Are Gratuities going up AGAIN next week ?

[daiB]

I agree i want my tips to go to people that have waited on us not someone who hadn't.It really has me thinking of this now with P&O for the future.

 

love sailing with RCCL

 

 

The information now out says it goes to waiters in the MDR, buffet and stewards. That's all.

 

However it appears to me that all cruise lines work in the same way.

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

This is what we are going to do from now on, removing the gratuity doesn't mean not tipping, for many it means taking back control.

 

 

 

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Sounds as though P&O passengers will be voting for Tipexit in the great gratuity referendum.;);p:cool:

[insanemagnet]

The information now out says it goes to waiters in the MDR, buffet and stewards. That's all.

 

That isn't what P&O's web site says.

 

https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/life-on-board/gratuity

 

That section of the website used to say "100% of your tip is distributed to the staff who will have served you in the main restaurant (waiter, assistant waiter and head waiter) and also to your cabin stewards or butler, who will have looked after you whilst you are with us. *This amount is distributed through our tipping pool; of which administration*costs are all covered by P&O Cruises." (https://web.archive.org/web/20151003114512/https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/life-on-board/gratuity).

 

However you will notice the updated section of the website has removed the section where it says 100% goes to the staff.

 

What it now says is "our Service Reward Programme is a simple, one-off way for you to say ‘thank you’ for all the service you receive. A discretionary daily amount of £6.00 is added to your on-board account for each guest aged 12 and over."

 

Now it might simply be the way it is written, but those are two separate statements.

 

- There is a service reward scheme.

 

- A charge of £6 is made.

 

There is no actual link between the two.

 

With the removal of the statement that all the money is going to the staff, I don't think it unreasonable to conclude some of the optional service charge is being diverted. The only question is "how much" and what is it paying for - champagne for the directors?

[daiB]

Well you have picked up what you wanted to prove and left the rest

Try reading the full statement.

 

https://www.pocruises.com/explore/articles/news/introducing-our-new-service-reward-programme/?sisearchengine=399&siproduct=123486&utm_source=affiliatewindow&utm_medium=affiliates&affiliate=siaffiliate&awc=1938_1490565600_021a10f8fec71a0660d4ae490b5219e2

 

Your take on the situation is clearly wrong as the statement says exactly where all tips go to.

 

 

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[Florry]

Sounds as though P&O passengers will be voting for Tipexit in the great gratuity referendum.;);p:cool:

 

 

Very good lol.

 

 

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[Dryce]

Your take on the situation is clearly wrong as the statement says exactly where all tips go to.

 

It doesn't.

 

It basically says it's a service charge and that they put it into a staff rewards programme and they distribute something to staff.

 

That's (a) not very exact about distribution and (b) and says it's a something fuzzy along the lines of a tip which is billed as a service charge which is discretionary.

 

Our reason for using white envelopes has been that we don't know if P&O can withhold the money - we've heard too many hints that they can. So if your steward looks after say 16 cabins and several complain but you think they were great - if your tip ( ahem 'service charge' which is discretionary) goes into a pool what happens - does it get held back or passed through?

 

This means that your tip could end up somewhere else other than where you intended.

 

I have a problem with that.

[insanemagnet]

Well you have picked up what you wanted to prove and left the rest

Try reading the full statement.

 

https://www.pocruises.com/explore/articles/news/introducing-our-new-service-reward-programme/?sisearchengine=399&siproduct=123486&utm_source=affiliatewindow&utm_medium=affiliates&affiliate=siaffiliate&awc=1938_1490565600_021a10f8fec71a0660d4ae490b5219e2

 

Your take on the situation is clearly wrong as the statement says exactly where all tips go to.

 

 

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The section you refer to says exactly the same thing as I referred to, but with an interesting addition.

 

P&O no longer says 100% of the auto-gratuities (now described as a service charge), go to the staff. Why remove such a clear and unambiguous statement.

