Any lawyers on here?

[cjcruises]

In the scenario I mentioned it is absolutely right. A business is not gonna suffer a monetary loss because someone wrongly entered the price of an item into a database. You would be hard pressed to find any business that would honor a price error of any significance especially if it was abused on a grand scale.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

In Canada, if there is a pricing error on the vendor's part, they are required to honour it. (Possibly not online, but definitely in bricks and mortar stores.) in fact, if a grocery store prices an item incorrectly, they have to give it to you free (if under $10) or reduce the price by $10. Even when I worked retail as a student, we have to be VERY careful with pricing and signage because of the customers' rights and the vendor's responsibility and obligation to advertise prices correctly.

In this case, though, there was no pricing error. They knowingly and willingly sold OBC at a certain rate (depending on when one booked their cruise). They ha e now changed a policy, limiting the amount of OBC one is able to purchase and are grandfathering that policy to their advantage.

Adjust the price going forward - no problem. But to retroactively claw back a purchase seems wrong. It may not be illegal, but it is unethical, IMO. They may well be within their rights, in fact I'm sure they are since the terms and conditions pretty much give them carte blanche to do whatever they want. Doesn't mean their passengers have to blindly accept it, especially after specifically asking NCL about limitations on OBC and being given multiple reassurances that this would not happen.

Edited February 3, 2016 by cjcruises

[sail7seas]

No I actually mean purchasing ncl gift cards. You can buy them in denominations up to $1000. And in the faq's it says a maximum of 3 can be used per transaction. So, I would think you could purchase 3 $1000 gift cards that total $3000. When you get on the ship you take them to the front desk and apply them to your on board spending account.

 

I'm not Canadian. And, I have no idea how the legality works. But, it occurs to me that if they accept gift cards as payment on board (they absolutely do), then really what's the difference between that and obc?

 

i would approach a link to the ncl gift card, but it never works when I do it. So, google it. And read thru the t&c and the faq's.

 

What good would it do to buy gift card on board and use for the cruise they are on? :confused:

 

If you explained any benefit to it, I did not understand.

 

[regnig]

So, I'll start with a little back story.

My family of five is booked on Epic for 22 days in the Haven. We are due to sail in a month. ....................

........................

Along with the OBC was a notation that there is a max purchase of $1000 OBC per reservation. That notation apparently hit the website (and the call centre) Jan 21.

Here's my question.... If we purchased OBC in December and again prior to Jan 21st, is NCL obligated to honour that purchase?

 

If there are 5 of you booked does that not mean that you have 5 reservations and therefore shouldn't you be able to have $1000 OBC per person?

[Cruisercl]

That does not make it right; ethical or good business practice.

 

Mike

 

Agree!!! No pun intended but with NCL, those 'ships' (make it right, ethical or good business practice) sailed quite awhile ago. :rolleyes:

Haven't seen them lately.

 

JMO and experience.

 

Happy cruising all!!! :)

[cjcruises]

If there are 5 of you booked does that not mean that you have 5 reservations and therefore shouldn't you be able to have $1000 OBC per person?

 

Nope. It's one reservation. The fact that there are five of us onboard for 22 days might be reason enough for them to not want to limit us to $1000. I will be spending a WHOLE lot less onboard now.

[casofilia]

If there are 5 of you booked does that not mean that you have 5 reservations and therefore shouldn't you be able to have $1000 OBC per person?

 

Only 1 Reservation Number I presume so only 1 reservation. So only 1 lot of $1000.

 

Mike

[Canagirl]

I think the fair thing would be to refund any unused OBC at the rate purchased. Obviously OBC is meant to be used onboard and those cashing out large amounts have taken that away from others.

 

That's not to say I like the rate. There are other lines that give discounted OBC still. I know I won't sail until I find a deal or the dollar gets better. I prefer cruising, but I can go to an all inclusive for significantly less than a cruise and will do so. With the dollar the way it is and cruise pricing the way it is, cruises are too expensive for me to justify it. I don't think most would be happy to pay 40% or more on top of the price, but that is the dollar right now. That doesn't change the fact that I feel a loophole was exploited and ruined it for others that really wanted OBC.

 

It won't be an issue much longer as their rates have gone way up. Anyone who decides to sail with NCL now and book in Cdn won't get great rates.

 

In Canada, if there is a pricing error on the vendor's part, they are required to honour it. (Possibly not online, but definitely in bricks and mortar stores.) in fact, if a grocery store prices an item incorrectly, they have to give it to you free (if under $10) or reduce the price by $10. Even when I worked retail as a student, we have to be VERY careful with pricing and signage because of the customers' rights and the vendor's responsibility and obligation to advertise prices correctly. .

