Norwegian Cruise Line Raises Gratuities Twice in 5 Months

[maywell]

I found one story ... a Cruise Critic complainer who, the company thought, was leveraging social media to extract concessions from the company: http://www.expertcruiser.com/advice/royal-caribbean-says-get-out-of-here-to-couple/

 

Companies could do this. The company I work for fires clients from time to time, usually because of they way they treat our support staff (these are really egregious violations; you can't believe what people say to customer service representatives).

 

The way Andy Stuart is going right now - I hope he would. That Dateline special is making alot sense in hindsight what he wants to do; people can blame Del Rio as much as they like for the investor calls and news article but it Stuart that's running the show and pretense for the changes now were on camera years back.

 

There's times when firing / letting go a customer is in best interest of everyone - being nasty to staff that just doing their jobs like they're the executives / management making the decisions; is just asking for trouble. Instead of realizing that both are not necessary the same thing - people want to be ridiculous right now since they seem to think there is no penalty (yet).

[jaja]

 

 

The suite rate is higher because somebody has to clean the Haven itself, bus the tables, serve the hamburgers, clean the lounge, tend the lounge bar, serve at the 'included' haven restaurant (where applicable), on top of the stewards spending longer in each suite to clean it, than a regular cabin.

(which means more stewards required).

 

 

.

 

I am curious then ...why are my DSC (in a SF -non haven suite) also higher..? one bedroom and bath ...one steward..none of the Haven extras mentioned above.....

[electro]

The suite rate is higher because somebody has to clean the Haven itself, bus the tables, serve the hamburgers, clean the lounge, tend the lounge bar, serve at the 'included' haven restaurant (where applicable), on top of the stewards spending longer in each suite to clean it, than a regular cabin.

(which means more stewards required).

 

So if this is true then non-haven suites such as SF Aft penthouse on jewel class ships should not be paying as much as haven suites as the rooms are only slightly larger than mini suites and there is not access to the Haven or any of it's amenities.

 

Lois

[cruise9876kend]

Y don't they just include the charge with in the room rate in the first place that way everyone one is clear on where then stand nice and simple

[maywell]

So if this is true then non-haven suites such as SF Aft penthouse on jewel class ships should not be paying as much as haven suites as the rooms are only slightly larger than mini suites and there is not access to the Haven or any of it's amenities.

 

Lois

 

 

Really? I thought one of the amenities for non-haven suites was eating breakfast and lunch in one of the specialty restaurants like Cagney for "free". And Room Service basically free due to being one of the perks - guess they're cover by the DSC for 'free' as well. But I could be wrong...

[Cruise4Real]

But... a bartender isn't the only person working the bar usually. You have several satellite servers who are working the decks, and they also share in the bar's total 18% capture.

 

Which is the situation in a lot of land-based bars, too, right? The bartender makes the drink and often a waiter brings it to your table.

 

Of course if you're saying that you KNOW FOR A FACT that every penny collected under the guise of "gratuity and beverage service charge" is going to the bar workers, I'd ask you how you KNOW that. Please note I'm not saying I know for sure what is happening to all the tip money collected. Just that due to the points I laid out a logical person would conclude that OF COURSE NCL is capturing a good portion of that tip money. Since ultimately all the workers get paid, some of that captured money may be going to workers in other areas or departments, but it simply can't be ALL going to the folks who actually made and/or brought you the drink.

 

Think about it, a team of waiters serve you a four course dinner in the MDR and receive what, $5.00 from DSC? A bartender (or bartender and runner combo) serve you ONE DRINK and NCL charges you almost $2.00 service charge?!

 

Come on. The truth is staring you in the face.

[jmele999]

Huh?

 

The suite rate is higher because somebody has to clean the Haven itself, bus the tables, serve the hamburgers, clean the lounge, tend the lounge bar, serve at the 'included' haven restaurant (where applicable), on top of the stewards spending longer in each suite to clean it, than a regular cabin.

(which means more stewards required).

 

 

.

 

If you are in a non-haven suite, none of the things you listed above are needed or included. Should the excess tip be Haven customers only?

[moonieelf]

I just got off of the Gem yesterday, and after a conversation I had with an employee I am shocked by their policies. Not just this, but others. They work their employee's 7 days a week. One of my bartenders mentioned that he typically got between 3-5 hours of sleep a night. The average adult needs between 6.5-8 hours in order to have normal functionality. Now, if this money is going into a common pot for all of the employees on board, you do know that, on the smaller ships, they're collecting about $189,000 per sailings. I got this figure using the $13.50 figure for a passenger compliment of 2,000 for a 7 day sailing.

[sfaaa]

 

To the extent that DSC is a tax dodge (and as you said, who knows), well, my feeling on that is there's already far too much corporate tax avoidance going on! It wouldn't bother me one whit if NCL had a higher tax burden as a result. If they pass the taxes through onto cruisers, well, cruisers are generally speaking pretty affluent (not all, of course, but certainly most) and it probably doesn't surprise you to find out that I wouldn't have much problem with them (actually us, including me :)) picking up a bit more tax (though it wouldn't present as such, merely a marginally higher rate -- again we're talking about some modest tax on $100 per 7 day cruise, or so). At present, with NCL avoiding tax through DSC, all other tax payers are (essentially) subsidizing cruisers, and I think that's wrong.

