en Encore

[rols]

As I have said before on this board, we have sailed on both the Encore and the Ovation and have not suffered for it. While there was a bit of waiter chaos for a very few meals in the MDR in June on the Ovation, our service was perfect on the Encore last September. We never found ourselves waiting to be served anywhere on either ship. We never felt crowded either. We are not lounge by the pool people, but did avail ourselves of the Patio Grill regularly.

 

Well that, plus the post from Les Picatins a few before yours which said their first Encore cruise was great at least gives some comfort that the larger ships can work when the crew is right, or perhaps (I don't know how full either of those two cruises were) when the ship isn't packed. It's possible also Seabourn's crew got a little thinned out by the launch of Ovation and they haven't yet trained and retained enough good staff to keep the service level where they, and we, expect it.

 

We'll let a few of the sales come and go and then see what looks like good value, keeping an eye on the board reviews as time progresses.

[markham]

Seabourn has to establish what the brand means to the revenue base, us, as soon as possible, or they will be entrenching a 2 tiered Seabourn. It was always clear to me that adding 150 people on Encore with only one more deck was simply a way of trying to improve their margins. Now we can see it means also less service per passenger due to relatively fewer crew including officers. Of course we can all see that there are a couple of particular consolations- upgrades such as the beautiful and larger Observation Bar, Seabourn Square and TK Grills, and the welcome addition of the Sushi Restaurant. No one with a sharp eye is taken in by the same sized MDR, pool area, and that ridiculous members only Retreat.

 

I do not believe that Seabourn in the past 10 years since Odyssey was designed and conceived was ever at risk of bankrupting itself, as mentioned in an earlier post. Where did that come from? Who got the word from past and post-Encore launch internal Seabourn margin management meetings? And from those meetings what might have been the occupancy rates on Encore, at what price points per cabin category including single occupancy since then on the revenue side relative to the staffing and other economies of scale cost savings? And what about customer satisfaction ratings? What do they count for in the follow-on senior managment meetings?

 

It's clearly time for Seabourn to take a hard look at its 5 mainline ships' value proposition by improving service levels with better training of all staff and to ensure consistency across the fleet. And if that requires an acceptance that Encore, and now Ovation, are too crowded for their own good, then do something about it. Looking ahead, a couple of years avoid at all costs the same mistakes and/or very much differentiate the new, smaller expedition ships with whatever pricing levels that reflect the value they deliver. This is the smart way to protect and enhance the brand. Do it right and do it at the start. The market where the demand arises for discretionary luxury cruise passenger revenues is thereby treated respectfully and thoughtfully, as are the crew who deserve no less, no matter which Seabourn ship their contracts take them.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[Able Seaman H]

Are Encore & Ovation more profitable? I certainly hope so, Seabourn is a business and they need to carry on making money in what are increasingly adverse conditions. Competition, rising costs and particularly relevant to you & I Markham decimated currency exchange rates of some customers.

 

Having a world audience Seabourn need to make sure they remain appealing price wise to people like us who now only get $1.25 - $1.30 for a pound rather than $1.65 - $1.70. The global nature of the internet means all markets need price parity, they can't just make cruises cheaper in the U.K. Otherwise Americans will book everything through UK agents.

 

So part of the solution is Encore / Ovation. If you reduce numbers by 100 without increasing prices revenue drops and that's where you risk failure. I have no idea what the various break points are but it doesn't take a genius to know if numbers go down prices have to go up.

 

I'm repeating myself by saying there are 3 smaller ships if Encore & Ovation aren't for you. See it that the larger ships subsidise your cruising on the smaller ships and be greatful for the people, like me, who are happy to sail on them as things currently stand.

 

I don't care that you can no longer fit the whole ship in the dining room. I'll have dinner in the larger TK restaurant or give my body the night off and eat in Sushi. I might even go informal and enjoy the Colonnade. In over 100 nights onboard I have still yet to try the Patio Grill or what is it called now, Heaven, wind, sea & something :)

 

Yes, reducing numbers across the board would be great if it meant prices didn't have to increase but I suspect they would and I like the relative affordability of Seabourn as it stands.

 

There will always be variations in service given the scale of Seabourn's operation and the fact they have introduced new ships. Thankfully senior staff have always been on hand and approachable when needed and they seem to jump in and make amends. Dare I say it, the Retreat is even there as a complimentary olive branch if necessary.

