Norway/France sold for scrap

[chasetf]

I am surprised Star had not approached the US Government about purchasing Norway and converting her into a US Navy Troop Transport. Hey the Nortway already carries two landing craft!

 

If I recall, the Royal Navy had to secure the services of QE2 and a couple of other cruise ships to transport their troops down to the Falklands...you would think the US Navy would have learned from that exercise that troop ships are a valuable commodity.:cool:

Ships are too slow. C5's and C17's transport troops and material much faster. Brits would have used them too if they had them. :D

[Druke I]

ChaseTF

 

I doubt that the Brits would have used C5s etc., as the closest landing field the Brits could use was Ascension Island, where they based some bombers.

 

They still needed surface vessels to get the troops to the Falklands. Very interesting logistics for that campaign.

[N7786W Flyer]

Here's the latest...don't know how accurate it is though...

 

http://independent-bangladesh.com/news/feb/14/14022006mt.htm#A4

 

 

S S Norway to reach Ctg by month end

****MUDDIN SHYAMOL, CHITTAGONG

Feb 13: S S Norway, a foreign ship loaded with poisonous chemicals, is likely to reach the Outer Anchorage of Chittagong port in the last week of this month as a scrap ship trader of Chittagong purchased the vessel for breaking it at his shipyard here.

Sources said, Haji Lokman, the owner of Jiri Subedar Ship Breaking Yard bought the scrap ship S S Norway.

S S Norway is reportedly loaded with poisonous chemicals including huge stored carbon dioxide, carbon mono oxide, asbestos mixed chemical that will pollute the environment. It will reach Bangladesh’s coast at the end of this month.

International Labour Organisation (ILO) stopped the use of asbestos from June 24, 1986.

Sources at Green Peace, an international environment organisation, said S S Norway was built in 1960 at St. Nazare port in France. At that time, the workers who were involved with the building of the ship became ill as asbestos afflicted them. S S Norway was declared scrap in 2003. Later, Sree Ram Vessel Scrap Limited, a ship breaking company of India, bought the ship. But the company sold the ship to Haji Lokman of Bangladesh as the environment authority did not give permission to break the ship in India.

Sources added that the Environment department of Bangladesh has already been alerted not to break the ship in Chittagong as the environment of the area will be polluted.

Haji Lokman said he would take necessary steps before the breaking of the S S Norway. "Some of my competitors in business have started conspiracy against me as they failed to buy the ship S S Norway," he claimed.

The Norway office of Green Peace sent a message to the Bangladesh Ship Breaking Association in this regard on February 10. Jafar Alam, president of Bangladesh Ship Breaking Association, also expressed his concern over the scrapping of S S Norway.

Environmentalists said breaking of the scrapped ships have polluted the environment in the coastal area under Sitakunda upazila in the district alarmingly. The ship breaking industry is primarily responsible for the pollution including water of the sea, air and local environment here posing a serious threat to the health of the nearby residents.

Around 40,000 workers are engaged in ship breaking in a hazardous atmosphere at a high risk to their lives. Accidents have occurred in the recent past that claimed lives, sources added.

[Mark]

I find this article very funny! Are they talking about the SS Norway cruise ship or some Weapon of Mass Destruction? People lived and sailed on that ship for how many years and now it is dangerous?

 

In this country, US workers have been scrapping former US Navy warships that were built before, after and during Norway's launching...what makes these people think that the Norway is so dangerous if US naval vessels are not?

 

Why would the Norway be any more or less dangeous to scrap than any of those hundreds if not thousands of ships that have been scrapped there before.

 

This story is either a joke or some sort of scam!:cool:

[etoile]

Actually, Mark, the scrapping process is extremely dangerous and poses a great health hazard to the workers there. That's why Greenpeace is working to improve the conditions at Alang and elsewhere.

 

http://www.greenpeaceweb.org/shipbreak/

 

Notice especially this page about the Norway: http://www.greenpeaceweb.org/shipbreak/50-ships.asp?id=37

[Mark]

E,

 

I don't doubt what you say...however I still do not feel that Norway presents any different or more significant threat than did all of the other ships sent to the breakers. The only reason Norway draws such attention is that she was such a beloved cruise ship and for all intensive purposes that last of her kind!

