Jen Smith on Oprah

[1corona4u]

[quote name='KKeeganS']That could be very important if it turns out the chair was in a position near the balcony to allow someone to step/jump over the railing, or if it was pushed out of the way as if two people had needed the space to push/throw someone over the balcony. Then again, if the chair was near the railing it could indicate George jumped, or someone tried to get onto the life raft to throw his body into the water.


Interesting.[/quote]

If you look at the pix of the cabin, the back of the chair was up against the railing. Others have said that the back of the chair was there when they[RCI] first entered the cabin. The captain is one who said that, when he was interviewed by Dan Abrams. This is why the captain speculated it might have been anm accident. Alluding to maybe GS smith used it to climb up onto the railing. Now some others think it could have been used for leverage, to throw someone over....

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Humm, she doesn't remeber anything after the casino...so she must have been given the drug in the casino...perhaps by the woman who says she was not drunk, clearly the person who gave her the drug would know that she was not drunk (or is being drunk a form of being drugged). After all the casino is where the big bucks were made right.

OMG, I forgot, the were loosing money in the casino..DH had to go back to the room to bail DW out. And despite being drugged in the casino, she was able to keep drinking for some time at the disco, make happy face with an employee in the Disco, give the DH a kick in the groin, and walk off..yep clearly she had a slow acting mickey. Yep clearly a vast conspiracy involving Russian KGB, mafia, RCCL and Elvis. Perhaps the FBI is not telling us about the fried peanut butter and banana sandwich the Turks may have found!!

RCCL was told by the US Government that they (US Gov.) had made arrangements for DW's return to the USA. RCCL relied on the USG...probably FEMA rejects. Shame on RCCL for relying on the USG including the FBI. CSI reruns should be mandatory viewing for all employees.

[croozaholic]

Last weekend Greta noted the balcony dimensions were about 40-something square feet. I estimated that the balcony was about 10' wide by 4' to the railing. There were two chairs and a table on the balcony. So just to get from one end of the balcony to the other, it is completely plausible that the chair was up against the railing just to be out of the way. Also, if GS was sitting on the railing and "tipped over", the blood smear would have been directly below the railing. When I look at the photos, it appears that the blood smear was more toward the "outward" side of the canopy away from the cabins. So GS would have had to have had a little forward motion during the fall. That kind of discounts the thought that he accidently fell to me. Like most othershere, I was also disappointed in the Oprah show. Someone should have asked some tough questions and they didn't. I've been a long time lurker and this whole episode has been fascinating to me. I really enjoy reading the threads about this one. Keep up the good work folks!!!

[KKeeganS]

[quote name='1corona4u']If you look at the pix of the cabin, the back of the chair was up against the railing. Others have said that the back of the chair was there when they[RCI] first entered the cabin. The captain is one who said that, when he was interviewed by Dan Abrams. This is why the captain speculated it might have been anm accident. Alluding to maybe GS smith used it to climb up onto the railing. Now some others think it could have been used for leverage, to throw someone over....[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. I have mostly been following the news through the discussion on the boards. We had scheduled to tape Oprah yesterday, but our power was out so we missed it :(

[Barefoot_Pirate]

The "experts" on Gretta tended to agree that the blood spot looked to have been smeared by DH after the fall...ie: he was still alive. They discussed the bleeding patterns, and what parts of the body tend to bleed the most. No conclusions, but of interest.

[Denese96]

After watching the Oprah show today, I agree with GranysT posting...it is exactly what I was thinking--some type of drugging occurred and a foiled robbery.

I agree there was a misunderstanding about what type of escort she was to receive. However, as a loyal RCCL cruiser I find it utterly apprehensible that RCCI did not provide her a ticket home. What if her dad did not have the money? Would they have left her in Turkey?

I do pray that some finite information is provided for all involved. The not knowing is the worst.

[Robby2299]

I think the wife knows a bit more of what went on then she is leading people to believe.

[KevBew]

[quote name='Denese96'] I agree there was a misunderstanding about what type of escort she was to receive. However, as a loyal RCCL cruiser I find it utterly apprehensible that RCCI did not provide her a ticket home. What if her dad did not have the money? Would they have left her in Turkey? [/QUOTE]

You go on vacation to...Turkey. You had to fly there, correct? You stay in a hotel overlooking the sea. The same circumstances take place and your husband falls into the sea and is quickly eaten by sharks.

Now, is it the responsibility of the hotel to fly you home? Is it the hotel's responsibility to conduct an investigation? THINK ABOUT IT! The cruise ship is not a giant adult day care center. You are in a public place and you need to act RESPONSIBLY!

Why is RCCL being held to this unachievable level of responsibility? No! I don't think they owe her ANYTHING beyond what she has already received.

The Turks had jurisdictional authority over the event. RCCL has no authority whatsoever and acted as they should. They gave the authorities access to the scene and following conclusion of the investigation authorities gave the vessel permission to leave

And let's be clear, JHS made the decision to leave the ship. RCCL DID NOT drop her on the dock to fend for herself.

[canucks4]

KevBew - B I N G O!!! Agree on all points.