 

Henry :)

[Mr Luxury]

I do understand what Markam is saying about reducing numbers on the larger ships but I think Henry is right that by doing so would inevitably see prices having to rise.

I have never seen a cruise line reduce passenger numbers on any ship in fact the cruise industry has a history of making existing ships bigger more recently Silversea stretched the Silver Spirit and I do remember sailing on the SS Norway previously the SS France that also had a bit put in the middle.

I think we can assume that 600 guests will be the norm on the Encore/Ovation but let's now see some common sense from Seabourn and get rid of the Retreat and give the space back to all of the guests and also let's see the club bar on the Encore redesigned as they have on the Ovation and throw plenty of experienced staff at the MDR so that it can function properly

Please,Pretty Please 🤞

 

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[frantic36]

I think we can assume that 600 guests will be the norm on the Encore/Ovation but let's now see some common sense from Seabourn and get rid of the Retreat and give the space back to all of the guests and also let's see the club bar on the Encore redesigned as they have on the Ovation and throw plenty of experienced staff at the MDR so that it can function properly

Please,Pretty Please 🤞

 

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I totally agree with your suggestions Mr L.

 

We were lucky on our cruise and identified two sections that we were happy with the service in the MDR. Unfortunately I think both of the main servers for those sections were going on a break after our sailing.

 

Julie

[Able Seaman H]

Wise words Mr L which is surprising given the nonsense you normally spout whilst holding up those of us waiting to use the gym equipment for a proper work out :) :)

 

A bit of fine tuning.

 

For my own part I don't actually think the Retreat is a bad space I just struggle with being charged to sit in the shade particularly when you don't drink booze so a bottle of more palatable champers is wasted on me.

 

Having a shaded area based around the jacuzzi would relieve pressure on the pool area which does lack shade particularly when food is served and people need the tables. Retain bar service in the Retreat, possibly lose the food or have a more simplified menu.

 

Then I think you have solved much of the over crowding issues on sea days and you still get to retain passenger numbers revenue.

 

Charging for it on an all inclusive ship was the mistake and to be fair we all said as much when asked prior to inception.

 

Henry :)

[SLSD]

I totally agree about a fix for the overcrowding of the pool area. While I would not want to pay for The Retreat--on principle and because I would not stay long enough to make it make sense--I WOULD go there for a bit of reading in the shade and the hot tubs. It is a fairly large area and would accommodate the loungers by the pool who like shade and don't mind not having a sea view. SB could increase the satisfaction level of many passengers straight away if they would make this change immediately. Yes to bar service in the area and a simple menu.

[LittleRedJohn]

We just left Encore after three weeks. My review has been turned in to CruiseCritic. It is generally positive. But there were shortcomings on our trip. I said we expected more from a luxury cruise costing this much. We needed more consistent service. I don't think it's necessarily a lack of staff, it's a lack of organization and supervision. There was way too much talking and pointing among the wait staff. We needed more supervision at the swimming pool. Yes, the area is a little too small, but it could be adequate if managed with better staffing and supervision. While we had some excellent staff (Dora from Portugal in the main restaurant was wonderful), I was surprised that so many of the staff were not very accomplished. LittleRedJohn

[Able Seaman H]

I totally agree about a fix for the overcrowding of the pool area. While I would not want to pay for The Retreat--on principle and because I would not stay long enough to make it make sense--I WOULD go there for a bit of reading in the shade and the hot tubs. It is a fairly large area and would accommodate the loungers by the pool who like shade and don't mind not having a sea view. SB could increase the satisfaction level of many passengers straight away if they would make this change immediately. Yes to bar service in the area and a simple menu.

 

There you go, we've solved the problem.

 

 

Who do we invoice ?

 

 

 

Henry :)

[wripro]

The sad thing to me about all these discussions of Encore and Ovation vs. the O class ships is that no one is saying what needs to be said, Seabourn is no longer the Seabourn of old. It is doing just what it needs to maintain its spot as one of the luxury lines but that's all it is now, just one of a few luxury lines. That special feeling of the Yachts of Seabourn sailed off into the sunset with the departure of the triplets. I still think it's the best or one of the best but it's part of a group now and no longer heads the pack. Some of the complaints we are hearing now would have been unthinkable years ago. I realize time and conditions have changed and Seabourn has changed along with them. That's the sad part to me.

