Seniors! Beware if you have limited mobility or are in a wheelchair!

[Seafairer]

I must say, I completely agree with Cruisr, Nigella and Terry. I'm so sorry for your disappointment, but this sounds like a huge oversight on the travel agent's part, and he or she owes you an explanation.

 

Knowing your and your husband's physical needs and limitations, the TA should have checked this out very carefully and in detail before you booked, gotten a written response from Silversea, and clearly communicated the situation to you, so you could make an appropriate choice. If all of this wasn't done, it might be a good time to have an honest conversation with your TA.

 

As to Silversea's lack of personal assistance, I'm sure that liability is a factor. I know from having wheeled my mother around that it sometimes takes a certain amount of strength and experience, that a person can fall out of the chair, and certainly that pushing a chair on rough pavements on shore, not to mention rocky seas, is dangerous. It's not a simple matter of just helping out - Silversea can't take the chance of being responsible for an accident. And as already mentioned, their wheelchairs are indeed for emergencies and not for general use.

 

I'm not in the travel business and I don't work for Silversea either, but given your needs, how thoroughly did your travel agent check this out?

Edited May 19, 2015 by Seafairer

[cruisr]

Yes, especially since OP was born in 1968, according to her posted information. That sounds a bit young for "senior" status to me.

 

We were on the Spirit recently with many using mobility aids. We observed a very helpful crew in the public areas. Since there was no uniformity in the walkers, and various wheeled chairs I would guess each person provided their own. I actually suggested to a handicapped relative that they might enjoy a SS cruise!

 

I think she meant that she is 68 not that she was born in 68. I know I said I was moving on from this thread but I really am curious if OP will come back and enlighten us further.

[spinnaker2]

Yes waiting to know just what was expected or promised or said.

Hoping to understand and gain a complete perspective From OP.

[EXPEDITIONTRAVR317]

I must say, I completely agree with Cruisr, Nigella and Terry. I'm so sorry for your disappointment, but this sounds like a huge oversight on the travel agent's part, and he or she owes you an explanation.

 

Knowing your and your husband's physical needs and limitations, the TA should have checked this out very carefully and in detail before you booked, gotten a written response from Silversea, and clearly communicated the situation to you, so you could make an appropriate choice. If all of this wasn't done, it might be a good time to have an honest conversation with your TA.

 

As to Silversea's lack of personal assistance, I'm sure that liability is a factor. I know from having wheeled my mother around that it sometimes takes a certain amount of strength and experience, that a person can fall out of the chair, and certainly that pushing a chair on rough pavements on shore, not to mention rocky seas, is dangerous. It's not a simple matter of just helping out - Silversea can't take the chance of being responsible for an accident. And as already mentioned, their wheelchairs are indeed for emergencies and not for general use.

 

I'm not in the travel business and I don't work for Silversea either, but given your needs, how thoroughly did your travel agent check this out?

 

 

 

It is just mind blowing how someone (Louvre12) post’s a message of concern and awareness to the travel community and instead of people acknowledging the problem the community points the finger in different directions. I will have you all know that I am the Travel Agent who booked these wonderful clients. I will assure all that my team made every possible step to notify Silversea of their limited mobility before they boarded the ship. In fact, we notified Silversea as follows:

• Inventory Control, Lourdes Cabala confirming their accessible suite before deposit, confirmed on 3/27/14.

• Special Services, Jay (no last name listed) at the time of deposit and confirmed on 3/28/14.

• Special Services, Jay (no last name listed) notified regarding special needs and other request 9/25 and again on 1/9 and confirmed accommodations would be met.

• Sylvia Alonso onboard the Silversea Cloud 1/22 confirmed that they received the wheelchair we ordered (for them to use while on their trip) and they will have someone waiting to greet them to make sure their needs are taken care of.

Furthermore, on 2/2/2015 just a few days after Louvre12 boarded I had a colleague of mine who was onboard with a group went to check-up on Louvre12 to make sure they received their chair and were doing okay. I assured you this was not an issue with the Travel Agent but a Silversea issue that made Louvre12 experience not something they what have repeated to them or anyone else.

[Island Cruiser]

The limited mobility issue plagues all the luxury cruise lines IMO since luxury cruising is the last available travel option for folks facing mobillity challenges. We have had shore excusions shortened because one person out of thirty on the bus misjudged the level of activity required. And unpleasant exchanges regarding mobility issues occur quite often, too often IMO. I think this often happens because folks with mobility issues, who understandably want to take shore excursions too, read into the excursion descriptions what they want to see rather than what is literally there.

