Phony Formalism

[Ma Bell]

Read under casual dining boulevard and dress codes.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/75017138/75047595MTJxJN#

[Lifes2short]

I am the most "tolerant" person you will meet when it comes to people's thoughts and opinions. I just think it's impolite to not do what is requested. If and when the day comes that Celebrity decides change is inevitable, I'll have to decide if it will still be my cruiseline of choice. I don't think it's condescending to comply with the dress code. I would think it may be a little condescending to think that the cruiseline needs to change it's policies just because I don't like them.

 

Thank goodness there are lots of choices in our lives so we can all express our opinions by the choices we make.:)

Oh goodness..the "you" was just a quote in general. I really appreciate your line, I would think it may be a little condescending to think that the cruise line needs to change it's policies just because I don't like them.

That truly, speaks of tolerance. Again, you're correct... Thank goodness we can all express our opinions by the choices we make. (shorter version)

Thanks for you input.

Happy Sailings :)

[tbelian]

Fact: in my five Celebrity cruises I've seen almost no one ignoring at least the spirit of the dressy venue.

 

Also true for our 8 cruises. So I wonder, where is this big 'change' that is being referred to in the context of 'change is good'?

 

The majority speaks, and so does the minority. In my opinion, the majority, so far, have spoken louder (not HERE on CC, but on the ship, where it really counts).

[Lifes2short]

Are you saying that tolerance of thinking differently is the same as tolerance of dressing differently?

 

If there is a posting that the dress code for tonight is "FORMAL" then it is OK to think differently and that the posting is meant only for others. Am I now intolerant because I think that all people know what FORMAL means but they THINK differently than I do? When the speed limit is posted and others think differently, am I now intolerant of speeders?

 

Change does occur but it does not mean that we have to tolerate it without comment. There is a dumbing down, a devolution in social graces here that is impossible to control but which I refuse to be part of. We follow the lemming crowd we prefer. I prefer my fantasy world, a world with accepable rules, a world with people who follow those rules because it leads to a better experience for all. I have no desire to be part of the group who believes that rules are only for others and then scream that others are intolerant of their (mis)behaviour.

Whoa....slow down. I'm not implying anything. I'm just giving a personal opinion. I truly don't want to see this forum get heated-up and shut down. So I'm going to let this one go and move on. Do what you feel you need to do. I'm not telling anyone what they should/shouldn't do. That's their call not mine....

Happy Sailings :)

[DonLou]

C'mon Don, admit it. You saw the light all right. I'm guessing her name is Lou! You DO know that posts like yours are ruining it for some of the other guys here, don't you?:D

Canderson, I truly hope your life is as thoroughly miserable as mine!:D :D

I agree it sure shows a lack of consideration when you are "intolerant" of how other people dress/think. Change is uncomfortable but inevitable.

 

It is not Your cruise. It is not My cruise. It is OUR cruise. We are bound together in a closed society living under arbitrary and temporary rules set down by the cruise line. When we paid for the cruise, we sort of agreed to these terms.

 

When I took my first cruise last century (I like using that phrase because it gives me a phony air of importance), I did not “dress up” for formal night. I didn’t feel too bad, since there were a lot of others dressed like me or worse. It was my first experience and there was no CC board around or anything like that to give me a clue about expectations. On subsequent cruises, I’ve adjusted and changed my style (at times painful) to conform more to the rules stipulated/recommended by the cruise company. And it has turned into one of the highlights I look forward to when cruising. To quote you (out of context perhaps) “Change is uncomfortable but inevitable.”

 

P.S. Lifes2Short, I use that phrase on my grandkids all the time. Especially when they ask me why they have to do their homework or clean up their room.;)

[albertiger]

the part of this whole discussion i CANNOT understand is: if a casual option is offered on a formal/semiformal night, how on earth do you GET there and BACK without breaking the holy dress code? and afterward you are sent to a corner (cabin) not to emerge for the remainder of the evening?

if the issuer of these guidelines truly is serious about enforcing their rules, no casual option should be offered for these nights! (like thats gonna happen!)

so, it boils down to Party A, the Ritzy-Glitzys are going to dress to the nines.

