Phony Formalism

[hermang]

I must have missed the comment about flogging?

 

Could you requote it here for reference please?

"Hopefully you will never be asked to leave the dining room or show room. It might be kind of embarrassing. There's no way you would prevail in a lawsuit...I'm sure you know that" So says MA Bell. Please show me where in the cruise contract that is says if you don't follow the so called " dress code" You will be asked to leave the dining room. The flogging seems to be more from the Cruise Critic Dress Up segment than from Celebrity so I am going to continue to buy into the notion that what Celebrity has implied is a suggested dress or what may be considered "appropriate" NOT mandated and if you fail to follow the "code" here are the consequences. I still fail to see why what I or anyone else wears do dinner for formal night or any other night should be any of your concern. If I want to embarass myself or if someone wants to dress in a certain manner - so what. People in Mexico are dying and you are arguing what is appropriate dress for formal night. I doubt there will be many formal nights in Cozumel or cancun for a while. Instead of criticizing people who are nonconformists - make a donation to Hurricane relief - I did

[cruising with marti]

hermang

 

There is a huge difference between being a non conformast, and just plain disregarding acceptable social behavior.

 

And your remarks about people in Mexico, is way out of line. After all, in case you forgot this is a cruise critic board, not a relief agency. If you are that concerned about the relief efforts for the unfortunate folks in the world that are suffering because of natural disasters, I would suggest you spend your time elsewhere, and not on these boards where the subject is cruising:cool:

 

 

Phil

[usha]

I still fail to see why what I or anyone else wears do dinner for formal night or any other night should be any of your concern. If I want to embarass myself or if someone wants to dress in a certain manner - so what.

 

I guess the real question is: When you embarrass yourself, do you realize you've embarrassed yourself? Aren't you just a little embarrassed for having started this whole silly thread?

[excitedofharpenden]

hermang

And your remarks about people in Mexico, is way out of line. After all, in case you forgot this is a cruise critic board, not a relief agency. If you are that concerned about the relief efforts for the unfortunate folks in the world that are suffering because of natural disasters, I would suggest you spend your time elsewhere, and not on these boards where the subject is cruising:cool:

 

 

Phil

Yep, that says it for me too. We can bring in all sorts of examples of why not to talk about subjects on Cruise Critic, but it leads us nowhere. The subject here is dress code and I agree with the others who are simply saying the Cruisline ask that you dress in a certain way, so why the argument?

 

Phil

[Ma Bell]

"Hopefully you will never be asked to leave the dining room or show room. It might be kind of embarrassing. There's no way you would prevail in a lawsuit...I'm sure you know that" So says MA Bell. Please show me where in the cruise contract that is says if you don't follow the so called " dress code" You will be asked to leave the dining room. The flogging seems to be more from the Cruise Critic Dress Up segment than from Celebrity so I am going to continue to buy into the notion that what Celebrity has implied is a suggested dress or what may be considered "appropriate" NOT mandated and if you fail to follow the "code" here are the consequences. I still fail to see why what I or anyone else wears do dinner for formal night or any other night should be any of your concern. If I want to embarass myself or if someone wants to dress in a certain manner - so what. People in Mexico are dying and you are arguing what is appropriate dress for formal night. I doubt there will be many formal nights in Cozumel or cancun for a while. Instead of criticizing people who are nonconformists - make a donation to Hurricane relief - I did

 

Herman,

 

If it makes you feel better to talk about contributing to hurricane relief...be my guest. It has nothing to do with the subject...which by the way you started. If you don't give a hoot about this why are you so involved in even talking about it. You should just do your thing and not bother discussing it. I doubt if anyone cares if you wear purple feathers in your hair. I'm going to say this once more. The CRUISELINE sets the standards, not the people on these boards. If you don't want to follow them don't. You don't need to convince anyone else except yourself.

[excitedofharpenden]

Sorry, I realised I already said the last bit of my post before. Going round in circles a bit like these threads:rolleyes:

 

Phil

[tbelian]

What a bunch of hooeey.

 

Time to take a breath from this one ... because, as you know, there will be another 'dress code' thread in ....

 

Ummm

 

About 1 day?

 

1 hour?

 

5 minutes?

 

Same ol' Same ol.

