Phony Formalism

[F5Loar]

I'd better throw in my 2cents before Walt closes this one! First off not everyone boarding will read these posts about why or why not you should follow the dress code. But since you are reading this you know that some of the X ships do indeed enforce their dress code. Now if they nicely tell you before you pack what you will need for formal night (and face it men, the code for formal night has been reduced to a simple coat and tie so how hard can that really be?)and then they tell you again in the daily paper you get the night before so you can prepare to dress up and then again when you walk in and 90% of the others are dressed up why is this a problem? Why would anyone take the chance of enforcement on themselves by the matride? Why would you want that type of embaressment while on vacation when you should have know better? The problem is you can pick your ship , you can pick your week to go and where to go but you will never be able to pick the other 2000 +/- people going with you. There will always be those certain people who for their own personal reasons either didn't know to dress up or refuse to dress up. Even though X like many other lines does provide "alternative" dining for those that don't want to get dress up there are those that feel they will break the rules and go anyway into a room full of people who did get it and act like nothing is wrong when many will look in disgust at your unacceptable dress. This is the part I don't get. Why would anyone put themselves through such humliation while on vacation when you can avoid it? It's those few who insist on doing it "their way" or "I wear a tie all week, darned if I'll wear it on vacation" or the "I've never owned a suit in my life why would I waste money on one to go on vacation?" But from what I've read here only one person got it right and that was Don of DonLou. The men do it for the ladies and to me that is what it is all about the respect you show your lady. Forget the cruiseline and what others do, it's what you do to show respect for your lady. Now if Joe Blow shows disrespect of his lady and she allows him to do so then you pretty much know the score on their lifestyles and it's not the same as yours. I really truly believe that if X or Yand Z would enforce the dress codes they would like for you to partake in we would not be having this discussion. So the blame lies with the management of the line not us. Until they do something about it, us talking about it will not change how others see fit to dress on a cruise on formal night.

[caviargal]

When we were on Infinity in Hawaii in '03 there were a number of people that were casual on formal nights and no one really made notice of it. My parents and I followed the request to adhere to formal policy but our table mates were casual to very casual on formal nights. If you want to go formal, go for it. If you feel it's your vacation and no way are you going to dress formal, more power to ya. I do feel it is your time to enjoy yourself and if you want to go casual it isn't going to have any effect on me in any way. HAVE FUN!

 

 

KevBew: While it might not have any effect on you to be dining with those dressed casually on a formal night, it will to many other Celebrity cruisers, as is obvious on this board. What you are stating is that anyone who chooses to disregard the dress codes should be perfectly comfortable doing so. IMO, it is exactly this attitude that is causing the decline of the traditional cruising experience.

 

Why in the world would anyone choose to sail with a line that has formal nights when the intent to disregard them? It really is beyond my understanding. A large part of my enjoyment of a cruise is - or was - the elegant atmosphere of dinner in the dining room. When it becomes an experience more like Outback, where casual is the norm, I for one will chose an alternate vacation. The ports are pretty irrelevant to me, as are things like shows and ice rinks, etc.

 

This horse has been beaten to death and the bottom line is that the cruise lines are responsible for enforcing their policies and delivering the experience their clientele wants. If X really wants pax that are more suited to CCL or NCL then they will experience of loss of clients who cruise with them for the overall experience they offer. This will ultimately hit them on their bottom line and they will become just like the others.

 

Crystal is the only line who absolutely and consistenly enforces their dress codes. They are very successful and have a loyal customer base.

 

I personally am disappointed that the staff on Infinity chose to allow casual attire on a formal night in the main dining room and am sure that many passengers were indeed disappointed and offended.

[SS Cruise Lady]

In my opinion, when people deliberately ignore dress codes they are being very inconsiderate of the ship's crew who are then placed in an unnecessary quandary. Crew members then have to decide whether they should enforce the code and risk creating a scene, or just look the other way, which is not what they are supposed to do I understand that there are people who prefer not to wear formal attire, but they should utilize the other options that are available instead of just thinking about themselves.

