NCL Vs. other lines drastic changes

[3kidsncats]

I'm not nearly as frequent of a cruiser as I would like to be, and over the years have cruised with a few different lines. I think I'm more loyal to the basic cruise experience than a specific line.

 

And that's why some of the changes are not ones I like. For example, the NCL change to Al A Carte in the specialty dining. Hate that change. I like cruising specifically because I can go out to dine without basing my order on cost. That is my number one favorite part of cruising. Our budget doesn't allow lots of fancy meals out very often, so this is a big deal for me. When I take a cruise, I'm able to plan a tight but manageable budget well ahead of time, and not worry about it. Changes like this will make cruising a lot more like staying in a hotel. If they were to make a few of the specialty restaurants al a carte, but not all of them, then I would be more ok with it. And yes, I know I can still eat in the MDR at no additional cost, but who really likes feeling priced out of so many options while onboard?

 

Change can be good, and can enhance the overall experience, but it can also be a real detriment.

[NLH Arizona]

I'm not nearly as frequent of a cruiser as I would like to be, and over the years have cruised with a few different lines. I think I'm more loyal to the basic cruise experience than a specific line.

 

And that's why some of the changes are not ones I like. For example, the NCL change to Al A Carte in the specialty dining. Hate that change. I like cruising specifically because I can go out to dine without basing my order on cost. That is my number one favorite part of cruising. Our budget doesn't allow lots of fancy meals out very often, so this is a big deal for me. When I take a cruise, I'm able to plan a tight but manageable budget well ahead of time, and not worry about it. Changes like this will make cruising a lot more like staying in a hotel. If they were to make a few of the specialty restaurants al a carte, but not all of them, then I would be more ok with it. And yes, I know I can still eat in the MDR at no additional cost, but who really likes feeling priced out of so many options while onboard?

 

Change can be good, and can enhance the overall experience, but it can also be a real detriment.

 

Firstly, 2 of the restaurants are not a la carte and they are Moderno and the Teppanyaki restaurant.

 

With regard to the a la carte restaurants. If you think about it, you could purchase a 3 day SDP which comes out to $23 a meal (including 18% gratuity) or $69, where as, if you ate in two of the restaurants, Le Bistro and Cagney's, under the old fixed price it would be $58.94 for the two meals, including 18% gratuity. In other words, for about $10 more, you can have three meals in specialty restaurants under the SDP and not have to worry about what anything costs.

[3kidsncats]

Firstly, 2 of the restaurants are not a la carte and they are Moderno and the Teppanyaki restaurant.

 

With regard to the a la carte restaurants. If you think about it, you could purchase a 3 day SDP which comes out to $23 a meal (including 18% gratuity) or $69, where as, if you ate in two of the restaurants, Le Bistro and Cagney's, under the old fixed price it would be $58.94 for the two meals, including 18% gratuity. In other words, for about $10 more, you can have three meals in specialty restaurants under the SDP and not have to worry about what anything costs.

 

Those are the changes now -- but you can bet that there will more in the future, and they won't be going in the direction most of us want. The last time I sailed on NCL, it was $5 pp for the specialty dining -- this was right before "Freestyle" was started (so yes, a LONG time ago). You could order anything on the menu and there was no additional charge for filet or lobster. Obviously the world changes, costs for everything and everyone have gone up and $5 is no longer reasonable -- I'm not arguing that cost increases should never happen. I'm talking more about the overall concept of change, and specifically how it affects this industry and the fans of cruising.

 

One of the reasons I didn't travel on NCL the last time is because I prefer the traditional experience of having the same waiter, getting dressed up, etc. Freestyle didn't really appeal to me. It still doesn't in some ways. But I'm not exactly a luddite, so am willing to give it a try. Maybe I will love it when I'm there for our upcoming cruise. I will admit that I've been on a few "traditional" cruises in which the dinner table company was not particularly enjoyable. We were paired with people we just didn't connect with, who were a lot older, stuffy, or whatever. I think the Freestyle concept will work pretty well for us this time, and we have the UDP, so plan on using specialty dining the whole trip as we will be able to do family meals, and romantic tables for two as suits us. i just don't look forward to ever going on a cruise and being presented with a menu that has a price attached to everything. That will be a change that ends my cruising passion.