 

The new statement say "tips" are distributed fairly amongst the waiting staff and stewards, but your assertion requires the reading of "service charge" and "tips" as interchangeable. I don't believe companies like P&O use words accidentally.

 

Why introduce the word "tips" when it would be easier to say the service charge is distributed fairly, and why remove the easily understood 100% statement.

 

I would read the section you quoted as -

 

- The service charge goes to P&O, and there is no comment what happens to it.

 

- There is a Service Reward Programme​, but how much is involved and whether it is lesser or greater than the amount collected​through the service charge, P&O are not saying.

 

I believe these wording changes are a direct result of the number of UK restaurant companies being caught out by the press over their dubious practices with tips and service charges. This wording lets people read what they want to see, but says the (different) truth if challenged.

 

The other interesting thing, by introducing the word "tips" as separate from the service charge, the statement that "tips" are distributed fairly means the only way real "tips" handed to an individual staff member can be distributed fairly is if they are all handed in by the staff and then distributed.

[sapphire4]

we have always paid our gratuities but we are considering our position for the next cruise. That way we have been able to enjoy the cruise without having to keep messing about with money. We have always tipped the cabin steward extra if he's particularly good. Our butler was not very helpful on our last cruise and the cruise before the cabin steward was awful. I even found bits of other peoples detritus under the bed when we were leaving and he seemed to do the bare minimum. What is the procedure for removing them and do you have to explain why? I wondered if the staff know who has removed them or not?

[Floflegs]

I have always paid my auto-gratuities but we heard from a member of the crew on our latest cruise that he'd lost his tips because of complaints by a couple of passengers. He was a lovely person but pretty new to his role so very much at the learning stage so I though that was too harsh. It would really upset me to think that say my waiters or steward lost their tips because other people complained despite the fact that I was happy with the service I got.

 

For that reason we will not be paying the auto-gratuity charge on our next cruise but we've been collecting £5 notes so we can tip whichever waiter we have in Freedom dining every night. We will also tip our breakfast waiter and our steward at the end to more than the equivalent amount we would have been charged. BTW I've always collected £1 / £2 coins to tip room service which we use quite a lot so this is NOT because I disagree with the concept of tipping. These guys deserve every penny they get

Just be careful with your £1 coins as they go out of circulation in October! I too wish they would include tips in the price. Fairer all round. So far, on all cruise lines we have sailed with, we have never removed tips. Now in a quandary as to what to do as don't want those we appreciate to god hard done by.

[daiB]

The section you refer to says exactly the same thing as I referred to, but with an interesting addition.

 

P&O no longer says 100% of the auto-gratuities (now described as a service charge), go to the staff. Why remove such a clear and unambiguous statement.

 

The new statement say "tips" are distributed fairly amongst the waiting staff and stewards, but your assertion requires the reading of "service charge" and "tips" as interchangeable. I don't believe companies like P&O use words accidentally.

 

Why introduce the word "tips" when it would be easier to say the service charge is distributed fairly, and why remove the easily understood 100% statement.

 

I would read the section you quoted as -

 

- The service charge goes to P&O, and there is no comment what happens to it.

 

- There is a Service Reward Programme​, but how much is involved and whether it is lesser or greater than the amount collected​through the service charge, P&O are not saying.

 

I believe these wording changes are a direct result of the number of UK restaurant companies being caught out by the press over their dubious practices with tips and service charges. This wording lets people read what they want to see, but says the (different) truth if challenged.

 

The other interesting thing, by introducing the word "tips" as separate from the service charge, the statement that "tips" are distributed fairly means the only way real "tips" handed to an individual staff member can be distributed fairly is if they are all handed in by the staff and then distributed.

 

 

Well you would look at it that way . As that is all you do.

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

What is the procedure for removing them and do you have to explain why?

 

There is a form to complete with a box asking you the amount you would like to decrease (or increase) the service charge, and the reason why.

 

I wondered if the staff know who has removed them or not?

 

Some people will assert they do, but logically it makes no sense.

