 

Thankyou. And yes, I'm very excited. Same cabin both legs. The $300 OBC, beverage and gratuities both legs will make is just perfect.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Pushka