Do prepaid service charges include gratuity for Butler?

[Love my butler]

Hope you didn't give him an extra tip because of his comments, because it sounds like he might be trolling for tips.

 

So to add to the confusion and misinformation, you also don't believe comments made by the concierge and butlers because they might lie to garner extra tips?

 

What a wacky world it is at NCL where literally nothing can be believed no matter the source.

[punkincc]

Hope you didn't give him an extra tip because of his comments, because it sounds like he might be trolling for tips.

 

This is one of several comments I have seen from passengers over the past few months who have had conversations with various Butlers, specialty staff waiters, and bartenders, all reflecting the same general info, the fact that they have seen nothing in their wages from the increased DSC, 18% add on in Specialties, and increased service charge percentages for drinks. Have you even heard one single report of an NCL employee who reported "oh, yes, very nice increase"? Are they all lying, trolling for tips?

[skyfire53]

Yes you can, I did this on my last cruise. You just go to guest services and tell them how much of your onboard credit you would like given to whom. They will then give you a voucher showing the amount that you can give to the butler, concierge, room steward, etc.

 

Thank you so much...with having the UDP and the UBP, not much else I need to spend my OBC on....I thought I had read somewhere on here that you could do that. :)

[watchdiva]

I'm pretty amazed at some conversations pax have with butlers and concierges. I cannot imagine asking them "how do you like" questions! And I find it incredibly poor taste on the part of the crew to engage is conversations negative to their employment. I wonder if the pax share how much they dislike their boss or what their pay is based upon! SMH....

Edited October 23, 2015 by watchdiva

[abe3]

I'm pretty amazed at some conversations pax have with butlers and concierges. I cannot imagine asking them "how do you like" questions! And I find it incredibly poor taste on the part of the crew to engage is conversations negative to their employment. I wonder f the pax share how much they dislike their boss or what their pay is based upon! SMH....

 

 

It's just smoke out the other end with pax stories. People don't ask how much you make or if they get tips to the butlers. If you do maybe they should in turn ask how much you make. People make up stories all the time and just becomes a tall tall tale on these boards.

 

Also if people asked me and others how they like their boss I am sure a majority will say the same thing.

Edited October 23, 2015 by abe3

[NLH Arizona]

I'm pretty amazed at some conversations pax have with butlers and concierges. I cannot imagine asking them "how do you like" questions! And I find it incredibly poor taste on the part of the crew to engage is conversations negative to their employment. I wonder f the pax share how much they dislike their boss or what their pay is based upon! SMH....

I'm right there with you. When one goes to a grocery store, do they ask how the clerk likes the person who runs the company or ask them how much money they make or how much of the profits do they get in salary. I can't imagine asking anyone some of these questions nor would I think a professional employee with take part in answering any of these questions, especially with regard to their salary. And I would bet dollars to donuts that those unprofessional crew members who are answering, will say they don't like the person and they don't get and/or make enough money, because the professional crew member wouldn't answer these questions.

[punkincc]

I'm right there with you. When one goes to a grocery store, do they ask how the clerk likes the person who runs the company or ask them how much money they make or how much of the profits do they get in salary. I can't imagine asking anyone some of these questions nor would I think a professional employee with take part in answering any of these questions, especially with regard to their salary. And I would bet dollars to donuts that those unprofessional crew members who are answering, will say they don't like the person and they don't get and/or make enough money, because the professional crew member wouldn't answer these questions.

 

At the grocery store, or department store, no, because I am not being charged a gratuity or service charge by them which I am led to believe by the store goes into the salary of the employee. If I were, as I am on a cruise, then I would be very interested to know if the employees were actually seeing any new fees and service charge increases reflected in their pay.

 

People can fuss all they want about how unprofessional they are and how it's none of our business, but that's just an excuse to ignore the fact that the comments reportedly made by staff are always that the employees ( if the ones who dare to talk are to be believed ) have seen no change in pay despite 2 DSC increases in 6 months, an additional increase in suite DSC, and some new 18% fees added.

 

I agree that what NCL pays their employees is between them and the employee. If they are not getting what they feel they deserve, that is their battle. But I do not like being told by a company that I am paying a gratuity, and yes the DSC is also referred to by NCL as a gratuity, when in fact the company may be using it as a service charge that has no impact on employee pay. That rubs me the wrong way IF it is in fact true. If NCL is not using any of these 2 DSC increases or other fees for the employees salaries, just just be straight up and call it a service charge, and I can then tip people accordingly. I just want to know where I stand.

[NLH Arizona]

At the grocery store, or department store, no, because I am not being charged a gratuity or service charge by them which I am led to believe by the store goes into the salary of the employee. If I were, as I am on a cruise, then I would be very interested to know if the employees were actually seeing any new fees and service charge increases reflected in their pay.

