Gratuities

[pcakes122]

Somehow it seems that many cruisers need to see the cruise line service people as 'poor' 'underpaid' victims.

 

post mirrors my own reaction to these gratuity threads and how it can veer into a weird territory where some espouse that the crew are basically serfs that we passengers have to care for like lords & ladies of the land or they won't survive.

Thank you both for getting the point I've been trying to make. :) It's unfortunate (and ironic) that sometimes those claiming to be proponents of the crew don't recognize their own bias. :(

[macandlucy]

In fairness, I'd guess some people might be concerned that the crew was underpaid given a bunch of articles over the past few years about how underpaid the crew is on cruise ships.

 

I don't think you can fault people for taking the time to question the truth of those reports, neither the people who were concerned they might be true or those who were skeptical about them.

[pcakes122]

In fairness, I'd guess some people might be concerned that the crew was underpaid given a bunch of articles over the past few years about how underpaid the crew is on cruise ships.

 

I don't think you can fault people for taking the time to question the truth of those reports, neither the people who were concerned they might be true or those who were skeptical about them.

I think the real issue was that when evidence was presented to the contrary, some people insisted their assumptions were correct. And then disparaged the folks presenting the actual evidence.

[NLH Arizona]

I think the real issue was that when evidence was presented to the contrary, some people insisted their assumptions were correct. And then disparaged the folks presenting the actual evidence.

What evidence? The only thing that has been posted are opinions of what some think is going on. No one has posted any more evidence then those that disagree are posting and both sides feel their assumptions are correct. I don't think the majority of those on here think that the crew is underpaid nor have they said that, sans a few posters. No one has disparaged the folks presenting their opinions, we are just disagreeing with their opinions, just as you are disagreeing with our opinions and if you think that is disparaging you, then you are doing the same to those that disagree with you. Edited September 9, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[pcakes122]

What evidence?

I posted a link to actual crew salaries as set and governed by the ITF. A link provided by my BIL who worked for NCL for 16 years of his life. Not sure why that is not acceptable as evidence.

[swedish weave]

What evidence? The only thing that has been posted are opinions of what some think is going on. No one has posted any more evidence then those that disagree are posting and both sides feel their assumptions are correct. I don't think the majority of those on here think that the crew is underpaid nor have they said that, sans a few posters. No one has disparaged the folks presenting their opinions, we are just disagreeing with their opinions, just as you are disagreeing with our opinions and if you think that is disparaging you, then you are doing the same to those that disagree with you.

 

I believe you posted that crew salaries were $50 to $200 per month, and I know that to be incorrect.

[SuiteCruiser]

I believe you posted that crew salaries were $50 to $200 per month, and I know that to be incorrect.

 

It's definitely incorrect.

[macandlucy]

I think the real issue was that when evidence was presented to the contrary, some people insisted their assumptions were correct. And then disparaged the folks presenting the actual evidence.

 

Personally, I have found this and other threads informative and helpful to me. Thank you for your contributions. I did read a couple of remarks that I felt implied a certain patronizing quality to passengers' concerns about crew pay. I don't think that's true for most; I think for some it's more of a morality/ethics/fairness issue -- say, the free trade coffee buying set, like me -- who really don't want to participate in something that is exploitative. But to know if it is or isn't, you need to ask a few questions and research it a bit, because there is a lack of transparency (rightly or wrongly) about crew compensation/DSC/tips.

 

I really wish people would find a way to communicate without making disparaging remarks, or at least understand that when one does that it only weakens their argument (among thinking people anyway).

[luddite]

I believe you posted that crew salaries were $50 to $200 per month, and I know that to be incorrect.

 

Their salaries and their pay are not the same.

[JVilleGal]

It is nobody's business but the crew member and the Cruiseline what their pay is. None of the passengers business!

 

 

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[macandlucy]

It is nobody's business but the crew member and the Cruiseline what their pay is. None of the passengers business!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

Some people in the world prefer to invest their money ethically. If you don't, that's your business, but as someone who tries to practice ethical investing it is very much my business, and frankly, kind of my responsibility, to know what kind of companies I am supporting.

[JVilleGal]

Some people in the world prefer to invest their money ethically. If you don't, that's your business, but as someone who tries to practice ethical investing it is very much my business, and frankly, kind of my responsibility, to know what kind of companies I am supporting.

 

Find another mode of travel if you don't like how a Cruiseline pays their employees. It is simply not YOUR business. That means take your wallet and walk and don't buy their stock!

