Carnival got me!

[bUU]

There's no fraud involved. From the article itself:

Although many chargebacks are legitimate — the business didn’t deliver the service it promised — not all of them are. Increasingly, credit-card holders are turning to the dispute to retaliate against what they see as a company’s unfair policies, says John Monarch, chief executive of Direct Outbound, a company that offers chargeback and call-center services to businesses.

 

This case is clearly a matter of the consumer not knowing what they were booking, not deceit, misleading, or any wrong doing by the cruise line. It's not gonna happen.

Moreover, there is a real possibility that if the credit card companies begin to see that the dispute resolution is being used too much for retaliation rather than for legitimate grievance resolution, we may very well see credit card issuers taking actions that we, as consumers, will not like. Think about how many times misuse by consumers leads to changes by companies and in regulations that adversely affect genuine and legitimate consumer concerns.

[firemanbobswife]

Moreover, there is a real possibility that if the credit card companies begin to see that the dispute resolution is being used too much for retaliation rather than for legitimate grievance resolution, we may very well see credit card issuers taking actions that we, as consumers, will not like. Think about how many times misuse by consumers leads to changes by companies and in regulations that adversely affect genuine and legitimate consumer concerns.

 

Agree. Chargebacks are meant to protect the consumer against fraud and to keep companies from promising goods and not delivering, not for buyer's remorse. This particular case is neither fraud nor Carnival failing to provide a service they agreed to. Even when ships miss ports due to weather, they still don't have a leg to stand on. The credit card company won't refund you then, either. The customer is still on a cruise and the cruise contract states that the itinerary can be changed at any time for any reason. People look to work around the system by placing blame on others vs themselves.

 

If this was a legit way to work around ES restrictions, it would be widely publicized by now. Facts are it's not. Go ahead and try. And like the article says, you may just see some retaliation back from the company such as being blacklisted or having your cruise canceled. More than likely not, but it could happen. Best to take your lickings and move on.

Edited August 5, 2017 by firemanbobswife

[Coopie]

First off, sanmarcosman,,,,,,,,,,,,how rude!!

 

We haven't used a TA in many many years. We did use one of their planners one time and he slept on the job. I did all the looking and getting $ back when price dropped. We find it just easier to do it ourselves.

 

The one question I always ask (even though I will never book ES) is if I cancel before final payment will my total down payment be refunded. I usually know the answer due to how we book but ALWAYS ask that question.

 

Easy for some people to say "no problem" you will use it down the road. I guess they don't stop to think that everyone may not be able to afford to have that money held.

 

Sorry for your inconvenience and hopefully all will work out for you down the road.

[Domino D]

I really hate when people say "you need a TA." No what people need to do is read with understanding. No one should just call to book anything, you should do your research. Check forums, ask questions, BEFORE you spend you hard earned money.

 

I give up

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Okay, I've been reading along and staying out of this, but I am going to tag in for a second. I am NOT a travel agent, and don't care if you use a PVP or travel agent, but this argument of "I know as much as them" or "People need to learn how to do research" is off point. Travel agents (or PVPs) provide a service and convenience, not just knowledge. I don't use them because they know more than me, I use them to take things off my plate, and help in a pinch. It's not that I can't do mock bookings or poor through emails, offers, and various sites. I can, I have. Why would I want to invest my time "researching" booking a vacation, when someone else will do it for me for free?

 

I CAN put my garbage in the trunk and drive it to the dump, I pay someone to haul my garbage because it is more convenient. As far as "some travel agents don't know anything anyway", that is true of any business. If you get a bad haircut do you go to a different shop, or do you buy a flowbee?

 

Yes, I can log onto a website and do mock bookings. Then I can get on here and post questions about "Anyone else having problems with Carnival's website?", and "Why does Carnival keep calling me?" OR, I can send an email to my PVP and let her know I am looking to sail on Vista, Western route, on any of these dates (school calendar), and I need to be less than $XXX. I did this last November, she called me in March and I booked for next February. I use my travel agent the same way for land vacations. My wife wants to go to Europe in the next couple of years, with a cruise in the middle of the trip. There are LOTS of pieces to this. Why wouldn't I take advantage of someone willing to help?