 

There is no direct link between your £6 and your waiter or steward as P&O just pay a lump of money into the service reward scheme.

 

So even if every cabin a steward serviced had removed their service charge, the steward would still receive their service reward if their scores on the end of cruise 'happy sheet' were ok. This is why the staff care far more about what you score them on there, than whether someone removes the service charge.

[Selbourne]

I am inclined to agree that it is highly unlikely that staff are informed who has removed auto gratuities, but if anyone has concrete evidence to the contrary I would be genuinely interested to hear it.

 

On Ventura recently, I removed the auto gratuity as the service had been so poor in the restaurants (it was a short cruise and the staff seemed completely disengaged) and tipped our steward directly. I made a point of writing a paragraph on the opt-out form spelling out precisely why I had felt the need to do this and even singled out a very rude and unhelpful restaurant manager. I half expected that over the next 3 days somebody would come knocking on my cabin door to speak to me about it (especially as I had asked reception to ensure that my comments were brought to the attention of the Food & Beverage Manager), but nothing. I came to the conclusion that it's a paper exercise purely for billing admin and not a means of feedback or follow up on individual staff or specific issues. Sadly, being a short cruise, there was no end of cruise service questionnaire (another reason why the staff don't bother on these short cruises) so no other means to feed back.

 

I reward good service handsomely and will often tip quite a bit above the norm, even when I have paid the auto gratuities. But, equally, I feel strongly that poor service should not be 'rewarded'. I would prefer to pay an increased cruise price that included the 'service' elements (as nobody could avoid it, the cost would be less than the auto gratuities) and I am sure that many of us would continue to tip additionally for 'over and above' service. I believe that this would result in an almost immediate improvement in service levels as the current system rewards mediocrity and there is no real incentive for staff to excel.

[daiB]

I am inclined to agree that it is highly unlikely that staff are informed who has removed auto gratuities, but if anyone has concrete evidence to the contrary I would be genuinely interested to hear it.

 

On Ventura recently, I removed the auto gratuity as the service had been so poor in the restaurants (it was a short cruise and the staff seemed completely disengaged) and tipped our steward directly. I made a point of writing a paragraph on the opt-out form spelling out precisely why I had felt the need to do this and even singled out a very rude and unhelpful restaurant manager. I half expected that over the next 3 days somebody would come knocking on my cabin door to speak to me about it (especially as I had asked reception to ensure that my comments were brought to the attention of the Food & Beverage Manager), but nothing. I came to the conclusion that it's a paper exercise purely for billing admin and not a means of feedback or follow up on individual staff or specific issues. Sadly, being a short cruise, there was no end of cruise service questionnaire (another reason why the staff don't bother on these short cruises) so no other means to feed back.

 

I reward good service handsomely and will often tip quite a bit above the norm, even when I have paid the auto gratuities. But, equally, I feel strongly that poor service should not be 'rewarded'. I would prefer to pay an increased cruise price that included the 'service' elements (as nobody could avoid it, the cost would be less than the auto gratuities) and I am sure that many of us would continue to tip additionally for 'over and above' service. I believe that this would result in an almost immediate improvement in service levels as the current system rewards mediocrity and there is no real incentive for staff to excel.

 

 

And we would get rid of these tipping threads. I have been saying this for some time now. It allows those who do not like tipping an excuse not to tip.

 

Let's all pay more and no tipping. Much much better.

 

 

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[grapau27]

The information now out says it goes to waiters in the MDR, buffet and stewards. That's all.

 

However it appears to me that all cruise lines work in the same way.

 

 

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That's fair enough but if someone has a gripe with a waiter who has been great to us i still want my autgratuities to go to him not for him to be penalised,he should only have the Grievers tips removed not mine and others who have been wel served.

 

love sailing with RCCL

[grapau27]

That isn't what P&O's web site says.

