Late Embarkation on Celebrity in a different port?

[Bollinge]

We are booked on a repositioning voyage on X Summit in April, as she relocates to New Jersey for her summer and Bermuda itineraries.

 

We are visiting friends in St. Thomas prior to the cruise, and we asked X if we could embark there on day 2, instead of flying to Puerto Rico to embark there the day before. San Juan and St. Thomas are classed as the USA. The U.K. Arm of X said "No", citing the Jones Act and US Customs and Immigration "Closed Loop" policies.

 

When I pointed out that the Jones Act does not apply on this trip as we are calling at the foreign ports of Sint Maarten and Bermuda, Celebrity UK said day-late embarkation in St. Thomas would be AOK.

 

Our cruise mates in St. Thomas however, tried to arrange late embarkation but they were told it was not possible because of the "closed loop", which means a round trip back to the first U.S. port of embarkation. In our case that would be San Juan or St. Thomas embarkation and Bayonne, N.J., disembarkation. So it is an open loop!

 

Finally, all eight of us have got permission to go on board a day late, but has anyone else had experience of this; as regards the formalities, "so-called security", credit card registration and key card issues, lifeboat drills, etc?

 

Thanks.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Bollinge

[az_tchr]

An open loop is a cruise that begins and ends in different ports. I have no idea what or how the Jones Act has to do with the closed vs. open routing. I do note that most Celebrity employees would only very rarely deal with either a passenger arriving late or departing early and thus would likely not know the correct legal information. It is a hassle to the cruise line for documentation of their passenger list modifications and they definitely would discourage it.

 

You would be required to have a separate emergency briefing but nothing else should be a hassle. boarding would need some sort of contact if boarding a day late but this happens all the time due to weather etc.

[rwb]

Entertainers, third-party contractors, late-arriving passengers, and crew embark and disembark at stops along the way so the process for handling partial cruisers must be routine as far as the ship's staff and security officers are concerned. Royal Caribbean even has a whole FAQ page discussing how to book a "partial cruise". Celebrity doesn't seem to have such a FAQ on their site. However, they are said to share the same ground staff, so it might help to contact the Guest Flight Operations department for RCCL which handles those arrangements -- if they can't handle the request for Celebrity they may at least have advice for how to and who to deal with Celebrity.

 

The Jones Act concern, I suppose, is whether or not you visit a qualifying foreign port between US ports. I would be surprised if the itinerary doesn't include one.

Edited January 27, 2016 by rwb

[BourbonNBluesLuvr]

Hello,

 

I am no expert...though there are some on these boards who are, and will probably chime in..and no doubt correct me if I am wrong here...

 

First...it is not the Jones Act that is applicable to cruise ships, it is the Passenger Vessel Services Act...PVSA...(The Jones act governs the transport of cargo).

 

Secondly, the cruise from Puerto Rico to Bayonne is allowed not because of the stops in St Maarten and Bermuda (which are foreign ports, but NOT distant foreign ports), but because the cruise originates in Puerto Rico...and although San Juan PR is a US port, PR is exempt from the guidelines of the PVSA.

 

Thirdly...I think what you have proposed...the vessel embarking passengers (you) in St Thomas, and debarking you in Bayonne, is in fact a violation of the PVSA.

 

Experts ?

 

BBL

Edited January 27, 2016 by BourbonNBluesLuvr

[Xfedcruiser]

I agree with everything BBL says - and couldn't have said it better. The key is that San Juan is an exception in the rules of the PVSA.

[gowilk]

How they handle it if you "accidentally"??? Missed your flight to San Juan?

[Gonzo70]

My understanding is that St. Thomas is also exempt from the Passenger Vessel Services Act, so in theory the OP could board in St. Thomas without violating the law if Celebrity is able to make accommodations for this.

 

As for the question about "accidentally" missing the port of embarkation - if the ensuing itinerary would violate the PVSA the cruise line most likely would NOT permit the person to board the cruise at the next port. This issue most commonly arises for Alaska cruises ending in a US port - one cannot legally board the cruise in a different US port than the cruise is scheduled to end in. Exceptions are made if someone has to violate the PVSA via leaving a cruise early because of an emergency, but a $300 per/person fine may nevertheless be enforced.

 

Another risk to keep in mind for choosing to board a cruise late is sometimes cruises miss ports. Could be a mechanical issue, weather, a strike or unrest at the port, the ship being delayed earlier in the cruise and needing to skip the port etc. etc.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Gonzo70

[AlanAllyn]

I don't know if the PVSA is waived for St. Thomas also. If it is not, you would not be allowed to board until the ship reached a foreign port.

