Camera Safety in Buenos Aires & Rio

[j2ink]

I've read many of the hundreds of postings about safety in these two cities, but most of the information is about general safety, and many indicate tourists should not flash around big, expensive cameras.

 

My concern is that many DSLR cameras look pretty much alike, even though they can range in price from $600 to several thousand dollars, and a lens can add an additional $400 to $2,000 or more to the value.

 

So does that mean that every DSLR camera is at risk of being stolen? I realize the whole safety-thing can be hit and miss. Some posters said they have used their DSLR cameras without problems, but it could be that they were just lucky. Some people said they kept DSLRs in bags and only took them out when they were actually taking a photo, but this doesn't seem like it adds much safety if someone is sizing you up for a robbery. One poster said he bought a carry-strap with wire in it so it couldn't be cut with a knife, but I'm wondering if that would work, or if it would just piss off the thief who would then hit you over the head, or worse.

 

So, what is the bottom line? If I am careful about where and when I go is the benefit of carrying around a DSLR worth the risk, or should I leave the DSLR at home (or on the ship) and use a point-and-shoot camera in these two big cities?

[VidaNaPraia]

Some people put on their seat belts when they get in the car, but it's only when/if something happens that they might realize it was worth taking those precautions. And they might never see an accident coming until it happened. Same with crime in Rio. Maybe it was the precautions, maybe sheer luck.

 

In Rio, the neighborhoods are set up such that the very poor live right next to the very rich. The same rich neighborhoods are the ones with tourist hotels. For some, the temptation is a constant, and if you provide an opportunity, they may take it. A month's minimum official salary is about U$250, and not everyone is lucky enough to get that.

That means that any camera, not just a DSLR, fancy or not, can be at risk. Nobody is stopping to look at the label or price tag. If it's got value, including that U$50 point and shoot, it's gone as fast as some unsuspicious-looking kid can speed by on his bike and snatch it. If you take a taxi to the ticketed heights (Cristo, Sugarloaf) full of other tourists, and taxi straight back to your hotel, your DSLR is probably going to be OK, though, for the iconic photos. Otherwise, use something you can afford, financially and emotionally, to lose. Back up your photos very frequently so you don't lose all of them should the equipment go.

 

And....just IMO...

From the quality of most photos I see posted online of Brazil by those who fancy themselves "photographers", most people who haul around some big-a$$ DSLR could get the same quality of artsy souvenir snapshot from a pocket digital with a good lens.

[Northern Aurora]

We've never been to Rio but spent several days in Buenos Aires last February prior to a cruise. We understood where we were (ie, which neighborhood) and felt very safe in BA. My husband generally left his DSLR camera in our hotel while we were in BA, but the reason was the bulkiness of that camera. The small little point-n-shoot cameras are just so much more compact.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I've read many of the hundreds of postings about safety in these two cities, but most of the information is about general safety, and many indicate tourists should not flash around big, expensive cameras.

 

My concern is that many DSLR cameras look pretty much alike, even though they can range in price from $600 to several thousand dollars, and a lens can add an additional $400 to $2,000 or more to the value.

 

So does that mean that every DSLR camera is at risk of being stolen? I realize the whole safety-thing can be hit and miss. Some posters said they have used their DSLR cameras without problems, but it could be that they were just lucky. Some people said they kept DSLRs in bags and only took them out when they were actually taking a photo, but this doesn't seem like it adds much safety if someone is sizing you up for a robbery. One poster said he bought a carry-strap with wire in it so it couldn't be cut with a knife, but I'm wondering if that would work, or if it would just piss off the thief who would then hit you over the head, or worse.

 

So, what is the bottom line? If I am careful about where and when I go is the benefit of carrying around a DSLR worth the risk, or should I leave the DSLR at home (or on the ship) and use a point-and-shoot camera in these two big cities?

 

 

In BA I carried my APS-C DSLR and my larger medium-format DSLR plus camera bag. Except at night when I left the medium format in the room. Not for safety, but because I can shoot better in the dark with the smaller camera. Is it safe? Probably not. Walking by homeless "camps" at night, etc. I was aware I was at risk. If I was going to worry a lot about that I would have stayed at home and worried instead that a tree might fall on the house. Stuff might happen, being overly cautious is no way to live IMHO. Take and use your DSLR, take a phone or P&S as backup in case the real camera is stolen from you.

[VidaNaPraia]

In BA I carried my APS-C DSLR and my larger medium-format DSLR plus camera bag. Except at night when I left the medium format in the room. Not for safety, but because I can shoot better in the dark with the smaller camera. Is it safe? Probably not. Walking by homeless "camps" at night, etc. I was aware I was at risk. If I was going to worry a lot about that I would have stayed at home and worried instead that a tree might fall on the house. Stuff might happen, being overly cautious is no way to live IMHO. Take and use your DSLR, take a phone or P&S as backup in case the real camera is stolen from you.