 

People can fuss all they want about how unprofessional they are and how it's none of our business, but that's just an excuse to ignore the fact that the comments reportedly made by staff are always that the employees ( if the ones who dare to talk are to be believed ) have seen no change in pay despite 2 DSC increases in 6 months, an additional increase in suite DSC, and some new 18% fees added.

 

I agree that what NCL pays their employees is between them and the employee. If they are not getting what they feel they deserve, that is their battle. But I do not like being told by a company that I am paying a gratuity, and yes the DSC is also referred to by NCL as a gratuity, when in fact the company may be using it as a service charge that has no impact on employee pay. That rubs me the wrong way IF it is in fact true. If NCL is not using any of these 2 DSC increases or other fees for the employees salaries, just just be straight up and call it a service charge, and I can then tip people accordingly. I just want to know where I stand.

Ask the Hotel Director, don't put the crew in (1) an awkward position and (2) in the position to lose their jobs for talking about their compensation.

 

You might not pay a DSC in a grocery store, but the cruise lines are not any different than any other company. We pay the salaries, the overhead, etc. of every business in one way or another.

 

The employee knows going in (they sign a contract) what their compensation is and yes that is between the employee and NCL, not between the employee, NCL and NCL's customers. If any employee is not making what they feel they should, then they should leave and get another job instead of complaining to customers that they are not getting something.

 

I would guess that a profession crew member is not going to become involved in a conversation with regard to their compensation, but one who is looking for additional tips would be unprofessional enough to complain.

[hypercafe]

At the grocery store, or department store, no, because I am not being charged a gratuity or service charge by them which I am led to believe by the store goes into the salary of the employee. If I were, as I am on a cruise, then I would be very interested to know if the employees were actually seeing any new fees and service charge increases reflected in their pay.

 

People can fuss all they want about how unprofessional they are and how it's none of our business, but that's just an excuse to ignore the fact that the comments reportedly made by staff are always that the employees ( if the ones who dare to talk are to be believed ) have seen no change in pay despite 2 DSC increases in 6 months, an additional increase in suite DSC, and some new 18% fees added.

 

I agree that what NCL pays their employees is between them and the employee. If they are not getting what they feel they deserve, that is their battle. But I do not like being told by a company that I am paying a gratuity, and yes the DSC is also referred to by NCL as a gratuity, when in fact the company may be using it as a service charge that has no impact on employee pay. That rubs me the wrong way IF it is in fact true. If NCL is not using any of these 2 DSC increases or other fees for the employees salaries, just just be straight up and call it a service charge, and I can then tip people accordingly. I just want to know where I stand.

 

I agree 100%. I was paying for six family members in the villa and the DC was 600$. I have the right to ask if the people who helped me got the money. Their answer was it went into a pool that paid their salary that was based on the contract they signed when they started. Any increase during the contract had no impact on them. I never asked, nor did they say what their pay was however I feel really ripped off if after paying 600$ for tips the people who took care of me got none of it. I read the contract between NCL and me and no place does it say the crew is not included in the fare. When I booked the PCC asked not to forget the butler as they are not part of the pool. The whole thing really sounds like a money grab by NCL at the expense of the crew.

 

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[punkincc]

Ask the Hotel Director, don't put the crew in (1) an awkward position and (2) in the position to lose their jobs for talking about their compensation.

 

You might not pay a DSC in a grocery store, but the cruise lines are not any different than any other company. We pay the salaries, the overhead, etc. of every business in one way or another.

 

The employee knows going in (they sign a contract) what their compensation is and yes that is between the employee and NCL, not between the employee, NCL and NCL's customers. If any employee is not making what they feel they should, then they should leave and get another job instead of complaining to customers that they are not getting something.

 

I would guess that a profession crew member is not going to become involved in a conversation with regard to their compensation, but one who is looking for additional tips would be unprofessional enough to complain.

 

I, for one, would never put a crew member in an ackward position by asking about salary. And, I agree, a staff person who grumbles about his employer at work is not professional. And we could ask the HD, but honestly, do you think we'd get a straight answer even though he might wish to dish the real facts? That only puts him in an ackward position as well.

 

And yes, when I shop at Sears, I am paying the salary of everyone who works there, but that is an entirely different scenario than one in which I am tipping an employee in a service industry like a restaurant, hotel or cruise ship. I know where I stand in a restaurant and hotel. My gratuity goes straight from my hand into the employees pocket. No one else, save maybe a busser, takes a cut except uncle Sam. On a cruise, NCL tells me I am paying the gratuity with my DSC. It goes into a pool. How much of it is retained by NCL for it's own purposes and how much actually is eventually filtered down to an employee is about as clear as mud.

