Outlets/Power Strips?

[SadieN]

A circuit breaker is totally different from a surge protector. A circuit breaker protects against excessive current or amperage, which would be caused by a fault in the appliance that is plugged in and protects the user from this excessive current causing electrical shock. A surge protector protects the appliance that is plugged in from excessive voltage like a lightning strike, which can damage the electronic circuits of most electronics without causing any danger to the user via electricity or fire.

 

 

 

A circuit breaker does just that, breaks the circuit, essentially opening a switch to stop the current. A surge protector diverts the excessive voltage to the ground wire of the electrical system. So, a surge protector does not open a circuit, it only diverts it. The problem is that the electronic components of the surge protector that actually trigger this diversion of power, while compatible with shore side wiring standards, are not compatible with shipboard wiring standards, and can be exposed to power conditions that are not harmful to your electronics that are plugged in, but are harmful to the semi-conductors in the surge protector, which can fail and cause a fire.

 

 

Thanks.

Think I got it. In layman's terms-- circuit breaker is a light switch and a surge protector is a lightening rod.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[beg3yrs]

Thanks.

Think I got it. In layman's terms-- circuit breaker is a light switch and a surge protector is a lightening rod.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

Wow, well said! I'm going to remember that explanation.

[Wavelet]

I know this topics has been discussed MANY times before. My question has to do with the Anker 10 port USB charger that has been recommended by several Cruise Critic members. In the description of this charger it does say it has surge suppression. This doesn't interfere with the ship's electrical system? I'm not an electrician, I thought anything that says surge suppression was illegal. I'm having a hard time finding anything that doesn't say some sort of surge suppression or surge protector. Thanks.

[Colo Cruiser]

I know this topics has been discussed MANY times before. My question has to do with the Anker 10 port USB charger that has been recommended by several Cruise Critic members. In the description of this charger it does say it has surge suppression. This doesn't interfere with the ship's electrical system? I'm not an electrician, I thought anything that says surge suppression was illegal. I'm having a hard time finding anything that doesn't say some sort of surge suppression or surge protector. Thanks.

 

 

No surge suppression period.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2376178&highlight=surge+protectors

[Wavelet]

Thanks, just wanted to make sure before I bought it.

[Jackytar]

The reason power bars with surge suppressors or other protective devices is, as was mentioned above, because the way a ship's 120 v electrical supply is connected is different from on land.

 

TL;DR version now follows, for the techies in the crowd:

 

On land, your house has a 240 volt supply that comes into your power panel, in the form of two 120 volt buses and a neutral bus (your ground plug - the third, round one - also connects to the neutral bus). You can see this in your circuit breaker panel by looking at the circuits for your stove and dryer, as both of these use 240 volts, and you can tell because the circuit breakers are paired, with a little rod or tie piece to make them operate together. All the 120 volt circuits are one of the two 120 volt buses and the neutral bus. If you have a voltmeter and you measure from one of those buses to neutral, you get 120 volts. If you measure from one 120 volt bus to the other, you get 240 volts. All good so far, yes?

 

Most electronics these days don't use the ground plug. Instead, they use what's called a 'polarized' plug - one of the prongs is wider/taller than the other, and the receptacle has different size holes to match. This forces the plug to be inserted in only one orientation, unless you've been very, very foolish and filed the larger one down (do NOT ever do this). The larger one is the "hot" connection; it connects to the 120 volt bus. The smaller one connects to the neutral bus.

 

Now, on power bars with surge protection, circuit breakers, etc., the breaker is only on the "hot" side, with the large prong. If there's a problem, the breaker trips, and opens, and then there is no voltage in the power bar.

 

On a ship, however, it's different. On a ship, the power is distributed as two 60 volt buses. There is no neutral bus. The ground connection on the receptacle connects to the hull (it's used as earth, just as an actual earth rod is used with your house's power system)

 

So, if you measured on a ship from one prong to the other, you'd measure 120 volts. If you measured from each of the prongs to the ground prong, though, you'll get 60 volts, each way.

