Non Grills passengers.

[Dorset Cruiser]

I find that the layout of QM2 is considerably less rational and pleasant, compared to its two smaller siblings. This is particularly true for the positioning of the two grills (surrounded by a high-traffic passenger deck), but also Todd English (that has passengers walk across it occasionally) and the Commodore Club (at the end of a interminable corridor of passenger cabins.

 

Also, the larger complement of Grill passengers on QM2 necessitates larger restaurants and lounge, that somewhat lack intimacy, compared to their equivalent spaces on QV/QE.

 

This being said, this is no reason not to travel in Grill Class on QM2, naturally. Just that the experience is even better on QV/QE.

 

Have to say that on our first QM2 TA in last week of June, we were totally confused with the layout of the ship, especially the semi deck down to Queens Room and also getting through Connexions to Illuminations/Planetarium. We had just about got our heads around the layout when we docked in Southampton 😄

 

I would have been most disappointed if I had booked Princess or Queens Grill as their select restaurants just 'appear' to be an extension of Kings Court - I now know that they have a much more varied menu. As for Todd English and foot traffic out to deck 8, there needs to be explanatory signage that access should be by the stairs on deck 7, rather than following the deck 8 signs to the aft of the ship which leads you to Todd English. The M.D' did allow us to walk through and it was not busy on that first occasion, but we felt most awkward and after that went via deck 7.

 

One other thing that irked was that on the first formal night, we decided not to participate and knew that we were limited to Kings Court and the Winter Garden as we were not 'dressed' in formal clothes, but when the entertainment started in the Winter Garden, a lot of the prime seating was occupied by people in formal dress. We understood that we could not attend the entertainment in the lounges and theatre and were okay with this and the entertainment in the Winter Garden was the only place we could go. To a lesser degree, it seemed very strange that there were so many people dining in Kings Court in full formalwear.

 

 

 

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[Austcruiser84]

Have to say that on our first QM2 TA in last week of June, we were totally confused with the layout of the ship, especially the semi deck down to Queens Room and also getting through Connexions to Illuminations/Planetarium. We had just about got our heads around the layout when we docked in Southampton 😄

 

I would have been most disappointed if I had booked Princess or Queens Grill as their select restaurants just 'appear' to be an extension of Kings Court - I now know that they have a much more varied menu. As for Todd English and foot traffic out to deck 8, there needs to be explanatory signage that access should be by the stairs on deck 7, rather than following the deck 8 signs to the aft of the ship which leads you to Todd English. The M.D' did allow us to walk through and it was not busy on that first occasion, but we felt most awkward and after that went via deck 7.

 

One other thing that irked was that on the first formal night, we decided not to participate and knew that we were limited to Kings Court and the Winter Garden as we were not 'dressed' in formal clothes, but when the entertainment started in the Winter Garden, a lot of the prime seating was occupied by people in formal dress. We understood that we could not attend the entertainment in the lounges and theatre and were okay with this and the entertainment in the Winter Garden was the only place we could go. To a lesser degree, it seemed very strange that there were so many people dining in Kings Court in full formalwear.

 

 

 

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The ship is a bit of a rabbit's warren, but so too I imagine were the old school liners. QM2 is different to QE and QV in that she is a unique vessel and not a cookie cutter cruise liner. While passing through Connexions and the Deck 3L area at the stern is somewhat confusing, I do like the fact Mary is one of a kind.

 

There is, however, a lot of underused space on board. The Atlantic Room seems to be used only for the occasional bridge game, the history of Cunard space at the bow around the theatre seems wasteful, and the winter garden has almost always been empty whenever I've walked past. The top deck is also underused - perhaps an additional public room could be added on top? Something outdoorsy for warmer weather climate would be nice.

 

I couldn't agree more that the Grills restaurants are in an awkward area. I'm really not sure why they were ultimately placed here. Has the ship's designer ever explained this? But the QG restaurant is quite beautiful and I like the splashes of red throughout. Can't say the same for PG - it's like a desert of beige in there (that was my designated muster station last time).

 

I noticed a lot of people in formal wear dining in Kings Court. However, it tends to be second dinner or snacks - many still eat in the restaurant. I came across some cruisers who ate room service breakfast before going to the MDR for a proper breakfast. I have yet to come across a decent buffet on a cruise ship - no idea why they are so popular!