 

This is a very large problem for Alaska cruises out of Seattle.

[BourbonNBluesLuvr]

My understanding is that St. Thomas is also exempt from the Passenger Vessel Services Act, so in theory the OP could board in St. Thomas without violating the law if Celebrity is able to make accommodations for this.

 

 

Hello

 

Thanks...thats the point I wasn't sure about...I think I had read on these boards before about St Thomas being exempt as well......but have never read that in writing in CBP literature etc...

 

BBL

[vedettes1]

Turning this discussion on its head, what if I want to get off a ship before finishing a cruise? For example, suppose St Martin is the last stop before returning to San Juan and I want to spend a week on St Martin. Can I disembark there?

[Gonzo70]

Turning this discussion on its head, what if I want to get off a ship before finishing a cruise? For example, suppose St Martin is the last stop before returning to San Juan and I want to spend a week on St Martin. Can I disembark there?

 

Generally yes; occasionally one cannot because of cabotage laws (i.e. the Passenger Vessel Services Act - some countries other than the US have cabotage as well, but generally not as restrictive) but on most itineraries it is permissible from a legal standpoint. One does have to make arrangements with the cruise line in advance so one can undergo any formalities required by the host country as well as to close out one's account with the ship. Of course in case of an emergency this ship will assist with this without prior advance approval.

[DrivesLikeMario]

We can all speculate as to what we THINK Celebrity will, or will not, do. Passengers interested in doing what the OP is doing need to go through Celebrity because their interpretation of the law may not match what people here say. Whatever their decision is, get it IN WRITING.

 

OP-You said all 8 of you are approved to embark late, but is it in writing? If you get a verbal "okay" there's a good chance someone else later in the story will say, "no" so you need that to protect you. Everyone must have the approval for any early disembarkation or late embarkation in writing from Celebrity.

 

I have seen many people boarding in St. Thomas, a day after our cruise from San Juan has started. Some were crew but most were people who encountered bad weather and couldn't make it to the ship in time. I'm not sure what Celebrity does, but Princess usually has a desk set up at the gangway where you present your ID and your Set Sail Pass. With Princess, the luggage had to be dragged on yourself after it went through the scanner. Embarkation generally seemed to take 3 mins. The table was set up for a period of about 5 or 6 hrs. until all those expected were boarded.

Edited January 27, 2016 by DrivesLikeMario

[varoo]

Whether or not downline embarkation will be allowed depends on the port and the circumstances involved.

 

This subject has come up before on Cruise Critic and several people reported that they did receive approval for downline embarkation at St. Thomas.

 

But you need to make prior arrangements. They can approve it, but they don't have to and there may be circumstances where they would not.

 

I also recall that someone reported being denied downline embarkation at St. Croix, but don't' remember the reason, if it was given.

 

As others have said, regardless of whether you want a deviation for embarkation or disembarkation, apply in advance and get written approval to bring along with you.

 

 

 

From Celebrity Website:

Can I Join My Cruise After It Starts Or Disembark Before It Ends?

It depends on the specific itinerary of your cruise, your nationality, and various United States and foreign laws. Joining the cruise at one of its ports of call or leaving the cruise prior to its scheduled termination point may be prohibited by law. If you need to join late or leave early, or both, submit your request in advance and we will tell you whether your proposed changes will be permitted.

 

For more information, call 800-256-6649. There is a cut-off date for submitting this information, so make your request early. Please note that no refunds, prorated or otherwise, are granted to customers who join their cruise late or leave their cruise early. Certain governments impose fines or other charges when a guest permanently disembarks from a cruise before its final port of call. The guest will be responsible for those charges.

 

.

[dkjretired]

You have to understand this affects the cruise line in a negative way. They will be fined by the government for each person in violation.

[Bollinge]

 

OP-You said all 8 of you are approved to embark late, but is it in writing? If you get a verbal "okay" there's a good chance someone else later in the story will say, "no" so you need that to protect you. Everyone must have the approval for any early disembarkation or late embarkation in writing from Celebrity.

 

 

Yes, we now all have letters entitled "Pre-Downline Request" which state "The following guest is authorized to down line as follows......blah blah blah".

[Algebralovr]

The PVSA exception is for the USVI as well, because there is no passenger sea vessel service between the USVI and the mainland US. That is why it is allowed.

 

If it closed loop, it might not be allowed, because it changes they standing of the cruise to not be all closed loop passengers.

 

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