Flight from FLL; is 9:00 too early?

[tatt2ed]

The airlines consider this practice as fraudulent. Don't believe it? Search for an article I read online about several Lifetime AA Airpass members who paid $100,000 only to have their lifetime passes revoked for similar practices.

 

Most major hotel chains disclose on their websites that they reserve the right to cancel any and all reservations which they believe to be the result of fraudulent activity.

 

One passenger is reserving two seats and potentially displacing another passenger (last minute booking.) It's true that years ago I remember AA would "protect" an alternative route for Elite level (did it for me at PLAT & EXPLAT) when a connection looked iffy, by double booking. But a number of years now they said they aren't permitted to do that.

 

Furthermore, if the pax misses the first flight, then points out the reason (refundable tix canceled) for the opening on the second flight, a rule following gate agent may (behind the scenes) refer it to revenue management if the pax has a FF account. Meanwhile, that same gate agent would explain that there is a waitlist which the pax may fall near the bottom. Vindictively the gate agent who knows that in reality this pax who broke the rules but has enough status to jump up the waitlist.... this gate agent may just NOT enter the pax's name on the list, so they don't get on the flight, processing the others.

 

So, all this being said, do it once or twice, and you may or may NOT get caught. That's what the Lifetime AAirpass members in question did (among other things. These are passes that allow F class flights for the holder and a guest) and eventually AA caught on and revoked their cards without any refund.

Thats complete BS, ive booked the seat next to me on flight just so i could have 2 tray tables and the extra room. You can book the whole damn plane if you wanted. If you pay for 2 seats its not illegal. Ive seen people book seats for their carry on dogs too.

[lstone19]

Thats complete BS, ive booked the seat next to me on flight just so i could have 2 tray tables and the extra room. You can book the whole damn plane if you wanted. If you pay for 2 seats its not illegal. Ive seen people book seats for their carry on dogs too.

 

 

 

There is a big difference between booking a second seat on the same flight and seats on two different flights where it is physically impossible for you to use both reservations. The former is legal; the latter is not.

 

For the OP, call the airline and be sue to say that the INVOLUNTARY change is not acceptable. The word "involuntary" opens up a lot of options that are not possible for voluntary changes. If you are bored and read the details of the ticket rules, you'll find "involuntary" used a lot.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mo_Cruising]

Yes, 9 am is too early. Read the fine print on the princess website, I think 9:30 is the minimum time they recommend. Assuming the ship docks at 6 am.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Mo_Cruising]

Sorry, I just reread the guidelines. They say you should allow 4.5 hours after we get to Ft Lauderdale. That should be 10:30!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Lucky TGO]

Thank You, for the information about the INVOLUNTARY CHANGE not being acceptable. It's good to know!!

tony

[shutterbug12]

The end of January is the start of tourist season. Even with TSA-Pre, there'll still be a wait to get through Security. I have GE and TSA-Pre and fly Business or First and would never consider a flight before 10:30-11am. I've cruised many times out of FLL so I know there can be delays disembarking and at the airport.

 

While it is possible to make the flight, I don't think it's wise to attempt it.

 

I think it's important to note that as Pam mentioned, OP is traveling during peak season in FLL. With 7 ships in port, customs can get backed up quickly, and you never know what kind of crowds you can expect at the airport (even early in the morning).

 

We cruise out of FLL at the end of January every year. Sometimes everything goes smoothly and we are at the boarding gate at 7:40. Other times we make it to the gate 2 hours later. I would not feel comfortable with a flight any earlier than 10:30.

 

We have had the airline change our flight schedule, but I called them and there was no issue in selecting a different flight at no cost.

[lstone19]

Thank You, for the information about the INVOLUNTARY CHANGE not being acceptable. It's good to know!!

tony

 

While why the change is not acceptable should not be something the airline should need to ask, it's not going to hurt to be prepared to tell them that 9:00am violates the "minimum connecting time" (MCT) for your connection from the ship to the plane. If it were a same-ticket air connection, an MCT violation would force re-accomodation. While ship to air on separate tickets has no such protection, mentioning MCT gets you further into airline jargon where the representative you're talking to will know what to do. That way you can avoid things like "how likely are you to make it by 9:00" and just say "their change has caused an MCT violation so needs to be changed".

[Grego]

So, have we convinced the OP that a 9:00 flight is not a good idea but rather a bad idea? Hopefully, there is a flight closer to 10:30 that would work a lot better. Nothing worse that getting off a restful voyage and then blow it on a very anxious event.

[diane.in.ny]

I hope the OP comes back and lets us know the end result of all this.

[tatt2ed]

There is a big difference between booking a second seat on the same flight and seats on two different flights where it is physically impossible for you to use both reservations. The former is legal; the latter is not.

