Security on River Cruises anyone concerned?

[editor@cruisecritic]

On my cruise last week around Bordeaux, amd1234, I definitely noticed some enhanced efforts by AmaWaterways (which was very candid in sharing some details with me about what it's started doing in the last month or so) and was inspired to write a post about it. Polled other river lines. Some have also made changes, others haven't (or didn't want to admit). The story's here:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=7176

 

Carolyn

 

 

Just read about raid on Avalon Cruise ship in the Amazon. We have been on four River cruises and with all the terror attacks we are staying away from Europe for awhile. On my bucket list was Istanbul .. No way! Do you think River Cruises especially France will have additional security? They are a soft target.

[TravelerThom]

The stairs, on most Vantage and GCT ships, to the sun deck are outside reception area on both sides. There is no need to enter the ship to go up to the sun deck; or, if you prefer, you have to go outside to access the sun deck stairs...

You are exactly right. That is the problem.

NOT USUALLY CORRECT for the Vantage trip on the Rhone which has been under discussion. That trip uses MS River Discovery II. Reception (which is the normal entry point) is on the Explorer (middle) deck. There is NO access at that point to the sun deck. The stairs to the sundeck are from the Navigator (upper) deck. Assuming that entry is made on the Explorer deck, it is necessary to enter the boat at Reception, go up an interior flight of stairs, go back outside through a door to get to the stairs to the sun deck. Deck plans here: http://www.vantagetravel.com/cruises/vantage-cruise-line-our-fleet/europe-deluxe-river-ships/ms-river-discoveryii

 

Depending on docking arrangements and how boats are rafted the entry point may be on other than the Explorer deck, but that is the normal entry.

 

Thom

[capriccio]

Nobody is in the bridge when the boat is docked.

 

Actually, not true on our cruise on AmaWaterways in Bordeaux last week; in port there was always an officer on the bridge.

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn Spencer Brown

Editor in Chief

Cruise Critic

 

We have had the captains on our 4 Uniworld ships address passengers about their jobs and responsibilities and on one cruise the captain took about 8 of us up to the bridge to discuss his job, the engineering involved, staffing, etc. I am pretty sure each of those captains told us that Uniworld always has an officer on the bridge at all times. Maybe someone else who has also cruised with Uniworld can confirm that.

 

Carolyn - To add to your article - Uniworld on 3 out of 4 of the ships we've been on in the past year had the photo ID process in use; the only one that didn't was one of their smaller ships (the River Baroness on the Seine this past May) where we were told it was out of order.

[editor@cruisecritic]

Thanks so much, Capriccio. I'd gotten conflicting info from Uniworld PR when researching the piece so went directly to the source there today, and he told me exactly what you're saying: The line has embedded photos onto key cards for the most part since 2013. Impressive. The line has made some enhancements to security procedures, he told me, particularly when it comes to deliveries (used to be that provisions' deliveries would be made right to the ship, now Uniworld crew come out, double check invoices, and transport all goods themselves).

 

Carolyn

 

We have had the captains on our 4 Uniworld ships address passengers about their jobs and responsibilities and on one cruise the captain took about 8 of us up to the bridge to discuss his job, the engineering involved, staffing, etc. I am pretty sure each of those captains told us that Uniworld always has an officer on the bridge at all times. Maybe someone else who has also cruised with Uniworld can confirm that.

 

Carolyn - To add to your article - Uniworld on 3 out of 4 of the ships we've been on in the past year had the photo ID process in use; the only one that didn't was one of their smaller ships (the River Baroness on the Seine this past May) where we were told it was out of order.

[capriccio]

T The line has made some enhancements to security procedures, he told me, particularly when it comes to deliveries (used to be that provisions' deliveries would be made right to the ship, now Uniworld crew come out, double check invoices, and transport all goods themselves).

 

Carolyn

 

We saw this in action on the Rhone cruise in June. We were told in advance by the sommelier and the cruise director that following our wine tasting on the excursion in Chateauneuf-du-Pape we might need to wait a few minutes while the tour guide or cruise director handled the ship's order. Cases were loaded into the luggage section of the tour bus and when we got to the ship about half the crew was spaced out from the curb down the ramp and into the ship to pass the cases. It was very efficient and not a case was dropped :D.

