Silversea Water Cooler: Part 3, Welcome!

[mdpa]

Don't believe what you read in the news across the pond. Trump won the election for a reason.

 

Many people wanted to get rid of the Obama legacy and the overtly politically correct environment that led to segregation and discrimination. I didn't think it was possible to slice and dice people into so many different categories.

 

Trump wasn't my first choice (almost my last on the conservative side). That being said, I have been pleasantly surprised so far.

[ernieb]

Let's remember that the only reason Trump did not win the popular vote was due to extreme liberalism in 2 highly populated areas. If you look at a map of all the counties voting in the election it is almost totally red with almost no blue.

[spinnaker2]

Isn't it wonderful that we can voice our opinions or talk about opposing views or differing thoughts without fear of retaliation.

Regrettably it's often hard to sift through what is actually true vs. the news as it is reported by the media.

But that is nothing new...

[Stumblefoot]

Isn't it wonderful that we can voice our opinions or talk about opposing views or differing thoughts without fear of retaliation.

Amen!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Travelcat2]

Still trying to figure out if most people from the U.K. are for or against Brexit (my British DH is for it). Also appreciate the interest that everyone has in terms of what is going on in the U.S.

 

While I did vote for Trump, for me, it was the lesser of two evils. I actually was in favor of another candidate (one that would have likely defeated Trump because there is no "dirt" to spread about him).

 

I do agree with protecting U.S. borders (and U.K borders as well), but U.S. citizens (as well as illegals) are going ballistic about the whole thing. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't one of the reasons that the U.K. wanted to exit the European Union was due to the fact that they were required to accept refugees (whether their background were checked out or not)?

 

My heart goes out to refugees but it seems that there some terrorists that have infiltrated - posing as refugees. This has increased terrorism in some parts of Europe.

 

Wish that I knew the answer (and I'm sure that most of us feel the same way). In terms of the U.S., we need to do whatever is required to keep terrorists from entering our country. Having said that, I saw an old "60 Minutes" television program that showed how much scrutiny that refugees go through before they can enter the U.S. I have no problem whatsoever in welcoming these immigrants.

 

Hoping for a more positive future for both of our countries.

[jpalbny]

Jeff, I didn't know she had it in her... ;)

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/legally-i-can-kill-him-queen-confirms-20170131121313

[jillyf]

We are at Yangon airport waiting to fly to Delhi via Singapore.

Loved our time here. Would have spent more than our 3 nights at Inle Lake.

Arrive in Delhi tonight, then Varanasi tomorrow.

Pity we don't cross paths JP. Safe travels and look forward to reading about it.

Our blog if anyone is interested- thefletchers.com.au

[UKCruiseJeff]

Don't believe what you read in the news across the pond. Trump won the election for a reason.

 

Many people wanted to get rid of the Obama legacy and the overtly politically correct environment that led to segregation and discrimination. I didn't think it was possible to slice and dice people into so many different categories.

 

 

Thanks ...... as it happens I was the only person I knew who was predicting a Trump win .... and I don't think I read anything in the UK press that influenced my own theories whether they are right or wrong .....

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51475152&postcount=4825

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2249318&page=242

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=51520199&postcount=4859

 

Good Morning Coolers,

 

To be honest I'm surprised at the degree of shock with these results. As I posted a few days ago I have felt that the polls hadn't added any subjective intelligence to the objective results they thought they were seeing and it seemed clear to me that Trump was on target to win which wasn't making me cheerful.

 

We are where we are, and sadly it seems to me that what America's establishment has cunningly managed to do is to cement together so many marginilised minorities into one marginilised majority cemented together with a range of disparate reasons. What is worrying is how these marginilised will almost inevitably start to feel even more marginilised and what they hoped they were buying is not what they will be receiving. The way that Trump is likely to deal with civil unrest after the honeymoon, if there is one, is going to define the next few years.

 

Trump may try to confound our expectations of him. He may surround himself with experienced wise people and create an environment where he welcomes people that argue and confront him and become a considered thinking listener, but then the moon might also be made of cheese.