 

To continue your analogy.........Carrying a DSLR around in Rio is like cutting the tree halfway through and waiting while standing directly under it in a storm, in spring in an area prone to tornados......sabotaging your own safety, creating further risk. "Stuff might happen", but there is no reason to call attention to yourself in a way that makes it more of a certainty.

It is one thing to say on a forum that "I knew I was at risk." , but if you are violently assaulted because you are carrying a big, obvious, expensive camera, you will never forget the incident.

--------

And btw....Any woman who leaves her house, wherever she lives, knows quite well that "Stuff might happen,", that she is at risk anywhere and at any time from predators, and "being overly cautious is no way to live ....", or she would never crawl out from under the bed. But that woman (most anyway) knows not to create any further risk for herself by her own willful actions.

[Floridiana]

We've never been to Rio but spent several days in Buenos Aires last February prior to a cruise. We understood where we were (ie, which neighborhood) and felt very safe in BA. My husband generally left his DSLR camera in our hotel while we were in BA, but the reason was the bulkiness of that camera. The small little point-n-shoot cameras are just so much more compact.

 

Same here. My husband returned to the hotel with his camera when he saw homeless people waking up in the street in the morning (Microcentro, main drag). My small camera is easily hidden in my inconspicuous cross body/shoulder bag. Take out, shoot, put back. I don't think it is wise to obviously advertise your tourist status from away.

 

Brazilian friends told me that Rio is especially difficult, haven't been there.

[VidaNaPraia]

Brazilian friends told me that Rio is especially difficult....

 

Rio is somewhat unique in that the wealthy and middle class beachside neighborhoods, where most foreign tourists also stay, are backed and surrounded by hillside communities of mostly working poor. Some chic buildings have shacks on the other side of the property fence. So for some, with educational standards so abysmal and upward mobility an impossibility, the wealth they can see daily up close can become a temptation. especially when some foolish or heedless tourist almost hands them something valuable 'on a plate'.

Edited May 18, 2015 by VidaNaPraia

[GottaKnowWhen]

...Carrying a DSLR around in Rio...sabotaging your own safety, creating further risk. ... there is no reason to call attention to yourself in a way that makes it more of a certainty...

 

I am not advocating a mindless go anywhere do anything policy for everyone. Obviously everyone needs to find there own comfort zone. But there are so many people that are not only fearful themselves but seen intent on "protecting" others by sharing that fear. I am just trying to provide a more balanced picture.

 

You are at risk anyplace. You may be safer when traveling in another country (because people may respect you and the bad guys know that messing with tourists is more likely to cause a fuss.) You may be more at risk when traveling (because you are one of the hated imperialists and because tourists by definition are rich and have a lot of cash in their pocket.)

 

Carrying a camera or two may call attention to me. But I am an obvious gringo by size and coloration and clothing so I don't know that the cameras make a difference. I do try to avoid other travelers, and I am particularly vigilant in situations where I am near a bus load of tourists standing looking at a statue or whatever. Any competent thief is going to look for targets of opportunity on the fringes of such a group, whereas I as a self-assured loner (or with my wife) is not likely to look so attractive.

 

So, I am aware, I don't purposely court danger nor do I recommend that others should do that. But there are degrees of risk taking. When I was a rock-climbing instructor, I pushed my students to try moves that they were fearful of; failure might mean a few scrapes and bruises, but success meant a tremendous boost to self-confiodence and the opportunity to practice and continue development of their skills.

 

My attitude is I am not going to let fear of robbery keep me from walking the streets of large cosmopolitan cities like BA. BTW, nothing in my previous post mentioned Rio, I haven't been to Rio in 60 years and that was only for a day. Rio may be a special case. Or not. YMMV, but I hope that your travels are not all within a security cocoon.

[VidaNaPraia]

I am not advocating a mindless go anywhere do anything policy for everyone. Obviously everyone needs to find there own comfort zone. But there are so many people that are not only fearful themselves but seen intent on "protecting" others by sharing that fear. I am just trying to provide a more balanced picture.

 

Many people might read it that way though—as endorsing carrying an object of value into a potentially risky situation. There are so many people who insist on putting themselves at risk, wantonly or not, that perhaps reading a warning might head off a bad situation for them. This is a forum that attracts people from all walks, but mostly those who choose a travel style that is more guided. So the more you argue that what I know to be so is not, the more I will try to head off others reading here from following advice that could get them involved in more than they bargained for.