[F5Loar]

Are you saying Infinity on their own has a new policy that casual is fine for formal nights, or are you saying they just turned their heads the other way as a few walked in casually dressed and did nothing about it? I may have to re-book if they have a new policy on that ship that casual is okay for formal night.

[F5Loar]

I keep reading about these people who don't want to wear formal attire. A coat and tie is not formal attire. The cruise industry in general has lowered the formal attire standards to include a coat and tie. So say these people just want to buck the system period. Wearing a coat and tie or a dress of any sort should not be a reason. If you can afford the cruise you can afford to go to Goodwill and for $10 suit yourself up for a one time affair. It's much deeper than not wanting to dress up in formal attire.

[halos]

I may be naive but I don't think this is a matter of what people can afford...it's just about stubborness and cultural differences...I just saw on another thread a list of cruiselines and the expected dress 'requirements' (which aren't in fact requirements at all) and NCL has an exception for their cruises that leave from TX....denim is allowed in the dining room on all ships departing from the Lone Start State :eek:

I think that is totally bizzare!

Are you telling me that no man in Texas owns a suit???? :confused:

 

I guess I am WAY too much a Yankee.

[hdawson]

Simply a coat and tie doesn't really meet the standard. Suit or tux is the standard last I checked. However, Carnival has revised what is appropriate for them to include sportcoat and tie. My experience is that on Carnival 90% of the guests do in fact dress to the spirit of the dress standards. Probably over 98% on Celebrity.

[WeBeCruisin']

 

And, unfortunately, the people who refuse to follow the dress code are generally the same people who will get off on making a loud, noisy, scene. They like the attention and enjoy irritating others.

[Danno]

They like the attention and enjoy irritating others.

 

 

All the more reason to tell them they are dining ELSEWHERE tonight' date=' [/b']where their chosen attire is acceptable...with any good luck you can insult these people enough that they decide to become another cruiseline's problem on their next cruise.

 

I'm seldom concerned by the actual attire...it's the accompanying attitude that comes with the decision that I dislike...but then I'm a snob :p .

[usha]

:D Danno, I don't like the attitude that goes with refusing to dress appropriately, either. Guess that makes me a snob, too!

[F5Loar]

While a simple coat and tie may not be in the suggested code from what I've seen walk in they would welcome those in a coat and tie, matching or not!

And I think most would accept it as "at least they are trying to conform" and they won't be booted out or frowned down upon. Yes other lines have revised their codes to reflect the "only a coat and tie will do" including the posh HAL. Not to start a flame war here but I consider HAL and X to be on the same tier not on the Carnival, RCL,Princess,NCL,Costa,Disney tier of cruise lines.

[C 2 C]

=..but then I'm a snob :p .

 

Definition:

 

snob (snŏb)

n.

1. One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors.
   
2. One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.

 

TEST:http://www.queendom.com/tests/minitests/fx/snob.html

[Danno]

C2C....that's an old definition...now it just means anyone who is better than Newt...hardly an exclusive group :p . (Did I meantion I'm at the Royal York tomorrow??)

[C 2 C]

http://puzzles.about.com/library/quiz/blsnob.htm

 

Just did my snob test and I found that I don't measure up... I'm a failure at emulating my social betters.... guess I just have to cram from these pages and retest myself....

 

"Your Snob-O-Meter score is 44%. Sorta snobby. You can be relaxed and accepting of those that don't fit your criteria for being "cool", but you also have the occasional bout of superiority. Perhaps there are certain things that matter more to you than others, or you just get in a snobby mood from time to time. Whatever the case, you should refrain from judging others on superficial qualities. Don't judge a book by its cover. You don't know what fabulous and fascinating people you might discount just because they're not wearing the right brand of socks. Of course, this semi-snob attitude might get you a better job with a bigger paycheck. Snobs tend to have more self-confidence which means they get to call the shots. Watch out for those bouts of humility which are the hallmarks of a loser and can spell disaster in this dog-eat-dog world." from the Test

[C 2 C]

=Danno(Did I mention I'm at the Royal York tomorrow??)

