Proof of 18% gratuity on specialty restaurants

[jaja]

Still no satisfactory answer from NCL IMO.

 

 

Come on, NCL. Is it too difficult to have someone review the website and remove and/or correct any now erroneous and conflicting info?

 

For YEARS I have been complaining about lack of communication and erroneous communication..(both online and via reps)...NCL only makes things worse when they fail to respect their customers and communicate effectively and in a timely manner.

[hawkeyetlse]

That is because the 18% has nothing to do with the staff. Employers would want to inform their employees they are about to get a raise; that's the only perk for being a boss giving employees more pay.

If they have any kind of collective power (and there are cruise ship crew unions, etc.), they have been getting raises every year, even though the DSC and tips have not been increased every year. And I don't imagine that they worried each time how the company was able to afford it.

[hpecorari]

They updated it today :

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

 

What's the service charge?

Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

However, they didn't change their web in regard to gratuities:

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq#tipping

 

 

What about Gratuities?

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services, and all other ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services and 18% for beverage service.

 

Regardless, do waitstaff ONLY work in specialty restaurants? Or do they keep tabs on how long they work in the free eating establishments and give them a lower % of the DSC. I'm sure they're not working in the free restaurants/buffet out of the goodness of their hearts and I'm sure they're also not only working in specialty restaurants and have the rest of the day off.

 

Harriet

[Demonyte]

What?!!!!:confused:

 

Don't bother - I already tried to question their rationale yesterday but to no avail. They seem to think that DSC and UDP are somehow comparable (as stated by them yesterday) and apparently for them it's either-or or something like that.

[NLH Arizona]

With fewer people in the pool for the DSC since it only applies to the complimentary dining venues, the DSC at the very least should not have been increased. Common sense dictates the DSC should have been decreased as specialty staff is removed. Let us use our brain and see this additional 18% for what it is, increasing revenue for NCL not the hard working people we want to support.

 

I see what you are saying and what I would do, is take the $12.95 and times it by the number of days and then divide that number by the number of employees that get the DSC to arrive at an average figure and then times that figure by the number of servers in the specialty restaurants and then deduct that $4.00 or $5.00 or $6.00 from your DSC at the end of your cruise.,

 

Example: $12.95 x 7 = $90.65 divided by 800 = $0.11 x 36 = $4.08 or if divided by 50 = $5.66.

 

As far as the increase in the DSC (not sure when they raised it the last time), but I would think, just like many of us when we worked, we expected a raise in our pay, except we expected a raise every year. Does NCL raise the DSC every year?

[backsbanny]

Yes but the raise on their salary should be a raise on the salary nit on dsc... Ncl sometimes maybthink that we are stupid...if i see staff working ONLY on the specialty restaurants then its fine with me but i am sure thats not going to be the case...if i see them on regular restaurants as well then i will adjust my dsc i am not going to double tip because ncl wants revenue.if i want to tip extra i will gladly tip by CASH only!

[NLH Arizona]

Yes but the raise on their salary should be a raise on the salary nit on dsc... Ncl sometimes maybthink that we are stupid...if i see staff working ONLY on the specialty restaurants then its fine with me but i am sure thats not going to be the case...if i see them on regular restaurants as well then i will adjust my dsc i am not going to double tip because ncl wants revenue.if i want to tip extra i will gladly tip by CASH only!

The majority of their salary is from the DSC. You are going to pay it one way or another. NCL can either raise the amount of the DSC or raise your fare to cover it. Adjust away and if you have an issue with the raise in the DSC, deduct $6.65 per person for a seven day cruise from the DSC at the end of the cruise. And just tell them that you disagree with the raise in the DSC, because you don't feel the staff's raises should be taken out of the DSC. Edited March 26, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[maywell]

Don't bother - I already tried to question their rationale yesterday but to no avail. They seem to think that DSC and UDP are somehow comparable (as stated by them yesterday) and apparently for them it's either-or or something like that.

Comparable? No, but if you're going to be making a big hoopla over willingly/purposely being nickel and dimed over 'tips', then pick the one that gives you / covers the most. And UDP is a nickel and dimed ploy for specialty dining, if they call that 18% a tax or raised the price by $50-70 without saying why , would you still be making a fuss?