[Mr Luxury]

We just left Encore after three weeks. My review has been turned in to CruiseCritic. It is generally positive. But there were shortcomings on our trip. I said we expected more from a luxury cruise costing this much. We needed more consistent service. I don't think it's necessarily a lack of staff, it's a lack of organization and supervision. There was way too much talking and pointing among the wait staff. We needed more supervision at the swimming pool. Yes, the area is a little too small, but it could be adequate if managed with better staffing and supervision. While we had some excellent staff (Dora from Portugal in the main restaurant was wonderful), I was surprised that so many of the staff were not very accomplished. LittleRedJohn

 

 

 

Dora was very good,no wonder she served at our table when we dined with the Hotel Director

 

 

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[Mr Luxury]

There you go, we've solved the problem.

 

 

Who do we invoice ?

 

 

 

Henry :)

 

 

 

Markham and I will pay as long as it’s sorted soon.

 

 

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[Mr Luxury]

I totally agree with your suggestions Mr L.

 

 

 

We were lucky on our cruise and identified two sections that we were happy with the service in the MDR. Unfortunately I think both of the main servers for those sections were going on a break after our sailing.

 

 

 

Julie

 

 

 

That seems to be the issue Julie.

Hit and miss service in a busy crowded dining room.

Luxury cruise lines are taking staff from each other and finding it hard to bring new talent through the ranks.

Hope you and Keith are well

 

 

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[SLSD]

The executive chef on the Encore told us a year ago that the biggest problem he sees for the future is retaining staff. This is why (he told us) he tries to make his kitchen(s) a good place to work without stress. He said that he considers the happiness of his kitchen staff to be essential. He explained that there are so many ships and so many places to work that he could lose his staff (and their expertise) if they are not happy.

 

I do think that finding crew that meet the qualifications SB is looking for is getting more and more difficult. For example, being able to speak English is one of the requirements, and yet, on the Ovation in June, several of the service mixups (both MDR and room service) we experienced were as a result of the crew member not having a sufficient command of English. I had to explain over and over again a room service order (trying to order from MDR menu during dinner hours) and the crew member answering the room service line NEVER understood what I was saying. The order (similar to something available on the RS menu) went in wrong and I did not get what I ordered. This was because of his poor English skills.

 

Same thing in the MDR one evening. Our waiter could barely understand our order and may even have input it incorrectly into the iPad he was using. Once again, a major factor was his poor knowledge of English.

 

Why is this happening? I think SB is hiring the best that they can hire, but they have to hire someone and sometimes all of their qualifications are not met.

 

Other crew members who DO have an excellent command of English (I'm thinking of a wonderful young man from the Netherlands here) and are excellent at their jobs, have felt that the hours are too long with not enough shore time in ports. They are leaving and probably have prospects elsewhere.

[Tarwood3]

I do understand what Markam is saying about reducing numbers on the larger ships but I think Henry is right that by doing so would inevitably see prices having to rise.

I have never seen a cruise line reduce passenger numbers on any ship in fact the cruise industry has a history of making existing ships bigger more recently Silversea stretched the Silver Spirit and I do remember sailing on the SS Norway previously the SS France that also had a bit put in the middle.

I think we can assume that 600 guests will be the norm on the Encore/Ovation but let's now see some common sense from Seabourn and get rid of the Retreat and give the space back to all of the guests and also let's see the club bar on the Encore redesigned as they have on the Ovation and throw plenty of experienced staff at the MDR so that it can function properly

Please,Pretty Please 🤞

 

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Actually Crystal is in process of refurbishing their 2 ships and reducing passenger numbers....

[Mr Luxury]

Sounds interesting

Tell us more

I've been on the Serenity

It was a dreadful ship but the Nobu restaurant was excellent

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[Tarwood3]

So, I just got off the Encore on Saturday from a 7 day cruise. This was our first SB cruise but we have cruised a lot with a lot of different lines, but more with Silversea than anything else. There have been lots of posts on here since I left for our cruise, so after reading all the posts over the last 2 weeks, I thought I would make a couple observations from what I experienced in response to some of the statements that have been made on here.