 

The second service a good PVP or Travel Agent provides is assistance with issues that come up. While on vacation in South America, our return flight was cancelled. While hundreds of passengers lined up to yell at the desk agent, I called the 800# provided by my travel agent. In 10 minutes I was rebooked and walking to the other gate. There are questions on CC now, like "Celebrating a birthday what do I do", that a good PVP or TA will easily handle. Every time I book, Monique (PVP) asks me if we are celebrating anything, and handles all the arrangements. Last Thanksgiving, all that was left was My Time (or Your Time whatever), she said to me "Oh they don't have any Early Dining spots left, let me see what I can do", next day she emailed me that she was able to get it changed. She calls me after every cruise to see if anything happened, and if there is anything we need her to check into. I can handle all these things myself, again why would I?

 

I get that some of you enjoy doing this yourself, and are good at it. If that is you, have at it, and know that I applaud you. If you are on here, putting up posts like the OP, then you really should find a good Travel Agent. Take the help.

 

Also, not every decision is a result of ignorance, some are a result of apathy. My not doing it all myself isn't based on not understanding how to do it, I don't care to. I have read the entire cruise ticket, and actually carry a copy with us on every cruise. In fact this the sole reason my pocket knife is 3.5 inches long.

 

Again, I'm not trying to convert those of you who do it yourself. I am only trying to point out why certain people should use TA's and PVP's.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Okay, I've been reading along and staying out of this, but I am going to tag in for a second. I am NOT a travel agent, and don't care if you use a PVP or travel agent, but this argument of "I know as much as them" or "People need to learn how to do research" is off point. Travel agents (or PVPs) provide a service and convenience, not just knowledge. I don't use them because they know more than me, I use them to take things off my plate, and help in a pinch. It's not that I can't do mock bookings or poor through emails, offers, and various sites. I can, I have. Why would I want to invest my time "researching" booking a vacation, when someone else will do it for me for free?

 

I CAN put my garbage in the trunk and drive it to the dump, I pay someone to haul my garbage because it is more convenient. As far as "some travel agents don't know anything anyway", that is true of any business. If you get a bad haircut do you go to a different shop, or do you buy a flowbee?

 

Yes, I can log onto a website and do mock bookings. Then I can get on here and post questions about "Anyone else having problems with Carnival's website?", and "Why does Carnival keep calling me?" OR, I can send an email to my PVP and let her know I am looking to sail on Vista, Western route, on any of these dates (school calendar), and I need to be less than $XXX. I did this last November, she called me in March and I booked for next February. I use my travel agent the same way for land vacations. My wife wants to go to Europe in the next couple of years, with a cruise in the middle of the trip. There are LOTS of pieces to this. Why wouldn't I take advantage of someone willing to help?

 

The second service a good PVP or Travel Agent provides is assistance with issues that come up. While on vacation in South America, our return flight was cancelled. While hundreds of passengers lined up to yell at the desk agent, I called the 800# provided by my travel agent. In 10 minutes I was rebooked and walking to the other gate. There are questions on CC now, like "Celebrating a birthday what do I do", that a good PVP or TA will easily handle. Every time I book, Monique (PVP) asks me if we are celebrating anything, and handles all the arrangements. Last Thanksgiving, all that was left was My Time (or Your Time whatever), she said to me "Oh they don't have any Early Dining spots left, let me see what I can do", next day she emailed me that she was able to get it changed. She calls me after every cruise to see if anything happened, and if there is anything we need her to check into. I can handle all these things myself, again why would I?

 

I get that some of you enjoy doing this yourself, and are good at it. If that is you, have at it, and know that I applaud you. If you are on here, putting up posts like the OP, then you really should find a good Travel Agent. Take the help.