 

If they do not wish it to be my business, then do as Sears does, charge me for their product, and pay their staff from that money. But as long as they charge me SEPERATELY for a daily gratuity, then how much of that reaches the employee is my business. Or, simply start calling it a service charge which has nothing to do with gratuity, and we can all just tip according to what we feel is fair.

Edited October 23, 2015 by punkincc

[NLH Arizona]

I, for one, would never put a crew member in an ackward position by asking about salary. And, I agree, a staff person who grumbles about his employer at work is not professional. And we could ask the HD, but honestly, do you think we'd get a straight answer even though he might wish to dish the real facts? That only puts him in an ackward position as well.

 

You might get a more honest answer from the Hotel Director, whose job doesn't depend on tips. The Hotel Director is management and they can, without any chance of retribution, tell you it is none of your business.

[punkincc]

You might get a more honest answer from the Hotel Director, whose job doesn't depend on tips. The Hotel Director is management and they can, without any chance of retribution, tell you it is none of your business.

 

A more honest answer from someone in Management who represents NCL and therefore must put a positive spin on everything? I would never ask, because I know the answer is not going to be divulged. And if they did, I'm sure they would not be immune to retribution from upper management. And if you feel that the answer would be "none of your business" why would you even make the suggestion that someone ask the HD?

 

As far as it being none of my business, they are asking me for a gratuity to be paid to their employees. Whether or not they actually pay it is none of my business? If they siphon some off to go toward the bottom line, that is none of my business? I'm not asking for specific information per employee. Just tell me if what I pay is allocated to them 100%, 50%, 25% or whatever the case may be and I'll be satisfied. Some of the cruise lines are upfront about this, indicating specifically how much of each DSC is allocated to which staff positions. Then I will know how much gratuity I have actually paid, and can determine if I feel any more is warranted.

[NLH Arizona]

A more honest answer from someone in Management who represents NCL and therefore must put a positive spin on everything? I would never ask, because I know the answer is not going to be divulged. And if they did, I'm sure they would not be immune to retribution from upper management. And if you feel that the answer would be "none of your business" why would you even make the suggestion that someone ask the HD?

 

As far as it being none of my business, they are asking me for a gratuity to be paid to their employees. Whether or not they actually pay it is none of my business? If they siphon some off to go toward the bottom line, that is none of my business? I'm not asking for specific information per employee. Just tell me if what I pay is allocated to them 100%, 50%, 25% or whatever the case may be and I'll be satisfied. Some of the cruise lines are upfront about this, indicating specifically how much of each DSC is allocated to which staff positions. Then I will know how much gratuity I have actually paid, and can determine if I feel any more is warranted.

You really believe what the other cruise lines are saying? Do you really think that each and every Room Steward on those cruise lines make the same or close to the same amount of money from the automatic gratuities? Do you really think that a Room Steward on their first contract gets the same amount as a 10 year veteran of a cruise line? If the answer is yes, I've got a great ocean view house for sale in Arizona, that you might be interested in.

 

Instead of putting crew in an awkward position and risking their employment by asking them any questions about their compensation, don't pay the DSC and tip what you feel is appropriate or don't cruise on a line that does not divulge the information you will believe. If you think NCL is siphoning money off the top for their profits (even after they say clearly where the DSC goes), then pony up that proof.

 

BTW, don't you wonder why some of the other cruise lines don't have their gratuity breakdown on their websites any longer?

Edited October 23, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[Cuizer2]

This is incorrect. The butler and concierge are NOT included in the DSC pool.

 

Which pool is the DSC pool?

[LMaxwell]

Which pool is the DSC pool?

 

NCL's wording is so vague I don't think anyone here can accurately say which positions are definitively in the pool or not.

[Jane Don]

NCL's wording is so vague I don't think anyone here can accurately say which positions are definitively in the pool or not.

Agreed. Do you really think that the most prized customer service position on the ship is excluded from the incentive program? It is possible, but not at all probable.

[hypercafe]

Which pool is the DSC pool?

 

The DSC pool is the one where your money goes but no one can find out where it empties to. Since in NCL'S answers to questions they say tips are not required but greatly appreciated for a job well done it's not a tip. They also say please do not forger your butler and concierge if they help you so it's a real mystery to me what the 15.50 pp a day is for. I checked the passanger contract and no place does it say in all that fine print that the crew is not included in the fare. I guess it's all part of that extra money FDR wants from each passanger, like the room service fee and the 18% added to the speciality restaurant fee and the UBP. I wonder when they will charge 18% on shore trips or maybe a surcharge to ride the tender.

 

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[LMaxwell]

Agreed. Do you really think that the most prized customer service position on the ship is excluded from the incentive program? It is possible, but not at all probable.

 

I do NOT personally think they are excluded. But that is only my opinion and I can not prove that. However, if they are not in the pool, I would have to believe they earn very handsome salaries for their work.

