Minimal choice for New York departures

[navybankerteacher]

Has anyone noticed how few regular sailings there are from New York? Essentially the only options are RC Anthem and NCL Breakaway and Gem- with just 7 or 10 day itineraries to the Bahamas and Caribbean; while from southeast Florida alone (just Miami and Fort Lauderdale) there are close to a dozen lines with a much greater range of itineraries.

 

It would seem to me that the many millions living within a short drive to Manhattan or Bayonne would represent a sufficient market to encourage greater competition. Certainly the avoidance of hassle, and the cost savings from avoiding flights and pre- and post-cruise hotels, would enable other lines to charge higher fares than they can on their Florida sailings.

 

Finally, it seems rediculous for such a large market to just be offered the NCL experience or the jumbo-sized Anthem as their only local options.

 

Any thoughts ?

[fritolayNY]

I agree, probably the cold keeps them away. Boston has a few (Celebrity, Royal, and NCL) during the summers and Baltimore has Royal and Carnival (except January thru March). Princess has the Regal (only for a few) out of NYC too. Most go to Canada in the fall, and Bermuda and the Bahamas.

 

I think it is the distance. Most cruises to other places are more than the 7/8 day cruise requiring passengers to take off more than a weeks worth of work. I may be wrong to assume, but I believe this severely limits the number of potential cruisers.

 

 

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[baileymouse]

Anthem sails from up here because the Quantum ships are better cold-weather ships.

 

NYC does have Carnival, Crystal, Holland America, Princess, Cunard, Silversea, Oceania, Viking and Disney. Bayonne has Anthem and the Celebrity Summit. Most of the cruises aren't year-round because of weather. They go where there's demand.

[navybankerteacher]

Anthem sails from up here because the Quantum ships are better cold-weather ships.

 

NYC does have Carnival, Crystal, Holland America, Princess, Cunard, Silversea, Oceania, Viking and Disney. Bayonne has Anthem and the Celebrity Summit. Most of the cruises aren't year-round because of weather. They go where there's demand.

 

How many sailings per year from New York are offered by: Crystal, Holland America, Princess, Silversea, Oceania, Viking, Disney, or even Cunard (other than T/A's to Southampton? Question was about REGULAR sailings.

[baileymouse]

Cunard does Canadian cruises, there's a few leaving this month and next. They have 7 and 14 day itineraries for NE and Canada.

 

Many of the rest sail regularly from April - October before repositioning. Like I said, it's a question of weather and demand. Most people can't take more than a week off of work and sailing during the colder months means you have a vacation that starts off freezing. Most people in the Northeast don't want that. If demand were there they'd offer it.

[thinfool]

It really is all about the money.

 

If a cruise line could fill a ship without heavy discounts for 12 months a year, the ship(s) would be there.

 

You will notice that many ships, some still under construction, are being ported in Asia/Australia. I take that to mean that ships are sailing full without heavy discounts.

[marco]

The last time we sailed out of NYC was on the "Veendam" to Bermuda in June. For whatever reason, they now do that out of Boston. A couple of years prior to that we sailed on the "Noordam" in January 11 days to the Caribbean. I think they did that for 3 or 4 years and we did it twice. The last time we did it, we got fairly friendly with one of the staff (and we knew that would be the last year they would be doing it) and he told us "the demographics are such on the NY longer winter sailings that the per diem on board spending is significantly less than Fla departures". It's no secret that with low fares, all the lines make their revenue on on board spending, not the base cruise fare. Years back, we always sailed on the Home Lines "Oceanic" longer winter cruises out of NY or one of the transAtlanic liners which did a lot of winter cruising out of NY. Getting into the gulf stream the 2nd day, the weather is not as bad as a lot of folks might suspect. I too, would like to see more options year 'round out of NY/NJ. We now do an annual winter cruise to the Caribbean out of Fla and every year on the questionnaire, I always say, "bring a ship to NY/NJ year round", however at this point I guess it's nothing more than wishful thinking

[Laurab23]

I wish there were more sailings from NY or NJ. I don't fly and summer cruises are too expensive and too many kids. April or May are great times for cruising but not as many options as before. Even Carnival doesn't start sailing from NYC until the very end of June.

 

Laura

[Twickenham]

Has anyone noticed how few regular sailings there are from New York? Essentially the only options are RC Anthem and NCL Breakaway and Gem- with just 7 or 10 day itineraries to the Bahamas and Caribbean; while from southeast Florida alone (just Miami and Fort Lauderdale) there are close to a dozen lines with a much greater range of itineraries.

 

It would seem to me that the many millions living within a short drive to Manhattan or Bayonne would represent a sufficient market to encourage greater competition. Certainly the avoidance of hassle, and the cost savings from avoiding flights and pre- and post-cruise hotels, would enable other lines to charge higher fares than they can on their Florida sailings.