 

Also, not every decision is a result of ignorance, some are a result of apathy. My not doing it all myself isn't based on not understanding how to do it, I don't care to. I have read the entire cruise ticket, and actually carry a copy with us on every cruise. In fact this the sole reason my pocket knife is 3.5 inches long.

 

Again, I'm not trying to convert those of you who do it yourself. I am only trying to point out why certain people should use TA's and PVP's.

War and Peace was a shorter read! [emoji6]

 

Bill

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[bUU]

War and Peace was a shorter read! [emoji6]

 

Bill

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Why disparage thoughtful comments in favor of vapid sound bites?

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[broberts]

War and Peace was a shorter read! [emoji6]

 

Bill

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

So what if you gave up on War and Peace?

[jimbo5544]

So what if you gave up on War and Peace?

 

 

 

..... it was a pretty good book to read, even if a tad long.

 

 

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[Domino D]

War and Peace was a shorter read! [emoji6]

 

Bill

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

No offense taken Bill. It was a long post. Like Tolstoy my goal was to write something worth reading, not succinctness. Perhaps "Spark Notes" will write a study guide.

[Organized Chaos]

I see a whole lot of, "It's your fault for not reading the fine print. You're an uninformed buyer. You didn't do your due diligence. Etc. Etc." I feel a bit more sympathetic than that, and here's why. There are a few basic, key components to booking a Carnival cruise and the rate you choose is one of them. For whatever reason, the OP wasn't aware they were booking a rate with such restrictions. I don't care what their reason was. Not everyone researches a vacation like myself and others do. I can't fault them for that. But when it comes to something so basic, something that is a core component of booking with Carnival like the rate is, I do not think it's too much to ask that the customer service rep. informs the customer of the available rates and anything important (like restrictions) connected to the one they're about to purchase. That's a very reasonable expectation to have of a cruise booking agent. When someone calls Carnival who may not be as knowledgeable of the booking process as others here are, they're expecting the person on the other end of the line to help make them a more informed buyer. That's part of the job of a sales agent, especially when it comes to the core components of booking. If you don't know much about computers, but would like to buy a computer, don't you expect the electronics guy at Best Buy to help you become a more informed buyer? Don't you expect them to include key information that doesn't result in hurting you financially?

 

Okay, I've been reading along and staying out of this, but I am going to tag in for a second. I am NOT a travel agent, and don't care if you use a PVP or travel agent, but this argument of "I know as much as them" or "People need to learn how to do research" is off point. Travel agents (or PVPs) provide a service and convenience, not just knowledge. I don't use them because they know more than me, I use them to take things off my plate, and help in a pinch. It's not that I can't do mock bookings or poor through emails, offers, and various sites. I can, I have. Why would I want to invest my time "researching" booking a vacation, when someone else will do it for me for free?

 

I CAN put my garbage in the trunk and drive it to the dump, I pay someone to haul my garbage because it is more convenient. As far as "some travel agents don't know anything anyway", that is true of any business. If you get a bad haircut do you go to a different shop, or do you buy a flowbee?

 

Yes, I can log onto a website and do mock bookings. Then I can get on here and post questions about "Anyone else having problems with Carnival's website?", and "Why does Carnival keep calling me?" OR, I can send an email to my PVP and let her know I am looking to sail on Vista, Western route, on any of these dates (school calendar), and I need to be less than $XXX. I did this last November, she called me in March and I booked for next February. I use my travel agent the same way for land vacations. My wife wants to go to Europe in the next couple of years, with a cruise in the middle of the trip. There are LOTS of pieces to this. Why wouldn't I take advantage of someone willing to help?