 

That is only partially correct. Excluding Quebec (where there are stronger customer protection laws) no vendor has to honour a price error.

 

What you are referring to is the Scanner Price Accuracy VOLUNTARY Code. Merchants decide whether or not they want to participate. It is completely voluntary and there are a number of rules. But yes, if a merchant voluntarily participates, there are refunds up to $10 for the first item if a price scans differently than posted. Any time this has happened to me, I have had to request it, since they have never offered it if I wasn't aware of the policy.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Canagirl

[Love my butler]

So, I'll start with a little back story.

My family of five is booked on Epic for 22 days in the Haven. We are due to sail in a month.

In Dec I bought $2000 OBC as the Cdn dollar was tanking and we had a good rate locked in with NCL. Shortly after, posts began popping up on CC, stating that pre purchased OBC over $1000 was being refunded shortly before departure.

Because of the length of our cruise, we wanted to purchase more OBC. So a few weeks ago, I called NCL and asked if I was able to do so, citing the comments and info I had found on Cruise Critic. The rep assured me that there was no limit, but escalated my call to a supervisor who, in turn, reported that there was no limit up to $5000. Anything over $5000 required approval from higher up as there were concerns about money laundering. With that information in hand, I bought an additional $2000 OBC.

Tonight, while trying to resolve another issue regarding Thermal Suite passes, we noticed on My NCL that our OBC (well, most of it) was finally showing up on screen. Along with the OBC was a notation that there is a max purchase of $1000 OBC per reservation. That notation apparently hit the website (and the call centre) Jan 21.

Here's my question.... If we purchased OBC in December and again prior to Jan 21st, is NCL obligated to honour that purchase?

 

Your first mistake was believing anything a phone rep or the 'supervisor' told you. A monkey randomly pecking at a typewriter is usually more accurate with any question you might have.

 

Truly sad that NCL refuses to train shoreside personnel with accurate information.

[cjcruises]

I think the fair thing would be to refund any unused OBC at the rate purchased. Obviously OBC is meant to be used onboard and those cashing out large amounts have taken that away from others.

 

That's not to say I like the rate. There are other lines that give discounted OBC still. I know I won't sail until I find a deal or the dollar gets better. I prefer cruising, but I can go to an all inclusive for significantly less than a cruise and will do so. With the dollar the way it is and cruise pricing the way it is, cruises are too expensive for me to justify it. I don't think most would be happy to pay 40% or more on top of the price, but that is the dollar right now. That doesn't change the fact that I feel a loophole was exploited and ruined it for others that really wanted OBC.

 

It won't be an issue much longer as their rates have gone way up. Anyone who decides to sail with NCL now and book in Cdn won't get great rates.

 

 

 

That is only partially correct. Excluding Quebec (where there are stronger customer protection laws) no vendor has to honour a price error.

 

What you are referring to is the Scanner Price Accuracy VOLUNTARY Code. Merchants decide whether or not they want to participate. It is completely voluntary and there are a number of rules. But yes, if a merchant voluntarily participates, there are refunds up to $10 for the first item if a price scans differently than posted. Any time this has happened to me, I have had to request it, since they have never offered it if I wasn't aware of the policy.

 

That is exactly the code to which I am referring and yes it is voluntary. Outside of that code, though, there are consumer protections - or there used to be (I haven't worked I retail in about 20 years). I am very familiar with that policy, having seen it on Marketplace several years ago. Toys R Us is a signatory, but their own head office didn't seem to realize it, lol. After a long battle I got satisfaction from them, but I never shopped with them again. I'm a fiercely loyal customer, until a business acts unethically or undertakes practices that I find offensive. At that point, they lose my business forever. You don't even want to know how long I have boycotted Calvin Klein, lol. All because of questionable ads they ran when I was a university student.

[cjcruises]

Your first mistake was believing anything a phone rep or the 'supervisor' told you. A monkey randomly pecking at a typewriter is usually more accurate with any question you might have.

 

Truly sad that NCL refuses to train shoreside personnel with accurate information.

 

So doesn't NCL bear any responsibility to make sure their employees are adequately trained and informed? Again, one would think they have a duty to provide accurate information to their customer. It's been a long time since I took a commercial law course, but isn't there some fiduciary responsibility on the part of NCL? As the front line source of communication between consumer and the business, one would think that responsibility carries forth to ensuring that PCCs and supervisors are able to obtain and in turn provide accurate information to their customers.

Edited February 3, 2016 by cjcruises

[funpig]

I am curious how OBC is normally refunded at the end of the trip. I know if you get OBC as promotion, you use it or lose it (we bought a few things but tipped the unused balance to our room steward). If you buy OBC and do not use all of it, does NCL refund any unpaid balance, and in what currency, CAD or USD?