 

Finally, it seems rediculous for such a large market to just be offered the NCL experience or the jumbo-sized Anthem as their only local options.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Well, first, a little perspective: before 9/11, there were literally no sailings from NY in the winter - it was limited to the summer Bermuda season and fall foliage cruises. Post-9/11, the trend was born to seek out non-FL home ports to attract those reluctant to fly - Charleston, Baltimore, Philadelphia and even Norfolk got ships, as well as year-round cruises from NYC. But the distance between NYC and the Caribbean, with the associated higher costs (more fuel burned travelling that distance, and I'm thinking re-supplying is probably more expensive in NYC as well) makes the economics more difficult.

 

Trust me when I say the lines have studied the market extensively, and have their own hard sales data - if they could make more money positioning a ship in NYC year-round, they would do just that. Ultimately, the market decides what it will bear, and market conditions still make it more profitable to position most of their ships in Florida in the winter.

[navybankerteacher]

Well, first, a little perspective: before 9/11, there were literally no sailings from NY in the winter - it was limited to the summer Bermuda season and fall foliage cruises. Post-9/11, the trend was born to seek out non-FL home ports to attract those reluctant to fly - Charleston, Baltimore, Philadelphia and even Norfolk got ships, as well as year-round cruises from NYC. But the distance between NYC and the Caribbean, with the associated higher costs (more fuel burned travelling that distance, and I'm thinking re-supplying is probably more expensive in NYC as well) makes the economics more difficult.

 

Trust me when I say the lines have studied the market extensively, and have their own hard sales data - if they could make more money positioning a ship in NYC year-round, they would do just that. Ultimately, the market decides what it will bear, and market conditions still make it more profitable to position most of their ships in Florida in the winter.

 

I believe you are right - generally; but feel that with creative marketing there exists a substantial potential for lines to attract the demographic which likes neither the large ship experience offered by Anthem, or Breakaway - or the NCL experience on the Gem -- all of which are lower end. Considering the cost and inconvenience of flying to Florida which could be avoided, it seems that either HAL or Celebrity should be able to operate profitably by positioning themselves as an alternative.

[thinfool]

but feel that with creative marketing there exists a substantial potential for lines to attract the demographic

 

Attracting a targeted demographic is tricky business. Princess has a targeted itinerary currently available on the West Coast.

Los Angeles to Alaska (round trip)

 

There is obviously a market for this itinerary, but it is only being offered once in the current scheduling. Filling a ship for continuous sailings at profitable rates is radically different than filling it for one sailing.

 

Back to NYC....demographics exist, but for whatever reason, cruise lines do not see that successful and profitable occupancies exist for multiple sailings.

 

IMO, sailings from NYC need to be 10+ days and likely make port calls in the (boring) Bahamas. Passengers who can afford time and money for 10+ day sailings would rather travel (plane, train, auto) to Florida for better itineraries to more interesting places.

Edited September 13, 2016 by thinfool

[Brighton Line]

NCL even tried going to 9 days in the winter, you still spend 4 of them going down the coast.

Carnival didn't do 7 days from NY to Florida/Bahamas, it was 8 days same itinerary as NCL but average speed was slower.

Now Carnival is dropping their short cruises to Canada and doing them to Bermuda, go figure.

[fred30]

It's also the destinations that make it harder for sailing out of NY area. Unless the cruises go over 8 days they are general limited to:

Bermuda, Canada and New England, Port Everglades, Nassau and one of the cruise lines private islands.

In the winter there are virtually no short cruises that are offered as it takes 2 days to get to warmer weather.

[mikeriv79]

This an unfortunate reality my wife and I realized a few years ago when we sailed out of NY. If we want more options with itinerary and/or cruiselines, we would have to travel to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale. NCL and Royal Caribbean invested heavily in the area, so perhaps they see the value of a home port in NY and NJ. Other cruiselines probably feel that they can't break into the market share because of that fact.

[fred30]

I thought NCL made a brilliant move with the Breakaway doing the 7 day weekend to weekend cruises to Bermuda all season long.

Bermuda is pretty much maxed out at the dockyard so until they add additional capacity don't expect much to change up here.

[jpcello]

Royal does a 9-day cruise on Grandeur from Baltimore to Florida/Bahamas. I believe it's offer most of the year - we did it in January. Baltimore is an easy drive from NY area.

[Brighton Line]

Royal does a 9-day cruise on Grandeur from Baltimore to Florida/Bahamas. I believe it's offer most of the year - we did it in January. Baltimore is an easy drive from NY area.

 

I did the Carnival Pride out of Baltimore, one way car rental down to BWI (great rate for 24 hours) and Bolt bus back.

 

Baltimore is limited to the type of ships that can call there due to the height of the bridges.