 

Now consider that power bar. If the surge suppression, which is designed to work with a land-based electrical system where it's 120 and neutral, trips the breaker, it will open what it thinks is the hot side, true. However, what would be the neutral side on land still has 60 volts on it on a ship. So the surge protection has NOT completely cut off power to your electronics and there could still be an electrical fire or other problem, because there's no protection on that side of the power bar.

 

It IS possible to buy power bars which have what are referred to as "double pole" circuit breakers or surge suppressors; these open both the hot and neutral sides, so they will protect properly even used onboard a ship. However understandably, Princess Lines and other cruise lines can't possibly inspect all the power bars cruisers might bring on board, nor can the cabin stewards and other hospitality staff be expected to be familiar with every possible brand and model of power bar. So it's just easier to confiscate all power bars in the interest of electrical safety.

 

(This would've been a lot easier to do with some embedded graphics. :D)

Edited July 17, 2016 by Jackytar

[chengkp75]

You're actually mixing circuit breakers and surge protectors. Circuit breakers open the hot leg on high current. A surge protector shunts voltage from the hot line to ground, and doesn't open anything.

 

Further, the ground pin in the outlet does not connect with the hull, it goes back to the neutral point on the generator. Because of this, the semi-conductors in the surge protector may see reverse voltage, which is harmful to the semi-conductors, which may fail and cause a fire.

[CMM]

Is there anything wrong with a standard household extension cord like this to use for a CPAP machine? We will be on the Star and would rather come prepared.

https://www.amazon.com/Axis-Power-Cord-Cable-45502/dp/B0073AADTI/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1468805653&sr=8-23&keywords=extension+cord+white

[chengkp75]

Is there anything wrong with a standard household extension cord like this to use for a CPAP machine? We will be on the Star and would rather come prepared.

https://www.amazon.com/Axis-Power-Cord-Cable-45502/dp/B0073AADTI/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1468805653&sr=8-23&keywords=extension+cord+white

 

That is perfectly fine.

[Lucky TGO]

Is there anything wrong with a standard household extension cord like this to use for a CPAP machine? We will be on the Star and would rather come prepared.

https://www.amazon.com/Axis-Power-Cord-Cable-45502/dp/B0073AADTI/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1468805653&sr=8-23&keywords=extension+cord+white

 

I take one just like that every year and no one has ever said anything to me.

Tony

[chengkp75]

The reason power bars with surge suppressors or other protective devices is, as was mentioned above, because the way a ship's 120 v electrical supply is connected is different from on land.

 

TL;DR version now follows, for the techies in the crowd:

 

On land, your house has a 240 volt supply that comes into your power panel, in the form of two 120 volt buses and a neutral bus (your ground plug - the third, round one - also connects to the neutral bus). You can see this in your circuit breaker panel by looking at the circuits for your stove and dryer, as both of these use 240 volts, and you can tell because the circuit breakers are paired, with a little rod or tie piece to make them operate together. All the 120 volt circuits are one of the two 120 volt buses and the neutral bus. If you have a voltmeter and you measure from one of those buses to neutral, you get 120 volts. If you measure from one 120 volt bus to the other, you get 240 volts. All good so far, yes?

 

Most electronics these days don't use the ground plug. Instead, they use what's called a 'polarized' plug - one of the prongs is wider/taller than the other, and the receptacle has different size holes to match. This forces the plug to be inserted in only one orientation, unless you've been very, very foolish and filed the larger one down (do NOT ever do this). The larger one is the "hot" connection; it connects to the 120 volt bus. The smaller one connects to the neutral bus.

 

Now, on power bars with surge protection, circuit breakers, etc., the breaker is only on the "hot" side, with the large prong. If there's a problem, the breaker trips, and opens, and then there is no voltage in the power bar.