 

Until the dangers of items like asbestos were made public, all ships military and commercial used asbestos. As I said previously, shipyards in the states have been scrapping naval vessels for years and will continue to...they know the dangers and how to work around them. I know that Greenpeace has good intentions and those intentions should be directed to the folks who buy these old ships and who own the companies that break them in places like India and Bangladesh...taking advantage of the workers and making a huge profit.

[N7786W Flyer]

The biggest difference, especially with the U.S. Navy ships, is that ships scrapped stateside are decontaminated before dismantling. What NCL/Star is trying to do is have the Norway scrapped in its present state thus exposing the scrapyard workers to the asbestos and other contaminants.

 

By most definitions that I'm familiar with, the asbestos is not an issue as long as it is contained. It's when it is open to the environment and able to become airborne that it becomes a major issue. That may explain why passengers and crew have been safe for many years, but the hazard is still a very real entity for the scrapyard workers.

[Mark]

N,

 

Good point and it is well taken. With the Norway, you can't really blame Start cruises for the situation with the potential asbestos problem. I blame the greedy scrappers for looking to make a fortune at the cost of the people working to cut the ship up and the gevernamental authorities in those countries who are probably paid off by the scrappers to keep their eyes closed.

 

Mark:cool:

[dougnewmanatsea]

While everything that has been said here about the environmental dangers of scrapping is true, I should point out that nobody is making a fortune off it. In fact, shipbreaking as it is practiced in India, Bangladesh and elsewhere is a very marginal business. The profits involved are extremely small. It is true that shipbreakers would probably exploit their workers and the environment anyway, but in this case, doing so is literally necessary for their economic survival.

 

When ships are broken up safely in the US, the value of the scrap metal actually is not enough to cover the cost of breaking the ship up in safe manner! It is a money-losing proposition. The US Government has to actually pay companies to scrap the ships, otherwise nobody would be willing to do it.

 

Of course, unlike governments, commercial enterprises are not about to pay to have their ships disposed of when there are shipbreakers in places like Bangladesh who are willing to pay money for these ships. I'll put it this way... Why should I pay someone to get rid of my garbage when there are people willing to buy it from me?

 

Quite simply, if shipbreakers were compelled to operate in a safe manner (both for the environment and for their workers), they would not be able to make a profit. This would create a huge problem. Suddenly, there would be thousands of disused ships and nothing at all to do with them! Not all shipowners would have deep enough pockets to pay to have their ships scrapped, and even those who do would hardly want to do so. Not being able to sell ships for scrap at the end of their lives would change the economics of shipping so radically that it is utterly unthinkable. So it is rather unlikely that anything will change soon.

 

As for why NORWAY is being targeted... Well yes, of course she's being targeted because she's a high-profile case. Greenpeace and other environmentalists can hardly put up a fight in the case of every single ship that is ever scrapped - they have to pick their battles. NORWAY is a good ship with which to make their larger point about shipbreaking because she is a well-known vessel to the public, unlike some oil tanker or container ship or whatever. The same goes for the French aircraft carrier CLEMENCEAU over which environmentalists in Europe put up a huge fight. (They lost.)

 

At any rate, all reliable information points to NORWAY having not been sold for scrap, probably not because of bad publicity for NCL but because of the very real possibility that NCL might be prosecuted in Germany for exporting toxic waste if NORWAY is scrapped.

[intrepid_guy]

Ok, here is my .02. I spoke to the Hotel Director on my last cruise (2 weeks ago), she has been with the company for some time (I think 15 years) and seemed rather confident in what she had to say. I asked her point blank about the NORWAY and the SS UNITED STATES. What she said was that Star/NCL cannot send the ship to be scrapped because of the asbestos and other toxic materials on board. In addition, the asbestos is in a extremely delicate state due to the explosion. The entire middle section of the ship was damaged by the escaping steam, this damaged all the asbestos through all decks above the boiler. Apparently it is all closed off as well. In her words and mine NCL has a big white elephant on their hands. They cannot scrap it or sink it. I asked what can be done to fix it. She stated that it would cost upwards of 200 million US to remove and decontaminate the affected areas, then another 200-300 million to repair the rest of the vessel and bring her to SOLAS levels for 2010, not including re-engining the ship. It is a lame duck with no where to go. We asked about the SS US and she said that NCL is working on a plan for that vessel and the advantage is that she is already stripped clean on the inside and there is no asbestos problem there. The ship can just be rebuilt from the keel on the inside at a sigificantly less cost than fixing up the NORWAY. She said there are interesting plans for the SS US, but did not elaborate.