 

But I also always see folks with mobility issues cope beautifully and gracefully on luxury cruises. They are the folks who are realistic about their level of disability and plan accordingly. Some pay the freight to bring along a personal assistant. Or they politely declline to attempt challenging activities. They are a joy and an inspiration to be around.

[Seafairer]

Thank you for providing the additional background on this situation, ExpeditionTravr317. It sounds as if there was a real disconnect somewhere between what your clients experienced and the arrangements you in fact made - including taking the step to confirm that their wheelchair was actually onboard and ready for them to use. If Silversea agreed to all of your clients' needs, including special assistance for tours, do you have any idea what happened? Why the wheelchair wasn't provided upon boarding? Have they provided any explanation???

 

Thank you again for letting us all know of the previous arrangements you made on your clients' behalf.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Seafairer

[spinnaker2]

Expedition, thanks for providing more insight as to the events as described by Louvre. The initial post was confusing to me as I was not sure exactly what the issues were. I still am not certain, although I saw that Louvre was very upset and that you as the travel agent did try and alert Silversea, according to what you posted.

For clarification, were you under the impression that there was to be someone from Silversea to push the wheelchair?

Did you ever determine where the wheelchair was that you rented for your customers?

From the initial post, it seemed that Louvre went to guest services to help obtain a wheelchair when needed. It was not clear you had already rented one to be on board.

When Louvre spoke of the fact that not one person was assigned to help the handicapped or those with limited mobility, did that mean that they expected someone to be assigned to push them in the wheelchair?

I am trying to understand, because the first post was so very alarmist and started off with Seniors beware!

[RachelG]

I have cruised a lot on both Regent and Silversea, and as far as I was aware, if a person needs a wheelchair, they provide their own. Now if Silversea said that one was rented for the OP, it should have been there.

 

But that said, Silversea is not going to provide a staff person to push around a wheelchair on a regular basis. They might have someone assisting occasionally, but not regularly. I have never seen that happen in all my cruises.

 

And a ship is not like an airport where they do have special services personnel who do that sort of thing as their regular job. If someone had to be pushing a wheelchair frequently on the ship, they would have to be pulled from their regular duties.

[EXPEDITIONTRAVR317]

I have cruised a lot on both Regent and Silversea, and as far as I was aware, if a person needs a wheelchair, they provide their own. Now if Silversea said that one was rented for the OP, it should have been there.

 

But that said, Silversea is not going to provide a staff person to push around a wheelchair on a regular basis. They might have someone assisting occasionally, but not regularly. I have never seen that happen in all my cruises.

 

And a ship is not like an airport where they do have special services personnel who do that sort of thing as their regular job. If someone had to be pushing a wheelchair frequently on the ship, they would have to be pulled from their regular duties.

 

I don't think everyone is reading the thread and understanding what the message is. No one has asked for Silversea to have someone "dedicated" in "pushing" anyone around instead the fact that the assistance on the day of embarkation, disembarkation, helping the client board on and off the tours is common courtesy but I guess we don't see that either by the responses.

[RachelG]

I have never seen anyone being pushed to a bus in a wheelchair by the ship's staff--in over 150 days on board ships, mostly Regent or Silversea. To expect ship's staff to do this is just not reasonable. If you need to be pushed to the bus in a wheelchair, you need to bring someone to push you.

 

One of my very good cruising friends, now deceased was married to a lovely lady who is confined to a wheelchair. The staff would help them on/off the ship when needed but that is all. They didn't push her to the buses, nor would she have expected that.

[Silver Spectre]

I have never seen anyone being pushed to a bus in a wheelchair by the ship's staff--in over 150 days on board ships, mostly Regent or Silversea. To expect ship's staff to do this is just not reasonable. If you need to be pushed to the bus in a wheelchair, you need to bring someone to push you.

 

One of my very good cruising friends, now deceased was married to a lovely lady who is confined to a wheelchair. The staff would help them on/off the ship when needed but that is all. They didn't push her to the buses, nor would she have expected that.

 

I agree totally. The staff are there to make a guests experience as enjoyable as possible, but within the confines of their job descriptions. They are not employed to be care assistants, wheelchair pushers, baby watchers or personal slaves.

[MrsWaldo]

The OP clearly states someone "assigned to them". That to me says they expected for SS to have a person for them when they needed them.

