Unsettling Travel News From Bloomberg

[philw1776]

It looks like the article about visas for EU travel cited by philw is from March, 2017 - has anyone heard any updates? A quick Google search gave no more recent info on planned votes or actions.

 

Yes, precisely why I said in my post we need to watch for follow up Visa actions, which as yet have NOT happened.

 

On the side topic about crowds, some couples who cruised on the excellent Viking Sea Homelands cruise loved the ship but forswore future ocean cruising because of the crowds from several large ocean ships overwhelming city attractions. The problem is real. Tough tradeoff between tourist business and killing the golden calf by making cities akin to a crowded Disney experience. MAJOR contrast between the uncrowded 900 passenger peaceful Viking ocean ships onboard vs cities overwhelmed by cruise ship busloads. Beautiful Copenhagen was the worst.

[Fpacifico]

Yes, precisely why I said in my post we need to watch for follow up Visa actions, which as yet have NOT happened.

 

On the side topic about crowds, some couples who cruised on the excellent Viking Sea Homelands cruise loved the ship but forswore future ocean cruising because of the crowds from several large ocean ships overwhelming city attractions. The problem is real. Tough tradeoff between tourist business and killing the golden calf by making cities akin to a crowded Disney experience. MAJOR contrast between the uncrowded 900 passenger peaceful Viking ocean ships onboard vs cities overwhelmed by cruise ship busloads. Beautiful Copenhagen was the worst.

 

Yes you’re correct but would you like for your cruise to be denied access because of the number of tourists

[cruisemom42]

I live in New York City , so I am well aware of everyone’s complaints. Forget from two weeks before thanksgiving to a week after New Years. Then you have Valentine’s Day, Easter weekend and let us not forget the entire summer. But hey, it bring in needed income to my neighbors.

 

Cities like NYC and Rome are very large and can absorb quite a few tourists. I'm not sure if you've visited Venice or Dubrovnik or Santorini, but these are small places that are absolutely inundated with tourists and it is not pleasant for anyone when that happens. Even tourists complain of being nearly crushed in a mob.

 

Venice is perhaps the best case in point as it has been a tourist destination for a long time. The local population has by and large fled the island -- every year the population decreases. Apartments are vacated and made over into short-term tourist rentals. Shops that cater to a resident population have virtually disappeared. Sure, there's an economy being sustained, but it's not "real life" -- it's like visiting a stage set or a Disney version of Venice.

 

No one's saying tourism is bad and shouldn't be allowed. It just needs to be at an appropriate scale for the location.

[Fpacifico]

Cities like NYC and Rome are very large and can absorb quite a few tourists. I'm not sure if you've visited Venice or Dubrovnik or Santorini, but these are small places that are absolutely inundated with tourists and it is not pleasant for anyone when that happens. Even tourists complain of being nearly crushed in a mob.

 

Venice is perhaps the best case in point as it has been a tourist destination for a long time. The local population has by and large fled the island -- every year the population decreases. Apartments are vacated and made over into short-term tourist rentals. Shops that cater to a resident population have virtually disappeared. Sure, there's an economy being sustained, but it's not "real life" -- it's like visiting a stage set or a Disney version of Venice.

 

No one's saying tourism is bad and shouldn't be allowed. It just needs to be at an appropriate scale for the location.

 

I’ve been to those cities and I’m not disagreeing with you except for how New York is during Christmas season. Again my question is how you would feel if your ship was denied access

[cruisemom42]

Again my question is how you would feel if your ship was denied access

 

They're not going to implement this overnight, and I'm sure ships will have some sort of a quota system. So I doubt it will be a matter of someone's shipload of passengers being denied entry. More likely it will simply mean an adjustment of schedules for sailing in the Med and fewer ship calls (or smaller ships) in some places like these.

[nanface]

We are all in agreement that these fabulous destinations are inundated with too many tourists. How and if they start to enforce quotas is the question. What a logistical nightmare! It is easy for us here on the Viking threads to say ban the huge mass market ships but that is not fair and would not fly with the HAL type lines. I can't see staggering the ship schedules helping, as every single day of the week these ports seem to be teeming.

 

It would be difficult to change the already scheduled itineraries too. For example, if my paid cruise has to change from crowded Venice, that would affect disembarkation, flights, extended tours, hotels, etc. How ever a quota system is enforced, it will widely affect the whole tourist industry and individuals - natives and tourists. It is more than just a mayor declaring a quota.

The "hows" are out of my pay grade. I will leave it to the experts, but it sounds like the the direction towns like Dubrovnik are going.

 

Also, no, I have not seen anything more recent regarding Tourist Visas for Europe. I quoted it originally from short travel update summary in my local Minneapolis Star Tribune 12/30/17 that attributed Bloomberg. Probably hot air in response to Trump policies.