[punkincc]

You really believe what the other cruise lines are saying? Do you really think that each and every Room Steward on those cruise lines make the same or close to the same amount of money from the automatic gratuities? Do you really think that a Room Steward on their first contract gets the same amount as a 10 year veteran of a cruise line? If the answer is yes, I've got a great ocean view house for sale in Arizona, that you might be interested in.

 

Instead of putting crew in an awkward position and risking their employment by asking them any questions about their compensation, don't pay the DSC and tip what you feel is appropriate or don't cruise on a line that does not divulge the information you will believe. If you think NCL is siphoning money off the top for their profits (even after they say clearly where the DSC goes), then pony up that proof.

 

BTW, don't you wonder why some of the other cruise lines don't have their gratuity breakdown on their websites any longer?

 

 

So, you have pretty much said that you don't think NCL or any other cruise line is being straight up with passengers about DSC. And that is OK with you?

 

I would assume there are differences in pay based on years of service and performance. I don't need specifics. All I really want to know is whether or not 100% of my DSC goes into the gratuity pool to be paid out to employees however NCL sees fit. That "service charge" handle placed on the Daily Service Charge and the 18% add ons for Specialty and Beverage Service currently called the "Specialty Service and Gratuity Charge and Beverage Service and Gratuity Charge" really muddies the water.

 

Cause we all know Service Charges belong to the company. When you see that at a hotel, you have no illiusion that it goes to an employee. So I just wish NCL would be clear about it. If part is a service charge, just say 3% Service Charge and 15% Gratuity or whatever the case may be, and I'll know where I stand.

[njhorseman]

NCL's wording is so vague I don't think anyone here can accurately say which positions are definitively in the pool or not.

 

Agreed. Do you really think that the most prized customer service position on the ship is excluded from the incentive program? It is possible, but not at all probable.

 

NCL is very clear about butlers and the concierge not benefiting from the service charge. This, or similar, wording has been published in the tipping FAQ on the NCL website for quite some time:

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq#tipping

 

"Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. "

[Leavethekidswithmom]

Which pool is the DSC pool?

 

 

It's the one near the basketball court. [emoji12]

[NLH Arizona]

So, you have pretty much said that you don't think NCL or any other cruise line is being straight up with passengers about DSC. And that is OK with you?

 

I would assume there are differences in pay based on years of service and performance. I don't need specifics. All I really want to know is whether or not 100% of my DSC goes into the gratuity pool to be paid out to employees however NCL sees fit. That "service charge" handle placed on the Daily Service Charge and the 18% add ons for Specialty and Beverage Service currently called the "Specialty Service and Gratuity Charge and Beverage Service and Gratuity Charge" really muddies the water.

 

Cause we all know Service Charges belong to the company. When you see that at a hotel, you have no illiusion that it goes to an employee. So I just wish NCL would be clear about it. If part is a service charge, just say 3% Service Charge and 15% Gratuity or whatever the case may be, and I'll know where I stand.

 

No, I never said any such thing. I ask how someone could believe what someone puts in writing. Just because a cruise line breaks down the gratuity by category doesn't make it true. I think X amount of each DSC/gratuity goes into that job category's pool, but I certainly don't think that if a cruise line says $4.00 goes to Room Steward that every Room Steward gets $4.00, because I think it depends a lot of different things (how well they do their job, are they late to work, have they been written up for something, how many hero cards have been written up on them, etc.), but I still think that $4.00 goes into the Room Steward's pool and I think that is why some cruise lines have deleted any breakdowns from their websites, because there are some (those that ask inappropriate questions about a crew members compensation), that will ask their Room Steward if they get $4.00 from each and every room's gratuities/DSC they are assigned to and if they say no, then that person will go around telling folks that the cruise line takes money from the gratuities/DSC. I also don't think that NCL or any other cruise line, takes any of the DSC/grautity money for their revenue. I think, since all or most of the cruise lines are public companies, if it was true that they take money from gratuities/DSC, there would have been a huge outcry by now, because that would have made one heck of a story for the news media.

 

NCL is clear about it, they clearly say: Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

Edited October 29, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[emcelh]

It seems to me that the staff must be satisfied with how they're compensated since there are so many that are long-term employees. We talk to a lot of them, it's what we do, and it's easy to find crew members who have been on NCL ships 15-20 years.

 

I'm not concerned how the DSC is divided. If I was I would either remove it and tip in cash or find another cruiseline.

[Cuizer2]

NCL's wording is so vague I don't think anyone here can accurately say which positions are definitively in the pool or not.

 

Well, the ones with wet clothing were likely in the pool and the ones with dry clothing were likely not in the pool.

[Cuizer2]

It's the one near the basketball court. [emoji12]

 

Well, I've looked in that pool at the end of every cruise and I've yet to find any money in the pool. But just in case I get lucky, I'll keep looking.