 

Jeff

 

Trump wasn't my first choice (almost my last on the conservative side). That being said, I have been pleasantly surprised so far.

 

As a strong Trump supporter, I agree with almost everything the man is attempting to accomplish. I think the cabinet he has nominated is excellent and that the Dems are being obstructive to the detriment of the country.

 

Also had Trump not prevailed I think there would be a much better case for a second Clinton impeachment than ever will be the case for Trump.

 

Thanks both .......

 

Do you believe that as a result of his border control orders that he has made both America and Americans safer ...... and if so why? Would very much appreciate hearing your reasons.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

[UKCruiseJeff]

Still trying to figure out if most people from the U.K. are for or against Brexit (my British DH is for it). Also appreciate the interest that everyone has in terms of what is going on in the U.S.

 

While I did vote for Trump, for me, it was the lesser of two evils. I actually was in favor of another candidate (one that would have likely defeated Trump because there is no "dirt" to spread about him).

 

I do agree with protecting U.S. borders (and U.K borders as well), but U.S. citizens (as well as illegals) are going ballistic about the whole thing. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't one of the reasons that the U.K. wanted to exit the European Union was due to the fact that they were required to accept refugees (whether their background were checked out or not)?

 

My heart goes out to refugees but it seems that there some terrorists that have infiltrated - posing as refugees. This has increased terrorism in some parts of Europe.

 

Wish that I knew the answer (and I'm sure that most of us feel the same way). In terms of the U.S., we need to do whatever is required to keep terrorists from entering our country. Having said that, I saw an old "60 Minutes" television program that showed how much scrutiny that refugees go through before they can enter the U.S. I have no problem whatsoever in welcoming these immigrants.

 

Hoping for a more positive future for both of our countries.

 

Hi TC,

 

I don't think that there are many people on either side of the vote that regretted their decision, if anything I think feelings have become more entrenched ie both sides feeling even more certain that they were right.

 

The Brexiteer decision was about self-determination ie making one's own laws and being sovereign. A sub-component of that was immigration in that we had and still have only a limited say over who can enter our country. The Shenghen agreement which the UK was not a part has facilitated wholesale young "economic refugees" finding their way here rather than being processed in the first safe country in which they land. "We" were also still pretty unhappy at some of the latest EU and proposed future EU entrants and their right to stay here. Americans have always been able to accept or reject anyone who wishes to travel and enter the US and there are no viable parallels.

 

After the vote, it seems to me that Brexiteers are even more optimisitc and Bemoaners more pessimistic.

 

Plus ça change

 

:)

 

Jeff

[UKCruiseJeff]

Isn't it wonderful that we can voice our opinions or talk about opposing views or differing thoughts without fear of retaliation.

Regrettably it's often hard to sift through what is actually true vs. the news as it is reported by the media.

But that is nothing new...

 

Amen!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Amen here as well ...... you only learn from healthy and respectful listening to a different view from your own .... and testing and questioning those views whilst deftly trying hard not to cause offence. That is why the pox of the internet generally are attention seeking trolls that only wish to derail decent debate and seek to undermine places where others chat and where anxious non-participators feel happy to make their first post and express an opinion. Hence the cooler .... and Dan's patience (thanks).

 

I'm really hoping to hear more from Trump supporters about their hopes and reasons.

 

Jeff

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jeff, I didn't know she had it in her... ;)

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/legally-i-can-kill-him-queen-confirms-20170131121313

 

:D

 

Let's hope that Bonnie Prince Charlie isn't weilding the sword on that day ....

 

:D

 

Jeff

[mdpa]

 

Thanks both .......

 

Do you believe that as a result of his border control orders that he has made both America and Americans safer ...... and if so why? Would very much appreciate hearing your reasons.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

 

I think so...seems like there could have been better planning and coordination for the rollout. Although, one is never sure...did Trump do a poor job of communication, or did people left over from the Obama administration do a poor job of cooperation? Either way, this issue was exaggerated. I believe 109 people were impacted the first day.

