All These New-Builds -- Whew!

[LTC Dan]

Check out the headline news article in CruiseCritic: "Carnival Corp. Signs Agreement to Build New Princess and Holland America Cruise Ships".

 

All these new-builds begs the question --- is there really a market to support all of this? The article says HAL will deliver two Pinnacle Class ships in 2018 and 2021 (2,660 passengers each) on par with Konigsdam. It also says Princess will launch four more Royal class ships in 2017, 2019, 2020, and 2022, (3,660 passengers each) similar to the recently launched Royal Princess and Regal Princess.

 

CruiseCritic had another article some time ago talking about all the new-builds on the horizon by all the other cruise lines. Some of these are truly grotesque monsters. Companies mentioned were Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, MSC, Viking, Celebrity, Crystal, P&O, Costa, Disney, Star Clipper, a start-up called Virgin Cruises, and the upper-crust stalwarts Seabourn, Silversea, and Regent.

 

And of course we know the new Windstar President has been making noises about expanding our fleet, too, although he seems to be hinting at taking on "existing hardware" from another company rather than building new.

 

I love having options, and capitalism is great, but the market is already quite flush with every kind of sailing option one could want. I worry that little old Windstar may have trouble keeping its own niche humming along.

[dandee2]

A lot of them probably for the Asian market.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2016/09/29/cruise-ships-order-guide/90042742/

[dandee2]

And Crystal is looking at Tahiti.

 

http://www.tntv.pf/Crystal-Cruise-compte-baser-a-Papeete-un-navire-de-croisiere-haut-de-gamme_a16301.html

 

You would then have Paul Gaugin, Wind Spirit and Crystal. Only the sails seems to separate WS from the rest.

[dandee2]

"Already, Xanterra has poured $40 million into improving its six-strong fleet, and some of the other closest vessels out there in regards to size are SeaDream Yacht Club’s 112-guest SeaDream I and SeaDream II. As Delaney has already reviewed proposals, such a takeover of a smaller operation could be on the horizon, or as Star Clippers is building its new Flying Clipper currently, it could also potentially offload one of its older sailing ships as well.

 

http://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/the-small-ship-expansion-analyzing-windstar-cruises-latest-ambitions.html

 

Interesting.

[dandee2]

Now we know the size of WS workforce; 130+ at HQ and 800+ on the ships.

 

http://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/17/01/p8911838/windstar-cruises-taps-top-talent-peter-tobler-to-be-director-of-marine-

[Ski Mom 2]

And Crystal is looking at Tahiti.

 

http://www.tntv.pf/Crystal-Cruise-compte-baser-a-Papeete-un-navire-de-croisiere-haut-de-gamme_a16301.html

 

You would then have Paul Gaugin, Wind Spirit and Crystal. Only the sails seems to separate WS from the rest.

 

Does anyone see how to convert this article to English? I couldn't find a link for that.

[dandee2]

Google Translate - not perfect but ok to read.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tntv.pf%2FCrystal-Cruise-compte-baser-a-Papeete-un-navire-de-croisiere-haut-de-gamme_a16301.html&edit-text=

[Ski Mom 2]

Thank you!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[LTC Dan]

A lot of them probably for the Asian market.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2016/09/29/cruise-ships-order-guide/90042742/

 

Thanks, dandee2, you are certainly a wealth of information today. :D That first article, the one on USA Today, is just downright amazing. I started to say "scary", then considered declaring it "awful", and then softened it to "amazing" when I accepted the fact that bigger is great for some people. More options, as in more waterslides, rock walls, Broadway shows, waterside arenas, and vast mall-like canyons for people to mingle in -- all that is repulsive to me when I think of the crowds. And then I envision the madness on shore when these big boats pull into town, especially when there are several big boats at once. And the trend is for massive numbers of more ships.

 

I'm glad to read that WS is staying true to its formula, and if and when they expand they will probably seek out small refurb opportunities.

 

My wife and I used to go on the big ships, and then we decided to dial it back and look for less hoopla. That big boat scene is a utopia for many people, and that's okay. I'm grateful I've found an alternative that can keep the vibe low-key and personal.