 

Carrying a camera or two may call attention to me. But I am an obvious gringo by size and coloration and clothing so I don't know that the cameras make a difference. I do try to avoid other travelers, and I am particularly vigilant in situations where I am near a bus load of tourists standing looking at a statue or whatever. Any competent thief is going to look for targets of opportunity on the fringes of such a group, whereas I as a self-assured loner (or with my wife) is not likely to look so attractive.

 

 

That, at least in Rio, is not the case. You are by virtue of those actions an obvious gringo, but not just one of hundreds who may have a few dollars or reais in his pocket, but one flaunting a year’s salary or more (or who knows how much crack) hanging on a thin string around his neck where it can easily be snatched. Of course this adds to your risk.

Being off on your own, away from anyone else, only makes you more of a target of opportunity. These are largely not professional thieves, but kids who take advantage of careless gringos when they present themselves for the picking. They’ve got the knife or gun. You’ve got the camera. And no one is around but you and the wife on a deserted street in some upscale neighborhood where no help is forthcoming. Whose carrying that camera or two now? For all your personal bravado, your wife surely won't forget being held up at knife or gun point.

 

 

So, I am aware, I don't purposely court danger nor do I recommend that others should do that. But there are degrees of risk taking. When I was a rock-climbing instructor, I pushed my students to try moves that they were fearful of; failure might mean a few scrapes and bruises, but success meant a tremendous boost to self-confiodence and the opportunity to practice and continue development of their skills. .

 

 

In Rio, your advice is certainly courting danger, if not outright lying down to be ravished by it.

You would not responsibly have pushed a beginning climber to lead a 5-11, or climb it unbelayed. Don’t encourage newbie travelers to do equally risky things. No photo is worth the life of someone following such advice.

 

 

My attitude is I am not going to let fear of robbery keep me from walking the streets of large cosmopolitan cities like BA. BTW, nothing in my previous post mentioned Rio, I haven't been to Rio in 60 years and that was only for a day. Rio may be a special case. Or not. YMMV, but I hope that your travels are not all within a security cocoon.

 

 

The original question included Rio.

I have spent a couple of decades traveling in Brazil regularly, and living there, as well as a lifetime traveling in other off-the-path world destinations, safely so far, and IMO because of reasoned and reasonable precautions I take.

That is what I encourage--reasoned and reasonable precautions. IMO that does not mean carrying showy cameras in Rio outside of the ticketed heights full of others with what you have.

Edited May 18, 2015 by VidaNaPraia

[GottaKnowWhen]

...That is what I encourage--reasoned and reasonable precautions...

 

I totally agree with you.

 

...IMO that does not mean carrying showy cameras in Rio...

And here I disagree.

 

But yes I do agree with your main point. 5.11 is beyond the newbie (it was always beyond me for that matter!) and free-climbing is idiocy. People need to understand the risks inherent in their activities and make reasoned choices. Your voice is one of caution, my point of view might be a bit less cautious. I wouldn't expect an inexperienced traveler to necessarily travel as I do until they have learned some of the attitudes and behaviors I have acquired over a lifetime of travel and living abroad. But I just hope that they are not so paralyzed by the "dangers" that they are unable to get off the ship or get away from large groups of their fellow travelers.

[woodley]

Please remember that not all "low income or working poor" are crooks out to get the tourists. Many are hard working proud people who are kind and would not ever think to rob you, many have better values than the rich. Some wealthy , educated and privileged people are also dishonest and they are more likely to take you for more than a opportunist criminal.

My advice... treat all people regardless of their background the same, be aware of your surroundings and if you feel its unsafe it probably is.

[VidaNaPraia]

Please remember that not all "low income or working poor" are crooks out to get the tourists. Many are hard working proud people who are kind and would not ever think to rob you, many have better values than the rich. Some wealthy , educated and privileged people are also dishonest and they are more likely to take you for more than a opportunist criminal.

My advice... treat all people regardless of their background the same, be aware of your surroundings and if you feel its unsafe it probably is.

 

Off topic. And political.

 

No one, least of all me, is criticizing the morals of the majority of proud, underpaid, and hard workers in Rio. I do in fact regularly advise here tipping those workers well, as they deserve, for keeping you the tourist comfortable.

 

We are discussing whether it is safe to carry around a large DSLR camera in Rio.

Less likely that the owner of the multi-million dollar apartment in Leblon would rob you of it on the street. More likely some crack-addicted teen. (And yes, that teen might be from the elite, robbing for kicks, but there are more from an environment on the hillside with less hope for a decent future and a way out of their conditions.)

 

And sorry, but on a practical basis, I would cross the street if I saw a certain type of teen in Rio. If that means I don't treat all people alike, so be it.

I also tend to avoid foreign tourists in Brazil as well. :-)

I actually have friends in some of the poorer communities in Rio. Do you visit there often too, for all your off-topic preaching?