 

Seriously, crying over specialty restaurants which is not included in the cruise fare anyway and you're paying cover charge on top - Simply, don't eat there if you don't want to pay automatic 18%, there's plenty of free venues to eat at on NCL. Or even more better, don't sail with NCL knowing fully well that they charge so much for extras and basics like that. That's not 'cheerleading', that just basic common sense.

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

Edited March 26, 2015 by maywell

[Robin122]

No that has not been updated yet, I would guess that they have a one handed person working in their updating division (just kidding), but really don't know what they haven't updated them all, but at least this is a start.

 

I would guess if they haven't discussed the 18 percent with them, they probably don't know that it is only complimentary restaurant staff in the DSC either. Also, since the laws are different on the POA, if you notice, under the gratuity section it does not say that the 18 percent for spa and salon are gratuities like it does for the rest of the fleet, it is called a service charge, maybe it doesn't apply on that ship.

 

Based on personal experience, yes, they do charge an auto-gratuity of 18% for spa/salon services on POA.

[shealea]

I've been following along with this thread, posting on it a couple of times with my thoughts.

 

What I've been wondering is ....... do NCL staff come here to cruise critic? I'm sure they must be aware of cc???? I'm guessing they are not allowed to post about NCL anywhere on social media or here on cc??!!

 

I wish I could know what staff think about how they are compensated with the dsc and auto gratuities. How it is split up to them and used. Has anyone here ever spoken with any staff about how the money is split and given to them??? And how ncl gives them incentives with the dsc we pay. What are the incentives? Do any of you know???

[Demonyte]

Comparable? No, but if you're going to be making a big hoopla over willingly/purposely being nickel and dimed over 'tips', then pick the one that gives you / covers the most.

 

It doesn't matter what charges you adjust, everything goes to NCL's pockets anyway. What you have been doing is comparing apples to oranges.

 

Seriously, crying over specialty restaurants which is not included in the cruise fare anyway and you're paying cover charge on top - Simply, don't eat there if you don't want to pay automatic 18%, there's plenty of free venues to eat at on NCL. Or even more better, don't sail with NCL knowing fully well that they charge so much for extras and basics like that. That's not 'cheerleading', that just basic common sense.

 

First of all - again - I have no beef with cover charges, I've said since day one that they should have raised the cover charges for $3-5 in each regular (UDP covered) speciality restaurant, plus of course similar raise to UDP price and be done with it. That would have been an upfront and honest action to improve the bottom line and actually quite understandable one, since the cover charges have been the same for very long time now.

 

What I am against that for over 10 days NCL's documentation and official correspondence said (or actually didn't say anything to contradict) that like before, all restaurant staff was covered by DSC, and that IMO they are double dipping by adding suggested gratuities "for our convinience" to speciality dining (plus apparently to coffee shop purchases etc).

 

Because DSC was just raised two weeks before this happening, I still think that despite the one extra word added to their FAQ now, NCL is being dishonest here. The new management just made a major fustercluck by underestimating our intelligence and not acknowledging our need to be communicated to properly.

 

And yes, since the trust is already gone, I'm going to vote with my wallet - our cruise day after tomorrow was already outside the free cancellation period when these things happened and our upcoming cruise next year is a group cruise so my hands are kind of tied with that one.

 

Other than those two cruises with NCL (last ones with NCL in foreseeable future), we have four weeks already booked with Celebrity and probably a lot more to come - also we have already successfully lured six friends who we introduced to NCL to join us on X.

[NLH Arizona]

Based on personal experience, yes, they do charge an auto-gratuity of 18% for spa/salon services on POA.

But they don't call it an auto-gratuity, they call it a service charge only for that ship:

 

Additionally, Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services, and all other ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services..../I].

 

Maybe you can answer the question as to why it is specifically called a service charge on the POA, but called an automatic gratuity for all other ships?

[njhorseman]

But they don't call it an auto-gratuity, they call it a service charge only for that ship:

 

Additionally, Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services, and all other ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services..../I].

 

Maybe you can answer the question as to why it is specifically called a service charge on the POA, but called an automatic gratuity for all other ships?