Party B, the Downtroddens will wear their overalls and Party C, XYZ Cruise Line will do absolutely nothing! :eek:

[canderson]

Read under casual dining boulevard and dress codes.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/75017138/75047595MTJxJN#

I particularly like the "We kindly ask for your cooperation and consideration for your fellow guests". On my next comment card, I may suggest that Celebrity quit being so tactful in that section!:p

 

That said, they certainly don't leave much to the imagination with their "Following are the required modes of attire ..." (emphasis theirs), do they?

[Lifes2short]

Canderson, I truly hope your life is as thoroughly miserable as mine!:D :D

 

 

It is not Your cruise. It is not My cruise. It is OUR cruise. We are bound together in a closed society living under arbitrary and temporary rules set down by the cruise line. When we paid for the cruise, we sort of agreed to these terms.

 

When I took my first cruise last century (I like using that phrase because it gives me a phony air of importance), I did not “dress up” for formal night. I didn’t feel too bad, since there were a lot of others dressed like me or worse. It was my first experience and there was no CC board around or anything like that to give me a clue about expectations. On subsequent cruises, I’ve adjusted and changed my style (at times painful) to conform more to the rules stipulated/recommended by the cruise company. And it has turned into one of the highlights I look forward to when cruising. To quote you (out of context perhaps) “Change is uncomfortable but inevitable.”

 

P.S. Lifes2Short, I use that phrase on my grandkids all the time. Especially when they ask me why they have to do their homework or clean up their room.;)

Forgive me for being so obtuse.(now that's a fancy word) I'm not quite following your comments. I don't think I said it was my cruise or anyone else's unless my memory has failed me?(wouldn't be the first time ;) ) You stated it was not mine, yours, but our cruise. I'm not quite sure what that had to do w/change is uncomfortable but inevitable. Please allow me to rephrase, "can be uncomfortable"(not always happy w/it myself) but it's still inevitable. Heck, I don't always like the inevitable. Example: paying taxes. It's getting to be that time of year again.(ugh)But the inevitable is I pay, I pay, or off to jail I go. That doesn't look quite as appealing to me at my age. So, again I will pay good ole Uncle Sam. I don't like it but it's inevitable. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Also, I hope using the phrase Lifes2short works on your grandkids because it still isn't working w/my teenagers.

Happy Sailings DonLou!:)

[ocngypz]

It really isn't a matter of compromising on dress, it is a matter of the passenger finding a cruiseline which is the best match for their personal preferences.

 

Celebrity offers a traditional cruise experience in contemporary surroundings.

TRADITIONAL is the operative word. This includes two fixed dinner seatings and formal, informal and casual dress in the evenings after 6pm. This is Celebrity.... now they do offer an alternate for those who don't wish to follow the cruiseline's policy.... and that is the Lido Deck where it is always casual. But, for heaven's sake... why would anyone who didn't enjoy a traditional cruise experience, book the line in the first place???

 

I have clients who want to cruise with Celebrity, but they are more free-style type of cruisers. I've told them repeatedly, it is not a good match.. they want more flexibility.. and despite their wanting to experience the food, service and ambience of Celebrity, they are going to have to reign in their personal "expressions", if they wish to book. Needless to say, they still have not sailed with Celebrity.. and I continue to book them on lines which are a better match for them. And they are happy.

 

 

I do not think the shorter sailings Celebrity has been offering are indicative of the cruiseline as a whole. Nor do I think they are indicative of the "usual and customary" Celebrity passenger. No slamming here........but I sold hundreds of these short sailings to people who hadn't cruised before let alone had a clue Celebrity even existed until their email box received one of my 'deals'. It was merely an opportunity for them to vacation at a very competitive rate.

 

Each cruiseline has it's own "style".... just fine one which best matches your own.

[Lifes2short]

Read under casual dining boulevard and dress codes.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/75017138/75047595MTJxJN#

So have they changed or are they in the process of changing the wording from required to cooperation/consideration like we saw on the Mercury, and your listed website posting, with all their ships? Interesting website Ma. Thanks for sharing it w/us. :)

[canderson]

the part of this whole discussion i CANNOT understand is: if a casual option is offered on a formal/semiformal night, how on earth do you GET there and BACK without breaking the holy dress code? and afterward you are sent to a corner (cabin) not to emerge for the remainder of the evening? :eek:

It's questions like that that nearly make me wish Celebrity would eliminate this concession to reality and simply get rid of the casual dining option. My grandson has just recently gotten into this mode of questioning the tough things in his life -- but then, he's my grandson.