[BlueRiband]

A couple of comments to address the points made in the above two posts.

 

Dorset Cruiser, you are right in that the QM2 Winter Garden is supposed to be an alternative entertainment venue for those who prefer not to dress formal. Others too have noticed this awkward mixing of "classes" on formal nights. Those who dressed casually and used the buffet feel that "their" space is invaded by those in formal wear who have the entire ship open to them. I don't know what the answer to this should be.

 

The Winter Garden is indeed very underused and has activity for Champagne Afternoon Tea and the smaller captain's cocktail parties. I believe this is due to its far distance from the open buffet stations and bars that provide a better ocean view like the Commodore Club and Chart Room.

 

Outdoor venues don't work really well in the North Atlantic. On warm pleasant days the Boardwalk Cafe is open and chairs and umbrellas are brought out on deck 13. But under most conditions while underway outdoor furniture would be blown away.

 

Austcruiser84, if you are interested the front page of this forum has a sticky thread where Stephen Payne's 2013 Q&A is archived. He addressed several topics including location of the Grill restaurants. In a nutshell, the restaurants had to be on deck 7 due to its higher deck height and near the aft end where the galleys are close to food stores. Special elevators connect the Grills Galley with the stores below. He mentioned that if he had to do it again he would take another look at it but felt that they were working well where they are.

 

One of these whimsical "what would you change" threads had somebody suggest that the Grills restaurants be extended to the aft end of deck 7. QM2's complete wrap around teak promenade deck is a treasure.. Personally I thought that was a horrible idea to cut off circulation for a restaurant.

Edited July 4, 2015 by BlueRiband

[Dorset Cruiser]

The ship is a bit of a rabbit's warren, but so too I imagine were the old school liners. QM2 is different to QE and QV in that she is a unique vessel and not a cookie cutter cruise liner. While passing through Connexions and the Deck 3L area at the stern is somewhat confusing, I do like the fact Mary is one of a kind.

 

There is, however, a lot of underused space on board. The Atlantic Room seems to be used only for the occasional bridge game, the history of Cunard space at the bow around the theatre seems wasteful, and the winter garden has almost always been empty whenever I've walked past. The top deck is also underused - perhaps an additional public room could be added on top? Something outdoorsy for warmer weather climate would be nice.

 

I couldn't agree more that the Grills restaurants are in an awkward area. I'm really not sure why they were ultimately placed here. Has the ship's designer ever explained this? But the QG restaurant is quite beautiful and I like the splashes of red throughout. Can't say the same for PG - it's like a desert of beige in there (that was my designated muster station last time).

 

I noticed a lot of people in formal wear dining in Kings Court. However, it tends to be second dinner or snacks - many still eat in the restaurant. I came across some cruisers who ate room service breakfast before going to the MDR for a proper breakfast. I have yet to come across a decent buffet on a cruise ship - no idea why they are so popular!

 

We liked Kings Court for breakfast and afternoon tea, not so much for the one dinner we had there. Food was of a good quality for breakfast especially but not much on offer for dinner without searching around.

 

 

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[Dorset Cruiser]

A couple of comments to address the points made in the above two posts.

 

Dorset Cruiser, you are right in that the QM2 Winter Garden is supposed to be an alternative entertainment venue for those who prefer not to dress formal. Others too have noticed this awkward mixing of "classes" on formal nights. Those who dressed casually and used the buffet feel that "their" space is invaded by those in formal wear who have the entire ship open to them. I don't know what the answer to this should be.

 

The Winter Garden is indeed very underused and has activity for Champagne Afternoon Tea and the smaller captain's cocktail parties. I believe this is due to its far distance from the open buffet stations and bars that provide a better ocean view like the Commodore Club and Chart Room.

 

Outdoor venues don't work really well in the North Atlantic. On warm pleasant days the Boardwalk Cafe is open and chairs and umbrellas are brought out on deck 13. But under most conditions while underway outdoor furniture would be blown away.

 

Austcruiser84, if you are interested the front page of this forum has a sticky thread where Stephen Payne's 2013 Q&A is archived. He addressed several topics including location of the Grill restaurants. In a nutshell, the restaurants had to be on deck 7 due to its higher deck height and near the aft end where the galleys are close to food stores. Special elevators connect the Grills Galley with the stores below. He mentioned that if he had to do it again he would take another look at it but felt that they were working well where they are.