Edited August 18, 2016 by capriccio

[travelcs]

NOT USUALLY CORRECT for the Vantage trip on the Rhone which has been under discussion. That trip uses MS River Discovery II. Reception (which is the normal entry point) is on the Explorer (middle) deck. There is NO access at that point to the sun deck. The stairs to the sundeck are from the Navigator (upper) deck. Assuming that entry is made on the Explorer deck, it is necessary to enter the boat at Reception, go up an interior flight of stairs, go back outside through a door to get to the stairs to the sun deck. Deck plans here: http://www.vantagetravel.com/cruises/vantage-cruise-line-our-fleet/europe-deluxe-river-ships/ms-river-discoveryii

 

Depending on docking arrangements and how boats are rafted the entry point may be on other than the Explorer deck, but that is the normal entry.

 

Thom

 

The night this happened was July 24 and we were docked at Chalon-sur-Saône (Beaune & Burgundy) / Tournus. And you are right - I remember that the gang plank went to the navigator deck/ On this tour we had at least 2 dockings which used the navigator deck

[travelcs]

We have had the captains on our 4 Uniworld ships address passengers about their jobs and responsibilities and on one cruise the captain took about 8 of us up to the bridge to discuss his job, the engineering involved, staffing, etc. I am pretty sure each of those captains told us that Uniworld always has an officer on the bridge at all times. Maybe someone else who has also cruised with Uniworld can confirm that.

 

Carolyn - To add to your article - Uniworld on 3 out of 4 of the ships we've been on in the past year had the photo ID process in use; the only one that didn't was one of their smaller ships (the River Baroness on the Seine this past May) where we were told it was out of order.

 

On this Vantage tour, If the ship was docked and there were no sailing plans for the next number of hours, the Captains would lock the bridge and not use it.

[Mark_T]

On this Vantage tour, If the ship was docked and there were no sailing plans for the next number of hours, the Captains would lock the bridge and not use it.

 

Anyone else find that unusual?

 

Perhaps it is different on those ships but in my experience on these smaller ships, the bridge is usually the co-ordination point for all fire precautions and any other emergencies so I'd expect it to be manned at any time there were passengers onboard...

[xmaser]

It is not unusual on Vantage. On several cruises the bridge was not occupied when the ship was moored.

 

Hopefully, we can avoid casual generalizations when talking about all ships.

 

The issue here is control of access to the ship. Maybe the cruise lines will pay attention to the discussion here and protect their customers - who they want for repeat business.

[Got2Cruise]

There was an accusation made on this thread that "terrorists " went aboard a Vantage ship and started harassing pax. This is not something to sweep under the carpet if it is fact. What exactly were they doing?

[capriccio]

There was an accusation made on this thread that "terrorists " went aboard a Vantage ship and started harassing pax. This is not something to sweep under the carpet if it is fact. What exactly were they doing?

 

I asked that question 1 1/2 days ago and the poster, while he/she has answered other questions, has not yet responded.

 

I am glad you are no longer calling them terrorists since a) it seems to be a totally inaccurate description and b) it seems that the term was used to rile up and possibly frighten people.

 

In order to understand the incident better, can you please share with us the port you were in and

 

 

• Their physical actions: What exactly were they doing? You mentioned 'bothering everyone.' Were they trying to rob passengers? Where they accosting passengers? Where they threatening their well being?
  
• Their verbal actions: Were threats made? In what language? If not English, could one of the passengers understand them?
  

In your original post you wrote "I confronted them and told them to get the F&%& off the boat. After insuating (insulting?) each other for about 10 minutes, some passengers went down stairs to get some help." This still baffles me that anyone would forcefully argue with an intruder (or a terrorist) for 10 minutes before someone in the crowd thinks it might be wise to get staff assistance. Why confront them at all? Just get immediate assistance.

 

Finally, why would you think that the Vantage crew should physically accost them if they didn't physically hurt anyone?

[travelcs]

It is not unusual on Vantage. On several cruises the bridge was not occupied when the ship was moored.

 

Hopefully, we can avoid casual generalizations when talking about all ships.

 

The issue here is control of access to the ship. Maybe the cruise lines will pay attention to the discussion here and protect their customers - who they want for repeat business.

 

 

 

I appreciate the help from some of the members of this forum in discussing the security of river cruises. I have learned a lot but still have some lingering questions.