 

In our cruise last year, i know that we could make pre-cruise purchases thru NCL using the NCL exchange of $1.11 which was a great deal when the real world exchange was about $1.25. Huge savings. Now if you could buy $8,000 to $10,000 using the NCL rate, not use the OBC on the trip and then get the refund in USD, you Would get a huge windfall from this. If true, this was very sharp on the OP's part and could have realy cost NCL a lot of money.

 

I do not say that that was the OP's intent. I was just wondering if it could be done. It may well be that the OP saw a good deal and wanted to take advantage because he was going to spend the money anyways so why not at the best available rate.

 

Now that the CAD is really dropping, NCL obviously does not want to suffer a huge loss on the exchange so has reversed the tranactions. Anyways, if NCL unilaterally cancelled the OBC and refunded the original CAD to the OP, what did the OP lose? For example, he exchanged CAD$10,000 and got back the same amount. What can he sue for? The OBC was set up to make it easier for cruisers to spend money and NCL offered a generous exchange rate to Canadian customers. It was not intended to be a money maker for Canadians or a major money loser for NCL.

 

In any event, even if there is a right to claim against NCL for the lost windfall in the exchange, what can the OP do? Hire a lawyer and start a lawsuit. I hope the money difference will justify the legal costs.

Edited February 3, 2016 by funpig

[Love my butler]

So doesn't NCL bear any responsibility to make sure their employees are adequately trained and informed? Again, one would think they have a duty to provide accurate information to their customer. It's been a long time since I took a commercial law course, but isn't there some fiduciary responsibility on the part of NCL? As the front line source of communication between consumer and the business, one would think that responsibility carries forth to ensuring that PCCs and supervisors are able to obtain and in turn provide accurate information to their customers.

 

You would think but NCL has been getting away with this for a long time. I think most of the damage is considered 'petty' so any legal action would not get anywhere unless it was a class action type of situation. NCL relies on people having short memories. They will delay, delay, delay when you attempt to rectify things shoreside after a cruise. The vast majority of people just give up because it isn't worth the time or stress. NCL banks on this strategy.

[Kingofwylietx]

To compound what LMB said about a class action suit...

 

© Guest Waives Right to Class Action Relief: THIS CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR THE EXCLUSIVE

RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES THROUGH INDIVIDUAL LEGAL ACTION ON GUEST'S OWN BEHALF

INSTEAD OF THROUGH ANY CLASS ACTION. EVEN IF THE APPLICABLE LAW PROVIDES

OTHERWISE, GUEST AGREES THAT ANY ARBITRATION OR LAWSUIT AGAINST CARRIER

WHATSOEVER SHALL BE LITIGATED BY GUEST INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF ANY

11/2015

CLASS OR AS PART OF A CLASS ACTION, AND GUEST EXPRESSLY AGREES TO WAIVE ANY

LAW ENTITLING GUEST TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION. IF GUEST'S CLAIM IS SUBJECT

TO ARBITRATION UNDER SECTION 10(b) ABOVE, THE ARBITRATOR SHALL HAVE NO

AUTHORITY TO ARBITRATE CLAIMS ON A CLASS ACTION BASIS. GUEST AGREES THAT THIS

SECTION SHALL NOT BE SEVERABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FROM THE ARBITRATION

CLAUSE SET FORTH IN SECTION 10(b) ABOVE, AND IF FOR ANY REASON THIS CLASS ACTION

WAIVER IS UNENFORCEABLE AS TO ANY PARTICULAR CLAIM, THEN AND ONLY THEN SUCH

CLAIM SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION.

 

Now that is clarified, one would want to read about OTHER SUITS and arbitration. This is all included in the terms & conditions.

[funpig]

Update to my post #61 above, i just read the recent posts on: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2215730&page=19

 

It does appear that refunds were being made in USD, so there was a real opportunity to make a windfall. It appears that NCL is adjusting their exchange rates more frequently to prevent any abuse.

[cjcruises]

You would think but NCL has been getting away with this for a long time. I think most of the damage is considered 'petty' so any legal action would not get anywhere unless it was a class action type of situation. NCL relies on people having short memories. They will delay, delay, delay when you attempt to rectify things shoreside after a cruise. The vast majority of people just give up because it isn't worth the time or stress. NCL banks on this strategy.

 

Unfortunately for them I have. Very long memory and I'm a stubborn momma!

 

Here's a fun update: NCL finally called DH back a little while ago and left a voicemail. We now yet ANOTHER explanation as to what has happened with OBC. The new story is that it was "a technical error" which allowed them to process $4000 in OBC.