 

Perhaps the answer should be that those in formalwear should avoid Kings Court and Winter Garden on formal nights in consideration of those who are dressed casually 😉

 

 

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[BlueRiband]

That's a good one! You have a point - passengers have been told it's OK to be casual in the Winter Garden yet they are being double crossed by those showing up in formal attire.

[david,Mississauga]

... As for Todd English and foot traffic out to deck 8, there needs to be explanatory signage that access should be by the stairs on deck 7, rather than following the deck 8 signs to the aft of the ship which leads you to Todd English. The M.D' did allow us to walk through and it was not busy on that first occasion, but we felt most awkward and after that went via deck 7.

 

...

 

The exact wording escapes me, but last year there were signs at both the inside and outside entrance to Todd English asking others to show respect to those dining by using alternate access. Those dining adjacent to windows were treated to the constant view of smokers and there was a frequent parade of casually dressed people cutting through the room in both directions. This was not the experience one would expect in an upscale restaurant on a formal night. Our dinner was a gift from our TA; I would have been more annoyed had we paid for it.

[Normandie_Nostalgic]

One of these whimsical "what would you change" threads had somebody suggest that the Grills restaurants be extended to the aft end of deck 7. QM2's complete wrap around teak promenade deck is a treasure.. Personally I thought that was a horrible idea to cut off circulation for a restaurant.

 

The real issue is indeed that most idiosyncrasies of the QM2 design are 'hard-coded' in the structure of the ship. There is not much that could be altered without a complete reconstruction, and even then, it would imply drastic choices and potentially having to give up other features.

 

The venerable QE2 proved to be an exceptionally adaptable ship. Spectacular alterations were made possible, and that adaptability allowed the ship to serve for 40 years. It is not sure at all that QM2 will do the same. She was built for a top speed that has become uneconomical, and all that power and strength is somewhat wasted for leisurely crossings at 21 knots, while the obvious trade-offs in terms of layout still have to be endured.

 

If indeed Cunard goes to regular TA’s with the ‘cruising’ Queens, as they are said to consider doing, the disadvantages of QM2 will become more apparent, while the smaller, better laid-out and more recent ships might prove that they do not need to be ocean liners to do the job well, and even better in some ways.

[Austcruiser84]

Good points regarding the structure of the ship necessitating the locations of particular rooms and venues. I also agree with keeping the wrap around promenade - hate new ships that have done away with this feature.

 

Another thing that annoys me about the structure of the ship is locating QG suites right above lifeboats. Being big and orange these would certainly spoil the view when sitting down or standing, surely? My only Grills experience was in a Q1 so I had a nice stern facing super balcony.

 

Chances are I'm destined to a normal QG balcony this coming voyage (like lightning, the upgrade fairy surely never strikes the same way twice) and I'm dreading looking at the lifeboats. Granted, on a winter TA I probably won't use the balcony too much, but that isnt really the point.

 

On the issue of lifeboats, I'm still surprised the obstructed balconies were built. I would have thought it would be nicer to build larger obstructed ocean views or deluxe inside cabins in such a space. I can't imagine too many people keenly book one of these balconies?

 

I only pick because I love QM2 so much :-)

[Pegase90]

Taking our first ever cruise on 1st August, and we're very excited to be travelling QG PH on QV (see - getting the hang of the jargon).

 

But we have a problem.

 

 

We have friends on the same cruise who will not be dining at the top of the ship, and who are worried they will be bombarded with breakfast pastries as this is a practice they have read about elsewhere on the Cunard forum.

 

Is this mandatory? We quite like the sound of it, as it seems a good way to break the ice with our new friends in QG. Should we a: throw the pastries but meet our friends afterwards for drinks in the Commodore Club or b: throw the pastries and stay with our new friends on the Upper Terrace, or c: ask our butler to throw the pastries?

 

 

 

Please advise - we don't want to lose our old friends, but feel the need to raise our game socially.

 

See you all on the 1st :)

[Dorset Cruiser]

The exact wording escapes me, but last year there were signs at both the inside and outside entrance to Todd English asking others to show respect to those dining by using alternate access. Those dining adjacent to windows were treated to the constant view of smokers and there was a frequent parade of casually dressed people cutting through the room in both directions. This was not the experience one would expect in an upscale restaurant on a formal night. Our dinner was a gift from our TA; I would have been more annoyed had we paid for it.