[Nippy Sweetie]

It's certainly an extremely hot topic where I live. There has been talk of closing/restricting tourist access to the Isle of Skye for example which gave rise to a huge debate. In Edinburgh there is talk of levying a tourist tax to offset the cost of the damage to our infrastructure caused by tourist inundation. There is so much more to our economies than mere tourism. Much of the money raised goes to the big international hotel and travel chains and doesn't help our local economies at all. Alexander McCall Smith, one of our famous writers, recently made a public appeal against the turning of our town centres into tourist ghettos. All people visiting would see would be other tourists and the beautiful buildings would all be hotels the way things are going.

I'm happy to be discriminating cruiser and we're already planning to stay on board to avoid the crowds in St Petersberg for example. Heresy to Americans I know but I can see the treasures on my PC and not shuffling along behind the next person in the queue.

[Fpacifico]

I for one don’t pay thousands of dollars to stay on board the ship. I want to mingle with people from other countries and go into their shops and support their businesses. I’ve been to the Oakley Islands and the Shetland Islands and to Edinburgh. And honestly, I was thrilled to visits these and other beautiful cities even with the crowds.

[Nippy Sweetie]

I hope you enjoyed your visit to Orkney (which is what I presume you mean) and Shetland as well as Edinburgh. You wouldn't enjoy it right now. You would be mingling with other tourists rather than locals of course.

I'm happy to pay thousands for the pleasure of sailing and choosing where we visit or deciding to enjoy the onboard ambience. Travel isn't a matter of ticking sights off a list of 'must sees' for us.

[jiminyC_fan]

I for one don’t pay thousands of dollars to stay on board the ship. I want to mingle with people from other countries and go into their shops and support their businesses. I’ve been to the Oakley Islands and the Shetland Islands and to Edinburgh. And honestly, I was thrilled to visits these and other beautiful cities even with the crowds.

 

Here, here. Exactly my thoughts. St Petersburg was definitely a highlight. If I stayed on the ship I would have missed my 2nd favorite port on the VH tour. You don't experience a port by staying on a ship.

[Nippy Sweetie]

We must simply agree to differ. I have no wish to share my friends' experience of St Petersberg - the low point of her Baltic cruise due to the crowding and queues.

[nanface]

The point is, we do not disagree that the main tourist attractions are too crowded - globally. The issue is how to change this.

 

It is more than a hop across the Channel for me (and most Americans) to see Europe. Therefore, not getting off the ship because it is crowded, is not a real option. I understand changes need to be made, but personally, it took a long time for us (hubby and I) to even achieve the ability to take a trip like on Viking and finally see another part of the world. If I booked it, paid for it, I want to see it.

 

Ports do need to be scheduled less intensively and also non-cruise tourists considered. It will be figured out. Meanwhile, I still hope to be a frequent Viking passenger and see many more places on my bucket list. If they schedule it, I will go.

Nan

[Nippy Sweetie]

An honest response at least. If you have the money who cares if the world's beauty spots and cultural heritage are ruined for everyone else? I'm sure you don't mean your response to come over that way but that's how it reads.

I'm bowing out of this thread. Its obviously not for those of us who care about what we're doing to our cultural heritage.

[Dauntless]

An honest response at least. I'm sure you don't mean your response to come over that way but that's how it reads.

I'm bowing out of this thread. Its obviously not for those of us who care about what we're doing to our cultural heritage.

 

Nor do you intend for your response to come off snide and 'smarmmy', but that's how it reads. You have taken what she said and interpreted it in the worst light to make a point that suits your agenda.

[lackcreativity]

An honest response at least. If you have the money who cares if the world's beauty spots and cultural heritage are ruined for everyone else? I'm sure you don't mean your response to come over that way but that's how it reads.

I'm bowing out of this thread. Its obviously not for those of us who care about what we're doing to our cultural heritage.

 

Mark Twain: "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."

In my mind, travel these days is more than a luxury or a hobby. Managing crowds is important, but true learning about other cultures cannot happen just from a book or a movie. Those of us who are lucky enough to experience other countries and the people who live there may be the last, best hope of this world. And I mean that most sincerely.

[nanface]

Amen

[jiminyC_fan]

Mark Twain: "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."

In my mind, travel these days is more than a luxury or a hobby. Managing crowds is important, but true learning about other cultures cannot happen just from a book or a movie. Those of us who are lucky enough to experience other countries and the people who live there may be the last, best hope of this world. And I mean that most sincerely.

 

Both your words and the words of Mark Twain are beautiful.

[cruisemom42]

In my mind, travel these days is more than a luxury or a hobby. Managing crowds is important, but true learning about other cultures cannot happen just from a book or a movie. Those of us who are lucky enough to experience other countries and the people who live there may be the last, best hope of this world. And I mean that most sincerely.

 

Well said, and I could not agree more.

 

As I thought about the New Year today, a phrase from an email I received came to mind, and I decided that in this new year, I would "make memories, not resolutions" by continuing to travel as much as I can.

 

Happy new year and happy travels to you all.

[doglover3]

Yes, precisely why I said in my post we need to watch for follow up Visa actions, which as yet have NOT happened.

Here's an update from early May 2017 about the visa concerns in the NY Times. I couldn't find anything more recent, which I take to be a good sign. :)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/europe/eu-visas-united-states.html?_r=0