[macandlucy]

Find another mode of travel if you don't like how a Cruiseline pays their employees. It is simply not YOUR business. That means take your wallet and walk and don't buy their stock!

 

Well, that was really my point -- if I didn't like how a cruise line was paying their employees, I wouldn't be a customer. From reading CC and other things, I feel pretty satisfied that the crew is adequately compensated, so I can, in good conscience, continue as a customer. But you can't know until you research it a bit, and that sometimes takes a bit of questioning, reading and discussion. All information and lots of opinion is useful to me.

 

But, we'll have to agree to disagree, I think, on what is and isn't MY business.

[JVilleGal]

Spend your vacation money elsewhere if you don't like it! The Cruiselines compensate and hire crew the same the world over. No one forces crew to sign a contract. These are adults who are seeking employment not necessarily available in their home countries.

 

 

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[AtlantaCruiser72]

I'll give my opinion on the whole issue of the DSC/gratuity.....

 

Each cruise line has recommended amounts/suggestions. I factor that amount into the total cost of my vacation planning and decision making. Once onboard if I find service to be exemplary from a particular crew member(s) I discreetly compensate them directly in excess of the DSC/gratuities. If I find service lacking to enough of an extent that I feel a remedy is needed I seek out a conversation with the department supervisor/manager to constructively discuss the situation while onboard. I do not adjust auto DSC/gratuities up or down, nor would I remove them.

 

What any cruiseline does with the DSC/gratuity, and how they compensate their employees is, to me, none of my affair. Each person who accepts an offer of employment anywhere, in any country, or any situation must decide if the compensation package being offered to them is acceptable. If crew aboard an NCL (or and other lines) ship have chosen to accept employment with that company then it is none of my business to question their compensation.

[Delmol]

can i just confirm what you are saying ,if you are from the UK,you can remove the DSC,or do you have to get a form and send it off when you return,I shall be tipping in cash

 

Yes you can just go to the reception/service desk on the last day and ask for it to be removed.

 

They will ask you to fill in a form and will refund the money (after it's been taken) within 3-4 weeks.

 

Though from personal experience if you refuse to fill in the form then they will just strike it from your bill.

[luddite]

Yes you can just go to the reception/service desk on the last day and ask for it to be removed.

 

They will ask you to fill in a form and will refund the money (after it's been taken) within 3-4 weeks.

 

Though from personal experience if you refuse to fill in the form then they will just strike it from your bill.

 

You don't actually do that, do you?

[easyboy]

It is nobody's business but the crew member and the Cruiseline what their pay is. None of the passengers business!

I don't relate the gratuities I pay with the crew's salary, like the auto service charges on restaurants inland.

I treat it as just a part of my bill that I willingly accepted beforehand.

[swedish weave]

You don't actually do that, do you?

 

Why not ??

 

I think the UK laws require cruise lines to handle in this manner. That is better than the US rules that allow the cruise line to make guests wait for their refunds.

[Shazbatty]

Yes you can just go to the reception/service desk on the last day and ask for it to be removed.

 

They will ask you to fill in a form and will refund the money (after it's been taken) within 3-4 weeks.

 

Though from personal experience if you refuse to fill in the form then they will just strike it from your bill.

 

Can I ask if you did this on your Aug 2016 cruise? I much prefer tipping personally as does my husband - can you not remove them in the first couple of days as on P&O

 

Cheers

[Delmol]

You don't actually do that, do you?

 

Why wouldn't I? I don't agree with tipping/gratuities and it's not something we do here in the UK.

 

Can I ask if you did this on your Aug 2016 cruise? I much prefer tipping personally as does my husband - can you not remove them in the first couple of days as on P&O

 

Cheers

 

Yes did this on my recent Aug 2016 cruise on the Spirit without any issues.

 

I'm not too sure, I think you can only remove the service charge on days that have already passed - but don't quote me on this one.

 

We always just wait til the last day when all charges have been applied and get them removed.

 

Hope this helps!

[fshagan]

My preference would be tacking most of the "tipping" to be added to the cost of cruise and to add it to base line wage of personnel....with the exception that we should tip the direct service people who work very hard to make our vacation special.

 

You are very, very close to how it is actually handled on NCL.

 

The daily charge that is added to your bill, the $13.50 per day per person for non-suite guests, is a charge you can pay with your final payment. Or you can wait and pay it at the end of your cruise. It is part of the revenue the cruise line collects to pay for all costs, including the workers. The workers are paid a contracted amount, broken up on their paycheck into "salary" and "tips" for tax purposes (some countries do not tax tip income, so this is a benefit to the worker).