 

We walked down the port deck 8 corridor towards aft and finally came to a door which, when we opened it, obviously went to a staff area, so we had to turn towards Todd English. Saw no such signs as you describe. Asked MD and he told us we should access deck 8 aft via stairs from deck 7 aft which we did on future occasions. By the way we did not really appreciate formally dressed passengers passing through Kings Court and Winter Garden on a formal evening when we were in casual dress - surely works both ways 😉

 

 

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[BlueRiband]

Payne was asked if QM2 will undergo the type of changes that QE2 experienced during her service life. He said that she is maxed out from the start as her construction costs had to be justified. For ever one of weight above the waterline there needs to be two tons below. There is not much more that can be added as she must be able to enter the Elba River for Hamburg.

 

QE2's aluminum superstructure was becoming a money pit for Carnival. QM2 is built entirely of steel for a 40 year service life, and her designer believes she will indeed serve that long.

 

As for QG on deck 9, Payne wrote that there was much heated discussion on whether to put QG on 9, 10, or 11. It was ultimately decided to put them on 9 so as to be closer to the restaurants.

 

As for the obstructed view deck 8 cabins - these can be sold for a higher price than an ocean view. There is still the extra space and outdoor air that an OV doesn't provide.

 

On deck 7, the port side is the only interior walkway that runs the length of the ship. I don't see any way Cunard can keep anybody from walking through. Now Todd English is a problem despite easy access to 8 deck on the starboard side. Unless the outside door is locked, and somebody is on sentry duty in front, those raised by wolves will continue to cut through.

 

Longer crossings are one topic where I find myself in total vehement disagreement with many posters here. So many say they like the longer crossings just to be on the ship longer. Those of us who would like to see a return to 6 day crossings are admonished, "Take a plane if you are in that much of a hurry!" As I see it even the 7 day crossings may go because too many frugal travelers are unwilling or unable to pay for that.

 

By the public acceptance of longer and longer crossings - by voting with their wallets - TAs will be handled nicely by QE and QV. There will be no need to have QM2's reserve power if the Baby Queens can take 11 days to make it. So I see the very people who ask for lower fares and longer crossings as unintentionally contributing to QM2's irrelevance and demise.

Edited July 4, 2015 by BlueRiband

[laktex]

 

Another thing that annoys me about the structure of the ship is locating QG suites right above lifeboats. Being big and orange these would certainly spoil the view when sitting down or standing, surely?

 

I only pick because I love QM2 so much :-)

 

9001 to 9006 & 10005/10006, despite being forward, do miss the lifeboats.

[Normandie_Nostalgic]

By the public acceptance of longer and longer crossings - by voting with their wallets - TAs will be handled nicely by QE and QV. There will be no need to have QM2's reserve power if the Baby Queens can take 11 days to make it. So I see the very people who ask for lower fares and longer crossings as unintentionally contributing to QM2's irrelevance and demise.

 

Exactly. QM2 is only truly relevant for the role she was designed for: the New York line.If the very concept of a New York line goes away because people are not so bothered about primarily crossing from one side of the Atlantic to the other, then QM2 is not needed anymore. She is a rather inadequate cruise ship, with an awkward layout and much wasted internal space. QE and QV can do the job, and if they are too busy to do it in addition to their own very successful cruising and World Tour careers, then Cunard might be better served with a third Vista ship.

 

This is not a new occurence. Cunard faced a similar dilemma in the 60's as the aging Queens were increasingly made irrelevant by the constantly lower number of TA passengers, and the inadequacy for cruising of the two transatlantic behemoths was made apparent. Queen Elizabeth was extensively refitted for cruising, but that did not catch, and both ships were withdrawn. Naturally QM2 is only 10 years old. The shareholders will want to keep her paying for the mountain of capital that she consumed for her building for many more years, but this time, Cunard is not facing the competition of the plane, but of her own two excellent cruise ships, which can cannibalise QM2's business.

