Unhappy people on the Oosterdam 10/15/05

[trubey]

I just want to report that if you are thinking about the Masdam in February, 2007, there is a full ship charter planned.

 

For a, Huh? Can they do that?:

 

http://www.bare-necessities.com

 

or

 

http://www.castawaystravel.com

 

susan.

[lizf]

OMG how do you find these?

 

I can't believe my own eyes on this one. Susan you are the greatest to do this for everyone. I'm hoping they won't do this to the Prinsendam, but do I hope I won't stumble into something like that. I am just so shocked. Can you imagine the crew? They have no choice. I will just have to stick to the longer voyages and figure my cruising life is nearing an end. It seems all of the cruise lines do this type of thing. Well, not THIS type (as far as I know). There was a day when reputation meant more to them, but anymore, its just anyway to make a buck.

[wander]

What an unpleasant experience! Good work Trubey on the list.

 

From our experiences, I would suspect that many of the groups listed would hardly be noticed, but one never knows. We were on a 14 day cruise where over half the passengers were a special interest group. They had actually paid more for the cruise (their leaders got the additional money) because of some well known folks who were traveling with them (political types) who presented lectures and panel discussions every time we had any sea time. Thus, this left the whole rest of the ship, other than the show lounge, half empty for the rest of us to enjoy. It was wonderful!!!

 

The negatives were 1. They got assigned to the larger dining room tables at dinner so that they could mix and mingle. I like the larger tables, but we were assigned to eat with a delightful couple at a table for four. 2. After the first sea day one learned to check their posted schedule and get to the Lido before their morning session ended, or well after it ended. This was not a big problem.

 

I would suspect that they had a few evening activities, but we could lead our normal shipboard evenings without any interference from them. They were anything but rowdy.

 

I am suspecting that the crowd on a "reward" cruise probably has a different attitude than many special interest groups, but certainly not all.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I just want to report that if you are thinking about the Masdam in February, 2007, there is a full ship charter planned.

 

For a, Huh? Can they do that?:

 

http://www.bare-necessities.com

 

or

 

http://www.castawaystravel.com

 

susan.

 

The Maasdam in February could give us a whole new out look on Formal Night:eek: Good thing Maasdam does not go North in February, they might get a bit chilly:D

[WISCruiser]

I just want to report that if you are thinking about the Masdam in February, 2007, there is a full ship charter planned.

 

For a, Huh? Can they do that?:

 

http://www.bare-necessities.com

 

or

 

http://www.castawaystravel.com

 

susan.

 

Now that's got to be a site... a ship full of naked people:o

 

I wonder if the Crew has to go *sans* clothes too?

[xpcdoojk]

That's nuts. But, as someone else said ... each cruise line does things differently. I don't think HAL is very CC friendly. On my Zuiderdam cruise last summer, someone mentioned Cruise Critic at a "coffee chat" with the CD, and he made a sort of disparaging shrug ... "oh, people shouldn't believe everything they read on CC" ... something to that effect. The CD was Dane Butcher.

 

But yet, on Princess ... the only other line I've thus far sailed, they are very CC friendly and gladly hosted a get together for us ... complete with champaign ... NO CHARGE whatsoever. We also put together a "buffet" type thingy on one of the aft decks during one of the sea days back to San Pedro for our group, and Princess sent some stewards out there with sandwiches and stuff to add to our table.

 

But, hey ... to each cruise line its own. The lack of a CC party sponsored by the cruiseline is not exactly a "deal breaker" for me. The group can always organize their own thing informally ... at least that's what we're gonna do on the Amsterdam this January.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

RCI currently offers something called a CC meet and mingle (as does X) in which they have a few snacks and tea, lemonade and coffee for the CC members that attend. Before this was offered by RCI we used to have CC meetings and on one cruise to Hawaii right after 9/11 we had a good group of about 40 people, and we had an informal meeting in one of the bars, and chatted, a couple of days later we had another meeting hosted by one couple. They provided food and drinks, I know for a fact that RCI billed this couple for this. I don't know how much they billed them.