[dandee2]

You nailed it. We live in a big world. There's plenty of opportunity to travel. Our preference goes to WS, but, we also sail Celebrity for value and cruise length. We canadian pay a 30% surcharge on WS.

[cooee]

You nailed it. We live in a big world. There's plenty of opportunity to travel. Our preference goes to WS, but, we also sail Celebrity for value and cruise length. We canadian pay a 30% surcharge on WS.

 

Hi, can you please explain what you mean by 'We Canadians pay a surcharge of 30% on Windstar'?

We in the U.K. are now suffering, post Brexit . . . . . against our wishes! . . . . . from a weak £ against the $! :(

I agree about the charm of WS v. these bigger ships.

When we were back on board Star Pride at one port in Croatia (which we were docked at, at the quayside), we shook our heads at the LONG, seemingly-never-ending queue of people waiting in the hot sun to board a team of small tenders back to their ship anchored a short distance away.

These mega ships do not appeal to us but, each to his own.

Ride on, Windstar! Or rather, 'Sail on!'

:)

[Strenz]

The 30% is not a surcharge but it is in the fluctuation of the currency. I make reservations for our Swedish friends on WS and use his credit card he pays what ever the Krona to dollar is for his ticket. Four years ago traveling through Quebec it was Dollar for Dollar almost this year yes we had a price point that was about 25% less than the stated Canadian dollar. All currencies change it is not a true surcharge. Sadly for the Canadians it is quite a bit more to go on WS because of dollar value now.

[dandee2]

I should have said exchange rate. On our first cruise in 2012 on WS, both currency where at par. Today,we need 1.36$ca to buy 1$us.

 

That means for us a lot of Airbnb !!!!

[lovecruisingtoo]

You nailed it. We live in a big world. There's plenty of opportunity to travel. Our preference goes to WS, but, we also sail Celebrity for value and cruise length. We canadian pay a 30% surcharge on WS.

 

Or you can go back to 2000 where the Canadian dollar was 1.45 to the US dollar. So compared to then, you have a bargain.

[ducklite]

I see the market increasing for small ships as the big lines keep building more and more megaships and alienating many of their long time fans. With increase in size comes decline in service, longer lines, harder to obtain reservations, the list goes on.

 

If anything I think that eventually RCCL, NCL, HAL, MSC, and CCL will hit critical mass and end up with a lot of empty ships.

[dandee2]

The only companies missing in this list are SeaDream and Windstar.

 

http://www.cybercruises.com/orderbook.htm

 

Undisclosed International Cruise Company

Expedition cruise vessel (220 - 2019) Vard Romania (Letter of Intent) ??

[Pudgesmom]

As long as passengers book by lowest rate, cruise companies will continue to decrease service and services included and create surcharges for items which were previously included. They will continue to build larger ships to increase thier economies of scale. A giant ship just needs one captain, first officer, etc. They can provide one more slide or pool while still decreasing day to day operating costs such as food quality and staff per passenger.

 

On one thread on these forums (NOT Windstar), I see many complaints about the decline in passenger experience. Often the next thread will be about where to get the absolutely lowest fare.

 

We can't have both. Airlines are another perfect example of this. Bag check charges, paying for food, boarding early, or a certain seat are just a couple examples.

 

In a way, the Internet and accessible fast information have created this scenario. While I understand the desire to get a good bargain, passengers cannot expect to pay ever lower prices and still expect the same services.

 

Oof! Sorry about the rant. I'm sticking with Windstar and probably other small ship lines and avoiding the huge crowds and poor service on mega ships.

[ducklite]

There will always be the people who save change for three years to take a three day Carnival cruise sharing an inside with four people and think they have died and gone to heaven. There are others who think nothing of booking a three month (or more) cruise on Crystal in a top tier suite and will complain the entire time because a private yacht charter would have been a better option for them.

