What's up with "penny pinching" travels?

[Strophic]

Those frugal inside cabin passengers are in effect having part of their cruise subsidized by those of us who will spend more money for those extras that they avoid.

 

 

Too bad, so sad. I'm not paying out the nose for a balcony, drinks package, or bingo cards that I won't use or get any enjoyment out of just for your sake.

[SantaFeFan]

Too bad, so sad. I'm not paying out the nose for a balcony, drinks package, or bingo cards that I won't use or get any enjoyment out of just for your sake.

 

I wasn't complaining. Just stating fact. Such situations occur in all areas of life. People who pay for the best seats at a concert or sporting event are subsidizing those in less expensive seats. People who purchase the most expensive car a manufacturer offers subsidize those who purchase the least expensive. And so on and so on. In fact, those who book suites are subsidizing balcony fans like me. I could never afford the prices they pay, but I don't get offended because they can and do. In fact, I am thankful as they keep prices for my preferred cabin reasonable enough that I can afford it.

 

While different prices allow us to pick and choose which we are most comfortable with, it doesn't negate how economics works. Anyone who gets insulted by economics is in for a difficult time in life. ;p

 

And, there is no need to get mean spirited about a simple discussion of facts. :rolleyes:

[SantaFeFan]

Are you actually suggesting that we spend more, buy things that we don't want, or pay well above the odds for items on cruise ships in order to keep the base fares down????.

 

Nope. Never said that. I was simply describing how economics works. No complaints or suggestions were being made.

[swedish weave]

Nope. Never said that. I was simply describing how economics works. No complaints or suggestions were being made.

 

Carnival and Walmart became the largest and most successful companies in the entire world by offering their product at low prices. They have absorbed competitors who tried to operate by catering to the segment who think they need more.

 

Nobody is subsidizing those who book inside cabins and curtail onboard spending.

 

That is how economics work.

[Herfnerd]

"i can't believe this thread even exists."

 

I could say this about many of the threads on CC. It's called conversation. I guess if people can spend their money how they want, I can discuss what I want.

 

\

 

 

Wow - "conversation".

 

Don't see how other people being frugal, cheap or miserly in their travels affects you in yours......

[mnocket]

All you need to do is look at how airline travel has progressed from comfortable to less comfortable to less comfortable to less comfortable to downright uncomfortable and Beyond. That shows very clearly how consumers have repeatedly rewarded the lowest price without any significant regard for lowering of standards.

 

I worry that what has happened to air travel may be happening to cruise travel. There are certainly signs of service erosion on many cruise lines. Will it progress to the point it has with airlines? I hope not, but I worry it might.

 

I came upon an interesting article that took a unique take on why airline travel for coach passengers has become so bad. I thought you might find it interesting. https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/why-does-air-travel-suck-so-bad-this-19th-century-economist-explained-it-with-ju.html

[bUU]

I worry that what has happened to air travel may be happening to cruise travel. There are certainly signs of service erosion on many cruise lines. Will it progress to the point it has with airlines? I hope not, but I worry it might.

It's surely already happened and I cannot imagine why it would not continue to happen. What would prevent it?

 

The ascendancy of luxury brands is part of this: Why have Seabourn if Carnival is going to continue to provide a luxury experience? Answer: There would be no reason.

[bUU]

I came upon an interesting article that took a unique take on why airline travel for coach passengers has become so bad. I thought you might find it interesting. https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/why-does-air-travel-suck-so-bad-this-19th-century-economist-explained-it-with-ju.html

That's a very valuable (albeit depressing-to-read) article. Here is a passage from it which clearly some other posters in this thread need to learn from:

American Airlines says it makes 70 percent of its international revenue from the the most expensive 25 percent of seats. Separately, a study showed that for all airlines on the most popular U.S. route, 13 percent of seats make up 40 percent of revenue.

[SantaFeFan]

That's a very valuable (albeit depressing-to-read) article. Here is a passage from it which clearly some other posters in this thread need to learn from:

 

"American Airlines says it makes 70 percent of its international revenue from the the most expensive 25 percent of seats. Separately, a study showed that for all airlines on the most popular U.S. route, 13 percent of seats make up 40 percent of revenue."

 

So much for those who think that low priced things are NOT being subsidized in part by the higher priced versions. Anyone who doesn't understand the connection is "economics challenged". I suppose that those posters who challenge this paradigm must think that American Airlines doesn't know what they are doing.

[bUU]

So much for those who think that low priced things are NOT being subsidized in part by the higher priced versions. Anyone who doesn't understand the connection is "economics challenged". I suppose that those posters who challenge this paradigm must think that American Airlines doesn't know what they are doing.