 

So, billing for a party is typical in the industry. Of course RCI provides a minimal party some gifts and the CD for a few minutes currently if 25 or more sign up with RCI before sailing. The best parties though are those organized by the group and not the cruiseline. JMHO

 

jc

[travellady]

Hmm, I wonder if the crew covers all the furniture for cruises in the buff? I somehow feel a little squeamish about sitting on furniture that was sat on by a bare butt :eek:

[xpcdoojk]

Our very 1st cruise was on the NCL Sky and that had 500 people from AmerisLife on board (I was told they were insurance agents). It made our cruise experience horrible.

 

I had heard about all the wonderful things that happen on cruises and none of it happened on mine because they had all the areas reserved. You could not get a spa appointment because each one of their employees had been given a $200 gift certificate and they book out all the appointments, the wine tasting was closed to the public and only available to them (my husband is a wine collector and was looking forward to attending), the specialty resteraunts booked out every night for them, the galley tour - private for them only, shows were cancelled and private shows with comedians were held for them. But the topper of it all was this was an Alaska cruise and on the day we sailed Glacier Bay they closed off the pool deck & sports deck for a private viewing party for them only. NCL employees were standing at all stairways and elevators and turning guests away who didn't have their yellow raincoat (they all got one) and card showing they were with the group. There was 2000 passengers on that ship; this group made up 25% - so the rest of us had to fight for railing space on the jogging deck to try and get pictures of the glaciers. Or if you were lucky and had a balcony you could stay there - this was our first cruise and we didn't have one.

 

Lattitude members were complaining because all their perks got taken away for that cruise due to the group and all upgrades were lost too.

 

We said we would never ever sail again after that cruise; I actually called my TA to get me a flight home so I could get off the ship but she couldn't get me one (at least an affordable one).

 

But a year later we tried again on a different line and fell in love with cruising and got to see everything people always raved about. Now I try to find out if large groups are going to be on board. I wouldn't mind if they didn't get to take over the whole ship.

 

As for dinner times, I always ask for late seating because there are less children - but it wouldn't be a major deal if they changed me. As long as we are not a table with all families & little kids. We have no children and it is very difficult (emotionally) to be around families sometimes seeing what we are missing out on.

 

Gosh, Cuppy, I haven't seen you around since the whole dot E thing. How are you doing?

 

jc

[kryos]

Rita - Thanks for that bit of information. :( Just when I was thinking..."Wow, I'm so glad we're on a 10-day cruise!"....and you come up with that analysis. :rolleyes: :)

LOL ... don't worry. I still say you are much safer with a longer cruise. Some of these groups in Trubey's list are probably groups that you won't even know are onboard. I can't help but wonder just how many people will be onboard for a "Geeks cruise?" And, even if they are a larger number, I somehow doubt they'll be anywhere near the numbers that would impact a cruise experience for other guests. Same goes for a quilting group or a religious sailing. These people generally don't take over public areas. They are smaller in number and don't require all that space. Their activities take place in rooms that the ship has specifically for those purposes ... classrooms and lounges that are not even open during the day for the general cruising public.

 

The groups I most worry about are the incentive groups ... the ones who pay zip for their cruise because they made all their sales quotas. These are the folks ... and, yes, this is a sterotype to some extent ... who, in many cases, are not really the cruising type. They don't go for the laid-back, elegant environment that a ship like Holland-America provides. They want beer, boisterousness, and loud fun. These are the folks who comprised the large groups who will quickly wreck a cruise for everyone else, and thankfully these are the folks who generally will book the seven-dayers or shorter. After all, the company can't have the better part of their salesforce out of the office for more than one week.

 

Ditto for the college spring breakers type groups.

 

So, I still say stick with ten-day or longer cruises and you won't have any problems.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Now that we can find out which cruises PH has their events, it should be possible to avoid them.