[omc329]

My problem is the only trust I have left in NCL is to continue changes, most for the worst. This last series of cancellations hit hard. My sis dumped the Med itinerary entirely and has decided to go to China and try something new. That is disappointing for me. Fortunately, for dh, myself and our adult son, we have found a Royal Caribbean itinerary that will meet our needs, though without my sis. At this point I will be glad for the change. Who knows, I might even get my other son and dil on that one. More business for RCI.

 

Yes, the dust will settle. Some will go, a few may come. How it all comes out in the wash remains to be seen. NCL is NOT a line to be trusted when booking, though. Everything can change on a whim, from tips, to charges, to itineraries and port times, and ALL on a whim.

 

I have FFC's to use up. Kinda wish I didn't. We'll see how the dust settles when I'm done with those. Regardless, it is definitely time to expand my horizons and check out some other cruiselines for my own comparisons.

 

I'll decide where I stand with NCL in a few years, after the dust settles and I've checked out some competition. Only time will tell if the company will benefit or hurt from the lack of trust they are building with the public currently.

[DevCruise]

I have FFC's to use up. Kinda wish I didn't. We'll see how the dust settles when I'm done with those. Regardless, it is definitely time to expand my horizons and check out some other cruiselines for my own comparisons.

 

I'm in the same boat. The only reason I haven't cancelled our Epic cruise is I have the promotion of a lifetime and a FCR to burn. As of right now, I won't be buying a new one on the next cruise. That may change by the time we cruise, but I'm not feeling it right now.

 

 

Not to defend NCL but it was inevitable that a lot of people would have their future plans impacted no matter when they would have "pulled the trigger" (can I still say that???).

 

Actually, there is a way of doing this without impacting anybody. NCL only releases their itineraries about two years out. Right now, that's about April 2017. You schedule changes like this after your currently released options.

[Jane Don]

 

Not to defend NCL but it was inevitable that a lot of people would have their future plans impacted no matter when they would have "pulled the trigger" (can I still say that???).

 

The problem is that a week before their announcement NCL continued to sell trips on itineraries they knew were not sailing. They continued to take deposits from people. Now that the sailings are cancelled people have to sail a year earlier to keep the price and perks. Any way you look it, it is shady.

 

Their present schedule only goes to April 17. The prudent thing to do is to make such grand plans far enough in advance that you do not have a massive negative impact on current customers. If they waited a year there would be no negative impact. They also could have mitigated damage by only cancelling the Star, offering Jade instead and left the Epic and Spirit for next year. NCL is obviously willing to absorb the loss of goodwill and customers to push their hastily made agenda.

[mking8288]

Listened in that live conference call, not reading the transcript, the tone was clear that NCL is not returning any ship to the market by pulling the Star out, as it has the lowest yield = profit !! So, basically thumbing the customers while singing to Wall Street in their dreams. Expect more enhanced ship shuffling ahead, time will be the judge of it all.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[cv322]

I'm not a blind-to-all-except-NCL kind of cruiser...although NCL is my favorite line. I have 2 Bermuda cruises upcoming which were recently shortened by 3 hours...an hour later getting in, & 2 hours sooner pulling out...and alot of people were moaning about "getting us into the casino quicker" and "buying more drinks onboard", etc. And of course the newly established tipping, and gratuity on beverage packages, etc...

 

So I saw this today & think it may be the reason for all the increase-the-profits scenarios we're seeing. And, if so, it makes sense to me ;):

 

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/ncl-scrubber-installation-delay-spells-higher-fuel-costs.html

 

35M is a pretty good incentive....;)

Edited August 6, 2015 by cv322

[eroller]

 

So I saw this today & think it may be the reason for all the increase-the-profits scenarios we're seeing. And, if so, it makes sense to me ;):

 

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/ncl-scrubber-installation-delay-spells-higher-fuel-costs.html

 

35M is a pretty good incentive....;)

 

 

Love it! NCL makes a mistake as to what type of scrubbers to install on their ships … which in turn results in higher fuel costs. Solution? Pass the cost on to our loyal customers!