 

I suspect that federal and Hawaii labor laws and regulations are at play. In all likelihood if they call it a gratuity, all or substantially all of the money would have to go to the worker who performed the service, but by calling it a service charge the money can be doled out under whatever scheme the company puts in place. The other ships, being flagged in the Bahamas and operating in international waters, are not subject to US federal and state labor and tax laws and regulations.

[Demonyte]

Maybe you can answer the question as to why it is specifically called a service charge on the POA, but called an automatic gratuity for all other ships?

 

POA is US flagged and hence under US labor/tax laws whereas other ships that are Bahamian flagged are not.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Demonyte

[Levanah]

It doesn't matter what charges you adjust, everything goes to NCL's pockets anyway. What you have been doing is comparing apples to oranges.

 

 

Because DSC was just raised two weeks before this happening, I still think that despite the one extra word added to their FAQ now, NCL is being dishonest here. The new management just made a major fustercluck by underestimating our intelligence and not acknowledging our need to be communicated to properly.

 

And yes, since the trust is already gone, I'm going to vote with my wallet - our cruise day after tomorrow was already outside the free cancellation period when these things happened and our upcoming cruise next year is a group cruise so my hands are kind of tied with that one.

 

Other than those two cruises with NCL (last ones with NCL in foreseeable future), we have four weeks already booked with Celebrity and probably a lot more to come - also we have already successfully lured six friends who we introduced to NCL to join us on X.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. What we have seen unfolding with the management changes is poor communication, poor customer relations and poor basic PR skills to NCL's loyal customer base. Trust has been damaged.

 

This is a lack of business integrity. I am looking for clues that NCL recognizes this and is making corrections to restore that trust and integrity. Aside from a few weak and ineffective website changes, I do not see evidence that they are making the necessary corrections or repairs. It's full steam ahead with their current plan.

 

Time will tell how much this impacts NCL. If their swift attempts to increase revenue backfire down the road, it will be more costly to the company in the long run.

[backsbanny]

I just got an other new info!!!from now on no more free cirque dream or ilussionarium on first night if you have the udp...i am amazed!!!this month ncl you outdid yourself!!!!!price increase on bar...gratuity raise on bars...raise on dsc...gratuity for special restaurants implemented and now this!!!WOW

[LrgPizza]

I just got an other new info!!!from now on no more free cirque dream or ilussionarium on first night if you have the udp.

So now NCL has added some consistency and made the UDP the same on all ships... When UDP was introduced, it did NOT include the dinner shows at all. They added it for a while, now they have changed again. Personally, I don't see this as a huge deal since it only affects 3 ships. But I agree that in light of all the other changes, it just adds up to suckage.

Edited March 26, 2015 by LrgPizza

[dna529]

I just got an other new info!!!from now on no more free cirque dream or ilussionarium on first night if you have the udp...i am amazed!!!this month ncl you outdid yourself!!!!!price increase on bar...gratuity raise on bars...raise on dsc...gratuity for special restaurants implemented and now this!!!WOW

 

Wow. I guess they haven't made their extra $50 pp yet.:eek:

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Forums mobile app

[rochelle_s]

So now NCL has added some consistency and made the UDP the same on all ships... When UDP was introduced, it did NOT include the dinner shows at all. They added it for a while, now they have changed again. Personally, I don't see this as a huge deal since it only affects 3 ships. But I agree that in light of all the other changes, it just adds up to suckage.

 

It might not be a big deal but when I booked the Epic for March 2016 I could pick two of the promos. The UDP was one of those choices and chosen because of the show being included on the first night. I just got off the phone with my PCC. I have switched my second choice to OBC. My decision was based on the changes made by NCL themselves, not just the removal of the free first night's show but to the whole implementation of 18% auto-gratuity fiasco.

 

 

Rochelle

[maywell]

I just got an other new info!!!from now on no more free cirque dream or ilussionarium on first night if you have the udp...i am amazed!!!this month ncl you outdid yourself!!!!!price increase on bar...gratuity raise on bars...raise on dsc...gratuity for special restaurants implemented and now this!!!WOW

To be honest - its better to booked those shows later in the week than that 1st night because you're settling in and/or dealing with issues/stress of embarkment day. *shrug*

 

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[Txfeenix]

I have waited to get my thoughts straight before posting. Still not sure I can easily transfer the thoughts in my head to this board but I'm ready to try! (Some of you are tough!! So I'm kinda scared! LOL) And yes, I have followed along on this thread as well as the others regarding this issue.