 

Frankly, mrsraggy, I would write to HAL HQ and detail everything you've outlined. I would also send a copy to PH, and inform them that their people are their worst advertising. It might do ZERO good, but it might help you to feel as though you've been able give feedback.

 

I too would encourage mrsraggy to send her letter ... certified mail ... to HAL headquarters. Hopefully, others on the cruise will do the same. Maybe if HAL sees that they are alienating many loyal passengers when they allow a group such as PH to overrun a ship, they may rethink their group strategy ... i.e., just what type of perks they are willing to give to a group that is sailing on a publicly-offered cruise. Hey, if the group wants to take over the ship, then let them charter it! I'd rather get bumped for a charter than sail in this type of environment.

 

Also, I hate to tell you this RevNeal, but PH is but a small part of your troubles, and avoiding them will not go very far in ensuring you don't have a similar cruise experience.

 

There are literally thousands of companies out there that host incentive cruises for their salespeople, and I've heard similar horror stories when people have sailed with 800 State Farm agents, 900 GM dealers, 500 Weichert Realty salespeople ... etc. Of course, these are just examples, but you get the picture. The sad thing about these sailings is that you will never find them on the net. They are strictly inter-company things ... and if they appeared on the net at all, it would be on that company's intranet site ... not the public web. Hence, you won't find out that they are onboard until you get to the embarkation terminal. :(

 

That's why I try to stick with the longer cruises now. I'm just praying they don't louse up our Westerdam CC group cruise next October, because that is the very last 7-dayer (actually a b2b 14-dayer) that I ever plan to take.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Now that's got to be a site... a ship full of naked people:o

 

I wonder if the Crew has to go *sans* clothes too?

Let them have their sailing. If it's charter, no one has to worry about being stuck on a ship with them. You will only be able to book that cruise through their group and then you know what you are getting into.

 

Fine with me. That's exactly what a lot of these groups should do ... charter the ship and then the whole sailing can be focused entirely on them ... without lousing up anyone else's cruise experience.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

If you would like to let PH know about the inappropiate behavior of their employees I have done a little research for you. You can write to PH at: Princess House, Inc., 470 Myles Standish Blvd., Taunton, MA 02780. Their CEO is Jim Northrup, CFO is Dan Murphy and the VP of Sales is Lynn Branham.

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time writing to PH's people. I place 100% of the blame for their actions on HAL. HAL was the one who gave them the entire late dinner seating. HAL tolerated their vulgar behavior onboard and didn't say a word about it, thus letting them feel that their actions were okay.

 

There was no excuse for that. Surely PH had some of their own people in authority onboard with the group, and someone from the shipboard management staff ... even the Captain if necessary ... could have pulled them aside and told them under no uncertain terms to control their group. They didn't do that, so in my humble opinion, HAL is at fault, not the PH folks.

 

I'd be sending my letters to HAL corporate and letting them know under no uncertain terms that I was expecting some sort of considerable compensation ... i.e., like a refund of perhaps 50% of what I paid for this cruise ... and not a future cruise credit either, cause I had no intention of sailing HAL again.

 

If enough people sent similar letters to HAL, I'd bet they'd swing into damage control mode pretty quick and figure ... "better do something for these people before we have a lawsuit on our hands." Remember, even if a lawsuit hasn't got a chance of winning, companies hate them because they are expensive to defend. Lawyers don't come cheap. So they will usually do whatever they can to avoid one from even starting. HAL will be no exception to this rule.

 

Just my ever so humble opinion ... but focus your letter writing campaign on HAL.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Classynfun1]

I just want to report that if you are thinking about the Masdam in February, 2007, there is a full ship charter planned.

 

For a, Huh? Can they do that?:

 

http://www.bare-necessities.com

 

or

 

http://www.castawaystravel.com

 

susan.

 

Oh trust me, their is staff looking forward to this type of cruise for sure. A good number of them are involved in different lifestyles, themselves. So, for the most part, don't worry about the staff!

