Unintended consequences of going a la carte

[NLH Arizona]

[quote name='maywell']What set cover price without the dining package? The dining package IS the cover charge, if you don't buy it - You're pretty much paying as if at regular land restaurant (a la carte). In other words - a person has to decide how many days to buy the dining package or put aside a set amount of money for the a la carte pricing. Unfortunately, its a budgeting thing that some passengers have to decide and plan, if they don't want to spend too much....[/QUOTE]Someone posted that NCL said there would still be the set price (like it is now), in addition to the a la carte pricing, it wasn't something I said. I just said, I didn't think it would make sense, because they will have the a la carte pricing and the dining package.

[LMaxwell]

[quote name='Sand and Seas']If your prediction comes true, that might be the time to stop cruising for me:([/QUOTE]

That will be the end for me as well. I like to know that once my fare is paid for that sit down dining with service is included. Once they go to buffet only I'm out. Someone else can pay "service charges" to get their own food 3 meals a day.

[maywell]

[quote name='NLH Arizona']Someone posted that NCL said there would still be the set price (like it is now), in addition to the a la carte pricing, it wasn't something I said. I just said, I didn't think it would make sense, because they will have the a la carte pricing and the dining package.[/QUOTE]

The only 2 restaurants that still going to have set prices because of their setup and/or how do you a la carte them is Teppanaki and Moderno. I think that what the confusion is because it technically only 3 restaurants (La Cucina / Italian, Le Bistro and Cagney's) on all the ships that's going a la carte while 2 of them are staying the same. Then there's the matter of Ocean Blue on Breakaway / Getaway and all the new paid restaurants on Escape, which is a separate discussion with the dining package T&C - and truth be told, rather not touch that right now til the dust settles...:( (Believe it or not, that's the headache, not the new premium items at those 3 restaurants)

[maywell]

[quote name='LMaxwell']That will be the end for me as well. I like to know that once my fare is paid for that sit down dining with service is included. Once they go to buffet only I'm out. Someone else can pay "service charges" to get their own food 3 meals a day.[/QUOTE]

What do you think the DSC is for the MDR? You thought the service in the MDR was free?!?!

[NLH Arizona]

[quote name='maywell']The only 2 restaurants that still going to have set prices because of their setup and/or how do you a la carte them is Teppanaki and Moderno. I think that what the confusion is because it technically only 3 restaurants (La Cucina / Italian, Le Bistro and Cagney's) on all the ships that's going a la carte while 2 of them are staying the same. Then there's the matter of Ocean Blue on Breakaway / Getaway and all the new paid restaurants on Escape, which is a separate discussion with the dining package T&C - and truth be told, rather not touch that right now til the dust settles...:( (Believe it or not, that's the headache, not the new premium items at those 3 restaurants)[/QUOTE]I was responding to this post. Apparently NCL told folks at an event that there would still be a single cover charge for specialty restaurants that are going a la carte, something I don't think made sense.

Originally Posted by xxxyyz View Post
[I]So, I attended a Norwegian sales event at an Expedia Cruise travel agency the other day. I mentioned to the NCL rep that I was disappointed in the new a la carte policy. She claims that the option will remain for a single cover charge for the specialty restaurants but now it will be possible for fellow cruisers to join you for an app or dessert at an a la carte price. Anyone heard this?[/I]

.

[maywell]

[quote name='NLH Arizona']I was responding to this post. Apparently NCL told folks at an event that there would still be a single cover charge for specialty restaurants that are going a la carte, something I don't think made sense.

Originally Posted by xxxyyz View Post
[I]So, I attended a Norwegian sales event at an Expedia Cruise travel agency the other day. I mentioned to the NCL rep that I was disappointed in the new a la carte policy. She claims that the option will remain for a single cover charge for the specialty restaurants but now it will be possible for fellow cruisers to join you for an app or dessert at an a la carte price. Anyone heard this?[/I]

.[/QUOTE]

Isn't the single cover charge, the dining package (UDP/SDP)? Oh well, I guess we're all find out later this month or in October when the Escape sails, how'll that works.

[NLH Arizona]

[quote name='maywell']Isn't the single cover charge, the dining package (UDP/SDP)? Oh well, I guess we're all find out later this month or in October when the Escape sails, how'll that works.[/QUOTE]Well, that is a question that you will have to ask the NCL representative who made the statement.

