Water salinity tests

[JaiJaiW]

There has been much discussion of the onboard water being "too salty" and causing swelling.

 

Thinking that this seemed crazy I took it upon myself to buy a water tester and do some research. To blame swelling solely on water salinity seems absurd when in sea air, doing extensive walking, heat, alcohol consumption, and all the wonderful foods are far more likely.

 

My tester measures all dissolved solids not just salinity.

 

Here are my findings:

 

So, before leaving home I tested our water for dissolved solids in order to compare with the ships tap and drinking water.

 

Here are the numbers from my home:

1. Untreated tap water: 192 ppm

2. After treatment by water softener: 175 ppm

3. Untreated but run through carbon filter in refrigerator: 168 ppm

 

Results from onboard the Dawn during Repo cruise Boston to NOLO in October/November 2016

 

1. Cabin sink before sail away in Boston: 230 ppm.

2. Cabin sink 2nd sea day:193 ppm

3. Melted cabin ice 2nd sea day: 34 ppm!!!!

4. Buffet water 2nd sea day 35 ppm!!!!

 

Sadly it didn't occur to me to purchase a bottle of the $5.50 drinking water until I was home. I will do so on our next cruise and test it. I'm willing to bet that it's higher than the buffet water is.

 

So, the drinking water on the Dawn is far more pure (and less salty) than most regular tap water in our homes.

 

 

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Edited January 24, 2017 by JaiJaiW

[BirdTravels]

When was your second see day? The ship could have still been using water that it bunkered in Boston and not water manufactured on board through evaporation or reverse osmosis. That is, you could be testing Boston city water and not to ship water.

[JaiJaiW]

We left Boston and had 3 sea days heading to San Juan.

 

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[JaiJaiW]

I would possibly think that the sink water could be Boston city water but not the ice or buffet drinking water.

 

(See chart I included)

 

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Edited January 24, 2017 by JaiJaiW

[Son of a son of a ...]

Not the water. My theory is that the mild exercise of moving aboard the ship contributes to the edema - the CDC could find a heart disease cluster whenever the buffet gets crowded.

[chengkp75]

While TDS will include sodium, as you say, it is not a measure of sodium in the water. Let me clarify some things about your results.

 

First off, water that is loaded in port, in your case Boston, must be kept segregated, and not used until a coliform bacteria test is run onboard, which takes 18-24 hours, so the water you tested on turn-around day was not Boston municipal water. Further, as it is used, the water tends to get blended between the shore water and water produced onboard.

 

Your results from your cabin sink are about what I would expect, given the presence of copper/nickel piping and brass valves and fittings in the water distribution network, and the calcium carbonate added to the water to control the pH (this is the ingredient in Tums). Also, this calcium carbonate, as well as the chlorine used to sanitize the water tends to form a scale on the inside of the piping, and this scale will sometimes come off the walls of the pipes (most commonly when the pipe is emptied for repair), and this will then circulate giving a higher TDS.

 

Your results from the ice and buffet water are not surprising, given that all ice makers, bar guns, soda machines, water dispensers at the buffet and at the wait stations in the dining venues use an activated carbon filter for each unit.

 

Water produced onboard comes from evaporators (distilled water) which produce water at around 2ppm sodium, and have an alarm and reject level (the distillate will be diverted overboard again when the alarm goes off) of 10ppm. Reverse osmosis fresh water is made with about 10ppm, and the units have an alarm and reject level of 20ppm.

 

As a comparison, from the latest water quality reports: Boston: 34ppm, NYC: 30-50ppm, Miami/Dade: 30-40ppm, Galveston: 38ppm, and San Francisco: 19ppm.

[wdsted]

Thanks for the data. Now prepare yourself for "alternate facts," stories of swelling up like a balloon, despair from how bad ships water tastes, and my favorite picture of brown water coming out of a bathroom tap. You're a brave person! [emoji16]

 

 

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[biker@sea]

Having worked in the Waste Water industry I worry more about forever increasing amount's of pharmaceuticals left in our home town drinking water that Can Not be filtered out. :eek:

 

 

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Edited January 24, 2017 by biker@sea

[chengkp75]

Having worked in the Waste Water industry I worry more about forever increasing amount's of pharmaceuticals left in our home town drinking water that Can Not be filtered out. :eek:

 

 

.

 

Which is why ships are no longer allowed to dump their expired meds overboard. They need to be incinerated, or encased in cement and landed.

[JaiJaiW]

Thank you for the extra info chengkp75! It definitely supports my hypothesis that the drinking water on the ship isn't the main cause of edema!

 

This argument and discussion came up on my CC roll call feed just days before we sailed so I only had time to order a TDS tester. I'm hoping by my next cruise I will actually have a salinity tester.

 

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Edited January 24, 2017 by JaiJaiW

[JaiJaiW]

Thanks for the data. Now prepare yourself for "alternate facts," stories of swelling up like a balloon, despair from how bad ships water tastes, and my favorite picture of brown water coming out of a bathroom tap. You're a brave person! [emoji16]

 

 

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LOL! Yes, I am waiting for the backlash!