 

Corporate America at its best. LOL

[Jane Don]

And because we have to burn a higher grade fuel in the mean time, we will shorten the time time in port and go slower - for your convenience.

[eroller]

And because we have to burn a higher grade fuel in the mean time, we will shorten the time time in port and go slower - for your convenience.

 

 

Another customer enhancement! LOL

[buckirj1]

So I saw this today & think it may be the reason for all the increase-the-profits scenarios we're seeing. And, if so, it makes sense to me ;):

 

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/ncl-scrubber-installation-delay-spells-higher-fuel-costs.html

 

35M is a pretty good incentive....;)

 

Excellent find! Thanks!

[Hendricks Clan]

I'm not THAT attached to any cruise line that I feel bad looking elsewhere. Typically, there is one that meets our needs and that we prefer sailing and that is usually the one we will book with. First CCL had our business...for a very long time, then they made changes (cuts I saw in entertainment) that lead us to start booking mostly with NCL

We were extremely happy with NCL until Sheehan left, then the changes started.

Personally, charging more for things does not ever lead me to leave a cruise line...it's other changes that do. Cuts in food quality or entertainment will make me leave OR in this case, my dissatisfaction with current NCL is their changing and elimination of itineraries that I love. Last year they cancelled our Pearl Southern Caribbean (it was chartered out)...gave us limited options to replace it and then totally pulled all of their 11-14 night Jan/Feb Southern Caribbean cruise out of Florida...and that was something we liked to book every year.

Move on to the present..I had an Oct 2016 Western (10 night) booked and recently found out that too has been cancelled due to all the shuffling of ships. We were given ONE option to switch to and that option was in the next calendar year, and an eastern as opposed to the western I wanted...plus in a month (January) when we prefer to stick to Southern routes to ensure warmer temps. To make matters worse, they gave us a short letter telling us our cruise was cancelled, told us our option to keep our price locked in was that one sailing in January and then didn't even tell us what the itinerary was...only it was an eastern for 10 nights, and the itinerary isn't going to be available (according to my TA...who called NCL for me) until the 17th of this month.

?????????????

Seriously. They want me to rebook and not even know exactly where the dang ship is going.

All these changes in itineraries we enjoy are forcing us to book more with Royal Caribbean.

We still have two Cruise Rewards Deposit things that we will use and we'll see how it goes after that...but in the mean time, I do have a Royal Cruise booked for January to the Southern Caribbean because NCL doesn't offer that any longer.

Again, I didn't mind the increase in the DSC...and any other charges that people complained about didn't bother me. I understand that costs increase...but don't keep pulling my cruises out form under me and then NOT giving me better options to rebook...and don't eliminate great itineraries.

 

Perfect response. Im not going to fault those that enjoy the promos while paying a higher fare. I get it, honestly I do. However, for someone like me who is not a drinker, and only eats once or twice in a speciality restaurant on a cruise the promos are not worth a higher cost to me. Ive stated in other threads and not to beat a dead horse but the biggest deal breaker to me is the elimination of interline rates once Del Rio took over. I was floored when I called several months back to book the Escape, when I asked about those rates my PCC said, we no longer offer those. I was told that if I wanted to book those rates, I needed to go to my airlines HR office to get those rates or book directly with ID90 (booking tool for airline employees). Well thats all fine and dandy, but if those rates are eliminated no matter where I go to book, I won't be able to get those rates. It now makes NCL vastly higher when compared to similar cruises offered by Carnival and RCI. Now with all the other changes, I just don't know what the product is going to be for my Escape cruise so I canceled it. I decided to branch out and give MSC Divina a try this fall. I got the MSC Yacht Club for only $200 more than my Balcony on Escape plus MSC made me feel welcome by matching my loyalty status from Carnival. Makes me feel appreciated and I haven't even stepped onboard one of their vessels.

[NLH Arizona]

I have FFC's to use up.