Firstly, we had an awesome cruise. We were so impressed by so many aspects of SB...the crew is amazing. The ship is gorgeous and immaculate. The modern and light decor certainly suits us. We really enjoyed the mix of age ranges and nationalities. Silversea tends to skew much older and primarily British (we are American and 46 and 51 yo). The ambience and energy on SB was far superior to the cruises we have done on SS. People seemed much more social on SB than SS. People actually were in the bars and out and about both before and after dinner. SS always seems dead. So we really loved the vibe of the ship. There are so many aspects of the cruise I could go into more detail, but I’m stil jet lagged and don’t feel Iike writing a book.

I will agree with many posters about The Retreat ...very dumb. Something like that works on a mass market shiplike Carnival or RCCL etc where suite customers like to have their own special place, but it has no place on a small ultra luxury all inclusive ship. A poster on here said he wouldn’t be back on Encore until they sort out the Retreat issue...that seems like a very odd reason not to book Encore again. Was your cruise really that terrible because you didnt have access?? I also agree with other posters that the sun deck is too small for the size of the ship. We had no sea days, I could only imagine the chaos of trying to find a place. There seemed to be too many table and chairs for the Patio Grill then loungers for pool people. I dont like the tiered sun deck. I dont want to climb up 2 or 3 flights of stairs for loungers that have no shade and not convenient to food and beverage. I will disagree with several posters who said service was poor on pool deck. I have never been asked so many times if I wanted a drink or to have my drink refreshed as this cruise. I also liked that the bartenders would make fun cocktails and daiquiris and the staff would walk around and offer something extra/special...

I would agree that service seemed slow in the MDR...I dont deal well with dinner lasting longer than 1.5 hours and twice it was 2-2 1/4 hrs...too long for us. While there was a lag in service, I dont think service was bad..and not sure if the slowness comes from the kitchen or the wait staff slowing courses down to keep up???

TK GRILL: Food was awesome! Service was great. Loved our dinner here and loved the TK bar before and after dinner (regardless if we ate there or not).

Several posters said they thought there wasnt enough staffing? I dont really agree with this. We felt like we were attended to very well. We never really waited for anything. WE never had to go looking for staff to help us out. I really dont think slow service in MDR has anything to do with staffing. I think the kitchen is overwhelmed. Another poster said they thought the casino was too large?? Really? There;s not much in there..2 card tables, a roulette wheel and some slot machines. Definitely not too large. Someone complained about the size of the bar in the Club...this will be rectified when Encore goes into dry dock next year. This was confirmed by an officer to us at dinner.

Another poster who was on my cruise said room service was always a half hour late always? We ordered room service several times and never found this to be the case. Always on time.

Another poster asked what port we missed? It was the first stop...Bonifacio Corsica. We had gale force winds. It was a very very rough night. We stopped in Ajaccio Corsica which is on the west coast of Corsica as opposed to the southern tip of Corsica where Bonifacio is. Our suite attendant said the kitchen did about 100 room service orders that night. A lot of people were quite ill the next day according to the crew.

That’s probably enough for now...ask away if you have any questions about the Encore, our experience , difference between SS and SB whatever...happy to answer..

 

In closing, I obviously have no point of reference comparing Encore to the O class ships. But I think SB offers an amazing experience on the Encore and no one should be afraid to book. I find that many of the old timers on here are very much like what I have experienced on SS....they are resistant to change. SS folks complain vehemently about Muse and the Musification of the line...they love their small ships and dont like change. But the fact is that business must not sit on their laurels. There’s tons of competition out there and businesses must evolve and change to keep up with the next generation of cruisers. Some of the posters seem to be overly critical of SB...looking for things to complain about. No cruise line can be everything to everyone. Maybe I’m too easy going than most...but I’m just so happy and fortunate to be able to experience luxury travel and all the perks that come with it. I never take for granted how fortunate we are to be able to afford such an amazing life.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Tarwood3
Forgot to add something

[Able Seaman H]

Thanks for taking the time to post Gary.

 

Always refreshing to get the viewpoint of someone new looking with fresh eyes.

 

There is a danger on here that with several hundred nights under their belts some posters get blasé and have unrealistic expectations. Worst still they look back at a bygone era with rose tinted spectacles.

 

The triplets were of their time and I suspect if priced at today's market rate you'd fall of your chair when you saw the fare.