!

 

No tax implication even if DSC is booked as revenue and then expensed out as wages to staff. It's essentially a wash. I don't buy the notion that NCL is dodging its fair share of tax obligation. Tax planning to minimize tax liability is a taxpayer's right so long as it is done legally. NCL is certainly entitled to exercise this legal right available to all taxpayers.

[jaja]

Really? I thought one of the amenities for non-haven suites was eating breakfast and lunch in one of the specialty restaurants like Cagney for "free". And Room Service basically free due to being one of the perks - guess they're cover by the DSC for 'free' as well. But I could be wrong...

 

My thought is those "amenities" is why we pay the higher cabin price...the extra hundreds and hundreds more.;) And should not affect the DSC..

[CanadaTraveller]

Two increases within a few months is just dumb. It makes a company look disorganized, haphazard and desperate. A planned approach to increases is fine. Raining gratuities every so often is necessary but doing it back to back like this really makes you scratch your head wondering what the heck is going on up in that boardroom.

 

 

I agree completely. The cost is not a deal breaker, it just feels knee jerk in its execution. NCL is a good product, fits my needs and is the yardstick by which I compare other lines. And at this point, no other line gives me the flexibility that NCL does, except for Oceania and Regent Seven Seas at a significant mark up. So, unless I see the product deteriorate, it is where I will spend my cruise dollar. If it does deteriorate, there are many other products out there, but I will have to adjust to their type of cruising. I just don't see wearing a suit to dinner as part of a relaxing time away.

 

As others have stated, I would prefer that the charges be included in the fare, so there isn't this sense of another payment. It just gets people's ire up.

[maywell]

My thought is those "amenities" is why we pay the higher cabin price...the extra hundreds and hundreds more.;) And should not affect the DSC..

 

I always thought the fare pays for the privileges of the amenities but the DSC pays for the actual service for those amenities. And suites get more special amenities than the regular rooms like oceanviews, even though majority of the suites are not in enclosed personal space like most Haven rooms. But then again, I could be wrong...

[maywell]

I agree completely. The cost is not a deal breaker, it just feels knee jerk in its execution. NCL is a good product, fits my needs and is the yardstick by which I compare other lines. And at this point, no other line gives me the flexibility that NCL does, except for Oceania and Regent Seven Seas at a significant mark up. So, unless I see the product deteriorate, it is where I will spend my cruise dollar. If it does deteriorate, there are many other products out there, but I will have to adjust to their type of cruising. I just don't see wearing a suit to dinner as part of a relaxing time away.

 

As others have stated, I would prefer that the charges be included in the fare, so there isn't this sense of another payment. It just gets people's ire up.

 

I think the reason why service charges / tips / gratuities are not going to part of the fare for NCL for the foreseeable future is because some people believe in, that 'service' should be paid afterwards or during the trip, not before. If NCL ever does included DSC as part of the fare - I would thank them because 1) it makes it easy see part of the total cost of the trip and 2) it would really get rid of some of the DSC-removing passengers from sailing that line due it being part of the fare and not something 'extra'.

[motleyfan]

I found one story ... a Cruise Critic complainer who, the company thought, was leveraging social media to extract concessions from the company: http://www.expertcruiser.com/advice/royal-caribbean-says-get-out-of-here-to-couple/

 

Companies could do this. The company I work for fires clients from time to time, usually because of they way they treat our support staff (these are really egregious violations; you can't believe what people say to customer service representatives).

 

If Norwegian started doing this I wonder if it would stop the whiners and complainers?

[mugtech]

If Norwegian started doing this I wonder if it would stop the whiners and complainers?

 

This is one couple 7 years ago, not exactly a trend. Many complainers don't do anything during the cruise is over, then they come on here. I'm willing to continue to ignore them.:)

[jaja]

I always thought the fare pays for the privileges of the amenities but the DSC pays for the actual service for those amenities. And suites get more special amenities than the regular rooms like oceanviews, even though majority of the suites are not in enclosed personal space like most Haven rooms. But then again, I could be wrong...

 

Even if I were to agree with this premise....it does not answer why a non Haven suite has to pay the same DCS as the Haven (with more service/employees/space involved). Maybe I am missing something...

[Jane Don]

Even if I were to agree with this premise....it does not answer why a non Haven suite has to pay the same DCS as the Haven (with more service/employees/space involved). Maybe I am missing something...

 

 

By that logic, why does an IX cabin pay the same as an aft facing balcony? With IX at say 499 and the balcony at 1500 pp, the lower level cabins with less services, amenities and size are paying a far greater percentage of their fare in DSC.