[rochelle_s]

[quote name='xxxyyz']So, I attended a Norwegian sales event at an Expedia Cruise travel agency the other day. I mentioned to the NCL rep that I was disappointed in the new a la carte policy. She claims that the option will remain for a single cover charge for the specialty restaurants but now it will be possible for fellow cruisers to join you for an app or dessert at an a la carte price. Anyone heard this?[/QUOTE]

I know you are just relaying information that you were told but I think the accuracy of it might be questionable. If this were indeed the case, that would mean NCL added a la carte dining just to save some people money. The cruise line is in the business to make money. A la carte dining is either a change that will [B]make[/B] the cruise line more money or[B] save [/B]it more money. Either way it is all about the bottom line for the cruise line. They might like to have the marketing department try and put a nice twist on their reasoning for its introduction but what it boils down to is PROFITS.


Rochelle

[Kaboochi]

Cruising is supposed to be a no brainer, pack, get on the ship, unpack and relax. NCL is making cruising complicated and after my next cruise I may rethink what my favorite cruise is. I believe they have made an error rethinking the specially restaurants pricing. There will now be diners going in for an appetizer or two and leaving for dinner in the MDR. I would do the same but what the hell is NCL thinking? Are they in financial trouble or is the new CEO wacko?

[sparks1093]

[quote name='maywell']What do you think the DSC is for the MDR? You thought the service in the MDR was free?!?![/quote]

I had to follow that string back a bit but the original comment was that passengers would eventually have to pay a la carte pricing in the MDR as well, in other words the food would no longer be included in the fare. And under those circumstances yes, that would definitely be a last straw for many.

[maywell]

[quote name='sparks1093']I had to follow that string back a bit but the original comment was that passengers would eventually have to pay a la carte pricing in the MDR as well, in other words the food would no longer be included in the fare. And under those circumstances yes, that would definitely be a last straw for many.[/QUOTE]

Not really the last straw for the lap band, stomach stapled, diabetics and others that can't eat alot at all - That's where the a la carte pricing actually works out in their favor over the cover charge. Can say many rude things about Andy Stuart but he does know his clientele - He knows that he has passengers that have health issues or dieting for health and he wants their money too; how many are in that category sailing every week - good question. He has that now along with UDP/SDP acting as a new cover charge - What most on NCL CC forum are forgetting is, how many of your fellow passengers ON THE SHIP have an invisible health issue that's only noticeable during meal time? Not on the forum because alot people don't have to state what their health issues and ages are at all, but rather the actual physical sailing.

[sparks1093]

[quote name='maywell']Not really the last straw for the lap band, stomach stapled, diabetics and others that can't eat alot at all - That's where the a la carte pricing actually works out in their favor over the cover charge. Can say many rude things about Andy Stuart but he does know his clientele - He knows that he has passengers that have health issues or dieting for health and he wants their money too; how many are in that category sailing every week - good question. He has that now along with UDP/SDP acting as a new cover charge - What most on NCL CC forum are forgetting is, how many of your fellow passengers ON THE SHIP have an invisible health issue that's only noticeable during meal time? Not on the forum because alot people don't have to state what their health issues and ages are at all, but rather the actual physical sailing.[/quote]

Yes, there are those that will definitely benefit from a la carte but I really, truly doubt that is the reason for the change- it's to make the company more money no matter how they (or you) try to spin it. Nothing inherently wrong with that, they are in business to make money. But I'm not going to let their marketing department keep me from seeing things as they are. (And as with all changes some will like it, some will be meh, and some will hate it, some will leave the cruise line and some will be attracted to the cruise line.)

At the end of the day the posters on CC filter these changes through their own lens and how it impacts them, just as you do, and most people don't consider how the change may benefit others (it's called human nature). If a change negatively impacts me I will say so (this one doesn't). So you may ask "if it doesn't impact you sparks why are you participating in this thread"? Because I do want to keep up with the changes and because I can;).

[insidecabin]

The food bill on ships is tiny in the bigger picture.

one of the reasons it has been included for years is because it is so cheap and the admin for any complex charging structure is just not worth the effort.

To remove all free food in the cruise price would reduce cruise fares by <$10 pppd.

The current daily cost already cover food for crew and speciality. so not alot left for the free stuff.