 

Over the years, Celebrity has with their actual practice made it clear where the more "sensitive" areas of the ship are in this regard. Of COURSE it is understood that you'll need to traverse from cabin to the casual dining area in your casual dining clothes. Further, I have never heard of anyone who has been approached by the ship's staff about dress in the pool area, 10 aft or the Spa Grill (on M-Class), or similar areas.

 

The dining areas (ex. casual dining area), entertainment areas (ex. 10 aft) and the casino seem to be those of particular interest in this regard. Elsewhere, it seems that everyone is prepared to cut you some slack.

[canderson]

 

I have clients who want to cruise with Celebrity, but they are more free-style type of cruisers. I've told them repeatedly, it is not a good match.. they want more flexibility.. and despite their wanting to experience the food, service and ambience of Celebrity, they are going to have to reign in their personal "expressions", if they wish to book. Needless to say, they still have not sailed with Celebrity.. and I continue to book them on lines which are a better match for them. And they are happy.

Honestly, I really do think that compared to other lines, either Celebrity is doing an outstanding marketing job, a really great onboard job (the food and service you mention), or both. Why else would the square pegs keep repeatedly booking the round hole? I'm guessing that the square pegs really do think that the food and service is better than the alternatives. Celebrity certainly isn't the cheapest of the lines, and there are lots of places to go for more or less equivalent itineraries.

 

Anyway, thank you for your efforts to counsel and match. We have too many TA's who either don't understand the distinctions themselves or don't bother to try to find out what kind of cruise would best work for a customer.... just "order takers".

[canderson]

Canderson, I truly hope your life is as thoroughly miserable as mine!:D :D

Alas, probably less so. I didn't need to have my arm twisted!

 

So did I get it right? Is that good looker on the right side of the avatar "Lou", and will we ever hear from her perspective about how she talked you into the "black straightjacket"?;) The other half of our duo is a bit of a Luddite -- refuses to touch the keyboard for fear something awful will happen.

[DonLou]

Forgive me for being so obtuse.(now that's a fancy word) I'm not quite following your comments. I don't think I said it was my cruise or anyone else's unless my memory has failed me?(wouldn't be the first time ;) ) You stated it was not mine, yours, but our cruise. I'm not quite sure what that had to do w/change is uncomfortable but inevitable. Please allow me to rephrase, "can be uncomfortable"(not always happy w/it myself) but it's still inevitable. Heck, I don't always like the inevitable. Example: paying taxes. It's getting to be that time of year again.(ugh)But the inevitable is I pay, I pay, or off to jail I go. That doesn't look quite as appealing to me at my age. So, again I will pay good ole Uncle Sam. I don't like it but it's inevitable. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Also, I hope using the phrase Lifes2short works on your grandkids because it still isn't working w/my teenagers.

Happy Sailings DonLou!:)

 

My Apologies, Lifes2short. You're not being obtuse. I'm being too dense. :o To keep the post short I tossed out a lot of thoughts which should have been included to keep things clear. Here goes the explanation.

 

The OUR cruise comment is a general comment on the "intolerant of others" statement. It's meant to emphasize that we're all "in the same boat" :eek: (sorry!) --- A cruise with some particular rules that were agreed to beforehand.

 

And the last comment was not to Lifes2short (your name) but to the phrase "Change is uncomfortable but inevitable --- clean up your room.":eek:

[DonLou]

Alas, probably less so. I didn't need to have my arm twisted!

 

So did I get it right? Is that good looker on the right side of the avatar "Lou", and will we ever hear from her perspective about how she talked you into the "black straightjacket"?;) The other half of our duo is a bit of a Luddite -- refuses to touch the keyboard for fear something awful will happen.

 

LOL. Touche, Canderson. You have it all right except the part about how she talked me into the "tux". The correct phrase would be how she "refused to talk" to me until I wore it.

[WeBeCruisin']

the part of this whole discussion i CANNOT understand is: if a casual option is offered on a formal/semiformal night, how on earth do you GET there and BACK without breaking the holy dress code?