 

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[punkincc]

Thanks for the data. Now prepare yourself for "alternate facts," stories of swelling up like a balloon, despair from how bad ships water tastes, and my favorite picture of brown water coming out of a bathroom tap. You're a brave person! [emoji16]

 

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I for one would never argue with Chengkp75, have no problem with the taste of the ship's tap water or presumed safety, but I am one of those who has experienced this mysterious swelling onboard the ship. Happened to my young daughter in law on one cruise when her feet swelled like crazy and then the following cruise, about midway through, my feet suddenly swelled so much I could hardly wear shoes without having deep indentations. Took several days after the cruise for it to totally resolve. Have cruised numerous times and this never happened before, or since, knock on wood.

 

Although it is probably not life threatening, it is very uncomfortable and somewhat worrisome. I do wish someone could figure out the reason this sometimes happens. It is the natural tendency of people to think that any unusual symptom that occurs must be related to either food or drink, but I do understand that this may have absolutely nothing to do with the water. I just wish I knew WHAT it was.

Edited January 24, 2017 by punkincc

[zqvol]

I for one would never argue with Chengkp75, have no problem with the taste of the ship's tap water or presumed safety, but I am one of those who has experienced this mysterious swelling onboard the ship. Happened to my young daughter in law on one cruise when her feet swelled like crazy and then the following cruise, about midway through, my feet suddenly swelled so much I could hardly wear shoes without having deep indentations. Took several days after the cruise for it to totally resolve. Have cruised numerous times and this never happened before, or since, knock on wood.

 

Although it is probably not life threatening, it is very uncomfortable and somewhat worrisome. I do wish someone could figure out the reason this sometimes happens. It is the natural tendency of people to think that any unusual symptom that occurs must be related to either food or drink, but I do understand that this may have absolutely nothing to do with the water. I just wish I knew WHAT it was.

 

It is a combination of things including alcohol, extra walking, and the salt that they put in the food. The remedy is to drink lots of water.

[punkincc]

It is a combination of things including alcohol, extra walking, and the salt that they put in the food. The remedy is to drink lots of water.

 

What you say may be true, but it's odd that land vacations which have all the same components of more food than normal, probably too salty, and lots more alcohol than consumed in our normal lives, plus a lot of activity and walking as we like to be on the go, have not ever produced the same results.

[SteveH2508]

What you say may be true, but it's odd that land vacations which have all the same components of more food than normal, probably too salty, and lots more alcohol than consumed in our normal lives, plus a lot of activity and walking as we like to be on the go, have not ever produced the same results.

 

You are also breathing sea air for half the day at least which is likely to have more salt in it.

[Zippeedee]

Someone in an earlier "water war" thread mentioned the lack of minerals in ship's water from all the distillation and filtering. After ankles swelling to uncomfortable levels on the Gem, where I drank only ship provided water, I bought the water package on the first Epic cruise from Port Canaveral. They did not provide Aquafina, but an Italian mineral water. No swelling at all! I did a ton of walking, ate in mostly specialties, including Teppanyaki. Even with the three courses of salty, salted salt, no swelling. Mineral water!

[elainemasey61]

May I ask 2 questions, you seem to be water experts... file this under "ship water for dummies" .... is what you are saying is that the ships water is about the same as home water as far as sodium is concerned? Secondly, and not trying to start a battle, but there are those who claim the ships water leads to bathroom[emoji90] issues. Again, something about the process.. any thoughts?

 

 

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[fshagan]

May I ask 2 questions, you seem to be water experts... file this under "ship water for dummies" .... is what you are saying is that the ships water is about the same as home water as far as sodium is concerned? Secondly, and not trying to start a battle, but there are those who claim the ships water leads to bathroom[emoji90] issues. Again, something about the process.. any thoughts?

 

I've been an interested observer of this debate, and understand a bit about water treatment (I was a national service manager of a manufacturer of pumps, filters and boilers used for potable water).

 

Water salinity is quite different from the TDS rating; proof of that comes from the test of tap water (192ppm) and then softened tap water (175ppm) the OP did. I can assure you because of the way water softeners work, the softened tap water has more sodium in it than does the "higher ppm" tap water. You can Google how water softeners work for more information on why sodium is higher after running through the softener. Or just look at those 50 pound sacks of "water softener salt" as a clue.

 

Ship's water may have less sodium than your home tap water. It all depends on where you live. Your local water department will know. chengkp75's list includes several cities with higher sodium levels than you will find on a ship.

 

Aquafina, the brand of purified water that NCL sells, cannot exceed 10ppm TDS to meet FDA guidelines, and they state they come in at an average of 4 (http://www.aquafina.com/en-US/faq.html, under "What is the difference between spring water and purified water?") They also come in under 1ppm in sodium.