There are loads of vacationers who think they know how to run a cruise line better than any cruise line, so it would be no surprise to find vacationers who think they know how to run an airline better than any airline.

[swedish weave]

The comparisons with airlines are not valid. Cruise lines still furnish comfortable inside cabins. The food served in the MDRS is good, and the entertainment is the same for all guests.

 

Those who choose to pay the highest prices for their cruises are taken to the same ports.

 

The big difference I see is the "high rollers" add to the cruise lines profit while satisaying their own desires.

[bUU]

The comparisons with airlines are not valid.

Yes they are. You just don't like the fact that it refutes what you want to be true (or perhaps just what you want to deceive others into thinking is true).

[swedish weave]

Yes they are. You just don't like the fact that it refutes what you want to be true (or perhaps just what you want to deceive others into thinking is true).

 

What airline changes relate to cruise ships?

[bUU]

What airline changes relate to cruise ships?

Read the thread and stop expecting people to reply to nonsense.

[swedish weave]

read the thread and stop expecting people to reply to nonsense.

 

ok. I won't reply to your nonsense!!!!

[bUU]

Oh my gosh. Now we have posters stooping to "I know you are but what am I?" Seriously?

[mnocket]

The comparisons with airlines are not valid. Cruise lines still furnish comfortable inside cabins. The food served in the MDRS is good, and the entertainment is the same for all guests.

 

Those who choose to pay the highest prices for their cruises are taken to the same ports.

 

The big difference I see is the "high rollers" add to the cruise lines profit while satisaying their own desires.

 

Perhaps you miss the point? I'm not saying that cruise travel has degraded to the point that it is comparable to air travel. What I am saying is that we are seeing an erosion of the cruise experience (service, quality, etc.) and a trend to charge extra for services/quality that were previously standard. The link I posted about the underlying rationale behind the coach passenger experience was intended to raise the possibility that the same dynamics could be at play in cruise industry. If so, we can expect continued degradation in the cruise experience and we may someday be left with a choice between cruise lines that we no longer desire, and those that we can no longer afford.

[Warm Breezes]

I just want to start this thread by saying I am by NO means a rich person. FAR from it!!! But when I travel I want to get the most out of it! Not to say you have to spend $1,000's and some of the best sights are free. But I have seen/heard of many people trying to save money when they are traveling. Flying in on the same day as when a cruise leaves, eating only at food from a gas station, not doing any of the optional excursions on a group tour, etc.

I'm a really cheap person in my regular life so that I can travel the world and splurge when over seas! Doesn't seem to make sense to travel and THEN be cheap....hhhmmmm....

 

"He who comes back with the most money doesn't win, he who comes back with the most experiences win."

 

I always buy the inside cabin when I cruise as it’s just aplace for your luggage. I don’t alwaysuse the ships excursion unless I am in a place like Russia where it was justeasier (no visa). What I am talkingabout are the people that are content with booking a trip to wherever (Australiafor example) and do absolutely nothing but just to say they have been to Australia. And YES there are people like that. To me it seems like a waste of resources toget to these places and just sit and stare when you can do that at home forfree. But each to their own andwhatever floats your boat.

 

I'm going to use your own words to give you an answer. You always buy inside rooms because the only value of a room to you is a place to put your luggage. The room itself is of little value to YOU. Most people when booking a vacation, will spend money on the things they value. I find value in balcony rooms as I enjoy relaxing out there and watching the ocean and will pay extra for that while you will not. For us, we don't purchase beverage packages because we don't enjoy drinking enough to get the minimum value out of them. We don't by soda packages because we don't drink enough soda to get the minimum value out of them, but we will pick up some canned soda to have in the room at night in case we get thirsty. Heaven forbid but sometimes we don't get off the ship at a port. Sometimes we value an empty ship over a port of call that we have been to before and/or have no interest in getting off for. I don't just sit there and stare and do things on that ship that I can do at home for free. Nobody at home cooks and cleans for me or even entertains me. My home is not even close to the ocean where I can sit out in the sun and listen to the sound of the ocean. My bed at home does have a gentle rocking to it that puts me in a deep sleep. You don't have to spend any extra to get all of that and that is what I value in a cruise. If I were in dire need to see everything in every port, then I would book a land vacation there.

 

Everyone chooses their vacations for different things. Most of us choose our vacation and our expenditures on our vacation based on the things we value. We rarely cruise on a budget but we do spend our money on the things we value...which may in fact make it look like I am one of your penny pinchers. On some cruises we spend more and some we spend less. I don't waste my money on things I don't see the value in purchasing, I save it to spend on the things I do value. On the other hand some people may have to make decisions on what they value the most if they are on a strict budget. If I were on a tight budget and had an opportunity (time and money) to go on a cruise that I have always wanted to go on but had to do it with just the basics, I would go in a heart beat. I can easily handle cruising on a tight budget if there were other things I'd value in going on that vacation.