To recover that through pricing would mean very low prices per item or Visit.

or sensible pricing and loads more money

The main drive across all lines seems to be more to getting the cruise fare/up front spends profitible and not relying on onboard spends, to make money

If anything al a carte is to drive SDP sales up.

[maywell]

[quote name='insidecabin']The food bill on ships is tiny in the bigger picture.

one of the reasons it has been included for years is because it is so cheap and the admin for any complex charging structure is just not worth the effort.

To remove all free food in the cruise price would reduce cruise fares by <$10 pppd.

The current daily cost already cover food for crew and speciality. so not alot left for the free stuff.

To recover that through pricing would mean very low prices per item or Visit.

or sensible pricing and loads more money

The main drive across all lines seems to be more to getting the cruise fare/up front spends profitible and not relying on onboard spends, to make money

If anything al a carte is to drive SDP sales up.[/QUOTE]
Not just that, but NCL already has put into practice ways to reduce how much a person can eat with complimentary dining. People on CC really don't talk about food limiting, but now with the a la carte pricing - its dawning on some that NCL been doing that for years.

Other cruise lines limit complimentary food with portion size in the MDR but NCL takes it a step furthe with the buffet with the no trays and large super heavy porcelain plates. Was very interesting seeing that dieting trick on a cruise line like that - it actually forced people to think what to put on the plate and/or who was carrying what. May not seem like a big deal to most but to NCL, that's alot cost savings in food. Seriously, pay attention to how passengers behave in the buffets on NCL and another cruise line that uses trays (say Carnival), then watch how many times the staff changes pans / food trays when it empty - Starting difference.

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[punkincc]

[quote name='xxxyyz']So, I attended a Norwegian sales event at an Expedia Cruise travel agency the other day. I mentioned to the NCL rep that I was disappointed in the new a la carte policy. She claims that the option will remain for a single cover charge for the specialty restaurants but now it will be possible for fellow cruisers to join you for an app or dessert at an a la carte price. Anyone heard this?[/QUOTE]

This is what I think will happen. Once the changeover to a la carte occurs for Cagneys, Le Bistro and La Cucina, I think we will see a change in the Terms and Conditions for the SDP to add those venues to the current list of venues with additional up charge under SDP ( currently entertainment based dining and the current a la carte venues ).

The new "up charge" is probably what this person was referring to as a "cover". You buy the SDP, pay an additional "cover" amount of somewhere between $7 and $15 dollars, and then eat all you want sans a la carte pricing. It may be the full $15 they charge at Bayamo for Cagneys, and maybe only $7 for La Cucina.

Under a la carte pricing, anyone without a package can join someone with a package and pay a la carte pricing for a 3 or 4 course meal or just appys and dessert. One pays via the package terms, the other pays a la carte. Edited September 15, 2015 by punkincc

[hpecorari]

[quote name='maywell']Not just that, but NCL already has put into practice ways to reduce how much a person can eat with complimentary dining. People on CC really don't talk about food limiting, but now with the a la carte pricing - its dawning on some that NCL been doing that for years.

Other cruise lines limit complimentary food with portion size in the MDR but NCL takes it a step furthe with the buffet with the no trays and large super heavy porcelain plates. Was very interesting seeing that dieting trick on a cruise line like that - it actually forced people to think what to put on the plate and/or who was carrying what. May not seem like a big deal to most but to NCL, that's alot cost savings in food. Seriously, pay attention to how passengers behave in the buffets on NCL and another cruise line that uses trays (say Carnival), then watch how many times the staff changes pans / food trays when it empty - Starting difference.

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Those who are going to eat....are going to eat! They'll simply leave their dirty plate on the table and go up and get a clean plate and go through the line again.....then repeat. I've seen it.

Only thing this actually does is make more work for the crew. More dirty plates to clear from the table, more dirty plate and silverware to wash, etc.

Harriet

[NLH Arizona]

[quote name='hpecorari']Those who are going to eat....are going to eat! They'll simply leave their dirty plate on the table and go up and get a clean plate and go through the line again.....then repeat. I've seen it.

Only thing this actually does is make more work for the crew. More dirty plates to clear from the table, more dirty plate and silverware to wash, etc.