 

The actual difference between 1ppm and 10ppm is negligible, so there's no reason to believe that the ship's water is causing swelling of feet due to sodium. The ships do chlorinate the water with sodium hypochlorite (pool chlorine) and that may be why people detect a "salty taste". But people get swelling of the feet when drinking the tap water, and when they buy bottled water they don't. I suspect that the taste of chlorinated water is objectionable to them, as it is to me, and they don't drink enough water to compensate for the huge increase in sodium in everything they are eating on board. When they have that sweet tasting bottled water, they drink more. That's my working theory. Or there is another factor at work, like a reaction to the sodium hypochlorite itself.

 

People who aren't picky about the water can drink the tap water out of the faucet in the cabin head and be OK. It tastes like pool water to me, since I have not had a drink of chlorinated water in a long time (our area uses a different sanitation chemical that doesn't impart a taste to the water). But taste aside, it is as safe or safer than the water you get at home.

 

The filtered water from the buffet, the bars, in the dining rooms and in the pitcher of ice water the cabin steward brings you tastes fine to me. A little "flat" but certainly drinkable and it is our beverage of choice when we eat dinner or lunch.

[chengkp75]

May I ask 2 questions, you seem to be water experts... file this under "ship water for dummies" .... is what you are saying is that the ships water is about the same as home water as far as sodium is concerned? Secondly, and not trying to start a battle, but there are those who claim the ships water leads to bathroom[emoji90] issues. Again, something about the process.. any thoughts?

 

 

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As fshagen states (he and I have sparred over water before), generally the ship's water that is produced onboard will be better for sodium than your home water, but whether any shore water loaded is better or worse will depend on where that water was loaded, and where you live.

 

Also as fshagen states, water softeners use salt to regenerate the softening agent, so they tend to produce water that is lower in minerals, but higher in sodium, and people with reduced salt dietary needs that use a water softener are instructed to add a reverse osmosis filter unit to remove that sodium added by the softener, interestingly this is the type of water production that most who claim the ship's water has high sodium blame for the high sodium.

 

I'm not aware of any "bathroom" problems supposedly caused by ship's water, can you give details, without getting too graphic? :D

[elainemasey61]

20+years ago, an officer on Cunard, made a comment about not drinking the water.. just in general. It was also inferred that it could lead to more [emoji90] and different texture[emoji57]. I have found that to be true, my son and BIL say they have the same issue. Perhaps I need to just chalk it up to eating more and richer foods.

 

 

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[rigs32]

I also had a cruise where I swelled to the point of losing mobility. Immediately boarded a Celebrity ship where all I drank was bottled water and the issue resolved within 36 hours and I was fine the remainder of that week.

 

The only difference was my water consumption. Wish I knew the explanation so I could correct.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

20+years ago, an officer on Cunard, made a comment about not drinking the water.. just in general. It was also inferred that it could lead to more [emoji90] and different texture[emoji57]. I have found that to be true, my son and BIL say they have the same issue. Perhaps I need to just chalk it up to eating more and richer foods.

 

 

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Never heard of this. And after spending at least 6 months a year for the last 42 years on ships, drinking the water, I can't say that I've experienced this. Any time you travel, a change in water can affect your digestive tract.

[chengkp75]

I also had a cruise where I swelled to the point of losing mobility. Immediately boarded a Celebrity ship where all I drank was bottled water and the issue resolved within 36 hours and I was fine the remainder of that week.

 

The only difference was my water consumption. Wish I knew the explanation so I could correct.

 

 

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I can only speculate, but my personal feelings are that those who drink bottled water are more conscious of how much they drink, so they may hydrate better than when drinking tap water. And, as fshagan has said, because the tap water may taste differently than the water at home, you may drink less of it, while bottled water has a more consistent taste. The only way to discount or blame the water would be to do similar to what you did with a B2B, but documenting that you drank the same amount of both bottled and tap water.

[sharonax3]

I also experience extreme swelling of my feet. It is embarrassing. I am not a water drinker so I can't blame the water. I think it has to be the amount of salt in the food. Going on a cruise next week and I am going to try and stay away from soups, gravies, etc. someone said that eating pineapple helps. ? The swelling stays for about two days after I am home and then goes completely away. So frustrating. And this never happens on a land vacation, just cruises. Maybe just the humidity and sea air are causing it.

[fshagan]

I also experience extreme swelling of my feet. It is embarrassing. I am not a water drinker so I can't blame the water. I think it has to be the amount of salt in the food. Going on a cruise next week and I am going to try and stay away from soups, gravies, etc. someone said that eating pineapple helps. ? The swelling stays for about two days after I am home and then goes completely away. So frustrating. And this never happens on a land vacation, just cruises. Maybe just the humidity and sea air are causing it.

 

The food definitely has a lot of sodium, even the desserts. The water and the alcohol, not so much. I don't think the salt air would have any impact on it, though (we live 2 miles from the ocean, and my sis lives on the sand, and its not a concern at all.)