 

I think Windstar captures an audience that is different from most other lines (the luxury expedition ships are probably closest). We like our creature comforts and good service but don't need the level of the same offered by Some of the highest end luxury lines. We like the small ship atmosphere and smart casual dress code, and are willing to give up production shows, balconies the size of the Vatican City, and rock walls for it. I think we also find a lot in common with our fellow travelers, and the small size of the ship lends itself to great conversation.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ducklite]

One more thing, the small size of the Windstar ships allows them to give everyone the same great service, unlike the mega ships where people have to wear ridiculous plastic puns to identify themselves as a "VIP" so they can get free coffee or their room cleaned before midnight.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LTC Dan]

Thanks, ducklite, couldn't agree more. You mentioned "critical mass", and yes, all those cruise lines are really piling it on with the mega-ship new builds. They're all fighting over the same mainstream, budget crowd, and economies of scale keep things competitive....until they exhaust the market. That was my original point -- how in the world will they fill up all those cabins? Pudgesmom, don't feel bad about venting. I wouldn't call any of that a rant, you're just noting how mass market conditions may save a few bucks on an airline or a cruise ship, but then the whole experience is rather humdrum. Some people like their lifestyle in bland shades of crème, not too flashy. Others insist on wild designer prints, butler service, Champaign, and caviar. I think Windstar has a great option for us folks in the middle that aren't so ostentatious, but would rather skip the bland and tasteless. Ducklite summed that up beautifully in his last post.

 

Hope that didn't sound too snobbish. All those market segments are fine, so no judgment. But we've got a good thing going. And our ships are gorgeous. Glad that Windstar isn't selling out.

[Strenz]

I agree with Dan and Ducklite. As anyone who reads these posts WS is perfect for us. I understand that my likes are not like the majority and they are not better or worse than anyone elses. I do not need a waiter with a tux in the water with champagne, but I love my champagne! I am and early to bed, early to rise so shows have no appeal for me. I hate standing in lines and shopping is my worst nightmare. I love the service of WS and while the service is supreme it is not ostentatious. I like the privacy of small and the quiet. It was perfect for our first in 1999 and it remains perfect for us now. I think it is a great to travel and a great way to vacation. I think in these times any vacation that one can take is great for that person. No judgement here on the huge ships they are simply not for us but very happy for those that love them. Happy Sailing.

[Del Rio]

You both make very good sense. And Dan you don't sound like a snob. The snobs are on the cruise lines where ones jewelry worn to dinner is what is being judged.

 

Windstar guests do not seem to be looking for someone to "admire" them. They are too busy enjoying each others company in the ideal setting (ship and destination) without way too many people shoehorned in (ship or destination).

 

I have always believed that the best measure of any group travel activity, a cruise, a simple excursion, or an extensive escorted tour; goes beyond the product offered by the provider. The best measure is; are you happy with the company of your fellow travelers? Are they the kind of people you want to do this with again. That tells me as much about whether or not I am making the right choices, as the relationship I have with the staff serving my needs and the company providing the experience. But my wife and I agree, Windstar does an excellent job of knowing (and marketing to) the correct clientele.

 

On the Star Pride this summer, we knew no other passengers when we boarded. On the last evening we had dinner for 10 and it was like a true reunion of old friends. And to be honest, I suspect we were the least monetarily successful ones at the table. And no one cared, because that is not why people sail on Windstar.

 

This was our first sailing on Windstar, but we are not new to cruising. And as my wife's comments imply; the nature of this experience (ship, staff, fellow guests and itinerary) caused us to cross at least 1/2 the other cruise products off of our list for consideration.

[dandee2]

On the Star Pride this summer, we knew no other passengers when we boarded. On the last evening we had dinner for 10 and it was like a true reunion of old friends. And to be honest, I suspect we were the least monetarily successful ones at the table. And no one cared, because that is not why people sail on Windstar.

 

I agree completely with this statement: We all come from different horizon and professional background. We all share one thing in common - the love of sailing with interesting people. Guest do not always come from "affluent Household" (according to WS President and their official Fact Sheets). But I guess this is marketing :-)

[ducklite]

When we sailed on Windstar we had everything from retirees on a fixed income to people who were 1%'ers, although they didn't flaunt it. (Well, except one couple who I think were full of it, because truly wealthy people don't brag endlessly about the five homes they own which are each over 10,000 s/f, their many "servants," etc.)

 

The common thread between all was the love of travel and great conversation.