 

Just be glad this will be a full charter, if it's not your thing! ;)

[trubey]

I mentioned this cruise simply because in my childish mind it was amusing to imagine the dining room, the Lido, the loungess, etc. filled with naked people. But, actually, I think what is more important, is that this sailing is being sold as a full ship charter.

 

Many of us remember a thread in which individuals were booking (or had booked) for a cruise which was simultaneously being sold as a charter. They were not informed until a good deal of time had passed and then had to make alternate choices and plans.

 

It is my understanding (and someone correct me if I am wrong) that the group doing the chartering and HAL both continue to sell tickets until the chartering group has sufficient bookings to know that they will be able to fill the ship. It is only then that HAL stops the sales.

 

susana (getting nervous that she will be thrown off the Prinsendam next month for being a cruise critic trouble-maker).

[gizmo]

I mentioned this cruise simply because in my childish mind it was amusing to imagine the dining room, the Lido, the loungess, etc. filled with naked people. But, actually, I think what is more important, is that this sailing is being sold as a full ship charter.

 

Many of us remember a thread in which individuals were booking (or had booked) for a cruise which was simultaneously being sold as a charter. They were not informed until a good deal of time had passed and then had to make alternate choices and plans.

 

It is my understanding (and someone correct me if I am wrong) that the group doing the chartering and HAL both continue to sell tickets until the chartering group has sufficient bookings to know that they will be able to fill the ship. It is only then that HAL stops the sales.

 

susana (getting nervous that she will be thrown off the Prinsendam next month for being a cruise critic trouble-maker).

 

That is not my understanding of a charter.

 

I believe when you charter a ship it is for the entire ship and Hal no longer offers any cabins to anyone. It would be up to the TA who was handling the charter to book the cabins.

 

There are times when people have booked a cruise and months later the ship get's "chartered". Pax who booked, get notified that their cruise is no longer available because of a charter.

 

Those that were mentioned that did not get notified, should have. It was the fault of someone, TA or HAL or maybe both.

[trubey]

Gizmo, you may very well be right.

 

I was not personally involved in the fiasco, so my memory of what happened and when, might not really be right. I just went to HAL's site to see if they are offering the cruise, but I couldn't log on.

 

It also might be that this group really has made no arrangements with HAL. susana.

[AirGorilla]

Hmm, I wonder if the crew covers all the furniture for cruises in the buff? I somehow feel a little squeamish about sitting on furniture that was sat on by a bare butt :eek:

 

How do you deal with the bedspread in your cabin??

[RuthC]

How do you deal with the bedspread in your cabin??

Same way as always: place a towel or robe down before sitting? :confused:

[LagunaLiving]

Notice that all the Nudist cruises are Adult Only? The perfect solution for those not wishing to sail with the "screaming hoardes of children!" :D

[AirGorilla]

Same way as always: place a towel or robe down before sitting? :confused:

 

HMMMMM. I'll bet that EVERYBODY doesn't do that!!!!!!!!!

[Librgirl]

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time writing to PH's people. I place 100% of the blame for their actions on HAL. HAL was the one who gave them the entire late dinner seating. HAL tolerated their vulgar behavior onboard and didn't say a word about it, thus letting them feel that their actions were okay.

 

There was no excuse for that. Surely PH had some of their own people in authority onboard with the group, and someone from the shipboard management staff ... even the Captain if necessary ... could have pulled them aside and told them under no uncertain terms to control their group. They didn't do that, so in my humble opinion, HAL is at fault, not the PH folks.

 

....

Just my ever so humble opinion ... but focus your letter writing campaign on HAL.