 

It really is not a matter what people choose to spend their money on but it should matter on whether or not they find value in what they purchase. And we all value different things. Someone is wasting their money if they purchase things they don't value for the sake of purchasing it.

[John Bull]

Read the thread and stop expecting people to reply to nonsense.

 

ok. I won't reply to your nonsense!!!!

 

 

Touche :D

And when you make that sort of post, bUU, you're likely to get that sort of retort. :rolleyes:

 

Here's one way in which a comparison between cheap/expensive airline seats and cheap/expensive cruise cabins isn't valid.

A big proportion of business & first-class airline travel is for corporations' field managers & executives. So no worries for the traveller about the value-for-money, the cost is borne by stockholders or customers.

 

But I never did find a way to get a corporation to pay for my cruising, or a way to put cruise tickets on my tax return :(

 

JB :)

[mnocket]

Touche :D

And when you make that sort of post, bUU, you're likely to get that sort of retort. :rolleyes:

 

Here's one way in which a comparison between cheap/expensive airline seats and cheap/expensive cruise cabins isn't valid.

A big proportion of business & first-class airline travel is for corporations' field managers & executives. So no worries for the traveller about the value-for-money, the cost is borne by stockholders or customers.

 

But I never did find a way to get a corporation to pay for my cruising, or a way to put cruise tickets on my tax return :(

 

JB :)

 

John Please see my post above. The point isn't that the current state of airline and cruise travel are comparable - they are not. The point is that the cruise experience is degrading, much as air travel has. I question whether cruise travel is now taking the same journey that airline travel has and offered a link that explains why airline service for coach passengers has become so bad. If the same factors are at play, cruise travel could eventually wind up in the same place.

[bUU]

And when you make that sort of post, bUU, you're likely to get that sort of retort. :rolleyes:

I guess I didn't expect to from an adult.

[bUU]

I've been reading, or rather, skimming, your posts for a while. You do always like to be right.

I read practically every thread in the forums I read. I only post in the threads I can actually contribute to.

 

UPDATED: Oh wait... except for the dozens of threads within which I am asking questions to learn more about how to get the most out of my own vacation. In those thread, I'm very much hoping others are right.

Edited August 28, 2017 by bUU

[Strophic]

I think people are getting away from the original topic, which is not "what are the long-term economic ramifications of deal-seeking being the new norm," but "why are people frugal on vacation?" And that's a question which I think has a pretty easy answer. 1) Not everyone has unlimited money to spend on vacation and 2) Not everyone values the same things. I wouldn't buy a drinks package even if I was a multi-billionaire because I don't drink alcohol. A lot of the 'extras' just don't apply to some people.

[bUU]

I think people are getting away from the original topic...

I think you're correct that we used up and moved beyond the original question very quickly and have been working to make the thread still worthwhile participating in since then.

[John Bull]

John Please see my post above. The point isn't that the current state of airline and cruise travel are comparable - they are not. The point is that the cruise experience is degrading, much as air travel has. I question whether cruise travel is now taking the same journey that airline travel has and offered a link that explains why airline service for coach passengers has become so bad. If the same factors are at play, cruise travel could eventually wind up in the same place.

 

I don't entirely disagree with you there.

We all know that standards and price-inclusions in cruising have gradually gone down in the past decade and more, in part due to it becoming a mass-market business and in part due to the great god "Headline Price"

It's less-noticeable on UK ships, perhaps because we Brits rail against add-ons, but even here it's more like a production line than it used to be and silly little extras like choc-on-pillow have gone missing.

 

But there's an important factor you may have overlooked............

 

Whether for business or for vacation, folk fly because they have to - few fly because they want to.

We fly because we want medium/long-haul vacations, not because we want to fly. We rarely enjoy the experience either at airports or on long flights.

But we put up with airport zoos, and we put up with coach-class, because it's merely transportation to our destination, it's only a matter of a few hours, and we rate the extra cost to fly even business class as poor value and it would jack up our vacation cost by a big percentage. So we tough it out on the first and last day.

 

But we cruise because we want to. We wouldn't put up with coach-class service and discomfort on a cruise ship. Because we're the ship's captive audience we wouldn't even put up with a third-rate motel experience, which at least we can treat as just a bed and a bathroom and head out to competing bars, restaurants & entertainment.

 

And I think pretty-well everyone takes the same view - the cruise is the vacation, the flight isn't.

Cruise lines aren't stupid, they know they have to provide an enjoyable experience, much the same as inclusive resorts.

So no, I don't see cruise standards dropping to anywhere near the level of airline coach travel.

Or should that read "I hope ................" ;)

 

JB :)