 

I too have travelled with a partner with limited mobility and also in a wheelchair.

 

Pushing a chair is not easy and whilst I am relatively young and fit there were times that I just could not manage to push the chair due to hills etc. There is no way that you can just have someone assigned to you without paying for the privilege.

 

I am also going out on a Limb here but I am another who is disgruntled by people with mobility issues who think that people will be able to cater for their needs. I have had 2 very expensive ship tours ruined because someone did not feel the guideline applied to them. One was with SS the other Seabourn.

 

On the Seabourn trip we were whitewater rafting and 2 elderly gentleman decided they would come along despite not being up to the task, they fell walking along the river edge. They decided they would team up with us (we had 2 young and very fit adults) because "we can just sit back and float". At one point this attitude was almost life threatening when one of the seniors almost fell out of the boat because he wanted to do things his way. The booking sheet said vigorous activity, high level of fitness......

 

I wonder if the OP had the I want it now attitude rather than the we would like please.....

 

Expedition.... If your colleague had check up on them a few days in clearly there were issues.... As TA what Di you then do to address your clients issues??

[Seafairer]

RachelG and Silver Spectre, this has been my observation too, on both Crystal and many years on Silversea. I give those who are able to travel despite reliance on a wheelchair or cane an enormous amount of credit.

 

The confusing part of this is that Louvre's complaint said that she approached Guest Relations "to help us obtain a wheelchair when needed." The way it was written sounds like a spontaneous request for occasional use, not that one had already been rented for the full voyage, which of course is an entirely different matter.

 

Similarly, it wasn't clear that she only needed assistance getting on and off the ship. When she wrote that "my husband is handicapped, too, and he cannot push me" and "Not one person was assigned to help the handicapped or those with limited mobility," I, too, read it as a need and expectation for general, ongoing assistance onboard.

 

As we now know, thanks to Expeditiontravr317's explanation, the wheelchair was arranged for and rented ahead of time, and the need for personal assistance was more limited. I hope Louvre understands that we responded to what she appeared to be saying and that she bears us no further ill will.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Seafairer

[Nigella]

I agree totally. The staff are there to make a guests experience as enjoyable as possible, but within the confines of their job descriptions. They are not employed to be care assistants, wheelchair pushers, baby watchers or personal slaves.

 

Agree. Although some guests do seem to forget the 'not personal slaves' part.

 

Plus, Spinnaker made some good points, and I'm actually more confused now, reading the TA's account of this, than I was initially. There are some points that conflict with the OP's story.

 

Did the OP contact the TA during the cruise to ask for assistance and/or clarification on what had been arranged?

 

This really is one of those times when I wish SS posted officially on this board as I'd like to hear their side of this.

 

Edited to add - on reading again I see that there was a colleague already onboard who was known to the TA who "went to check-up on Louvre12 to make sure they received their chair and were doing okay."

So what was the outcome of this?

 

I'd like to know if Louvre 12 asked for this person by name when they went to Guest Services initially, since they had already 'confirmed' arrangements and were onboard the Cloud ? "Sylvia Alonso onboard the Silversea Cloud 1/22 confirmed that they received the wheelchair we ordered (for them to use while on their trip) and they will have someone waiting to greet them to make sure their needs are taken care of. "

 

Also, pax was onboard in January. Only just decided to post on CC about this. :confused:

Edited May 20, 2015 by Nigella

[spinnaker2]

I don't want to stir the pot, but I have always seen assistance offered in getting on and off the tour bus, as well I have seen the front seat of the bus reserved by name, for certain pax with mobility issues.

[Louvre12]

It is just mind blowing how someone (Louvre12) post’s a message of concern and awareness to the travel community and instead of people acknowledging the problem the community points the finger in different directions. I will have you all know that I am the Travel Agent who booked these wonderful clients. I will assure all that my team made every possible step to notify Silversea of their limited mobility before they boarded the ship. In fact, we notified Silversea as follows:

• Inventory Control, Lourdes Cabala confirming their accessible suite before deposit, confirmed on 3/27/14.

• Special Services, Jay (no last name listed) at the time of deposit and confirmed on 3/28/14.

• Special Services, Jay (no last name listed) notified regarding special needs and other request 9/25 and again on 1/9 and confirmed accommodations would be met.

• Sylvia Alonso onboard the Silversea Cloud 1/22 confirmed that they received the wheelchair we ordered (for them to use while on their trip) and they will have someone waiting to greet them to make sure their needs are taken care of.