 

Perhaps someone should publish (online) brief etiquette guidelines for travellers? I feel that both the company who booked the cruise for their employees (salespeople) and HAL share equal responsibility for enforcing good behavior in the group. There are ship rules, but more importantly, there are standards for treating other Pax with respect. Groups booking cruises should be told in advance what's allowable and what is downright rude. The same thing goes for convention goers (for those attending professional conferences) and other large groups who descend en masse on a hotel or city or ship. The hotel or cruise line needs to encourage civility and if that means, talking to the person in charge of the travellers, so be it. After all, the behavior of that group is noticed by others and reflects (poorly or favorably) on that company or profession. I would tend not to patronize a company if the majority of people I met had acted like jerks. If I was really upset, I would contact both the cruise line and the offending company who booked the cruise.

 

When our family had a Christmas cruise this past December to celebrate my in-laws 50th, we were (I hope) courteous & pleasant at our dining table. A smaller family of 3 shared our 2 side-by-side tables for 8 and we tried to rotate our family members among the 2 tables every night so that we all could meet them. I cringe sometimes at the behavior encouraged (cheers and cat calls) in the dining room especially when a cruise line (definitely not HAL) tries to encourage the passengers to compete for a spirit award. Or the cruise lines that push drinks (for profit!), especially the fun/party boats with a higher than normal concentration of college (fraternity/sorority) students. I won't go on one of those "fun" cruises again.

 

And what about people that try to 'save' a whole block of seats at the evening show or poolside for their group? Are there rules of thumb about how many seats you can hog and for how long? How do you know when you are a jerk and when you are trying to look out for a group member? I feel that there are not shared standards and that people don't even realize that they are borderline (or crossed the line) rude.

 

The cruiseline sets the tone as to what is acceptable behavior by how the CD organizes events and how the cruise staff treat the passengers. The dynamics change based on who is aboard, but a number of people tend to behave according to how others are acting (whining and getting special favors or thinking the rules don't apply to them).

 

-Deb

[cdkempton]

Mrsraggy: I'm so sorry that things turned out as most of us thought they might but were hoping otherwise. I still can't believe that HAL allowed these things to happen. Bad language should never be tolerated on any cruise line much less a supposed upscale line like HAL.

As far as a clothes optional cruise, I can't imagine that they will actually allow these people to roam anywhere on the ship, including the dining areas, sans clothes:O I can see them allowing them it in the outside areas, as some already have specified nude bathing areas, but not inside. It turns my stomach and hurts my head to think about it. Ugh.

[jhannah]

Czechmate, sorry to see you go. I fully understand and respect your feelings. Many folks are currently disillusioned with HAL. I would hope that as things settle down, Holland America will make the opportunity to redeem themselves for the public relations fiasco they've created on the Oosterdam. Then, hopefully, you will consider taking another look at what has been a fine cruise company for well over 100 years.

 

Best wishes, and smooth sailing wherever you go.

[rubrrick]

My DW and I had a wonderful trip in 1997 on the Veendam, one that probably set a standard of what we should expect from a cruiseline that set itself as "top shelf". We had an S suite, and everyone was very attentive. It was also our honeymoon!!

We have cruised many lines since then, as well as before, and the last time we cruised HAL was on the Zuiderdam last spring. All that I will say is that it was different.

We are trying again on the Westerdam in December. We look forward to this cruise, as every cruise is special to us. We have not cruised HAL enough to have a special feel of it, as we do some others.

We hope that the December cruise sets us back to where we enjoy HAL. The price was right, and the itinerary looks good. I won't let one cruise set me off to the point that I will never sail a line again, and I don't think that any company that has paying guests wants to lose them.

If Steve Wynn were aboard, he might set the heads of HAL straight. (He might also keep certain ships for conventions only)

Each one of us has certain needs and wants, and each line tries very hard to fill that want. Maybe we are not a match for HAL. We hope to find that out in December.

 

Rick

[travellady]

Regarding placing a towel on the bedspread, this makes sense buff cruise or not. One expects somebody may sit on the bed unclothed. But I don't expect to have to carry a towel around with me and place it on every seat I sit on. It really does beg the question, how thorough of a cleaning is done after a nudest cruise?