 

They do not earn less or more on your individual cruise if you remove that daily charge; however, I believe it only makes sense that removing it forces your fellow cruisers to make up the difference, or will reduce pay and benefits the next time their home country union negotiates wages. Others disagree.

 

When you hire on as a ship worker you have a contracted amount. The waiters and waitresses earn from $10 to $12 an hour US - http://screencast.com/t/fcK4K5Dl This amount is 4 to 5 times the wage they would earn in their home countries if they are from the Philippines (the only country I checked). In the US, a couple with each partner earning that $24,000+ a year would put that couple just into the third of the five income quintiles ... very close to the median household income for all Americans. They earn a "living wage".

 

When you buy a beverage plan or drink on board, you pay 18% service charge. The bartenders on board earn a "living wage" much like the waitstaff, listed as both salary and gratuities for home country tax purposes, but earn more at about $3,600 a month. Based on the NCL 9 month "tours" for workers, that is $32,400 a year - http://screencast.com/t/2vcCJvboG. A couple who both worked as bartenders would have a household income above the median household income in America. They earn a "living wage".

 

All the workers earn a contracted amount that does not vary cruise by cruise. Cash given them by passengers is extra, and they keep it. So cash tips are surely appreciated. But they aren't necessary.

 

The cruise fare + the daily service charge + the 18% service charge on drinks all contribute to the funds that NCL uses to pay all expenses, including salaries.

 

My advice is to go with the flow and pre-pay the daily service charge with your cruise fare. There is never a mandatory dollar you have to pull out of your pocket after that.

[SuiteCruiser]

You are very, very close to how it is actually handled on NCL.

 

The daily charge that is added to your bill, the $13.50 per day per person for non-suite guests, is a charge you can pay with your final payment. Or you can wait and pay it at the end of your cruise. It is part of the revenue the cruise line collects to pay for all costs, including the workers. The workers are paid a contracted amount, broken up on their paycheck into "salary" and "tips" for tax purposes (some countries do not tax tip income, so this is a benefit to the worker).

 

They do not earn less or more on your individual cruise if you remove that daily charge; however, I believe it only makes sense that removing it forces your fellow cruisers to make up the difference, or will reduce pay and benefits the next time their home country union negotiates wages. Others disagree.

 

When you hire on as a ship worker you have a contracted amount. The waiters and waitresses earn from $10 to $12 an hour US - http://screencast.com/t/fcK4K5Dl This amount is 4 to 5 times the wage they would earn in their home countries if they are from the Philippines (the only country I checked). In the US, a couple with each partner earning that $24,000+ a year would put that couple just into the third of the five income quintiles ... very close to the median household income for all Americans. They earn a "living wage".

 

When you buy a beverage plan or drink on board, you pay 18% service charge. The bartenders on board earn a "living wage" much like the waitstaff, listed as both salary and gratuities for home country tax purposes, but earn more at about $3,600 a month. Based on the NCL 9 month "tours" for workers, that is $32,400 a year - http://screencast.com/t/2vcCJvboG. A couple who both worked as bartenders would have a household income above the median household income in America. They earn a "living wage".

 

All the workers earn a contracted amount that does not vary cruise by cruise. Cash given them by passengers is extra, and they keep it. So cash tips are surely appreciated. But they aren't necessary.

 

The cruise fare + the daily service charge + the 18% service charge on drinks all contribute to the funds that NCL uses to pay all expenses, including salaries.

 

My advice is to go with the flow and pre-pay the daily service charge with your cruise fare. There is never a mandatory dollar you have to pull out of your pocket after that.

 

Well said!

[laslomas]

The reason is that they want to receive good service throughout the the cruise, they're just to cheap to pay for it...

 

I do not understand this comment. Surely when one pays a fare for a cruise it is with the expectation of receiving good service throughout as part of the deal.

[sjbdtz]

Why wouldn't I? I don't agree with tipping/gratuities and it's not something we do here in the UK.

 

 

Umm... every time I've traveled in the UK, I've had to pay for the service. Either it's Service Included, or it's Service NOT Included.....but it's always me paying for it.

 

I'm in Seoul right now, and nobody expects "extra" cash beyond what the register price says. BUT the register price is insane. Everything has been marked-up to include higher salaries.

 

 

No matter what the mechanism, you always are expected to pay the costs of your service. Disagreeing with the mechanism isn't a reason to walk away from your obligations.

 

 

Stephen

 

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