 

Yes I did note that earlier. That's the nice place to catch the subway in Toronto... right?

[Cruise Arizona]

Here's what the test said:

 

Score: 50 out of 100

 

What does your score mean? Your test results indicate that you're somewhat snobby. You can be relaxed and accepting of those that don't fit your criteria for being "cool", but you also have the occasional bout of superiority. Perhaps there are certain things that matter more to you more than others, like clothes or work status, or you just get in a snobby mood from time to time. Whatever the case, you should refrain from judging others on superficial qualities. It may be an overused cliché, but it says it all: Don't judge a book by a cover. You don't know what fabulous and fascinating people you might discount just because they're not wearing the right brand of socks. Try to put aside your biases and give people a chance!

____________

I hate to say it but this is probably true. So don't hate me because I'm 50% snobby.

[C 2 C]

I hate to say it but this is probably true. So don't hate me because I'm 50% snobby.

 

I bow down in respect.... you must know better cheeses than I do

 

I will let you jump the line when we meet ... 6 places closer to the captain...

[Cruise Arizona]

I know not of better cheese, but hey that kroger brand cream cheese I had with lunch was pretty good.

 

Did you take the test? my 50% snobby must have been higher than yours??

Even so, it was only 50%, so you only need me to cut ahead 3 places in Captains line.

[usha]

Okay, I'm 30% snobby, but that mean I'm also 70% not snobby.:rolleyes:

[excitedofharpenden]

Fun test. Thanks! 72% for me. Very snobby, although there was a certain US slant to the questions and I had to say "no" to the American/Canadian Pop Idol question. Probably slightly offset by the "Four Seasons" question. I was thinking of Vivaldi. I never knew I posessed such culture:rolleyes:

 

Phil

[C 2 C]

Okay, I'm 30% snobby, but that mean I'm also 70% not snobby.:rolleyes:

 

OK You take up the back of the line and Phil moves to the front...

 

Now who's going to provide us with X snob-quotient pins?

[hermang]

When I opened this thread I expected nothing more than to say - hey - you want to dress up great if not not. I certainly didn't expect the same arguments although less vitriolic than before.

 

Someone did make a rather valid point - no where in the contract does it say Thou shalt wear a tuxedo or dress formally as a condition of passage.

 

While I can and will when the mood strikes wear a Tux for formal night and a suit or jacket and tie when it doesn't for formal night I don't see where this has anything to do with spoiling the cruise experience for anyone.

 

Maybe this is a poor analogy but do you all drive 55mph or do you sometimes speed?

 

Do you occassionally run a red light?

 

After all those are Posted rules of Conduct

[C 2 C]

Maybe this is a poor analogy but do you all drive 55mph or do you sometimes speed?.

 

Do you occassionally run a red light?

 

After all those are Posted rules of Conduct

 

Yes (except in Ohio :().... but eventually you know there are consequences..

[Blazerboy]

Two tests - similar scores but different answers:

 

 

1. Your Snob-O-Meter score is 67%. Sorta snobby.

 

2. And: Your score is 70: You've got a superiority complex!

The interesting thing here is that, on the second test, I said I'd date the prison person, and stop by the flea bag hotel, and THAT's the test that made me Super Snob???:eek:

Must be some truly sleezy snobs out there!:D

Andrew

[Cruise Arizona]

I was only 44% snobby on the about test. What messed me up was the Bush Gardens vs World Figure Skating Championships question. I used to be a figure skater and have never been to the World Championships, but I used ot live near Tampa and My MIL lives near there now, so I've been there probably at least 8 times. I love the Rollar costers, but still would love to see a truly brilliant performance by some of the Chinese, Canadian and Russian Pairs, or Michelle Kwan or Sasha Cohen.