Furthermore, on 2/2/2015 just a few days after Louvre12 boarded I had a colleague of mine who was onboard with a group went to check-up on Louvre12 to make sure they received their chair and were doing okay. I assured you this was not an issue with the Travel Agent but a Silversea issue that made Louvre12 experience not something they what have repeated to them or anyone else.

Louvre 12's travel agent.

[Nigella]

Louvre 12's travel agent.

 

OP.

Have you taken this up with Silversea? Your cruise was several months ago, and by now I really think that you should have taken your issues up direct with them.

I'm not sure what you want this board to do about it? Or are you simply venting about Silversea?

[2little time]

We DID tell them of our needs. Our agent did so. They lacked empathy and you do too! We said in our comment we tipped heavily---my husband is handicapped too so he could not push me. You are wrong about this. You must work for Silversea or are a travel agent.

 

Expedition, it seems OP does not think highly of TA's either.....

[spinnaker2]

Ok what would poirot say ?

Do the clues and the puzzle pieces once put together pass the smell test?

I guess we will all have to form our own opinions based on the evidence presented.

however none of us can discount what Louvre felt from the interaction which was troubling and alarming for them.

I hope they can heal from their perceptions of the experience.

[Louvre12]

The travel community needs to be aware what "goes on" when cruising—wonder how many people have had similar experiences---maybe they are afraid to talk about it---they will get the same "circle the wagons" treatment as is happening now.

My posting was done to bring awareness, not to vent or to produce ill will. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." P.S. My opinion of my travel agent is of the highest degree---but, I know, not all travel agents are created equal.

[fizzy]

It's unfortunate that your expectations were not met, but I still can't figure out who led you to believe that there would be personal attendants? I suppose there may be crew who would sign on for private duty in their off time for hire...like they do for childcare....but without having prearranged some sort of service it seems unlikely that there would be crew available for anything more than helping with embarkation and disembarkation. We also had a Regent tour spoiled by someone who needed/demanded so much extra help that everyone else was affected. Clearly your travel agent might have suggested an extra cabin for helpers if they realized the extent of the aid needed. The large tips part of the story was disconcerting. This seems to be a growing issue on all cruiselines. Sincerely, did someone lead you to believe that there would be quite a lot of assistance, and if so ,who?

[Tothesunset]

The travel community needs to be aware what "goes on" when cruising—wonder how many people have had similar experiences---maybe they are afraid to talk about it---they will get the same "circle the wagons" treatment as is happening now.

 

What an odd thing to say. There is no great courage required to post on an anonymous Internet forum. You only need look at all the other whinge threads to see that.

 

While you seem to feel the need for a minor crusade here, would it not have been appropriate to voice your concerns to SS? Or if you have, to attach their response?

 

Finally, what are you really trying to achieve? Posting a somewhat incomplete and occasionally contradictory series of posts in collusion with another poster is always going to meet resistance on a board largely contributed to by happy, regular customers of the Line.

[Emtbsam]

And the front seat has been claimed by those purporting to have mobility issues. Sorry - but that's not right. As an EMT who volunteers to help those people with health issues, I am sensitive to the needs of people who genuinely have an issue...

[MrsWaldo]

I have spent much of today agonising over this thread…

 

I appreciate it is challenging to travel with mobility issues but then again as a member of society we are supposed to understand and accept a way to deal with our place in the chain. (Darwinism)

 

I know we don't have to be darwinistic to the full, BUT, at what point do we say X traveller is worth more than Y. (OK economics may say if I (x) throw a few bucks around i get better but what if y throws more bucks than me?)

 

I was quite offended by the seniors beware…. mobility (not only seniors have mobility issues)

 

IME with PAX with mobility issues, the majority of lux cruise lines (and top quality accom) do their best to deal and accommodate the needs of individuals and this was certainly the case for Mr W, but there is a limit to what they can provide based on the staffing, number of pax with mobility needs, pre planning of the pax (i.e. did you inform them 20 minutes ahead that you may need assistance at 10am)

 

Sometimes all of us (mobility impaired, martian or normal) need to realise that what we want may not be able to happen now, despite the best effort of everyone

[Tothesunset]

Does anyone else wonder why, if SS is so poor at managing the needs of the disabled, that this thread has not become a litany of complaint and outrage by similarly affected cruisers? Clearly, people tend not to hold back (especially when you consider the number of whinge threads about things that simply don't matter anyway) yet no other complaints. Mmmmm...