[C 2 C]

Instead of criticizing people who are nonconformists - make a donation to Hurricane relief - I did

 

I admire a true humanitarian.. in the search for lasting world peace... at least on this thread. To follow your rationale... I think it would be wonderful if you were to donate your entire cruise ticket to various relief agencies. The money one saves by not buying appropriate clothing would find a better home...shall we start a list?:rolleyes:

 

Don't start on the guilt trips....

 

The argument reminds me of a quote from a Detroit area weatherman....

 

That's where the people live:

who buy the things they don't need,

with the money they don't have,

to impress the people they don't like...

 

Rephrase it anyway you want.

 

No-one will win this argument because you are dealing with different mind sets..

 

I will continue to cruise on the line that sets certain standards, that attracts certain people who share common values; while at the same time I can ignore all those with a different set of values, and those who ignore suggestions meant only for others...the ships are large enough.

It's time to move on.

[tbelian]

The CRUISELINE sets the standards, not the people on these boards. If you don't want to follow them don't.

 

Amen Ma, Amen!

 

We don't make the rules, we just follow em (or don't follow em as the case may be). If you really have a position AGAINST any form of dress code, why not take it up with the cruise line directly instead of here?

 

(why?, because you know THEY ARE NOT LISTENING to you).

[Cruiser31]

This post is typical of the kind which are so frustrating and irritating. You just want to grab this type of person and shake some sense into them.

 

Several of these types of posts have boasted about how they're in their 60s and retired and are therefore entitled to do anything they want. I'm in that demographic and' date=' unfortunately, there is a very, very sad tendency for people, as they get older, to become more and more inflexible and narrow-minded and self-centered. For the above poster and so many others in my age group, it becomes solely about "me, me, me" and they are so very rude, obnoxious and irritating about it. And, although I have lived in New York and New Jersey, an inordinate number of these "me, me, me" people are from that area. That's sad, too.

 

I've tried not to respond to these types of posts lately, but the arrogance, self-centeredness, and boorishness of Sportsguy7 and his rude insults to people who have the consideration to follow the "appropriate" dress code and his characterization of them as "stuffed shirts" and snobs is pathetic. It makes me sick to my stomach. I feel pity for people like him, but I'm also so very embarrassed that so many Americans are becoming like Sportsguy7. If there's a bright side, I guess that it's that, fortunately, only about five per cent of them cruise.:(

 

Allen[/quote']

It's not about 'being 60 and being entitled to doing anything we want'. It's about wanting to take a relaxing vacation and wanting to be comfortable in what I am wearing. Yes, after working for years and wearing uncomfortable clothes for years, then YES, I want to be comfortable while I am on vacation. I have worked extremely hard and am entitled to be comfortable and wear what I want to wear.

Also, its not about being 'inflexible and narrow-minded and self-centered'; it's the people who feel that being dressed formally who are indeed self-centered. It's laughable that people walk around these cruise ships with their noses in the air, soley because they are in a tux. If you don't like what someone is wearing, DON'T LOOK AT THEM. Think about it ....you are on a cruise! We are not at a wedding and we are not at a funeral. We are on vacation!! It's sad that people feel that wearing a tux is going to make their vacation more enjoyable. If it makes you feel better to wear a tux, then you have the problem.

Furthermore, how dare you say a majority of the 'me, me, me' people are from New Jersey and from New York? Now you are stereotyping both states? You are the one who should be pitied for making such a stupid and insensitive remark. I, too, live in this area, have worked and lived here my entire life and am proud to be from here. New Yorkers have dealt with a lot and it is the best city in the country. I hold my head high and proud to be associated with this fine city. It's your narrowmindedness that give New Yorkers a bad name.

If I want my cruise to be about ME, then so be it. After all, it is my vacation and I am entitled to wear what I want and do what I want. Silly me, it's only MY vacation and I paid for it, but what was I thinking? How silly am I to want it to be about ME?

You should be pitied for being so ignorant.....not anyone else.

[tbelian]

It's really striking me as quite coincidental that the anti dress code people with the very sharp tongues (read in this case volatile words to type), are recently joined cruise critic members with few posts.

 

I know, I know, the newbie defense, or the lurker defense, but still, it makes (me at least) go 'hmmmmm'..

 

Say whatcha want. Wear whatcha want. This is only a message board. Not real life. I think those that have cruised on Celebrity (more than once even), know that the 'pro' dressers outweigh the 'con' dressers by a wide margin. That's likely the way it will continue to be, on board, for quite a while.