 

On a ship, however, it's different. On a ship, the power is distributed as two 60 volt buses. There is no neutral bus. The ground connection on the receptacle connects to the hull (it's used as earth, just as an actual earth rod is used with your house's power system)

 

So, if you measured on a ship from one prong to the other, you'd measure 120 volts. If you measured from each of the prongs to the ground prong, though, you'll get 60 volts, each way.

 

Now consider that power bar. If the surge suppression, which is designed to work with a land-based electrical system where it's 120 and neutral, trips the breaker, it will open what it thinks is the hot side, true. However, what would be the neutral side on land still has 60 volts on it on a ship. So the surge protection has NOT completely cut off power to your electronics and there could still be an electrical fire or other problem, because there's no protection on that side of the power bar.

 

It IS possible to buy power bars which have what are referred to as "double pole" circuit breakers or surge suppressors; these open both the hot and neutral sides, so they will protect properly even used onboard a ship. However understandably, Princess Lines and other cruise lines can't possibly inspect all the power bars cruisers might bring on board, nor can the cabin stewards and other hospitality staff be expected to be familiar with every possible brand and model of power bar. So it's just easier to confiscate all power bars in the interest of electrical safety.

 

(This would've been a lot easier to do with some embedded graphics. :D)

 

While what you say about double pole circuit breaker power strips being safer on ships, it again has nothing to do with surge protectors, and the ship's circuit breaker will open both legs of the power.

[Jackytar]

Okay, I'm used to an ungrounded starpoint system :) Either way, the point about the neutral - or what would be neutral on a land installation - remains. As regards surge supressors - yes, some do as you say, shunting through MOSFETs. There are cheaper ones, though, that simply trip the breaker in the power bar. I'm not going to count on the ship's distribution breaker to trip necessarily, either. I remember seeing a three-phase immersion heater in a galley steamer that slagged, literally, while my ship was on shore power. The only breaker that tripped was the one at the jetty substation. You can bet there was a TI into why the none of the shipside breakers - distribution, feeder, bus tie and shore, to name but four - tripped. The Chief ERA was NOT amused. :)

[Wavelet]

The reason power bars with surge suppressors or other protective devices is, as was mentioned above, because the way a ship's 120 v electrical supply is connected is different from on land.

 

TL;DR version now follows, for the techies in the crowd:

 

On land, your house has a 240 volt supply that comes into your power panel, in the form of two 120 volt buses and a neutral bus (your ground plug - the third, round one - also connects to the neutral bus). You can see this in your circuit breaker panel by looking at the circuits for your stove and dryer, as both of these use 240 volts, and you can tell because the circuit breakers are paired, with a little rod or tie piece to make them operate together. All the 120 volt circuits are one of the two 120 volt buses and the neutral bus. If you have a voltmeter and you measure from one of those buses to neutral, you get 120 volts. If you measure from one 120 volt bus to the other, you get 240 volts. All good so far, yes?

 

Most electronics these days don't use the ground plug. Instead, they use what's called a 'polarized' plug - one of the prongs is wider/taller than the other, and the receptacle has different size holes to match. This forces the plug to be inserted in only one orientation, unless you've been very, very foolish and filed the larger one down (do NOT ever do this). The larger one is the "hot" connection; it connects to the 120 volt bus. The smaller one connects to the neutral bus.

 

Now, on power bars with surge protection, circuit breakers, etc., the breaker is only on the "hot" side, with the large prong. If there's a problem, the breaker trips, and opens, and then there is no voltage in the power bar.

 

On a ship, however, it's different. On a ship, the power is distributed as two 60 volt buses. There is no neutral bus. The ground connection on the receptacle connects to the hull (it's used as earth, just as an actual earth rod is used with your house's power system)

 

So, if you measured on a ship from one prong to the other, you'd measure 120 volts. If you measured from each of the prongs to the ground prong, though, you'll get 60 volts, each way.

 

Now consider that power bar. If the surge suppression, which is designed to work with a land-based electrical system where it's 120 and neutral, trips the breaker, it will open what it thinks is the hot side, true. However, what would be the neutral side on land still has 60 volts on it on a ship. So the surge protection has NOT completely cut off power to your electronics and there could still be an electrical fire or other problem, because there's no protection on that side of the power bar.