 

I'm a new cruiser...only been on 2 and the 1st one was a spur of the moment purchase. I didn't know about extra charges, DSC or others not so well hidden aboard the ship. By my 2nd sailing (Hawaii), I had found CC and was definitely more prepared. (We missed a Canada New England one in 2012 due to a death in the family.) So being "new", I don't know how things were many years ago or even a few years ago. My perception of cruising was "all inclusive" for basic things (room, food, basic drinks like tea, coffee and water) so when I paid for the 1st cruise, it was done. DH did have drinks & I had my lattes...we paid for those as we went. I don't mind paying for "out of the norm" things like alcohol, lattes, upgraded (read: excellent) food. Those are my personal preference and everyone has their own "must haves". We've tried most of the specialty places and have decided to stick with just Cagneys one or two nights. So the 18% isn't gonna be a big deal for us, BUT!!! I totally agree with the principle of the thing!

 

Can we just go back to paying for the "fare" and having most things included? Get rid of the DSC...how you pay your people shouldn't be my concern! Let the specialty places be an "up charge" and leave it at that! Make the drinks whatever price they need to be to cover your salaries. Just stop with the nickel, dime and 18%!! I realize I can pay the fare and go on a "basic" cruise and not pay for any of the "extras". But if they are starting (continuing in some cases) to pull people out of the DSC, what's the point? Just charge me a slightly higher fare (which they already are from what I can tell) and let me choose the "extra" stuff with a general idea of what it will cost. And before some of you start with the "just add 18% to whatever"...I don't wanna do that much work for a vacation!! Defeats the purpose of "all inclusive, except xyz" to me. If I know I'm gonna eat at Cagneys 2x...I can do that math quick! Doing it and figuring 18% and trying to decide how many is too many lattes with the extra 18% is just too much IMO! And yes, we can afford it...we can cruise and spend whatever, that's not the point! Just charge me a flat fee and leave it alone! If I wanna tip MY waiter, that should be their $ and theirs alone. I thought any cash tip I give to a specific person was theirs to keep - conflicting info on the boards here. Maybe it's a "regional" thing, but most of the land based restaurants we go to - the waiter keeps the $$, it isn't "shared" with the back of the house.

 

Going back to how crew are paid...I work in an industry that's very safety conscious. It's a "team" effort to make sure everyone works and comes home safe. How we accomplish this is mostly a behind the scenes process. Yes, our clients want to know we have a program and the basics, but all the incentives and specific training? NO! We pay employees and expect them to work safe and smart; and incentivize them to do so. Does that $$ come from our clients? Of course it does, that's how businesses work. But do our clients need to know the breakdown of what makes up our employees pay? NO. MY point is, NCL doesn't HAVE to jump thru all these hoops to get the extra $$...they are just pissing people off. Just charge for the fare and flat rates for extras and we won't be all up in your business about how you pay your employees!! Major problem solved IMO!

 

Sorry this was so long... I wanted to try to cover most of the "buts" it may draw. I'm sure I missed a few! 😀

[NLH Arizona]

Can we just go back to paying for the "fare" and having most things included?

Some luxury lines do this, but I think that unless all cruise lines did this, NCL would be priced out of the market. Not to mention, many would say, "now they are charging me for alcohol (put in any of the now for fee items that would then be included) in my fare and I don't drink, that is not fare". I actually like the why it is set now, I get to choose what extras I want to pay for or not.

 

The cruise lines have basically made their bed, with the auto gratuities/DSC and what ever else they call them, and they would have to go as a group to reinvent or turn back the wheel and that will never happen, because one cruise line will want to keep it the way it is, so they could be the cheapest line.

Edited March 26, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[punkincc]

Well, let's consider this: NCL apparently felt the DSC was not sufficient to compensate the waiters who also work ALL or SOME of their nights in a Specialty. These waiters presumably have a higher skill set and experience than the average MDR waiter or Buffet worker who never work in a Specialty.

 

IF NCL had raised the DSC to the point where it was sufficient to reward a Waiter for their time in a Specialty, then everybody who paid DSC would then be paying that subsidy, not just those who go to the Specialties and have the services of a specialty waiter. Remember how we hate paying for services we don't use?