 

https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/life-on-board/gratuity

 

That section of the website used to say "100% of your tip is distributed to the staff who will have served you in the main restaurant (waiter, assistant waiter and head waiter) and also to your cabin stewards or butler, who will have looked after you whilst you are with us. *This amount is distributed through our tipping pool; of which administration*costs are all covered by P&O Cruises." (https://web.archive.org/web/20151003114512/https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/life-on-board/gratuity).

 

However you will notice the updated section of the website has removed the section where it says 100% goes to the staff.

 

What it now says is "our Service Reward Programme is a simple, one-off way for you to say ‘thank you’ for all the service you receive. A discretionary daily amount of £6.00 is added to your on-board account for each guest aged 12 and over."

 

Now it might simply be the way it is written, but those are two separate statements.

 

- There is a service reward scheme.

 

- A charge of £6 is made.

 

There is no actual link between the two.

 

With the removal of the statement that all the money is going to the staff, I don't think it unreasonable to conclude some of the optional service charge is being diverted. The only question is "how much" and what is it paying for - champagne for the directors?

It certainly makes you wonder because once they have our money we have no way of knowing if the relevant crew who served us have received it

 

love sailing with RCCL

[grapau27]

It doesn't.

 

It basically says it's a service charge and that they put it into a staff rewards programme and they distribute something to staff.

 

That's (a) not very exact about distribution and (b) and says it's a something fuzzy along the lines of a tip which is billed as a service charge which is discretionary.

 

Our reason for using white envelopes has been that we don't know if P&O can withhold the money - we've heard too many hints that they can. So if your steward looks after say 16 cabins and several complain but you think they were great - if your tip ( ahem 'service charge' which is discretionary) goes into a pool what happens - does it get held back or passed through?

 

This means that your tip could end up somewhere else other than where you intended.

 

I have a problem with that.

Me too.

 

love sailing with RCCL

[grapau27]

Just be careful with your £1 coins as they go out of circulation in October! I too wish they would include tips in the price. Fairer all round. So far, on all cruise lines we have sailed with, we have never removed tips. Now in a quandary as to what to do as don't want those we appreciate to god hard done by.

My sentiments too.The crew are probably to scared to fully spill the beans on how much of our tips they received.

 

love sailing with RCCL

[grapau27]

Pompous

 

 

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Very pompous even for a Geordie.

 

love sailing with RCCL

[daiB]

Pompous

 

 

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Thank you for you short intelligent addition to the conversation. I know how long you must have thought about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that was pompous

 

 

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[daiB]

Very pompous even for a Geordie.

 

love sailing with RCCL

 

 

No not very pompous at all. But my original post was accurate.

 

 

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[daiB]

It certainly makes you wonder because once they have our money we have no way of knowing if the relevant crew who served us have received it

 

love sailing with RCCL

 

 

Of course this is the way all cruise lines seem to go. They all have auto tips do any of them say exactly who get what. Not that I have seen.

 

But RCCl might do as you love them so..

 

:)

 

 

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[grapau27]

Thank you for you short intelligent addition to the conversation. I know how long you must have thought about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that was pompous

 

 

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LOL just a bit fun dont take it seriously. Regards Sunderland.

 

love sailing with RCCL

[daiB]

LOL just a bit fun dont take it seriously. Regards Sunderland.

 

love sailing with RCCL

 

 

Might be from you but not from the original poster.

 

I know him from past encounters. Of course it could be female.

 

BTW my commiserations if you are R&W. your lot are in a worse place than ours were.

 

 

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[grapau27]

Of course this is the way all cruise lines seem to go. They all have auto tips do any of them say exactly who get what. Not that I have seen.

 

But RCCl might do as you love them so..

 

:)

 

 

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I love their ships.

 

love sailing with RCCL

[grapau27]

Might be from you but not from the original poster.

 

I know him from past encounters. Of course it could be female.

 

BTW my commiserations if you are R&W. your lot are in a worse place than ours were.

 

 

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Still premier league LOL.

 

love sailing with RCCL