Norovirus on Zaandam

[utahtea]

Have they determined that it is definitely noro or is it something else?

 

 

The CDC is currently reporting unknown. See links....it could change

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm#2018

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2018/Zaandam_6-18.html

[Shel71]

The update letter in our stateroom this evening said the virus is similar to the norovirus but doesn't confirm it outright. Numbers of infected are down to one crewmember and 3 passengers and they feel their procedures are working to eradicate it.

[curtdesilets]

Note: From November 2016 until today, 7 of the last 18 reportable Norovirus cases reported by the CDC have been Holland America Ships. See for yourself:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm#2018

 

Something needs to be rectified. HAL used to be about the best at Sea. No longer it seems, statistically :confused:.

 

Note #2: Scanning further into the list, HAL only had 2 outbreaks in the period from April 2014 through November 2016 (31 months); Now 7 outbreaks in the last 21 months.

Edited June 27, 2018 by curtdesilets
Note #2

[syesmar]

I am also on board. . .

It didn't help that the night before the outbreak was announced that they turned off all water to the cabins for several hours. I am sure the lack of being able to flush toilets did not help the situation!

 

I'm enjoying my cruise, but . . . feel let down with the illnesses, the multiple things not working on the ship (water machines, ice cream machines). . . .

Was any explanation given for the water outage, or the issues with the water and ice machines?

[vicd1969]

Note: From November 2016 until today, 7 of the last 18 reportable Norovirus cases reported by the CDC have been Holland America Ships. See for yourself:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm#2018

 

Something needs to be rectified. HAL used to be about the best at Sea. No longer it seems, statistically :confused:.

 

Note #2: Scanning further into the list, HAL only had 2 outbreaks in the period from April 2014 through November 2016 (31 months); Now 7 outbreaks in the last 21 months.

 

Interesting list. But I don't think it shows the complete picture.

 

What stood out for me was that NCL and Carnival Cruise Line had Zero entries in 2017-2018, and only one each in 2016. But one of the criteria to require reporting to CDC is "Are voyages where 3% or more of passengers or crew report symptoms of gastrointestinal illness to the ship’s medical staff. "

 

This seems to work against mid-sized and smaller ships, the only "mega-ship" on the list is the Independence of the Seas, maybe Crown Princess depending on one's definition of mega. Seems counter-intuitive that ships with larger numbers of people, usually with more of a "Party" socializing reputation, would have fewer incidents of noro, but the reporting criteria works against HAL and the other premium or lux cruise lines with smaller ships.

 

In general, I do agree that HAL is showing a disturbing trend when compared to several years ago, but not sure if it's something systematic or just statistical variation. Four of the Five HAL reported incidents seem to be back-to-back cruises.

[HBCcruiser]

My mom and I both got a “Noro” type thing on the NCL Breakaway last year at the end of our trip in June last year. My guess is that less that 3% reported it because the BA is not on the list. Other Passengers complained of it too...

 

 

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[OlsSalt]

Note: From November 2016 until today, 7 of the last 18 reportable Norovirus cases reported by the CDC have been Holland America Ships. See for yourself:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm#2018

 

Something needs to be rectified. HAL used to be about the best at Sea. No longer it seems, statistically :confused:.

 

Note #2: Scanning further into the list, HAL only had 2 outbreaks in the period from April 2014 through November 2016 (31 months); Now 7 outbreaks in the last 21 months.

 

Look at the dates for the HAL ship reports in 2017 -four of them are for two ship for two reporting weeks in a row - not great to see, but not as bad as it first looks. If you are looking at sheer numbers to condemn an entire cruise line, keep adding up the rest of them.

[Sea girl 23]

I understand your concern -- a lot of docs prescribe antibiotics when they really aren't needed and wouldn't do any good anyway. Long term, it can lead to serious problems as you describe above.

 

But after struggling with Stage 3 ("severe") COPD for the past 7 years, and going through several severe bronchitis episodes that started with a simple cold caused by a virus, I have a pretty good handle on when/when not to use antibiotics. I've been working with the same pulmonologist during that entire period. We had quite a discussion a few weeks ago about how to prepare for my upcoming trip. He has treated every episode I've had since 2011 when I was first diagnosed, so he knows the drill and how I react to various meds/etc.

 

I don't mind talking about the precautions my pulmonary doc prescribed since you did "wonder" about it, and it may serve to inform those who aren't familiar with the challenges of COPD: prednisone and, yes, antibiotics in case I develop a bacterial infection (I know the signs -- I've been through it a few times). I'm also bringing my nebulizer + albuterol just in case -- I also have asthma which can complicate things even more. I may not need any of this, but given what happened on my first trip, we'd rather be prepared than having to rely on the ship's medical team who may or may not have on hand what is needed. I'll also be more aware of what sniffling/sneezing/coughing is going on around me, and take whatever precautions I can to avoid exposure to whatever bug is making the rounds.

 

Also, HAL is aware of my situation via the Special Requirements Information (SRI). So, we're good.