 

The second service a good PVP or Travel Agent provides is assistance with issues that come up. While on vacation in South America, our return flight was cancelled. While hundreds of passengers lined up to yell at the desk agent, I called the 800# provided by my travel agent. In 10 minutes I was rebooked and walking to the other gate. There are questions on CC now, like "Celebrating a birthday what do I do", that a good PVP or TA will easily handle. Every time I book, Monique (PVP) asks me if we are celebrating anything, and handles all the arrangements. Last Thanksgiving, all that was left was My Time (or Your Time whatever), she said to me "Oh they don't have any Early Dining spots left, let me see what I can do", next day she emailed me that she was able to get it changed. She calls me after every cruise to see if anything happened, and if there is anything we need her to check into. I can handle all these things myself, again why would I?

 

I get that some of you enjoy doing this yourself, and are good at it. If that is you, have at it, and know that I applaud you. If you are on here, putting up posts like the OP, then you really should find a good Travel Agent. Take the help.

 

Also, not every decision is a result of ignorance, some are a result of apathy. My not doing it all myself isn't based on not understanding how to do it, I don't care to. I have read the entire cruise ticket, and actually carry a copy with us on every cruise. In fact this the sole reason my pocket knife is 3.5 inches long.

 

Again, I'm not trying to convert those of you who do it yourself. I am only trying to point out why certain people should use TA's and PVP's.

Thank you. No disrespect to jimbo, but when I asked him what more a TA could do for me and others who are already very familiar with the booking process, I was hoping for more than just a continuation of his "they know more than you" narrative. You mentioned the fact that TA's provide a service and convenience, not just the knowledge. That's the "more" I was looking for. If someone already has the knowledge, they need more reasons to use a TA and I think you're providing those reasons. I don't think it's fair to tell everyone "you should use them because they know more than you." That's not necessarily true for those who are already quite familiar with booking Carnival (or other lines, but this is the Carnival forum after all). I'm sorry, but if you're going to tout the usefulness of using a TA, I'm of the opinion that it takes more than "they know more than you" because there's a good chance they don't,. Especially when dealing with repeat cruisers. Their knowledge alone certainly benefits those who haven't done the research or don't have the experience, but the convenience of the service can benefit anyone.

[bUU]

We have only heard one side of the story. Call the cruise line yourself and try to book Early Saver. Ask one short question... four short words, "What if I cancel?" If you can get past that and so not be told that the deposit is non-refundable then *that* would be worthy of note.

 

It is the most basic question. They are taking money from you months ahead of time... Why *wouldn't* you wonder about getting it back?

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[FruitStandaficionado]

Not gonna happen.

 

 

 

Not necessarily. A lot of card benefits include all kinds of perks which the credit card company funds.

 

 

NCL Sunward 1974

NCL Starward 1978

Costa Daphne 1982

Carnival Triumph 2001

Carnival Conquests 2005

Carnival Magic 2014

[firemanbobswife]

Not necessarily. A lot of card benefits include all kinds of perks which the credit card company funds.

NCL Sunward 1974

NCL Starward 1978

Costa Daphne 1982

Carnival Triumph 2001

Carnival Conquests 2005

Carnival Magic 2014

 

You aren't going to get them to chargeback a penalty because you booked the wrong rate. Sorry.

[luckybecky]

We have only heard one side of the story. Call the cruise line yourself and try to book Early Saver. Ask one short question... four short words, "What if I cancel?" If you can get past that and so not be told that the deposit is non-refundable then *that* would be worthy of note.

 

It is the most basic question. They are taking money from you months ahead of time... Why *wouldn't* you wonder about getting it back?

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

This is exactly what happened to me, as noted above. We were told that $50 of our deposit was non-refundable. Period. We were not told that the remainder was ALSO non-refundable, but would be held as a "future cruise credit: -- but only for 24 months, after which it would be forfeited. Nope, nothing about that. Even though we explicitly asked about cancellation. And the website does not make it easy to find.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

No offense taken Bill. It was a long post. Like Tolstoy my goal was to write something worth reading, not succinctness. Perhaps "Spark Notes" will write a study guide.

 

Domino D,

 

Glad you didn't take offense as none was intended.

 

It was meant as levity, hence the wink emoticon.

 

I didn't see the reply about my "vapid sound bite" until I was using tapatalk to read CC while we were out today as I have that poster on my very very short ignore list.