 

Henry :)

[Pavovsky]

The executive chef on the Encore told us a year ago that the biggest problem he sees for the future is retaining staff. This is why (he told us) he tries to make his kitchen(s) a good place to work without stress. He said that he considers the happiness of his kitchen staff to be essential. He explained that there are so many ships and so many places to work that he could lose his staff (and their expertise) if they are not happy.

 

I do think that finding crew that meet the qualifications SB is looking for is getting more and more difficult. For example, being able to speak English is one of the requirements, and yet, on the Ovation in June, several of the service mixups (both MDR and room service) we experienced were as a result of the crew member not having a sufficient command of English. I had to explain over and over again a room service order (trying to order from MDR menu during dinner hours) and the crew member answering the room service line NEVER understood what I was saying. The order (similar to something available on the RS menu) went in wrong and I did not get what I ordered. This was because of his poor English skills.

 

Same thing in the MDR one evening. Our waiter could barely understand our order and may even have input it incorrectly into the iPad he was using. Once again, a major factor was his poor knowledge of English.

 

Why is this happening? I think SB is hiring the best that they can hire, but they have to hire someone and sometimes all of their qualifications are not met.

 

Other crew members who DO have an excellent command of English (I'm thinking of a wonderful young man from the Netherlands here) and are excellent at their jobs, have felt that the hours are too long with not enough shore time in ports. They are leaving and probably have prospects elsewhere.

 

 

 

Seabourn and cruise lines will need to invest or perhaps partner with schools to ensure they have the requisite labour. It was mentioned that staffing is presenting a challenge.

 

Heard also from several staff members that the long hours and little shoretime is a factor on looking elsewhere.

 

I must say that there were some outstanding staff members aboard the Odyssey last month. I have already mentioned some less than outstanding.

 

 

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[rols]

The sad thing to me about all these discussions of Encore and Ovation vs. the O class ships is that no one is saying what needs to be said, Seabourn is no longer the Seabourn of old. It is doing just what it needs to maintain its spot as one of the luxury lines but that's all it is now, just one of a few luxury lines. That special feeling of the Yachts of Seabourn sailed off into the sunset with the departure of the triplets. I still think it's the best or one of the best but it's part of a group now and no longer heads the pack. Some of the complaints we are hearing now would have been unthinkable years ago. I realize time and conditions have changed and Seabourn has changed along with them. That's the sad part to me.

 

I don't see it exactly like that but agree up to a point. I always felt Seabourn peaked with the Odyssey class, having built a good brand around service on the little ships they were able to scale that to custom designed ships which were new, bright, yes with more passengers but also more facilities. I never really liked the original ships as ships, they were a bit quirky with the pool round the corner and the second restaurant (the original R2) which tried to be classy in the evening but was just a bit pokey. The Odyssey class gave Seabourn the opportunity, which they mostly took, to give similar service levels to more people on a 'better' ship.

 

What's happened since is a matter of debate. Can you have a 'large' luxury line and fill the ships at a per-passenger cost which enables you to pay the staff and buy premium ingredients and wines etc, are there enough people willing and able to pay those prices. Perhaps if all Seabourn had were the two E class ships or just the three O class they could fill those at closer to the brochure fares they would like, staff them with the cream of the industry and buy a different champagne (*). I think there's a limit to how much you can scale a brand without diluting it and perhaps that limit has been surpassed, or perhaps it's just been reached with Seabourn.

 

One observation, again just a personal feeling; looking at upcoming cruises I'm generally finding the O class ships are pricing at a higher per-night cost than the Es. If in fact that is the case and continues to be so, I wonder if the bean counters' spreadsheets will notice that and wonder if they have in fact bifurcated their brand.

 

If indeed Seabourn and Silversea and Crystal have over-expanded the 'lux' market, perhaps someone will step in with a new 'small yacht' concept line and re-take the crown. I would expect the prices if that happened to give me the kind of ouch factor our first Silversea cruise gave me.

 

(*) note I actually don't hate the Nicky Fooey and drink my body weight in it most cruises.

[MightyQuinn]

...this will be rectified when Encore goes into dry dock next year...