 

Those with chips on their shoulders about 'my vacation' , also like to run around sticking their fingers in fans claiming it doesn't hurt them at all.

[Ma Bell]

Cruiser 31,

 

You just don't get it. You have chosen a vacation that includes dressing up. You didn't choose a beach resort. People don't have their noses in the air if they are following the dress code. They are doing what is requested. Why is this so difficult for some to understand. You are the one who is resentful. No one really cares if you get dressed up or not. You should all write to Celebrity and complain if you don't like the program. If not, just do your thing and stop trying to justify it.

[cruising with marti]

Cruiser 31

 

You use the word "entitled" well the cruise lines are certainly "entitled" to set the dress codes any way that they please, and yes you are "entitled" to ignore them, and I am entitled to regard you with disdain. I don't care how you dress or not dress, I will just walk by you, wearing my tux and nose in the air. and thinking, Gosh another non conformist, sure wish I was "entitled" to be one of you.:D

 

 

Phil

[Gimpster]

"... am entitled to be comfortable and wear what I want to wear."

 

Yes, you certainly are. And I'm 'entitled' to wear my tux without enduring condescension by those who choose to ignore the requested attire guidelines, and perceive themselves to be my betters.

[Cruiser31]

It's really striking me as quite coincidental that the anti dress code people with the very sharp tongues (read in this case volatile words to type), are recently joined cruise critic members with few posts.

 

I know, I know, the newbie defense, or the lurker defense, but still, it makes (me at least) go 'hmmmmm'..

 

Say whatcha want. Wear whatcha want. This is only a message board. Not real life. I think those that have cruised on Celebrity (more than once even), know that the 'pro' dressers outweigh the 'con' dressers by a wide margin. That's likely the way it will continue to be, on board, for quite a while.

 

Those with chips on their shoulders about 'my vacation' , also like to run around sticking their fingers in fans claiming it doesn't hurt them at all.

I only recently found out about this board, but had I known about it before, I wouldn't live by it, as you do, with your 1,000+ posts. I thought this thread was quite amusing and felt compelled to give my 2 cents. I could care less that I am not one of these 'experienced' board users with a lot of posts. I have better things to do than spend my whole day posting.

I have been on 10 cruises, so I am well aware of what people wear on formal nights. I will wear what I am comfortable with and if you have a problem, then so be it.

I guess I will see you in your tux while I am dressed casually and comfortably, in good taste.

[tbelian]

I only recently found out about this board, but had I known about it before, I wouldn't live by it, as you do, with your 1,000+ posts. I thought this thread was quite amusing and felt compelled to give my 2 cents.

 

'Go away little boy, your botherin me '.... w.c. fields.

 

2 cents? Perhaps you'd like your change?

 

There are many interesting threads in a 'quirky, kinda funky fun kind of way'.... how fortunate that this particular one piqued your curiosity (NOT!).

 

Don't go there with me.

 

And no, I won't see you on my cruise, because as I stated before, the odds are HIGHLY against it.

[cruising with marti]

I only recently found out about this board, but had I known about it before, I wouldn't live by it, as you do, with your 1,000+ posts. I thought this thread was quite amusing and felt compelled to give my 2 cents. I could care less that I am not one of these 'experienced' board users with a lot of posts. I have better things to do than spend my whole day posting.

I have been on 10 cruises, so I am well aware of what people wear on formal nights. I will wear what I am comfortable with and if you have a problem, then so be it.

I guess I will see you in your tux while I am dressed casually and comfortably, in good taste.

 

Sorry, you won"t be in "good taste" if you ignore the recomended guide lines spelled out very clearly by the cruise line, in fact It would be just the opposite, very poor taste.

 

And by the way , I am very comfortable wearing ithe appropriate clothing:)

 

 

Phil

[Danno]

I guess I will see you in your tux while I am dressed casually and comfortably, in good taste.

 

So which is it?? Casually or in good taste...it's not both.

[WeBeCruisin']

It's not about 'being 60 and being entitled to doing anything we want. It's about wanting to take a relaxing vacation and wanting to be comfortable in what I am wearing. Yes, after working for years and wearing uncomfortable clothes for years, then YES, I want to be comfortable while I am on vacation. I have worked extremely hard and am entitled to be comfortable and wear what I want to wear.