Folks have been successful selling FCC's on here and on ebay. You don't have to cruise with a company you don't trust.

[emmak8]

The cruise experience on NCL does not merit my looking the other way and excusing NCL because it is a business that has to make money to satisfy shareholders. Too many changes in too short a time. I have 6 cruises booked ON ANOTHER CRUISE LINE. Ciao NCL!!

[DMH15]

I will say this, and its not meant to start a debate on the merits of crew pay,

 

 

 

BUT I MIGHT lower DSC to the level when I booked. $12.00 (or whatever it was) a day PP, I won't get rid of it, unless service absolutely is horrible.

 

 

 

And tip extra as needed.

 

 

 

Maybe not, we'll have to see.

 

Please just reserve judgement and keep an open mind. You sound like you might.

[rydan]

Well thought out post from the OP. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and seeking those of others.

 

 

 

Just like an earlier post, I'm also not loyal to any one line. I like to try them all and experience the differences. I find they each have their strong points and weaknesses. I actually like change and don't want things to be the same.

 

 

 

I've been cruising since the late 70's when I was just a kid and I've seen all the cruise lines change and evolve. Yes policies changes, prices fluctuate, and in general the cruise industry has really evolved. One great thing is that we have more choice today from luxury to mass-market experiences than ever before. The ships are also more spectacular than ever before but also much more crowded. You have to take the good with the bad. Lots of great things to love about this this industry.

 

 

 

To NCL specifically, they have been extremely mismanaged in the past with countless management changes too frequent to remember. It's one reason they have never made it past #3 in this industry, although they have been around long enough that the opportunities certainly existed. Too many poor business decisions while their competitors were making the right ones. Now they are back on track but lately seem to have a few missteps. The new management team has been quick to add new fees, raise prices, change policies, etc. My problem is that none of it really seems to benefit the customer and it's all one sided towards profitability. I'm all for NCL being profitable but there has to be a balance which other cruise lines seem to manage better. Go ahead and increase fees and overall prices, but offer something in return like an enhancement to the onboard experience. That is the part missing to me. Beyond that, it's the way NCL has been going about it along with their CEO's comments to the investment community that don't sit well with me. It all seems to be in contempt of the customer, where as we just seem to be a nuisance to be manipulated as best as possible. The true stars right now are the stockholders. Perhaps other cruise lines operate the same way, but if they do they are better at hiding it.

 

 

 

So in a nutshell I don't have a problem with change and evolution, but I do think there is a way to go about it with a positive spin and that is where NCL is failing IMO.

 

 

Terrific post. Point well taken.

[Selluks]

The problem is not that they are making changes. It is how they are making changes. They really need to hire someone to handle their PR a little better. I assume they fired the PR guy as a cost cutting measure.

[rydan]

Halos,

 

Having two cruises cancelled would piss me off as well. I think despite the situation, your post was extremely diplomatic.

[Seago2]

Perfect response. Im not going to fault those that enjoy the promos while paying a higher fare. I get it, honestly I do. However, for someone like me who is not a drinker, and only eats once or twice in a speciality restaurant on a cruise the promos are not worth a higher cost to me. Ive stated in other threads and not to beat a dead horse but the biggest deal breaker to me is the elimination of interline rates once Del Rio took over. I was floored when I called several months back to book the Escape, when I asked about those rates my PCC said, we no longer offer those. I was told that if I wanted to book those rates, I needed to go to my airlines HR office to get those rates or book directly with ID90 (booking tool for airline employees). Well thats all fine and dandy, but if those rates are eliminated no matter where I go to book, I won't be able to get those rates. It now makes NCL vastly higher when compared to similar cruises offered by Carnival and RCI. Now with all the other changes, I just don't know what the product is going to be for my Escape cruise so I canceled it. I decided to branch out and give MSC Divina a try this fall. I got the MSC Yacht Club for only $200 more than my Balcony on Escape plus MSC made me feel welcome by matching my loyalty status from Carnival. Makes me feel appreciated and I haven't even stepped onboard one of their vessels.

 

 

I think you will love MSC. The ships are gorgeous, just beautiful.