[david,Mississauga]

We walked down the port deck 8 corridor towards aft and finally came to a door which, when we opened it, obviously went to a staff area, so we had to turn towards Todd English. Saw no such signs as you describe. Asked MD and he told us we should access deck 8 aft via stairs from deck 7 aft which we did on future occasions. By the way we did not really appreciate formally dressed passengers passing through Kings Court and Winter Garden on a formal evening when we were in casual dress - surely works both ways 😉

 

It isn't the same thing. Cunard's informations states: "The dress code applies to all areas of the ship after 6.00pm each evening" then the exception is given for "passengers wishing to dress more casually... " I do not eat in Kings Court (except for the embarkation lunch when travelling in non-Grills) but if the string quartet was playing in the Winter Garden on a formal night I would not hesitate to attend in my DJ. The rules make it clear people who follow the dress code are welcome everywhere. It reminds me of the 1970s crossings in the QE2. The daily Tourist Class programme had a notation that we were "earnestly requested to stay out of all areas marked First Class." Those travelling in First Class could go to a bar or event in Tourist if they wished. In fact it was a cliché at one time that First Class passengers often preferred the bars in Tourist. When I travelled First Class for the first time I did not subscribe to that notion.;)

 

When we have travelled in the Grills we are, of course, able to have drinks or take tea in the Queen's Grill Lounge. Grills passengers are not confined to that space, however, and we often had a drink in other lounges and actually preferred afternoon tea in the Queen's Room especially when the string quartet or harpist were playing.

 

My objection to people tramping through Todd English was not simply because they were casually dressed. It was a cool rainy night last June and the frequent opening of the outside door brought in a blast of cold air. This was actually welcome - by us anyway - because it helped rid the air of the stench of tobacco smoke that accompanied those entering the restaurant contrary to the notice at the door.

[SALAD MUNCHER]

I agree, Cunard have a dress code which is clear and known prior to booking, if you don't want to adhere to it don't complain if those who do want to sit and relax anywhere on the ship! Why book if you don't like the 'formality' - go on a different ship!! It is really annoying that the few who want to 'change' Cunard seem to think they should be given priority when eating their food in casual dress and that the majority of Cunard passengers who do respect the dress code should actually give them 'consideration'. As I have already stated, if you don't like the 'rules' go elsewhere and leave us (the majority) to enjoy our time whilst cruising on Cunard. ...

[foster269]

Hear Hear and well said salad muncher.Tonight is the 175 Ball on QM2.I wish my wife and I were there.Dinner suit and all.In the main dining room obviously.

Rodger.

Edited July 5, 2015 by foster269

[BlueRiband]

Exactly. QM2 is only truly relevant for the role she was designed for: the New York line.If the very concept of a New York line goes away because people are not so bothered about primarily crossing from one side of the Atlantic to the other, then QM2 is not needed anymore. She is a rather inadequate cruise ship, with an awkward layout and much wasted internal space. QE and QV can do the job, and if they are too busy to do it in addition to their own very successful cruising and World Tour careers, then Cunard might be better served with a third Vista ship.

 

This is not a new occurence. Cunard faced a similar dilemma in the 60's as the aging Queens were increasingly made irrelevant by the constantly lower number of TA passengers, and the inadequacy for cruising of the two transatlantic behemoths was made apparent. Queen Elizabeth was extensively refitted for cruising, but that did not catch, and both ships were withdrawn. Naturally QM2 is only 10 years old. The shareholders will want to keep her paying for the mountain of capital that she consumed for her building for many more years, but this time, Cunard is not facing the competition of the plane, but of her own two excellent cruise ships, which can cannibalize QM2's business.

 

QM2, when used as a warm weather cruise ship, cannot compete with the private cabanas and outdoor ammenities common on the floating condos. Those of us who love her dearly will sail with her anywhere but the general public today has different expectations. Ironically in the old liner days one would reserve a deck chair for their exclusive use. QM2's are open to all but now people want to reserve their own private place at the pool.

 

The Baby Queens each have their own following and some here much prefer the Grills ammenities on these ships. Yes, if longer crossing grow in popularity then you might see a third Vista ship sharing TA duty with QM2. But they would both be on the longer schedule to accommodate the Vista's 17 knot max. So QM2 in a perverse sense suffers from her own popularity. Passengers want to stay on her longer thus her speed and ocean liner breeding - the very things that make her special - will no longer have economic relevance.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Include me as being rude. Why sail Cunard if somebody really doesn't want the Cunard atmosphere and experience? But since you stated you won't be sailing on Cunard again at this point it's now a theoretical issue for you.