 

It IS possible to buy power bars which have what are referred to as "double pole" circuit breakers or surge suppressors; these open both the hot and neutral sides, so they will protect properly even used onboard a ship. However understandably, Princess Lines and other cruise lines can't possibly inspect all the power bars cruisers might bring on board, nor can the cabin stewards and other hospitality staff be expected to be familiar with every possible brand and model of power bar. So it's just easier to confiscate all power bars in the interest of electrical safety.

 

(This would've been a lot easier to do with some embedded graphics. :D)

 

Thank you. I'm not a techie, but my DH understood the explanation perfectly. It's much clearer now.

[chengkp75]

Thank you. I'm not a techie, but my DH understood the explanation perfectly. It's much clearer now.

 

Except for the fact that while it does point out a danger associated with consumer power strips, it does not explain why surge protectors are specifically banned.

 

Anything that "simply trips the circuit breaker" is not a surge protector, it is merely an over current protected device, and not a surge protector, despite advertising claims by the manufacturer.

 

Surge protectors use MOV's not MOSFET's to shunt high voltage to ground.

[Wavelet]

Thank you chengkp75 for the clarification. I'm surprised Princess doesn't sell the types that are allowed (they sell everything else ).

There seems to be a lot of confusion about acceptable devices. I can see a lot of cruisers not on this board having their residential power strips confiscated.

[floridalover5623]

Thank you chengkp75 for the clarification. I'm surprised Princess doesn't sell the types that are allowed (they sell everything else ��).

There seems to be a lot of confusion about acceptable devices. I can see a lot of cruisers not on this board having their residential power strips confiscated.

 

You would think that would be the case but it isn't. There are probably dozens of people on every cruise who bring surge protectors on every cruise & have never read the statement about them.

For some reason it doesn't appear to be that important an issue.

[Colo Cruiser]

Thank you chengkp75 for the clarification. I'm surprised Princess doesn't sell the types that are allowed (they sell everything else ��).

There seems to be a lot of confusion about acceptable devices. I can see a lot of cruisers not on this board having their residential power strips confiscated.

 

 

I agree.

[chengkp75]

Thank you chengkp75 for the clarification. I'm surprised Princess doesn't sell the types that are allowed (they sell everything else ��).

There seems to be a lot of confusion about acceptable devices. I can see a lot of cruisers not on this board having their residential power strips confiscated.

 

You would think that would be the case but it isn't. There are probably dozens of people on every cruise who bring surge protectors on every cruise & have never read the statement about them.

For some reason it doesn't appear to be that important an issue.

 

If you are interested in a two pole circuit breaker power strip, Google 220v power strips, this is what we use onboard. The voltage doesn't matter, and they will have universal plugs.

 

There is even more confusion with USB chargers. Many manufacturers claim their devices are surge protected, when they are only voltage regulated. My research leads me to believe that any chargers with a two prong plug is not surge protected.

[Astro Flyer]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about acceptable devices. I can see a lot of cruisers not on this board having their residential power strips confiscated.

 

Unfortunately not everyone reads the material Princess provides in our Cruise Personalizer under the Safety Information section:

 

https://book.princess.com/html/personalizer/downloads/pdf/Safety_Information.pdf

[Thrak]

I got this one on Amazon. It's not expensive and the cord folds around and plugs into the device so it's easy to pack. There are 2 outlets on each side for a total of 4.

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Thrak

[beg3yrs]

... I'm surprised Princess doesn't sell the types that are allowed (they sell everything else ��).

...

 

If Princess sold acceptable surge protectors, that would imply the power on the ship was not very good.

[chengkp75]

If Princess sold acceptable surge protectors, that would imply the power on the ship was not very good.

 

No, since surge protectors are not needed at all onboard, that would just be a money grab. Remember that none of the ship's electronics have surge protectors.