 

By the way, I'm living proof that a non-smoker can develop COPD. My pulmonologist believes it is the result of second-hand smoke: my father was a heavy smoker so I was exposed to it from birth until I got married and moved away from home at age 20. Talk about bad luck, huh?

 

Lana in Bellingham

 

Don't take it personally.I had a upper respiratory infection after my last cruise and I *definitely* needed antibiotics for it as it wasn't gonna get better on its own.I kept feeling worse,not better.

 

Upper respiratory infections seem to be more of a problem than norovirus; a good percentage of the people on my most recent cruise were hacking and coughing. #gross.

[OlsSalt]

For general information only:

 

How is a cold treated?

 

There is no cure for the common cold. Colds are caused by viruses and do not get better with antibiotics. Most people get better in 7 to 14 days. You may continue to cough for 2 to 3 weeks. The following may help decrease your symptoms:

• Decongestants help reduce nasal congestion and help you breathe more easily. If you take decongestant pills, they may make you feel restless or cause problems with your sleep. Do not use decongestant sprays for more than a few days.
  
• Cough suppressants help reduce coughing. Ask your healthcare provider which type of cough medicine is best for you.
  
• NSAIDs , such as ibuprofen, help decrease swelling, pain, and fever. NSAIDs can cause stomach bleeding or kidney problems in certain people. If you take blood thinner medicine, always ask your healthcare provider if NSAIDs are safe for you. Always read the medicine label and follow directions.
  
• Acetaminophen decreases pain and fever. It is available without a doctor's order. Ask how much to take and how often to take it. Follow directions. Read the labels of all other medicines you are using to see if they also contain acetaminophen, or ask your doctor or pharmacist. Acetaminophen can cause liver damage if not taken correctly. Do not use more than 4 grams (4,000 milligrams) total of acetaminophen in one day.
  

[curtdesilets]

Look at the dates for the HAL ship reports in 2017 -four of them are for two ship for two reporting weeks in a row - not great to see, but not as bad as it first looks. If you are looking at sheer numbers to condemn an entire cruise line, keep adding up the rest of them.

 

We love HAL, I was simply noting the trend. Hopefully HAL is too.

[Shel71]

Was any explanation given for the water outage, or the issues with the water and ice machines?

 

 

The overnight water outage was described as "routine maintenance". I think it was just really poor timing with the onset of the virus outbreak. Being able to flush is kind of a needed thing when you have a diarrhea and/or vomiting illness KWIM?

 

I have had issues with my toilet not flushing off and on since yesterday. All times we were in port so I am not sure if it was just turned off? Had water in the sink though?

 

The water/ice machines have been out of order on both sides of the Lido off and on throughout the cruise. One side was out all day today and still out when I filled up my water before coming to bed tonight. No work seems to be happening on it though. It is getting very annoying, to be honest!

[frankc98376]

The overnight water outage was described as "routine maintenance". I think it was just really poor timing with the onset of the virus outbreak. Being able to flush is kind of a needed thing when you have a diarrhea and/or vomiting illness KWIM?

 

I have had issues with my toilet not flushing off and on since yesterday. All times we were in port so I am not sure if it was just turned off? Had water in the sink though?

 

The water/ice machines have been out of order on both sides of the Lido off and on throughout the cruise. One side was out all day today and still out when I filled up my water before coming to bed tonight. No work seems to be happening on it though. It is getting very annoying, to be honest!

 

Very likely they were deep cleaning/sanitizing the ice machines. Since staff serves everything during code red if a passenger gets around them and uses the machine they may have to sanitize it.

[OlsSalt]

Chengkp (chief engineer) in the past here has explained the worst offenses of people putting prohibited items down the toilets occur during times of noro or other intestinal outbreak conditions - people put soiled items of clothing, synthetic wipes and towels down the toilet causing the system to clog up for everyone else on the line.

 

There are also signs also prohibiting filling personal water bottles at the public water dispensers as well, to help stop cross-contamination. One does need to remember they are in a shared living situation once on board and abide by the very reasonable noticed restrictions put on them which helps prevent further inconveniences to their fellow passengers.

[JanDay]

We also use Wet Ones....

 

We wipe down the remote, chair arms, phone....and all the door knobs and slider door handle....

 

I keep the individual packets of Wet Ones in my pocket in case we need them...especially after getting on and off a tour bus....

 

Our trips usually include an airline flight....and we wipe down the tray table, seat belt buckle and chair arms....

 

So far....fingers crossed.....we haven't gotten sick......

 

 

We use Purell wipes as they have some active sanitizing ingredients, and we do the plane, room surfaces, and hands always before eating anything or, in general, after touching any public surfaces. We were on the June 4 Zaandam sailing and didn’t hear of folks sick, and saw and heard very few coughing people. We were pleased with the handwash stations at the Lido. Last year Volendam did not have those. I agree with those who note that germ/virus protection becomes a way of life. Just take precautions everywhere since you don’t want to waste time being sick, or get others sick. Our two weeks on Zaandam was STELLAR! Great weather, no “rough” seas, fantastic staff, primo Captain. Ready to do it again. Only downside for us was the music choices played in Crows Nest, Lido pool area, back Lido deck. We did request change there and enjoyed a mellower fare while at Hubbard Glacier. But, after Hubbard the rowdy stuff was back. HAL, look at your passenger demographics. There are better choices to be made. Kudos on all the rest. Great ship, great trip. OH.....wedid have a problem with the Port Valet service. The HAL printed boarding passes are on a glossy paper and sometimes don’t scan properly. After going through the TSA Pre-Check line, my husband’s boarding pass would not scan (mine did), and he had to return to the airline counter to reprint boarding passes. Suggestion: if you use Port Valet (which is super!), go ahead and reprint boarding passes before lining up for TSA. Bon Voyage.