 

You leave your room in your casual clothes and walk down the hall to the end of the ship where the casual dining venue is located and you take the elevator up. To return to your room, you reverse the process. That way you don't have to go through the public areas. :)

 

Allen

[Ma Bell]

Thanks Allen,

I didn't have enough nerve to tell him that. I didn't want to appear to be condescending.;)

[Lifes2short]

My Apologies, Lifes2short. You're not being obtuse. I'm being too dense. :o To keep the post short I tossed out a lot of thoughts which should have been included to keep things clear. Here goes the explanation.

 

The OUR cruise comment is a general comment on the "intolerant of others" statement. It's meant to emphasize that we're all "in the same boat" :eek: (sorry!) --- A cruise with some particular rules that were agreed to beforehand.

 

And the last comment was not to Lifes2short (your name) but to the phrase "Change is uncomfortable but inevitable --- clean up your room.":eek:

Thanks for the clarification. I think I finally got it. Well almost, give me a few more days.(just kidding)

You were very clear in your follow-up. Now, is the comment to your grandchildren "Change is uncomfortable but inevitable" working? Because I'm still looking for that "magic phrase/wand." ;)

Maybe someday "we just might" find ourselves all on the same boat together.

"Happy Sailings" to you/your lovely wife. Lovely photo by the way. :)

[Ma Bell]

Oh well.:confused:

[Lifes2short]

Thanks Allen,

I didn't have enough nerve to tell him that. I didn't want to appear to be condescending.;)

I can only guess he appreciates the respect you gave him by not appearing as being "condescending." ;)

What a class act you are Ma Bell... ;)

Happy Sailings! :)

[canderson]

Thanks Allen,

I didn't have enough nerve to tell him that. I didn't want to appear to be condescending.;)

Condescending? Naw. Condescending would have been to provide a link to the ships' deck plans on Celebrity's web site!;)

[Ma Bell]

You both have me LOL.

[caviargal]

CG

With you being a TA do you feel that Celeb. (owned by Royal)may have to lower costs and make adjustments w/larger ships/more amenities/activities etc. to keep their ships full?

Every time I see a Carnival commercial they state their the largest cruise line afloat. Which lines sell out the most and do you think other lines like Celeb. take notice and could possibly be forced to make the above mentioned changes to stay in business?

 

Actually, X has been very slow to expand and I have always viewed this a positive. I think the smaller scale ships are in keeping with their image and reputation. They have less berths to fill and I hope there are always cruise passengers who are looking for a line like X who fills a gap between luxury and true mass market. My concern is that X will cause themselves to become like everyone else by allowing a lowering of the standards that I believe has contributed greatly to their success. Then they will be scrambling to fill cabins like the rest.

 

IMHO, RCI has really lowered their standards in many areas, dress codes being one. They keep building bigger and bigger ships (which I personally dislike and would not choose for my own vacation) and many people really enjoy these floating convention hotels. I think the sheer size of these vessels has caused a lot of the lower prices we see, as these ships need to sail fairly full to make the profit margins the lines are after. The bulk of the profit is in all the extras these days, as most lines become less and less inclusive.

 

As far as Carnival, they are definitely the largest and they have a product that is apparently very popular. I think pricing and perceived value are the main reasons they keeps their ships full. For me, they are not a line I personally enjoy but they fill a large niche with their products.

[DonLou]

... Now, is the comment to your grandchildren "Change is uncomfortable but inevitable" working? Because I'm still looking for that "magic phrase/wand." :)

 

Of course it works. We're their grandparents! We're their relief from their overbearing, rule-enforcing, mean parents (our daughter and son-in-law). Grandparenting is just wonderful!:D

 

And thanks for the compliments. I think I'm all tapped out on this thread. See you at the next port...er, post.

[KevBew]

When we were on Infinity in Hawaii in '03 there were a number of people that were casual on formal nights and no one really made notice of it. My parents and I followed the request to adhere to formal policy but our table mates were casual to very casual on formal nights. If you want to go formal, go for it. If you feel it's your vacation and no way are you going to dress formal, more power to ya. I do feel it is your time to enjoy yourself and if you want to go casual it isn't going to have any effect on me in any way. HAVE FUN!