Do you know when Encore goes into dry dock next year? I did a forum search but came up dry. :D:D

[Tarwood3]

Do you know when Encore goes into dry dock next year? I did a forum search but came up dry. :D:D

 

No, he didnt say the month when it goes into dry dock...and I didnt ask either. He said that new ships go into dry dock about 2 years after delivery to fix anything that is wrong Or need to be changed. He said that they have a 2 year type of warranty from the manufacturer where the ship goes in to have all the issues addressed before it’s out of warranty. It was funny, just like a car...He mentioned a couple things that are changing, I unfortunately only remember the bar area in the Club changing to be like what is on Ovation. So I am assuming anything else that is new and different on Ovation will be duplicated on Encore....unfortunately , he didnt mention anything about the Retreat issue...

[rols]

No, he didnt say the month when it goes into dry dock...and I didnt ask either. He said that new ships go into dry dock about 2 years after delivery to fix anything that is wrong Or need to be changed. He said that they have a 2 year type of warranty from the manufacturer where the ship goes in to have all the issues addressed before it’s out of warranty. It was funny, just like a car...He mentioned a couple things that are changing, I unfortunately only remember the bar area in the Club changing to be like what is on Ovation. So I am assuming anything else that is new and different on Ovation will be duplicated on Encore....unfortunately , he didnt mention anything about the Retreat issue...

 

We asked when the large dent in the back was going to get fixed and were told 'next year', so that would seem to indicate a dry dock, well next year. Not very accurate.

 

I put my feedback about the Retreat into the post-cruise survey, it seemed the most useful place. I think the officers and crew on board are very well aware how popular it isn't but aren't going to say anything. I expect we'll endure that for a couple of years yet.

[Tarwood3]

We asked when the large dent in the back was going to get fixed and were told 'next year', so that would seem to indicate a dry dock, well next year. Not very accurate.

 

I put my feedback about the Retreat into the post-cruise survey, it seemed the most useful place. I think the officers and crew on board are very well aware how popular it isn't but aren't going to say anything. I expect we'll endure that for a couple of years yet.

 

I did my survey today and mentioned about the retreat as well. I also mentioned it on board as well.....and yes, agreed, they are well aware of people’s displeasure with it...

[BasandSyb]

Have read these comments with interest. We have not been terribly interested in the larger ships and certainly didn't want to try them while in their post launch teething stages. However, we are dipping our toes in the water this Christmas on Encore - for a holiday break in our regional area at a good price rather than a chosen itinerary on a chosen ship.

We too have been scratching our heads these past few years with the "innovations" on the new ships and have wondered who the company thinks it is pitching to. At least one issue has been rectified, but it's amazing how Seabourn seems to barrel along blinkered to feedback. In this statement we include the chaotic MDR and Colonnade O class experiences of our last few trips. We haven't seen improvement over the last 12 months and from comments here, note that it has been raised again as an issue by some which is a worry.

Inexperienced crew, too few staff for proper service ratios and changed practices that have alienated their more experienced members. It's unfortunate that their most experienced crew who had voiced issues have been moved on (mid cruise putting more pressure on others). Introducing change is about taking people with you. From what we saw, the staff weren't obstructionist, they were the victims of reduced staffing numbers, imposed change, more table allocation and broader duties (including wine service) and were run absolutely ragged. We have never seen so many wine stained tablecloths and wine mix ups. At the same time, they were trying to get the myriad of special orders and food delivery correct. Kitchen errors then threw everything out resulting in disjointed courses. It got to the stage on a 35 day cruise that we chose to sit in the same place every night, drink the same wine to help the staff so at least they had one calm corner and we had an uneventful dinner.

We are recently back from 14 days in French Polynesia on the Paul Gauguin - our 5th trip. 310 passengers and a well oiled, friendly, nothing is too much trouble, service oriented relaxing holiday. They have staff on board who have been with the ship since its launch in 1998 who are now Godparents to a myriad of staff offspring. The crew is a very tight family. Everyone knows what they are doing and pre-empt every request with a joke and a smile. We had 3 other Seabourn Diamond couples with us who were blown away with the superior food, wine and service. It was certainly a different world from our last "luxury" Seabourn experience.

We will go to Encore with an open mind as the crew always try their best. Looking forward to the sushi and trying the Earth and Ocean experience - the Patio Grill was much in need of a night time makeover.

While this isn't the correct thread but there are some crossover posters, thanks to those posting on the Voyage of the Vikings. Loved your pics and comments. Did it in 2016 so was very interested in the changed itinerary. What a fab time you had!