[OlsSalt]

The only "active sanitizing" ingredient in Purell is alcohol, which is not effective against noro virus. The moisture in these wipes provides some mechanical removal of surface contaminants, but that is about it

 

Plus these wipes collectively are a huge environmental hazard and should NEVER be flushed down the ship's plumbing system. Wash your hands, go back to your cabin and do this before you eat or use the hand washing stations. It is that important to you and to others.

[dmg1956]

We use Purell wipes as they have some active sanitizing ingredients, and we do the plane, room surfaces, and hands always before eating anything or, in general, after touching any public surfaces. We were on the June 4 Zaandam sailing and didn’t hear of folks sick, and saw and heard very few coughing people. We were pleased with the handwash stations at the Lido. Last year Volendam did not have those. I agree with those who note that germ/virus protection becomes a way of life. Just take precautions everywhere since you don’t want to waste time being sick, or get others sick. Our two weeks on Zaandam was STELLAR! Great weather, no “rough” seas, fantastic staff, primo Captain. Ready to do it again. Only downside for us was the music choices played in Crows Nest, Lido pool area, back Lido deck. We did request change there and enjoyed a mellower fare while at Hubbard Glacier. But, after Hubbard the rowdy stuff was back. HAL, look at your passenger demographics. There are better choices to be made. Kudos on all the rest. Great ship, great trip. OH.....wedid have a problem with the Port Valet service. The HAL printed boarding passes are on a glossy paper and sometimes don’t scan properly. After going through the TSA Pre-Check line, my husband’s boarding pass would not scan (mine did), and he had to return to the airline counter to reprint boarding passes. Suggestion: if you use Port Valet (which is super!), go ahead and reprint boarding passes before lining up for TSA. Bon Voyage.

We use Clorox Healthcare Germicidal Wipes. Those, along with GF24 Ultra Hospital Grade Wipes are the most highly recommended products and are specifically made for Norovirus. Also, in your cabin, it's important to wipe down the phone (receiver and keypad); the TV remote; and the keypad on your safe. I also wipe all handles, knobs, and bathroom fixtures.

[OlsSalt]

We use Clorox Healthcare Germicidal Wipes. Those, along with GF24 Ultra Hospital Grade Wipes are the most highly recommended products and are specifically made for Norovirus. Also, in your cabin, it's important to wipe down the phone (receiver and keypad); the TV remote; and the keypad on your safe. I also wipe all handles, knobs, and bathroom fixtures.

 

This is a 1:10 bleach solution. Note the contact times required when using this product on ship surfaces if you are making claims that this 'wipe" will kill noro on hard surfaces - one minute contact time:

Product features

 

• Hospital-grade disinfectant wipe
  
• One-step, ready-to-use disinfectants with a 1 to 10 bleach dilution
  
• Epa-registered to kill a total of 51 microorganisms, including all escape pathogens in 30 seconds, Norovirus in one minute and TB and C. Difficile in three minutes
  

[Sea girl 23]

We get it-we're not supposed to throw anything but toilet paper down the toilet and expected to tough out bad colds with over the counter medication? No thanks. Had I not gone to the doctor when I had a upper respiratory infection recently I would probably still be sick, or worse.

[RDC1]

We love HAL, I was simply noting the trend. Hopefully HAL is too.

 

One thing to look at is also the length of the cruise, longer cruises are at higher risk of reaching the 3% number due to more time to propagate. 7 days cruises usually do not show up very often. The was an interesting paper written in the EU discussing the propagation of noro on cruise ships and the influence of length of cruise. HAL tends to have a higher average cruise length than the other main stream lines.

[utahtea]

The water/ice machines have been out of order on both sides of the Lido off and on throughout the cruise. One side was out all day today and still out when I filled up my water before coming to bed tonight. No work seems to be happening on it though. It is getting very annoying, to be honest!

 

 

The ice machine on the port side was out of order towards the end of our cruise just before the current cruise. Then the other one went out too. I would just ask a nearby station for ice.

 

Utahtea

 

 

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[sail7seas]

Very likely they were deep cleaning/sanitizing the ice machines. Since staff serves everything during code red if a passenger gets around them and uses the machine they may have to sanitize it.

 

 

Suits me just fine they clean it often. The more those dispensers are cleaned, the better. :)

Edited June 28, 2018 by sail7seas

[old mike]

Suits me just fine they clean it often. The more those dispensers are cleaned, the better. :)

 

Hear hear to that from a survivor of a legionnaires infection.