 

IMHO, Obama utilized two different approaches. One, was to make numerous executive actions, and the other was to "look the other way" for laws where he disagreed.

 

Trump will begin enforcing existing laws and use "common sense" vetting for people coming from Countries where we have had the most terrorism & crime related issues.

 

One other point: No one on either side is talking about eliminating legal immigration. I have great respect for anyone one who makes the effort to come to the US legally.

Edited February 1, 2017 by mdpa

[UKCruiseJeff]

I think so...seems like there could have been better planning and coordination for the rollout. Although, one is never sure...did Trump do a poor job of communication, or did people left over from the Obama administration do a poor job of cooperation? Either way, this issue was exaggerated. I believe 109 people were impacted the first day.

 

IMHO, Obama utilized two different approaches. One, was to make numerous executive actions, and the other was to "look the other way" for laws where he disagreed.

 

Trump will begin enforcing existing laws and use "common sense" vetting for people coming from Countries where we have had the most terrorism & crime related issues.

 

Thanks muchly.

 

It seems to me that the bulk of the terrorist risks to Americans on home soil is posed by marginilised exisitng residents of the US not those wanting to enter the US and this acts as an additional clarion call and impetus to their recruitment.

 

In any event it seems odd to me to think that detrmenined terrorists coming from abroad would be using genuine papers and methods of entry. Presumably, for example, if Trump thinks that the Mexican border is like a sieve and offers the US no protection, then wouldn't that be a way to enter for the next year or two?

 

It seems to me that the way he has done this, by constantly referring to them as Muslims in the run-up to the election rather than country of origin - increases the potency of the call to arms of those that wish us all harm.

 

And what about American's travelling abroad. Does this not make them bigger targets?

 

To me, for these reasopns amongst many, it feels like it has done nothing to decrease the domestic risk to Americans but is simply symbolism/tokenism and seems to increase the risk to American's safety.

 

Why is that logic incorrect in your view?

 

Jeff

[mdpa]

Thanks muchly.

 

It seems to me that the bulk of the terrorist risks to Americans on home soil is posed by marginilised exisitng residents of the US not those wanting to enter the US and this acts as an additional clarion call and impetus to their recruitment.

 

In any event it seems odd to me to think that detrmenined terrorists coming from abroad would be using genuine papers and methods of entry. Presumably, for example, if Trump thinks that the Mexican border is like a sieve and offers the US no protection, then wouldn't that be a way to enter for the next year or two?

 

It seems to me that the way he has done this, by constantly referring to them as Muslims in the run-up to the election rather than country of origin - increases the potency of the call to arms of those that wish us all harm.

 

And what about American's travelling abroad. Does this not make them bigger targets?

 

To me, for these reasopns amongst many, it feels like it has done nothing to decrease the domestic risk to Americans but is simply symbolism/tokenism and seems to increase the risk to American's safety.

 

Why is that logic incorrect in your view?

 

Jeff

 

- Not sure I agree about being marginalized. Haven't seen homeless terrorism at home, or too many English, French, or Philippine terrorists.

- Could be wrong, but I believe we still get more criminals/illegals coming in from Mexico vs. Canada.

- I don't remember Trump (or any viable) candidate referring to anyone as simply "Muslim". Most American's are not Muslim, however we have a proud heritage of fighting for religious freedom. I believe it was one of the main reasons for many of us leaving England, etc. Islamic extremist, ISIS, terrorists are all reasonable references. Don't see too many Protestant, Jewish, or Catholic terrorists.

- I don't think the US should make policy decisions based on how others might perceive it (especially bad guys). Personally, I don't care what others think or whether it supposedly increases "my" risk. I'll take my chances.

Edited February 1, 2017 by mdpa

[UKCruiseJeff]

 

- I don't remember Trump (or any viable) candidate referring to anyone as simply "Muslim".

 

- December 07, 2015 -

 

​Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration

 

(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data showing "25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as a part of the global jihad" and 51% of those polled, "agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Shariah." Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women.