 

BTW I did read your entire post.:) <--------- smile emoticon

 

Bill

[Pops, Esq.]

And the website does not make it easy to find.

 

 

 

I found it on my initial receipt. Whether one has a chance to back out at that point, I don't know.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[bUU]

This is exactly what happened to me, as noted above. We were told that $50 of our deposit was non-refundable. Period. We were not told that the remainder was ALSO non-refundable, but would be held as a "future cruise credit: -- but only for 24 months, after which it would be forfeited. Nope, nothing about that. Even though we explicitly asked about cancellation. And the website does not make it easy to find.

That's remarkable and worthy of a complaint to the cruise line to take action with regard to the agent's error. What response did you get from the cruise line management about that failure?

[Ralphinsc]

Sorry you ran into this OP. Thank you for braving the flames and the scrutiny in order to come here and help others be aware. We all do things in a similar vein from time to time. I've booked ES before on cruises, just have been fortunate to not get caught with any complications. It's pretty much a calculated risk.

[jimbo5544]

You aren't going to get them to chargeback a penalty because you booked the wrong rate. Sorry.

 

 

 

This thread has been an amazing ride..... there must be a full moon.

 

 

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[sonicbuffalo]

This thread has been an amazing ride..... there must be a full moon.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

so what you're really saying is..................yawn!:cool: plus i read the fine print.....

[jimbo5544]

so what you're really saying is..................yawn!:cool: plus i read the fine print.....

 

 

 

You said it better than me....

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[nicole9s]

For a look at the other side of the coin...I used a TA for an upcoming cruise. There are a litany of complaints I can make, however, the one that is most germane to this discussion is that I specifically asked them to book the past guest rate, and I was booked under the ES rate instead. They made it sound like they were going to give me the lower rate (about $30 or so) and it was in lieu of part of the OBC I was to receive, rather than actually booking the ES rate category. I asked them several questions about cancellation, and was told it was fine should it arise. I actually wound up switching to another sailing, and there was no penalty incurred, but they kept making mention of the $50 charge not applying because I was booking something else.

 

Again, there were several more issues I won't go into, as we haven't taken the trip yet, and I fear that if this got back to them, they would somehow sabotage my booking...definitely my fault for continuing with them when I heard warning bells, but I was too tempted by what they offered in perks.

 

I booked my following trip directly with the cruise line, I figured the OBC wasn't worth the risk of misinformation, bait and switch, and not being able to control my own booking.

[happy cruzer]

I found it on my initial receipt. Whether one has a chance to back out at that point, I don't know.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Yes you can. As posted earlier, when you get your receipt check that everything is correct - spelling of names, type of booking, rates, credits, sail date, cabin type/number, etc. If there is an error, get it fixed right then.

[Organized Chaos]

We have only heard one side of the story. Call the cruise line yourself and try to book Early Saver. Ask one short question... four short words, "What if I cancel?" If you can get past that and so not be told that the deposit is non-refundable then *that* would be worthy of note.

 

It is the most basic question. They are taking money from you months ahead of time... Why *wouldn't* you wonder about getting it back?

People don't always think to ask all the right questions in the moment, it happens. I'm someone who does the research and likes to be prepared when going into a conversation like that, but there's still times when something slips my mind. The rate is one of the most basic, important parts of the booking. As such, why can't the booking agent relay information about it without being asked?

 

so what you're really saying is..................yawn! plus i read the fine print.....

No one's forcing you to post in it. Anyone who thinks this thread has gone off the rails can easily remove it from their subscription list instead of coming back to complain about the state of the thread or repeat how wrong they think the OP was.

[bUU]

People don't always think to ask all the right questions in the moment, it happens.

This is very true, and the very best use anyone can get out of this thread is to learn from the problems we've all had how important it is to ask the right questions in the moment, in the future, what those "right questions" are, and how important it is to document what you've asked for and what you're told, in documentary manner so that you can hold people to the commitments they make to you.