[Cruise4Real]

No tax implication even if DSC is booked as revenue and then expensed out as wages to staff. It's essentially a wash. I don't buy the notion that NCL is dodging its fair share of tax obligation. Tax planning to minimize tax liability is a taxpayer's right so long as it is done legally. NCL is certainly entitled to exercise this legal right available to all taxpayers.

 

I accept that what NCL does is legal. Just as Apple and others running profits through Ireland (or wherever they use now) is legal, more or less. When corporations use their financial clout to buy political influence in order to adjust tax policy I think calling it a "tax dodge" or "tax avoidance" is fair. I never said it was illegal. I also ended that paragraph by saying words to the effect "and we don't even know if this is the case."

 

From what you said NCL does not use DSC to avoid taxes -- it's a wash. I accept that, it sounds like you know more than me. So what ARE the benefits of DSC to NCL and the other lines?

[electro]

By that logic, why does an IX cabin pay the same as an aft facing balcony? With IX at say 499 and the balcony at 1500 pp, the lower level cabins with less services, amenities and size are paying a far greater percentage of their fare in DSC.

 

But an IX cabin doesn't have less services and amenities.

It has the same as a balcony. It is smaller but they both has a stewart that has one room and one bathroom to clean and although smaller, not that much less work, and the stewards don't clean balconies.

[Jane Don]

But an IX cabin doesn't have less services and amenities.

It has the same as a balcony. It is smaller but they both has a stewart that has one room and one bathroom to clean and although smaller, not that much less work, and the stewards don't clean balconies.

 

Balcony, coffee maker, bathrobe, bathtub, couch, windows to wash, etc.

[MisterFidgetpants]

By that logic, why does an IX cabin pay the same as an aft facing balcony? With IX at say 499 and the balcony at 1500 pp, the lower level cabins with less services, amenities and size are paying a far greater percentage of their fare in DSC.

Yes as a percentage the cheapest cabins pay the highest dsc. Can you imagine if it was a set percentage and not a dollar amount.

[maywell]

By that logic, why does an IX cabin pay the same as an aft facing balcony? With IX at say 499 and the balcony at 1500 pp, the lower level cabins with less services, amenities and size are paying a far greater percentage of their fare in DSC.

 

But an IX cabin doesn't have less services and amenities.

It has the same as a balcony. It is smaller but they both has a stewart that has one room and one bathroom to clean and although smaller, not that much less work, and the stewards don't clean balconies.

 

You're both forgetting that IX and Balconies both use the same regular breakfast /lunch staff and pay $7.95 plus tips for room service. While the suites have a choice of having breakfast/lunch with regular folks or having breakfast/ lunch without added fee at specialty restaurant like Cagney (of whatever is the designated restaurant suite perk assigned by NCL) and free room service because that what amenities for suites are. Remember service charges / gratuities also pays waitstaff and behind the scenes staff like laundry - and suites / Haven have different special bedding compare to rest of the folks in the regular rooms.

 

 

Edit: Forgot to add - For the IX pricing, their basically paying for a room to sleep and shower while a balcony is basically paying for the balcony and maybe some extra room plus bigger bath space. The suites is basically paying for the extra space, balcony and extra amenities like butler and concierge access.

Edited July 19, 2015 by maywell

[Jane Don]

Yes as a percentage the cheapest cabins pay the highest dsc. Can you imagine if it was a set percentage and not a dollar amount.

 

Which is why it is difficult to understand complaints from suite travelers that they are disadvantaged. Three people in a total $1000 a week cabin pay more than 28% DSC. In a small suite, jammed with amenities, 3 pax assuming a 3500 a week cabin price the percentage is less than 11.

 

Who in the world pays 28% mandatory gratuity on anything? Contractors don't even charge that level of mark-up.

[hpecorari]

Which is why it is difficult to understand complaints from suite travelers that they are disadvantaged. Three people in a total $1000 a week cabin pay more than 28% DSC. In a small suite, jammed with amenities, 3 pax assuming a 3500 a week cabin price the percentage is less than 11.

 

Who in the world pays 28% mandatory gratuity on anything? Contractors don't even charge that level of mark-up.

 

I could see what you're saying if the DSC was ONLY for the cabin steward. However, studio's, insides, etc. up to mini suites still have the use of the entire rest of the ship, restaurants, bars, behind the scene people, etc. etc. etc. As a matter of fact, those in studio's also have their own lounge which requires more service. The fact is you can't really use the price of the cabin since you have access the rest of the ship stuff too.

 

Harriet

[MisterFidgetpants]

I could see what you're saying if the DSC was ONLY for the cabin steward. However, studio's, insides, etc. up to mini suites still have the use of the entire rest of the ship, restaurants, bars, behind the scene people, etc. etc. etc. As a matter of fact, those in studio's also have their own lounge which requires more service. The fact is you can't really use the price of the cabin since you have access the rest of the ship stuff too.

 

Harriet

It's just a metric to go by. What if they eliminated DSC and charged a flat 15% of the cruise fare?