Edited May 18, 2015 by VidaNaPraia

[j2ink]

Okay, thanks for all the advice. I think some of the posters have gone far beyond my specific question regarding cameras. I'm not a newbie -- I just have a new DSLR. I've been to over 60 countries and on about 15 cruises. I always book my own tours, either ahead of time or with local taxi drivers. So, the fact that I'm concerned about drawing unneeded attention and possible risk to myself by carrying a $3,000 camera/lens doesn't mean I should stay at home worrying that a tree might fall on my house. These types of responses are really non sequiturs, since my question related only to DSLR cameras, not general safety concerns while traveling.

[VidaNaPraia]

Okay, thanks for all the advice. I think some of the posters have gone far beyond my specific question regarding cameras. I'm not a newbie -- I just have a new DSLR. I've been to over 60 countries and on about 15 cruises. I always book my own tours, either ahead of time or with local taxi drivers. So, the fact that I'm concerned about drawing unneeded attention and possible risk to myself by carrying a $3,000 camera/lens doesn't mean I should stay at home worrying that a tree might fall on my house. These types of responses are really non sequiturs, since my question related only to DSLR cameras, not general safety concerns while traveling.

 

 

Again, in Rio, take the DSLR to the Cristo and to Sugarloaf by taxi and back to the ship by taxi. Anywhere else in Rio, take something inconspicuous.

Best wishes for a good trip.

[woodley]

Off topic. And political.

 

No one, least of all me, is criticizing the morals of the majority of proud, underpaid, and hard workers in Rio. I do in fact regularly advise here tipping those workers well, as they deserve, for keeping you the tourist comfortable.

 

We are discussing whether it is safe to carry around a large DSLR camera in Rio.

Less likely that the owner of the multi-million dollar apartment in Leblon would rob you of it on the street. More likely some crack-addicted teen. (And yes, that teen might be from the elite, robbing for kicks, but there are more from an environment on the hillside with less hope for a decent future and a way out of their conditions.)

 

And sorry, but on a practical basis, I would cross the street if I saw a certain type of teen in Rio. If that means I don't treat all people alike, so be it.

I also tend to avoid foreign tourists in Brazil as well. :-)

I actually have friends in some of the poorer communities in Rio. Do you visit there often too, for all your off-topic preaching?

 

I am sorry if you felt I was "preaching". That was not my intention. No I have never visited Rio but I have been to many other countries and I have worked for many years with the underprivileged. The advice I gave in the last paragraph was regarding feeling unsafe and I would use this intuition in all countries. As I stated, "if you feel unsafe it probably is". As another poster stated they returned their camera to the hotel when they felt unsafe. Nothing had happened to them but they felt it might and so took precautions as any person with common sense would.

[Floridiana]

I think it is appropriate to warn cruise ship passengers to be careful. Many of them - in my experience - have no clue that gold jewelry is an invitation for thieves. On the other hand, some are so scared that they cannot enjoy a marvelous city like Bs.As.

 

To come back to the large and expensive camera, it's really up to you to be aware of your surroundings. It was too much of a hassle for us.

 

I like to read travel blogs and forums, often written by experienced travelers. Shoulder bag sliced open in Bs.As. nothing fell out because it had an interior lining. Ethiopia: Backpack with nothing in it - except a book and a bottle of water - disappeared magically from a monument with nobody around. The thief was later discovered, a little boy at the very edge of one of the photos.

[Floridiana]

And then Manhattan in the 80ies...

[VidaNaPraia]

The advice I gave in the last paragraph was regarding feeling unsafe and I would use this intuition in all countries. As I stated, "if you feel unsafe it probably is". As another poster stated they returned their camera to the hotel when they felt unsafe. Nothing had happened to them but they felt it might and so took precautions as any person with common sense would.

 

Unfortunately in Brazil, some foreign tourists have no background to make an accurate judgement. They feel uncomfortable if the exterior surroundings are rundown. Not neccessarily so, even if their "intuition", not trained to that type of situation, is alarmed. But some insist on walking around with valuables in plain sight, which they can easily be relieved of even in an upscale neighborhood. And they all want a definitive answer online that addresses both without taking on board anything about the culture.

[floridatravelersforlife]

If one or their property has been robbed, burgled or vandalized in some way, one views the possibilities different from those who have had the fortune of not been exposed to such assaults. We are the former. We always travel in plane clothes, jeans t shirts sandals no jewelry and a $1 watch from the dollar store. We leave the rolex and cameras on the ship.

 

When my DW and I were in BA, in our clandestine outfits, the gypsies ignored us and focused on the tourists who were wearing American themed logo t shirts like USA, NY Yankees logo, Harley, etc. In fact we were never harassed in B A even by the 10 years olds carrying infants.