 

Cruiser 31, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. You're proving every point I made. You're saying you're in your 60s and you're also saying you're "entitled" to do whatever you want to, regardless of how it affects other people. If you insist on wearing "comfortable" clothes regardless of what the cruiseline expects you to do to dress appropiately, then take an "appropriate" vacation where you can wear "appropriate clothes"... like Las Vegas.:eek:

 

Also, its not about being 'inflexible and narrow-minded and self-centered'; it's the people who feel that being dressed formally who are indeed self-centered. It's laughable that people walk around these cruise ships with their noses in the air, soley because they are in a tux. If you don't like what someone is wearing, DON'T LOOK AT THEM. Think about it ....you are on a cruise! We are not at a wedding and we are not at a funeral. We are on vacation!! It's sad that people feel that wearing a tux is going to make their vacation more enjoyable. If it makes you feel better to wear a tux, then you have the problem.

 

If a cruiseline requires appropriate clothes and the vast majority of its passengers honor that code and adhere to it, the people who are being "inflexible, narrow-minded and self-centered" are indeed the people who are so inflexible, narrow-minded and self-centered as to being totally unable to follow the required guidelines. Duh! And your statement "If you don't like what someone is wearing, DON'T LOOK AT THEM" is the epitome of hypocrisy, because you then go on to characterize those who are being considerate and following the dress code as being self-centered, laughable, snobs who have their noses up in the air and who have to be respectful of the cruiseline's requests to "make their vacation enjoyable" and who, by wearing a tux "have the problem". Follow your own all-caps guideline: DON'T LOOK AT THEM! :D

 

Furthermore, how dare you say a majority of t 'me, me, me' people are from New Jersey and from New York? Now you are stereotyping both states? You are the one who should be pitied for making such a stupid and insensitive remark. I, too, live in this area, have worked and lived here my entire life and am proud to be from here. New Yorkers have dealt with a lot and it is the best city in the country. I hold my head high and proud to be associated with this fine city. It's your narrowmindedness that give New Yorkers a bad name.

 

I said an "inordinate" number of people from New Jersey and New York seemed to be of the "me, me, me" type. Apparently you didn't look "inordinate" up. It means a larger amount than would be in a random representation, which definitely appears to be true. Instead of calling me "stupid" and "insensitive" (name-calling is such a mature way of making your "point") :rolleyes: maybe you should look in the mirror and see if the "stereotyping" fits. New Yorkers are given a bad name because there are enough New Yorkers who act out a certain behavior to justify the stereotype. I have spent most of my life in the South, and I experience the same stereotypes. Of course, the majority of people in the South and in New York/New Jersey do not fit the stereotype, but enough do to justify the stereotype. You say that it is MY "narrowmindedness" which gives New Yorkers a bad name. I am not responsible for the stereotype of either New Yorkers or Southerners. The people who act out in those negative ways, in both parts of the country, are the ones to blame. I know that the majority of people in both states are decent and kind people. My late first wife and my current wife were both native New Yorkers and are wonderful, as are the majority of my in-laws. But people like you are the ones who reinforce the stereotypes.

 

If I want my cruise to be about ME, then so be it. After all, it is my vacation and I am entitled to wear what I want and do what I want. Silly me, it's only MY vacation and I paid for it, but what was I thinking? How silly am I to want it to be about ME?

 

You just proved everything that I and so many others have been saying about the inconsiderate, self-centered, "me, me, me" type of person. :D You really just don't have a clue as to what you and others of your ilk are, do you?

 

 

More name-calling. You're a piece of work, Cruiser31. :eek:

 

Allen

[julieanne]

:eek::eek: I must say, I truly enjoy the dressing up. However, on our honeymoon cruise, we both got a bad colf/flu, so we opted to dine in the cabin and take a walk later in the evening, casual dress. I think if you are going to the dining room, you should adhere to the "suggested dress". We do like to change after our dinner and we do not partake of the shows, so if we're going to take a stroll, I don't think it matters if we have removed our formal attire!