Mr. Trump stated, "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great Again." - Donald J. Trump

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

[mdpa]

Interesting read, but the policy he implemented as President is more nuanced. Although the title of the article you referenced is designed to grab attention, the content focuses on Muslim's who want to institute "Shariah Law". Ironically, many of these views are in stark contrast to supposed interests by women's groups, ACLU and liberals in general. Of course, conservatives are also opposed...

 

http://counterjihad.com/women

 

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-law.html

 

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/27/trump-hits-pause-refugees-puts-immigration/

 

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigration

Edited February 1, 2017 by mdpa

[TLCOhio]

Terry - the Panama Canal is awesome! We went through on Silver Explorer in October 2013. In fact, that's the cruise where we met our travel companions (the group of 6, with whom we visited Rwanda and Tanzania in 2015, and Madagascar last year). It's an incredible experience. If you get the chance to see it both by land and also by sea, that's best. I did a full review of that cruise with lots of pictures of the canal. Looking forward to some new pictures from your trip, and especially some new pictures of the new larger locks. They were still being built when we were there.

 

UKCruiseJeff: I don't think that there are many people on either side of the vote that regretted their decision' date=' if anything I think [b']feelings have become more entrenched[/b] ie both sides feeling even more certain that they were right

 

spinnaker2: Isn't it wonderful that we can voice our opinions or talk about opposing views or differing thoughts without fear of retaliation. Regrettably it's often hard to sift through what is actually true vs. the news as it is reported by the media. But that is nothing new...

 

Appreciate this wonderful posting above from J.P. on the Panama Canal. Am quickly moving through the 600+ pages in David McCullough's excellent "Paths Between the Seas" book. Totally fascinating history' date=' engineering challenges, etc.!! Now less than four weeks till we depart for Fort Lauderdale and boarding our ship on Feb. 28.

 

WOW!! The[b'] cooler has been hot, HOT! [/b]with lots of debate and discussions. No time today to share more as a I have a number of phone conference calls and prep getting ready for doing two different TV show tapings Thursday and Friday. Plus, did a local TV station interview yesterday on American's great right for peaceful protest, debating on issues, etc. Part of it was contrasting the differences between the 1950's and 1960's with the television coverage of the civil rights movement . . . versus . . . the confusing messages with the protests during the recent weeks. Plus, the uses of social media today.

 

Agree strongly with Jeff above as to how people on BOTH sides get polarized and locked into their viewpoint without doing much more listening and researching.

 

Well summarized above by Spins on people being able to voice their opinions, etc. Plus, our direct and quick ability to check on the U.S. Constitution's exact wording and as to whether on-line campaign petitions have any legal standing or impact.

 

Was interested to find out about the new U.S. Supreme Court nominee's great educational background with top honors from Columbia and Harvard, plus a doctorate degree from Oxford. Yes, a major UK connection, including that he met his wife of twenty years there in England and there is such a direct, personal link to Jeff's country. Have not read that much on his wife's detailed background, other than that she was born and educated in the UK.

 

Keep things rolling along!!

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 168,565 views for this posting.

[ShotsnCruises]

As a strong Trump supporter, I agree with almost everything the man is attempting to accomplish. I think the cabinet he has nominated is excellent and that the Dems are being obstructive to the detriment of the country.

Also had Trump not prevailed I think there would be a much better case for a second Clinton impeachment than ever will be the case for Trump.

Ditto :D

[ShotsnCruises]

Regardless of one's political views, one has to be in amazement that President Trump stated exactly what he was going to do his first 100 days in office, long before he took office. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, except maybe in the fact that a politician is actually following through on what he said he would do.

[spinnaker2]

The inability of the major political parties to reach consensus is extremely detrimental to the USA. To be obstructionist as "payback" and as a counterattack is disturbing and harmful. It's one thing to be a partisan, to engage in debate and quite another to be biased and blindly one sided.

 

Just my thoughts as I watch events unfold now and for the past many years.