 

So, just for kicks, let's review the stories we have been told.... 1) Dec. 27: There is no limit to the amt of OBC one can pre-purchase. 2) mid-January: rep and supervisor check with higher ups and are told there is no limit in OBC up to $5000, the reason being money laundering concerns. Even then, about s over $5000 may be possible, but are subject to approval. 3) Jan 31st: phone rep verifies that full OBC is on account and confirms that it should not be a problem.

4) Feb 2:there is a new policy effective Jan 21, and everyone is being rolled back to $1000 OBC regardless of when it was purchased, the length on one's cruise, or the number of people in the party. 5) Feb 3rd, voicemail indicating technical errors are to blame for allowing the purchase of OBC exceeding $1000.

 

Gee, I think my class of firsties does a better job at making up stories and keeping their facts straight. :rolleyes:

 

At what point do Cdn customers band together to contact the BBB and the media? I feel like all potential Cdn passengers have the right to know the type of company they might be dealing with... It's clearly one which doesn't care to inform front line staff in order to assist customers in making informed decisions!

[casofilia]

No wonder that NCL doesn't know whether it is Arthur or Martha!!

 

My bank, the BMO, is quoting Buy/Sell rates of 1.3466 and 1.4134 so the median is 1.38. I bet this is a great change from yesterday!!

 

Mike

[NLH Arizona]

What are the other cruise lines policies with regard to the exchange rates? Is NCL the only line where folks were profiting off their OBC?

[Moby0215]

Unfortunately for them I have. Very long memory and I'm a stubborn momma!

 

 

 

Here's a fun update: NCL finally called DH back a little while ago and left a voicemail. We now yet ANOTHER explanation as to what has happened with OBC. The new story is that it was "a technical error" which allowed them to process $4000 in OBC.

 

 

 

So, just for kicks, let's review the stories we have been told.... 1) Dec. 27: There is no limit to the amt of OBC one can pre-purchase. 2) mid-January: rep and supervisor check with higher ups and are told there is no limit in OBC up to $5000, the reason being money laundering concerns. Even then, about s over $5000 may be possible, but are subject to approval. 3) Jan 31st: phone rep verifies that full OBC is on account and confirms that it should not be a problem.

 

4) Feb 2:there is a new policy effective Jan 21, and everyone is being rolled back to $1000 OBC regardless of when it was purchased, the length on one's cruise, or the number of people in the party. 5) Feb 3rd, voicemail indicating technical errors are to blame for allowing the purchase of OBC exceeding $1000.

 

 

 

Gee, I think my class of firsties does a better job at making up stories and keeping their facts straight. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

At what point do Cdn customers band together to contact the BBB and the media? I feel like all potential Cdn passengers have the right to know the type of company they might be dealing with... It's clearly one which doesn't care to inform front line staff in order to assist customers in making informed decisions!

 

 

Why does it matter the stories you were told? It boils down to they originally let you purchase a large amount and then changed the policy to limit the amount to $1000. They then refunded or will refund your money. This is surely within their right and there is nothing you can do about it. I can understand the disappointment but I wouldn't let it ruin you cruise or cause you any added stress.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[abe3]

Your first mistake was believing anything a phone rep or the 'supervisor' told you. A monkey randomly pecking at a typewriter is usually more accurate with any question you might have.

 

 

 

Truly sad that NCL refuses to train shoreside personnel with accurate information.

 

 

How about the person asking the question misunderstanding what they were told. That happens all too often too.

 

Don't just keep blaming NCL when it could be the customer.

[nangirl79]

They refund in Canadian funds. They only refund in US funds if you have OBC left over not spent after the cruise. I have been through all of this myself. We were on the jan 23-30th Escape cruise and many upset people who only found out once on board. I got my refund finally on jan 29 in Canadian funds.

[Kingofwylietx]

I also question that they allow the purchase and then hold the money as long as possible (in some cases until after the cruise has been completed). At least credit people back their funds in a timely mannerso they can make arrangements with their banks prior to travel. This smacks of bait and switch..

 

While this doesn't qualify as bait and switch.....

 

I completely agree with you that your funds should be returned promptly. In this age, today, they could refund you immediately if they wanted to do it. They shouldn't hang on to your money once it is clear that the money should be returned. There is no valid excuse for them holding your funds.

[sfaaa]

While this doesn't qualify as bait and switch.....

 

I completely agree with you that your funds should be returned promptly. In this age, today, they could refund you immediately if they wanted to do it. They shouldn't hang on to your money once it is clear that the money should be returned. There is no valid excuse for them holding your funds.

 

Yes, I would agree as well.