 

Cant tell you how accurate this is, but it is what I was recently told. There seems to not be a good solution.

 

~Intrepid

[dougnewmanatsea]

Cant tell you how accurate this is, but it is what I was recently told.

I tend to be very skeptical about "crew gossip" but in this case I think she is right on the dot... Both on NORWAY and on SSUS. Everything she says makes perfect sense to me and correlates with what I've heard elsewhere.

[Atomica]

There was an interesting article on the BBC World News page today about the Norway - it sounds like Bangladesh has gone as far as to acutally ban the Norway from being broken up in that country.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4720918.stm

[reney313]

What a shame. I really haven't followed up much on what happened with the "explosion" and the happenings since then. I can say I "thought" I was on the last cruise...until 9/11 occurred and they decided to continue sailing with the Norway.

 

She definitely was a wonderful ship. I really enjoyed my sailing-even with the tropical storms and missed ports. I would prefer the Norway over the newer ships I have been on so it is disappointing to see that she will likely be "scrapped".

 

Thanks for posting this information. If anything, reading the information gave me a few minutes to reflect back on wonderful cruise that I haven't thought about for awhile. It certainly wuold be great if they could find a way to refurbish her, but it doesn't sound like that is a feasible solution.

[Tai Mai Shu]

Thanks to everyone here for supplying all the news on the Norway. I sailed on her twice, including my first cruise. What an impression she made on me. So grand. Todays megaships are nice, but not the same granduer as ships of her era has.

 

On my second cruise on her in '94, I was fortunate enough to meet up with the ships chief engineer and he took me for a 2 hour tour below guest decks. I had the opportunity to see and photograph areas that the general public never sees including the ill fated boiler room. It was quite hot there. The fuel that they burned is so thick that it goes trough a preheater before being burned in the boiler. In another area we had to duck under one of the propeller shafts to go from one area to another while it was spinning!

 

Everyone that has sailed on her has a bit of classic maritime history that is unobtainable on any of the other cruise ships sailing today. Be proud and hold on to those memories.

 

Someone needs to write a book on her history. I know the France is mentioned in some books, but a book on her specifically, diving into all the details would be wonderful. Any takers?

[waltd]

Alang Alert!

April 17: Singapore-based Star Cruises confirms their sale of SS BLUE LADY (ex FRANCE, NORWAY) but cannot divulge the identity of the ship's new owners. Will the 1035 foot liner with one of the most exquisite hulls ever sculpted slip quietly into the hands of Asian scrappers? Word from Alang is that some heavy negotiations were underway last week to bring the ship and her much-desired aluminum superstructure to the Gujarati beach. But Bangladesh and China still remain viable candidates, the latter nation less easily fettered by all the ship's recent asbestos-related notoriety.

[vaccardi]

Sorry, some bad news. Here is the excerpt:

 

BLUE LADY and BIG RED BOAT II Breaking News

April 27: Further confirmation from Alang indicates the BLUE LADY (ex FRANCE, NORWAY) is due on the beach within a month. A consortium of breakers have reportedly bought the famed vessel, still anchored off Port Klang, Malaysia, from her Bangladeshi owner, who in turn purchased the ship from her last owner/operators, Star Cruises.

 

Meanwhile, cutting on BIG RED BOAT II (ex EUGENIO C, EUGENIO COSTA, EDINBURGH CASTLE, THE BIG RED BOAT II has reached the funnels, leaving a precarious tower of torn decks and sculpted twin uptakes atop the ship's ravaged keel.

[vaccardi]

Latest news:

 

Next Stop: Alang?