 

So instead, they increased slightly the DSC amount, made it clear it covered the services of the staff who worked those Free Venues, and added an 18% auto grat to the cover charges for the Specialties and UDP packages. That way only those who go to a Specialty pay this extra.

 

So a waiter who works ONLY MDR would have Base Pay (NCL) plus share of DSC = Salary.

 

A waiter who works some hours in the MDR and some in the Specialty would have Base Pay (NCL) plus some share of the DSC, plus some share of the 18% = Salary.

 

None of us know how NCL determines what portion of DSC a worker gets, but it is almost certainly not an equal amount for everyone ( the pool divided by the number in it ) but based on performance and probably determined quarterly or something. That's why they call it an "Incentive Program". Rather like most companies where x amount of $$ are allocated from the budget for bonus/raises and it is given out in salary based on performance.

 

So if this is the case, then maybe this is not Double Dipping after all. I can see that a waiter who works both free and specialty venues would receive some compensation from both pools, DSC and 18% pool. So maybe not truly double dipping in my view.

[Txfeenix]

Some luxury lines do this, but I think that unless all cruise lines did this, NCL would be priced out of the market. Not to mention, many would say, "now they are charging me for alcohol (put in any of the now for fee items that would then be included) in my fare and I don't drink, that is not fare". I actually like the why it is set now, I get to choose what extras I want to pay for or not.

 

The cruise lines have basically made their bed, with the auto gratuities/DSC and what ever else they call them, and they would have to go as a group to reinvent or turn back the wheel and that will never happen, because one cruise line will want to keep it the way it is, so they could be the cheapest line.

 

I guess I'm gonna be one of "those" people....did you read the rest of the paragraph? Pretty much covers your 1st paragraph. Your 2nd paragraph: perhaps showing my "newbie" self, but didn't NCL start the whole Freestyle thing? So IMO a line could "break out" and do something "new" (or go back to the way things were?) and see if it flies. Cuz all these extra charges aren't exactly a good thing!

 

I will say, we choose NCL because we like Freestyle. I don't wanna dress up on vacation, I wanna eat when I feel like it and with or without people I choose. I've looked at other lines and tried to figure out (mostly from these boards) which line is close to NCL so we can try it, but they scare me with the "formal" stuff!

[hpecorari]

Well, let's consider this: NCL apparently felt the DSC was not sufficient to compensate the waiters who also work ALL or SOME of their nights in a Specialty. These waiters presumably have a higher skill set and experience than the average MDR waiter or Buffet worker who never work in a Specialty.

 

IF NCL had raised the DSC to the point where it was sufficient to reward a Waiter for their time in a Specialty, then everybody who paid DSC would then be paying that subsidy, not just those who go to the Specialties and have the services of a specialty waiter. Remember how we hate paying for services we don't use?

 

So instead, they increased slightly the DSC amount, made it clear it covered the services of the staff who worked those Free Venues, and added an 18% auto grat to the cover charges for the Specialties and UDP packages. That way only those who go to a Specialty pay this extra.

 

So a waiter who works ONLY MDR would have Base Pay (NCL) plus share of DSC = Salary.

 

A waiter who works some hours in the MDR and some in the Specialty would have Base Pay (NCL) plus some share of the DSC, plus some share of the 18% = Salary.

 

None of us know how NCL determines what portion of DSC a worker gets, but it is almost certainly not an equal amount for everyone ( the pool divided by the number in it ) but based on performance and probably determined quarterly or something. That's why they call it an "Incentive Program". Rather like most companies where x amount of $$ are allocated from the budget for bonus/raises and it is given out in salary based on performance.

 

So if this is the case, then maybe this is not Double Dipping after all. I can see that a waiter who works both free and specialty venues would receive some compensation from both pools, DSC and 18% pool. So maybe not truly double dipping in my view.

 

Brenda,

I do understand what you're staying and it does make sense to me. However, your statement above, that I highlighted in bold, "increased slightly the DSC amount" would actually depend. On Suites and Haven from $12.00 to $14.95 is not *slightly* to me. $12.00 to $12.95 is. In my mind, of course.

 

Harriet