[Hendricks Clan]

I think you will love MSC. The ships are gorgeous, just beautiful.

 

Im looking forward to it. Ive heard their ships are second to none in terms of elegance and entrainment. I am scared a little about the dinning, as I heard thats not up to par to american standards, but I believe there working to correct that before Divina comes back.

[rydan]

What an overwhelming response to my OP. There is no right or wrong responses here. I think you all are passionate about cruising and fell hurt by how the new changes were implemented.

 

However, one thing I take away from this thread is the reoccurring theme. That is NCL just making changes, and not using the tools available to get the word out to the masses, in a way that was much more professional then how it was handled. And this happens several times in a short period of time.

 

I for one really feel changes could have waited until the line knew everyone has been notified correctly.

 

Given the onslaught of small changes, it could be compared to mosquito bites. One or two is itchy, but several makes you uncomfortable.

[partigus]

Well thought out post from the OP. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and seeking those of others.

 

Just like an earlier post, I'm also not loyal to any one line. I like to try them all and experience the differences. I find they each have their strong points and weaknesses. I actually like change and don't want things to be the same.

 

I've been cruising since the late 70's when I was just a kid and I've seen all the cruise lines change and evolve. Yes policies changes, prices fluctuate, and in general the cruise industry has really evolved. One great thing is that we have more choice today from luxury to mass-market experiences than ever before. The ships are also more spectacular than ever before but also much more crowded. You have to take the good with the bad. Lots of great things to love about this this industry.

 

To NCL specifically, they have been extremely mismanaged in the past with countless management changes too frequent to remember. It's one reason they have never made it past #3 in this industry, although they have been around long enough that the opportunities certainly existed. Too many poor business decisions while their competitors were making the right ones. Now they are back on track but lately seem to have a few missteps. The new management team has been quick to add new fees, raise prices, change policies, etc. My problem is that none of it really seems to benefit the customer and it's all one sided towards profitability. I'm all for NCL being profitable but there has to be a balance which other cruise lines seem to manage better. Go ahead and increase fees and overall prices, but offer something in return like an enhancement to the onboard experience. That is the part missing to me. Beyond that, it's the way NCL has been going about it along with their CEO's comments to the investment community that don't sit well with me. It all seems to be in contempt of the customer, where as we just seem to be a nuisance to be manipulated as best as possible. The true stars right now are the stockholders. Perhaps other cruise lines operate the same way, but if they do they are better at hiding it.

 

So in a nutshell I don't have a problem with change and evolution, but I do think there is a way to go about it with a positive spin and that is where NCL is failing IMO.

 

 

1: I am not an experienced cruiser (one under my belt- 3 scheduled)

2: While I like the Freestyle concept, I am not a Norwegian apologist

3: As some one who is responsible for the asset positioning and communication of over 500 investment accounts worth over $800 Million I can assure you that the statements of CEO and CFO to the investment community are PURPOSELY tilted to increase confidence in future profits. NOT that they are talking out of both sides of their mouths, but they would obviously have a different angle speaking with customers. No difference here from NCL to IBM.

[eroller]

 

3: As some one who is responsible for the asset positioning and communication of over 500 investment accounts worth over $800 Million I can assure you that the statements of CEO and CFO to the investment community are PURPOSELY tilted to increase confidence in future profits. NOT that they are talking out of both sides of their mouths, but they would obviously have a different angle speaking with customers. No difference here from NCL to IBM.

 

 

While I can appreciate that, I've listened to investment calls of both Carnival and Royal Caribbean. There is a difference in the way their CEO's speak about the customer. It's much more respectable like something they actually appreciate instead of something just to be manipulated to squeeze more dollars out of. The objectives may be the same but the path is a bit different.

[Hendricks Clan]

While I can appreciate that, I've listened to investment calls of both Carnival and Royal Caribbean. There is a difference in the way their CEO's speak about the customer. It's much more respectable like something they actually appreciate instead of something just to be manipulated to squeeze more dollars out of. The objectives may be the same but the path is a bit different.

 

Exactly!