 

I hope you find a line that is more suitable for your preferred vacation style and wish you enjoyable voyages with them.

 

Perhaps I should have said 'might' not. If an itinerary on any Cunard ship comes up that we like, at a price that we like, then we have every intention of sailing Cunard and dressing in any way that we want 😄

 

 

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[Dorset Cruiser]

Include me as being rude. Why sail Cunard if somebody really doesn't want the Cunard atmosphere and experience? But since you stated you won't be sailing on Cunard again at this point it's now a theoretical issue for you.

 

I hope you find a line that is more suitable for your preferred vacation style and wish you enjoyable voyages with them.

 

Cunard is NOT just dressing up as you all seem to imply. Cunard is much more than that. We love cruising - it is our holiday of choice. QM2 is a beautiful ship, with great food and interesting things to do which kept us occupied throughout our 7 days. This was our 33rd cruise and, in fact, the one formal night I have been referring to was the first formal night on any cruise that we have not dressed up, the reason being because my husbands dinner suit had failed to come back from the laundry in time. The 'Cunard' atmosphere is really no different to the atmosphere on Princess or P&O 😄

 

 

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[commodoredave]

Sorry Dorset. While the poster responding to you could have been more diplomatic, the bottom line is the same. The majority of cruise lines out there no longer have or enforce a formal dress code. It is well known that Cunard is one of the few that does enforce a formal dress code, and it is one of the reasons why many of us lover her ships and the experience so much. People who don't want to partake in the formal dress code aboard Cunard should not complain about those who do, regardless of where we may go during the evening.

[commodoredave]

The 'Cunard' atmosphere is really no different to the atmosphere on Princess or P&O

 

 

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I must disagree with you again. The moment I board a Cunard ship I can sense an immediate difference from mass market lines like Princess. It's not that I don't like Princess - I've taken many cruises with her. But Cunard's ships are much more sophisticated, and the atmosphere more regal. If you can't tell the difference, you are wasting your money.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Sorry Dorset. While the poster responding to you could have been more diplomatic, the bottom line is the same. The majority of cruise lines out there no longer have or enforce a formal dress code. It is well known that Cunard is one of the few that does enforce a formal dress code, and it is one of the reasons why many of us lover her ships and the experience so much. People who don't want to partake in the formal dress code aboard Cunard should not complain about those who do, regardless of where we may go during the evening.

 

P&O certainly enforces the dress code. Whatever, we have abided by the dress codes on all the ships we have sailed that had dress codes - I exclude NCL and Ocean Village as they were casual cruise lines with no formal evenings - our exception was the first formal night on QM2 when we could not dress formally.

 

Whatever, no more words from me about dress codes and Cunard except to ask a question which we were puzzling over on QM2. We saw a lot of men looking very smart in white tuxedos. We had thought that white should only be worn in the Tropics and the Atlantic Ocean is definitely not Tropical. Were those men wrong or right to wear white tuxedos

 

 

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[Dorset Cruiser]

I must disagree with you again. The moment I board a Cunard ship I can sense an immediate difference from mass market lines like Princess. It's not that I don't like Princess - I've taken many cruises with her. But Cunard's ships are much more sophisticated, and the atmosphere more regal. If you can't tell the difference, you are wasting your money.

 

The atmosphere on QM2 was far from regal. It was a good cruise experience on a very nice ship but no different to any other 4-5 star cruiseline. The passenger demographics in Britannia class are very much the same as on P&O. Cannot comment on the Grills.

 

Please don't worry about me wasting my money as I paid very little for the cruise - far less than I would have paid for a balcony cabin on Princess, P&O or even Fred Olsen 😄

[commodoredave]

The atmosphere on QM2 was far from regal. It was a good cruise experience on a very nice ship but no different to any other 4-5 star cruiseline. The passenger demographics in Britannia class are very much the same as on P&O. Cannot comment on the Grills.

 

Please don't worry about me wasting my money as I paid very little for the cruise - far less than I would have paid for a balcony cabin on Princess, P&O or even Fred Olsen

 

Ahh, you know how to find a bargain! I like that. But we will have to agree to disagree on the passenger demographics and atmosphere. I can tell the difference between Princess and Cunard with a blindfold on!!