Harriet[/QUOTE]Have to agree. Those that are going to have 3 or 4 plates of food are having them whether the plates are heavy or there are no trays (BTW, up until recently Celebrity stopped the trays in the buffet and now they have really small ones, which I'll see in January if they are still there).

I do think if NCL is limiting any items with the dining packages and/or a la carte pricing, it is not to limit what one could eat, but to make them pay more if they want to eat more, which folks will do.

[Barb Nahoumi]

[quote name='emcelh']You make some valid points, although I wonder how many passengers without a dining plan are going to be going to the a la carte restaurants.

A well written letter or email might have more impact than comments to the phone rep though.[/QUOTE]

We would not go to an A la carte' restaurant. Not worth the extra charges & tips.

[maywell]

[quote name='hpecorari']Those who are going to eat....are going to eat! They'll simply leave their dirty plate on the table and go up and get a clean plate and go through the line again.....then repeat. I've seen it.

Only thing this actually does is make more work for the crew. More dirty plates to clear from the table, more dirty plate and silverware to wash, etc.

Harriet[/QUOTE]
Yes, but as insidecabin said - the cruise lines are now aiming for higher fares (front end) instead just making up with extras like specialty dining. Theoretically - What's 10 $5-10, 3 times a day wasteful plates from 1000 people when they have the minimum fare of 3000 for $700 a person each, for a 7 day trip with DSC to cover the cleanup? I had to do the math on this and insidecabin is absolutely right -at minimum, it cancels out. But when you start adding suites/havens, balconies, mini-suites prices that are above mininum of $700 per person - that's when you start seeing the money. Add in the DSC and its pretty much the passengers who are paying for the clean up, not the cruise line. Then there's the extras like specialty dining, drinks and spa, etc - that's just icing on top to the cruise line right now.

This new pricing model works in the cruise line's favor (not just NCL) in covering complimentary food waste. Its something to think about - it really is now all on the passengers and not the cruise line. [emoji52]



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[insidecabin]

IMO the primary goal of portion control is waste reduction as you can order as much as you like and double up on starters to make a bigger portion.

I like the smaller portions I can have more choices at each meal.

A plate of regular food on a cruise ship is in the sub $5 fully loaded, with many under $2/$3.

That burger pool side is probably $1.

Food is dirt cheap and going down ncl cost per pax for the ships food.
Q1 2015 food was $11 pppd
Q1 2014 food was $12.25 pppd.

edit : I need to look more closely at the finance releases.

I though Q1 2015 was the first with Regent/Oceania numbers I would have expected the average food to have gone up not down Edited September 15, 2015 by insidecabin

[egh170]

Why should we wonder? I don't know about foreigners but the American way is to just leave your trash for someone else to clean up. Just look along the USA highways and you can see what I mean. Paper and plastic bags, food containers, drink cups, soda & beer cans & cigarette butts everywhere. Some people are just lazy pigs.

Edited September 15, 2015 by egh170

[maywell]

IMO the primary goal of portion control is waste reduction as you can order as much as you like and double up on starters to make a bigger portion.

 

I like the smaller portions I can have more choices at each meal.

 

A plate of regular food on a cruise ship is in the sub $5 fully loaded, with many under $2/$3.

 

That burger pool side is probably $1.

 

Food is dirt cheap and going down ncl cost per pax for the ships food.

Q1 2015 food was $11 pppd

Q1 2014 food was $12.25 pppd.

 

edit : I need to look more closely at the finance releases.

 

I though Q1 2015 was the first with Regent/Oceania numbers I would have expected the average food to have gone up not down

That's exactly right - waste management / food money saving on their end. No matter how one diced it - its the passengers at specialty restaurants who are paying the cost for the large portions, whether its a la carte and cover charge(UDP/ SDP). The only difference is, in the case of a la carte - if a person does it right, they will pay way less than the original cover charge; if not, that's a hefty bill.

 

And I'll be honest - How many people can spend less than $15 at La Cucina or $20 at le Bistro per person? Cagney's is super easy to put off, but those 2 restaurants especially Le Bistro? Doubtful, unless a person honestly shares the ribeye.....

 

 

Edit - I know you probably know what normal food portion size looks like, Insidecabin, but not everyone knows - some people think a 32oz ribeye steak is serving size of one when in actuality, its 8-10 servings....

 

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Edited September 15, 2015 by maywell