 

For the OP, call the airline and be sue to say that the INVOLUNTARY change is not acceptable. The word "involuntary" opens up a lot of options that are not possible for voluntary changes. If you are bored and read the details of the ticket rules, you'll find "involuntary" used a lot.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So if i book a flight and miss it they will arrest me ? Sounds highly unlikely , thousands of people miss flights everyday. Or is that why our jails are so overcrowded? Guess what if i book a flight and miss it the airlines win. Im sure the FBI isnt looking for me. Lol

[peety3]

The airlines consider this practice as fraudulent. Don't believe it? Search for an article I read online about several Lifetime AA Airpass members who paid $100,000 only to have their lifetime passes revoked for similar practices.

 

Furthermore, if the pax misses the first flight, then points out the reason (refundable tix canceled) for the opening on the second flight, a rule following gate agent may (behind the scenes) refer it to revenue management if the pax has a FF account. Meanwhile, that same gate agent would explain that there is a waitlist which the pax may fall near the bottom. Vindictively the gate agent who knows that in reality this pax who broke the rules but has enough status to jump up the waitlist.... this gate agent may just NOT enter the pax's name on the list, so they don't get on the flight, processing the others.

Show me the rule. This is not fraudulent. I've just reviewed the entire Contract of Carriage for United (as just one example, admittedly), and at most, UA has the right to cancel all future reservations held by the passenger if the passenger no-shows (Rule 5C). Rule 5H covers bookings intended to reserve seats for a lower fare, which this is not. If you want to get snippy about it, then just ignore the missed non-refundable flight and use the refundable second flight. There's no fare games going on then, and at most you might be able to re-use the unused segments of the NR flight after a change fee. This is also not Hidden-City ticketing, Throwaway ticketing, or Back-to-Back ticketing.

 

At most, the airline could call it improper via Rule 5H, where it calls out multiple flights for the same passenger on or about the same date between the same or similar cities. It's not fraudulent, though: it's done with the intention of "purchasing" a seat on multiple options, because for some people, "getting home" is more important than "lowest price".

[rbt001]

Show me the rule. This is not fraudulent. I've just reviewed the entire Contract of Carriage for United (as just one example, admittedly), and at most, UA has the right to cancel all future reservations held by the passenger if the passenger no-shows (Rule 5C). Rule 5H covers bookings intended to reserve seats for a lower fare, which this is not. If you want to get snippy about it, then just ignore the missed non-refundable flight and use the refundable second flight. There's no fare games going on then, and at most you might be able to re-use the unused segments of the NR flight after a change fee. This is also not Hidden-City ticketing, Throwaway ticketing, or Back-to-Back ticketing.

 

At most, the airline could call it improper via Rule 5H, where it calls out multiple flights for the same passenger on or about the same date between the same or similar cities. It's not fraudulent, though: it's done with the intention of "purchasing" a seat on multiple options, because for some people, "getting home" is more important than "lowest price".

 

The obvious doesn't require a rule. When one purchases a ticket for a particular flight, it explicitly implies intent to fly on that flight. Purchasing a second ticket for another flight which would be impossible to board, since you've already on the first flight is fraud. "I, John Doe, have purchased a ticket to fly on your Fort Lauderdale to Los Angeles flight that leaves today at 9:00 am and I also bought a ticket to fly on your 11:00 am flight between the same points."

 

Perhaps if we were talking about two "courtesy holds" for the flights it would be different, allowing one to decide.

 

But the minute a ticket is purchased both parties have entered into a contract.

 

Remember, the gate agent is judge and jury. I can just see a sniveling pax told both flights are canceled whining: "But you didn't SAY I couldn't," only for a gate agent to pull out their smart phone to let the pax read what was on their screen found on the internet:

 

fraud (noun) wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

 

And so I'm absolutely clear here, let me break down what applies:

 

wrongful deception intended to result in personal gain.

 

But if you're still insistent that you're right, I urge you to read an interesting article in the LA Times, which you can find online searching on its title:

 

 

The frequent fliers who flew too much

 

Here's a quote:

 

To Cade [an American Airlines employee that "...was promoted to the elite revenue integrity team, charged with rooting out passengers, travel agents and others suspected of cheating the airline."], this was evidence that Rothstein [a lifetime Airpass Holder] reserved flights he never intended to take. It also allowed him to hold seats until the last minute and offer them to strangers, she said later in court depositions, preventing American from selling them. Cade decided it was fraud and grounds for revocation.

 

 

 

So again, to the OP, rebook, and rebook just ONE flight.

[lstone19]

Peety3, use your favorite search engine to search for "united airlines impossible booking" and your will find it listed as a "prohibited practice".

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peety3]

Peety3, use your favorite search engine to search for "united airlines impossible booking" and your will find it listed as a "prohibited practice".

You win.

 

Still not FRAUD, but disallowed by policy.

 

Hey OP, go book a refundable flight on any OTHER airline that's at a much safer time, and cancel it if you make your original flight. There you go...