 

 

 

6/72 Song of Norway Caribbean 7/73 Sun Viking Caribbean 12/74 Fairsea Mexico 6/75 Golden Odyssey E. Mediterranean 4/76 Odessa Yucatan 6/76 Fairwind Transcanal 5/77 Sun Princess 8/77 Fairstar Australia/S. Pacific

12/77 Monarch Sun Caribbean 6/78 Danae Mediterranean 12/78 Festivale Caribbean 7/79 Fairstar S. Pacific 12/80 Nordic Prince Caribbean 12/82 Tropicale Mexico 10/84 Jubilee Mexico 4/88 Fairsea Mexico 9/91 Dawn Princess Ensenada 4/95 Jubilee Mexico 6/96 Century Caribbean 12/97 Song Of America Mexico 11/98 Grand Princess Caribbean 12/98 Monarch of the Seas Ensenada 11/99 Rhapsody of the Seas Mexico 4/00 Norwegian Sea Transcanal 11/00 Splendor of the Seas Caribbean 11/01 Mercury Transcanal 12/02 Sun Princess Mexico 12/03 Pride Mexico 5/05 Mercury Transatlantic

[Danno]

If I want my cruise to be about ME, then so be it. After all, it is my vacation and I am entitled to wear what I want and do what I want. .

 

No you're are not...you are entitled to spend your money where you want...once there, you play by the rules.

 

How can anyone chastise people for having their noses in the air, then make a statement like this...arrogance defined.

[sportsguy7]

It seems as if I really set off this latest round of atomic missles so I would like to explain the motivation for my comments yesterday. My wife and I have been on 17 cruises encompassing several lines. Since both of us are more comfortable dressing casually most of the time, we were surprised by the suggested guidelines for the three informal nights.

I have been a reader of messages on this board for several years and until yesterday did not see any need to post. Is being a lurker a crime? I think not.

I have gotten loads of valuable information and consider the board quite a helpful tool.

I saw the string yesterday and read the posts. Unless I am missing something, it seems the moderator has stricken several posts stating that X passengers are snobby and proud of it. One poster even offered to show non conformists how to find aft elevators to the buffet area so they would not be seen and offend the senses of those who elected to wear jackets and ties.

Having read all this garbage, I jumped in and posted yesterday. I mentioned Radisson only to show that the self appointed X snobs are not at the top of the heap.

Frankly, my one Radisson cruise was enough. It was way too laid back.

On informal nights, there was a nice mix of casual ware and jackets and ties and we all co existed very comfortably.

I even found a string on Radisson dress code and found about a 50/50 split of those who favored a type of evening wear. So be it.

The petty comments of those on this string who are so hung up on what to wear are very sad indeed.

Get a life people. The dress cose is just that, a suggestion. It is not in our ticket language which is the only legal contract between us and Celebrity. Trust me on this. So, if I am asked to leave the dining room for not adhering to a recommended but not mandatory dress code, you bet I will prevail in a lawsuit. It is a slamdunk.

BUT, all I want is an enjoyable cruise. My casual dress is always new for the cruise. Snub your noses at me if you will. I will look at you as phonies.

 

I worked in NYC at the World Trade Center and retired in January 2001. My firm lost 295 people of which I knew about 100 very well. I lost a large number of coworkers and friends. That is way more worthy of concern than cruise phonies.

 

Do I care about your nose in the air attitude? Nope! I just want to have a good time.

[tbelian]

So, if I am asked to leave the dining room for not adhering to a recommended but not mandatory dress code, you bet I will prevail in a lawsuit. It is a slamdunk.

 

I will take that bet in a heartbeat. Unless you are an attorney (no wait, you said insurance). You couldn't do your own 'pro bono' on the case. Even if you were, you would be charging yourself, (or be charged) hundreds of dollars an hour to pursue the case. Undoubtedly, no one would take the case, but if they did, it would be quite a waste of good money after bad.

 

Again, I would take the bet on how it would play out in the blink of an eye.

 

People HAVE reported that they were denied entrance to the dining room. Nothing heard from them other than that in re" 'lawsuit' . Not gonna happen.

[Cruiser31]

So which is it?? Casually or in good taste...it's not both.

For the record, casual can be in good taste. A tux isn't the only attire that is tasteful, but if you need a tux to define good taste, that's up to you.

[julieanne]

And I never chastise people who choose to dress otherwise! I enjoy the dressing, but I do see the looks on people's faces after we have changed out of our formal attire! It's just rude! There are so many different types of dining on board, so you it's your choice, I say live and let live!