May 6: SS BLUE LADY (ex FRANCE, NORWAY) finally left her Port Klang anchorage on Friday at 16:00, according to local reports. The famed ship was taken under tow, and, unless she is resold enroute, will be beached at Alang for scrapping with an estimated arrival date of 1 June

[Philly Steve]

Sounds like the end is truly near. :(

[Cruising89143]

I would rather that she sink than be torn apart on the beaches of Alang.

[K&RCurt]

I saw this today on MSNBC.com. Greenpeace is still fighting the breaking of the "Blue lady" due to asbestos concerns. It looks like the Indian governmant is going to ignore the issue.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12702721/

[seamama1]

How very sad - what a terrible end to a great lady! I first sailed on her the first year NCL put her in the water after her refit. One of my most pleasant memories was sailing away from St. Thomas. Norway was much too big to dock so she anchored just beyond Water Island. As the ship was lifting anchor to depart, the Norway musicians, dressed in full marching band regalia (Blue and White, if I recall correctly) came marching in formation from the top deck, down the stairs to the pool deck and as the ships horn was blowing, the band broke in to a rousing rendition of the Star Spangled Banner, Washington Post and a few other of Sousa's marches....I tell you, there were chills up my spine.

 

I recall the carpeting being color coded - forward and aft - so you could find your stateroom easier. I do remember that the cabin I was staying in was about the size of a British phone booth - HA! And - so much beautiful artwork throughout the ship.

 

She has been and will continue to be, sorely missed by many of us who sailed on her in earlier times. Let's all lift a glass to her!

[SSNORWAY]

Thanks to everyone here for supplying all the news on the Norway. I sailed on her twice, including my first cruise. What an impression she made on me. So grand. Todays megaships are nice, but not the same granduer as ships of her era has.

 

On my second cruise on her in '94, I was fortunate enough to meet up with the ships chief engineer and he took me for a 2 hour tour below guest decks. I had the opportunity to see and photograph areas that the general public never sees including the ill fated boiler room. It was quite hot there. The fuel that they burned is so thick that it goes trough a preheater before being burned in the boiler. In another area we had to duck under one of the propeller shafts to go from one area to another while it was spinning!

 

Everyone that has sailed on her has a bit of classic maritime history that is unobtainable on any of the other cruise ships sailing today. Be proud and hold on to those memories.

 

Someone needs to write a book on her history. I know the France is mentioned in some books, but a book on her specifically, diving into all the details would be wonderful. Any takers?

There is a book called "the SS France of 1962 SS Norway of 1979" by William H. Miller and Luis Miquel Correia, publised by Liner Books, Lisbon 2002. I bought it from the book shop on the QE2, but i'm suer you could find it somewhere on the net. Everything you could need to know is in there.

 

I really wish that she could be saved somehow, but it's looking more and more unlikely at the moment, up to date info is posted on maritime matters and rudderhaus sites.

[etoile]

Thanks for the pointer to Maritime Matters - I had not heard that Noordam had to rescue some people in the Aegean!

[etoile]

She is anchored off the coast of Alang pending approval for scrapping: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13630706/

[Bangkok]

Aside from "major" being a bit optimistic, why should the French have anything to do with her? She was most recently owned by a cruise line with ties to Norway. The ship was changed significantly during the France/Norway switch, it's simply not a "French" ship anymore

Interesting comments. I sailed aboard the Norway in 1998, on a 16-night Western Europe cruise. Its last two stops were Cherbourg and LeHavre. It was its first return to Cherbourg in years, and the whole town turned out in droves to see the old lady. Having at one time been the pride of France, one referred to her not as the Norway, but rather the France. Large crowds assembled at many points on the way out along with an armada of small boats, and waved small flags, tooted horns and sent up flares. There wasn't a dry eye to be seen, as it was an unexpected emotional reunion for the locals. I wish I could have bottled the feeling that was on the docks, where thousand had turned the visit into a festival with performers, merchants and curiosity seekers. For that fleeting moment, this was their France again, and I'm certain if the political mood and will had been strong, the French would have gladly paid a ransom to get their lady back. A somewhat similar welcome was had at LeHavre, albeit muted because we arrived there in the morning.

 

I saw the France first dock at Quebec in the 1960s, and the welcome there for this icon was not unlike what I witnessed at Cherbourg.