[CruiseVA]

Go for it, the worst that could happen is that you miss that flight & then have AA rebook you for a later flight. Given the other details you've supplied, re-booking the flight shouldn't be an issue.

[rbt001]

You win.

 

Still not FRAUD, but disallowed by policy.

 

Hey OP, go book a refundable flight on any OTHER airline that's at a much safer time, and cancel it if you make your original flight. There you go...

 

From the same United rules, #11 is Duplicate Bookings:

 

"Duplicate Bookings also include, but are not limited to, a similar or same itinerary booked on both United and another air carrier."

 

And fraud doesn't need to be criminal activity to be fraud, simply "wrongful deception intended to result in personal gain."

 

The airline says it's prohibited, which means it's wrong

It's deceptive to claim to be traveling on two flights impossible to do so by time, and

It was for personal gain

 

= fraud

[jennybenny]

All,

 

I will be on the Royal arriving in FLL January 29 at 0600. I am an Elite passenger staying in a suite. Do you think I'll be OK, time wise, with a 9:00 flight (first class)? I'll take a cab from the stand, which I think will be fastest... also, FYI, I have Global Entry and TSA Pre-Check.

 

As luck would have it, the port will be busy that morning -- 7 ships are in port that day.

 

I feel fairly good about it -- just need thoughts from others before I commit. The airlines changed my 11am flight (of course, no notification -- I happened to log on and see the change). When I called them, they could have cared less about failing to contact me or about the change! LOL...

 

Finally, do you think I should carry my luggage off or will I be OK having it delivered to the warehouse?

 

Thanks, everybody!

 

Way too early for me. The likelihood of making that flight seems like a best case scenario with the stars aligned.

 

Given that the airline changed the flight, they should re-book you on a later flight at no cost to you.

 

I travel for work and have had many close calls and MANY missed flights. My last was an international flight into JFK, because of weather issues there were many flights in waiting to land. Immigration was outrageous and I missed my connection (I was in first class, so that didn't help). Because it was not the airline's fault I had to pay for my own hotel.

I prefer to have some extra time at an airport then miss my flight. The hassle when going from one coast to the other is a pain when flights are missed.

 

Whatever you decide, good luck!

[land lover]

Since the airline made the change, they should be willing to change your flight to a later one at no charge to you.ABSOLUTELY....

 

80% of the time you might make that flight, but 20% of the time you might not.

 

Go for it, worst that can happen is that you r added to a later flight, the one you booked originally. You might lose your FC, oh well.

 

But then again, I am one who always flies in on the day of the cruise;):D

Edited November 5, 2016 by land lover

[Grimsby]

We also will try to make that American Airlines 900a departure.The Regal gets in on December 18th.

Hopefully, we'll disembark early. The snafu for us will ....................

 

Last February Royal Princess was delayed 3 hours leaving the last port of call, the night before the scheduled arrival at Fort Lauderdale, because of a mechanical malfunction. Fortunately, the Captain was able to make up some of this lost time. Nevertheless, we were much later than expected arriving in Fort Lauderdale.

 

Because there is always this possibility of a late arrival, we never book a departing flight before noon.

[kstrittm]

I changed flights... I now leave FLL at 1:17. It's quite a delay, but after weighing the risks, I agreed with many that it wouldn't be worth the stress (during the cruise and in the event of a delay that morning). So I'll be hanging out on the ship until they kick me off! Thanks everybody for your input...

[pablo222]

I changed flights... I now leave FLL at 1:17. It's quite a delay, but after weighing the risks, I agreed with many that it wouldn't be worth the stress (during the cruise and in the event of a delay that morning). So I'll be hanging out on the ship until they kick me off! Thanks everybody for your input...

 

deleted.

Edited November 12, 2016 by pablo222

[notentirelynormal]

I changed flights... I now leave FLL at 1:17. It's quite a delay, but after weighing the risks, I agreed with many that it wouldn't be worth the stress (during the cruise and in the event of a delay that morning). So I'll be hanging out on the ship until they kick me off! Thanks everybody for your input...

 

For the fun of it, please come back and let us know if you would have made it without the change.

[cruiselvr1]

Just curious why you mention that you are in a suite and flying first class. The only advantage of being Elite is that you can pick your time to leave but if you had an early flight I'm sure they would give it to you anyway. They did me. As far as the suite, same thing. Early flight they'd give it to you anyway. First class? I'm guessing the first class seats leave at the same time as the coach seats on the plane, just airborne a few seconds sooner.

 

Basically you are just wondering if you could make a 9:00 am flight. TSA and precheck are the only important part of your question.

Normally first line is a lot shorter, and if you have an early flight you will need it.

[cruiselvr1]

American Airlines... I verified that my contact info was correct. I asked the reservation agent why I had not been notified, and she said, "I reckon they just didn't get around to it yet". Really.

I knew it was American before u said it. They are know for problems, and not being very responsive.

[wblynch]

We never did find out if she made her flight...