[Travelcat2]

The inability of the major political parties to reach consensus is extremely detrimental to the USA. To be obstructionist as "payback" and as a counterattack is disturbing and harmful. It's one thing to be a partisan, to engage in debate and quite another to be biased and blindly one sided.

 

Just my thoughts as I watch events unfold now and for the past many years.

 

Agree with you wholeheartedly!

 

Also want to comment on part of what Trump said "New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population."

 

IMO, the highlighted portion speaks to a lot of what is happening in the U.S. Obviously the Border Patrol Agents had to be fairly clueless when a ban is put in place against certain countries yet they detain Canadians and Brits. It makes no sense. No one seems to know what is going on.

 

I agree that there is a lot of hatred towards Americans (and other Western countries) by large segments of the Muslim population.

 

Jeff - also agree with your thoughts about terrorists using whatever method they can to enter the U.S. (including going through Mexico -- until the wall is built;) ). Many already reside in the U.S. and some that have already committed crimes are "home-grown" U.S. citizens with parents from the Middle East (and a few young people who just think that Isis would be a good cause to join -- just to rebel).

 

As a U.S. citizen with a dual-citizen DH, we do not fear leaving the U.S. on cruises. We do tend to avoid U.S. based airlines - not only because they could be targets but because we prefer flying British Airways, Cathay Pacific and Lufthansa. We are fortunate to have a choice of which airport to use - one in Canada and one in the U.S. We fly out of Vancouver, Canada simply because we don't want to be on flights leaving or returning to the U.S. (we drive across the border - the airport is only 50 miles from our home).

 

One last comment for Jeff...... my DH was the only one that I knew that predicted that Trump would win the election. It looked to many of us that it would be a landslide for Clinton.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Travelcat2

[UKCruiseJeff]

I think the American's that supported Trumps actions with respect to immigration control is perfectly understandable. The problem as I see it simply the way he has handled it as with almost everything he does he seems to have a knack of choosing to do what might seem understandable and reasonable in a cack-handed way that is intended to make people angry.

 

ISIS/ISIL are mostly (if not all ....) Sunni Muslims, and depending on which chart you believe are the largest religous group in the world beating Catholics by a short head. The problem is that there is an absence of a real figure head to show leadership and condemn the behaviour of the extremists. I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that the vacuum of world leadership has partly been a cause of this problem. They do not seem to have the equiavalent of a Pope for example. They are also even keener to murder shia muslims as they are other non-muslims.

 

I'm still waiting to hear of cogent reasoning to illustrate how this will make American's safer rather than the opposite.

 

Jeff

[Host Dan]

As much as I am enjoying this back and forth, political wise, please don't be surprised if the thread gets pruned. This happened on the SeaDream forum when I received a few complaints (actually from someone on this forum that is actively posting). So far no complaints, but just be forewarned. Thanks in advance!

[Joc123]

My Daughter in Law is an Australian of Persian descent born in Tehran. Her family came to Australia 22years ago after the Shah was overthrown. She is NOT Muslim. She is an Australian citizen and DOES NOT hold an Iranian passport but no matter what you do, you can never change your place of birth. She is a highly respected respiratory physician who has worked at Beth Israel in Boston and whist there, she had papers published in Lancet and New England Journal.

 

She is no longer welcome in the USA.

 

Australia, along with Canada and U.K have been told they are exempt from the ban but my D I L (who has a meeting to attend in March) was told she still has to apply for entry and it will take 90 days minimum before her application will be looked at.

There must be 1000's like her who will be affected but this is how the ban has hit our family.

[UKCruiseJeff]

As much as I am enjoying this back and forth, political wise, please don't be surprised if the thread gets pruned. This happened on the SeaDream forum when I received a few complaints (actually from someone on this forum that is actively posting). So far no complaints, but just be forewarned. Thanks in advance!

 

Thanks Dan,

 

Hopefully we will keep the exchanges good natured and that no one will have a genuine reason to complain.

 

Jeff