 

1. I had asked if any members had had a similar experience to mine (two unsavory males gained access to the top deck of the ship and were harassing passengers. I was the lucky passenger who was spit on). No one answered yes to this. Maybe my experience is the first. However, Caroline’s article http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=7176 indicates that another cruise line, AMAWaterways, has instituted a new ID card system whereby the card has an embedded photo of the passenger. The article says that this was done as a result of several “European tragedies”. That doesn’t sound like what happened to me, but in general, river cruise line are becoming more concerned with security.

2. Apparently on some Vantage ships and other lines’ if you board the ship at the navigator deck level, you can go up the steps to the top deck without having to enter the ship which requires a key card. On my cruise there was no one watching that stairway. Having a photo embedded in the key card would not have helped. Vantage did say that they hired a security firm to supply a 24/7 guard for the ship. I would not recommend making extreme changes to the card system, but we should pay more attention to the systems already in place. This would include a human watching the staircase to the upper deck any time the gangplank is attached to the navigator deck, a human watching any key card operated doors to the ship to prevent multiple people entering on one person’s card (I noticed this a lot), and watching for people inside the ship opening the door for someone outside the ship.

3. Is someone who enters a docked ship without permission breaking a law in France? If so, if the French Police were called, should and/or would they come and remove the person?

 

Please give me your comments on the above. How do you think the cruise lines could correct these faults in the security without using knee jerk solutions which would inflate the cost and lose the charm and simplicity?

[TravelerThom]

...went directly to the source there today, and he told me exactly what you're saying: The line has embedded photos onto key cards for the most part since 2013...

Most security systems that do not show your photo on the card do NOT embed the photo onto the key card. Any info embedded on the card can be hacked with only moderate skill. If you know what the bearer looks like any competent group (which unfortunately many terrorists are) can send a reasonable look-alike to gain access. For this reason passport RFIDs and most security systems contain a file number that allows the inspecting officer to access the photo etc from that file on their computer system (NOT from the card itself). Are you sure that you were told the photo was embedded? If so, did the person who told you that understand the difference between embedded and remotely accessed photos? Embedded photos are a rather poor approach to security.

 

Thom

[travelcs]

The person who told me that was Carolyn from this forum. I think she probably knows the difference, but thanks for the info.

[travelcs]

Actually, not true on our cruise on AmaWaterways in Bordeaux last week; in port there was always an officer on the bridge.

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn Spencer Brown

Editor in Chief

Cruise Critic

Thank you Carolyn for helping to moderate this thread. I don't think I am going to get any more useful replies from the forum. I would appreciate it if you could give me some closing remarks. Do you think the river cruise companies should or will make any upgrades in security?

 

Cliff

[editor@cruisecritic]

Hi, travelcs. I wrote this piece about my observations (and subsequent outreach to all major cruise lines), it's here: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=7176

 

Just the other day I heard about Amsterdam's plans to create more secure areas for riverboats. So yes, I feel like it's something that is being addressed. Great question, thanks for asking.

 

Carolyn

 

Thank you Carolyn for helping to moderate this thread. I don't think I am going to get any more useful replies from the forum. I would appreciate it if you could give me some closing remarks. Do you think the river cruise companies should or will make any upgrades in security?

 

Cliff

[CJcruzer]

I am not quite understanding needing your ship card to enter the ship..From what I recall, I never had to scan a card to go in and out...I thought the cards were a system enabling the ship to know if you were on or off the boat.... you give in your card whenever you leave, and receive a small card in return, with information of the port agent, telephone number, etc.

 

Carol

[laverendrye]

I am not quite understanding needing your ship card to enter the ship..From what I recall, I never had to scan a card to go in and out...I thought the cards were a system enabling the ship to know if you were on or off the boat.... you give in your card whenever you leave, and receive a small card in return, with information of the port agent, telephone number, etc.

 

Carol

 

The systems have changed, at least on Uniworld. You don't turn in your card but rather scan it at the desk as you leave and return. When the ship's doors are locked, you scan your card to open them.

[SCHappilyRetired]

I called AMA yesterday as our cruise is next week. They said a card is issued and needs to be used to gain access to the ship. However, when I asked her further about security (officers on deck, security at gate, rafting) she didn't quite know how to answer. Let's just say I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling about it! Guess I'll just find out next week.