Sad she lost her spouse - she will have many regrets likely for the rest of her life. But the hotel, i.e. RCI-BOS is not responsible.

[Zeno]

[quote name='Ali-in-Texas']I kept wondering why she was so upset about what she didn't get out of RCL when her husband is missing or dead. She seems to put all of the blame on RCL.

I went into this program not knowing much about the incident. I came away thinking what a spoiled brat she is.[/QUOTE]

That's what I find so peculiar - if my husband went missing on a cruiseship, I would be a lot more concerned about HIM than about how well the cruiseline treated ME.

[Onessa]

She really didn't "come off" well. While we are all saddened by her loss, I am tired of the media-blitz. Over 120,000 people (mainly civilians) died in the conflict in the Congo in the last year. The Israli military is cracking down on settlers on the West Bank. The US Senate is working through the nomination process for a Supreme Court Juctice. I would think that Nancy and Greta, CNN and Fox, and all the rest of them should have something better to do than to make the Smith family's attorney's rich(er) off of the inevitable law suit.

[Mamacruisediva]

:( I do not know much about the case, however I do remember early on that she did not say much if anything at all! Very smart girl. She probably saw her lawyer and the lawyer was and is telling her what to discuss and how to slant it. Putting RCL's "faults" in the spotlight certainly keeps them busy trying to keep damage at a minimum and takes the heat of her!

I don't know if we will ever have all the facts. There are some crimes that are too difficult to solve! Time will tell!

[MizzouMary]

[quote name='Leafpeeper']I think many people are forming opinions without the facts. I am waiting for the FBI and Dr. Lee to wrap things up first. Nobody knows how they would react if something like this happened--doesn't mean anything. The FBI cleared the wife early on. I want to hear more from witnesses. One couple said the Bride and Groom were sober at 2:30am. How did they pass out 90 minutes later? Still need alot more info before making up my mind. In the end, we will probably never know for sure.[/quote]

I have been following this story from the beginning reading the CC boards, watching "Inside Edition" and the various news programs trying to solve this case. I also saw the "Oprah" show yesterday. I thought the president of RCI handled himself appropriately, while my opinion of Jennifer Smith is that she seemed very cold and self-absorbed.

Leafpeeper, I also thought it was strange how the bride and groom could be fine at 2:30 a.m., as reported yesterday by the couple who spoke to them last in the casino, and then both of them are incoherent 90 mins. later. They apparently were slipped something in their drinks while they were in the bar partying with the "new friends" they had made while on the ship. There also had been reports the group was drinking absynth, which is a very potent drink outlawed in the U.S. The new friends walked George back to his room, and soon after, the occupants of adjacent cabins heard loud voices, furniture being moved around and a loud thump. I recently saw crime scene photos on CNN that were taken the next morning. The room was trashed and the in-room safe was empty with the door wide open. According to past stories, George Smith had a large sum of cash in the safe. It seems obvious that the motive was money. At least that is my theory. However, we may never know.

It is just a very sad story. I guess the moral of it would be to be VERY careful when traveling and don't let your guard down just because you are on a cruise ship.

[1corona4u]

[quote name='mfinn']I recently saw crime scene photos on CNN that were taken the next morning. The room was trashed and the in-room safe was empty with the door wide open. According to past stories, George Smith had a large sum of cash in the safe. It seems obvious that the motive was money. At least that is my theory. However, we may never know.

[/quote]

That is so not true. Those photos were AFTER the investigation was completed. And after Marie had gone in and packed up the room. They were not "crime scene photos".(as in the same day) That's what the media spin was, not the facts.

[B]From RCI;[/B]

[B]Myth 9. [/B]"Before and after" photographs of the Smith's cabin, taken on July 5 and 7, respectively, show that Royal Caribbean tampered with evidence or interfered with the crime scene or investigations.
[LIST]
[*]This is false.
[*]Royal Caribbean had voluntarily given the photos and other information to the Smith's attorneys in good faith and requested that the information be kept "confidential so that nothing is done to compromise the FBI's investigation."
[*]The two photos were a "before" photo, taken at approximately 9 a.m. on July 5, and an "after" photo taken at approximately 4 p.m. on July 7.
[*]The "before" photo shows the Smith's cabin immediately after the ship's Captain ordered the cabin sealed and posted a guard.
[*]The "after" picture followed three important events, all of which the company has disclosed previously:[LIST]
[*]July 5: Turkish authorities conducted and extensive forensic investigation.
[*]July 5: Our Guest Relations Manager entered the Smith's cabin to pack their belongings. A U.S. Consulate official joined her in the cabin.
[*]July 7: The FBI and a U.S. Consulate official boarded the ship and entered the Smith's cabin in Piraeus, Greece.[/LIST]
[*]The difference between the two photos is not due to any tampering but to these three events, especially the forensic examination. Obviously, that examination, which included taking fingerprints testing for blood and removing evidence, would be expected to disrupt the scene. All the "before" and "after" photos demonstrate is that the investigators were thorough.[/LIST]And yes, I will believe them over anything reported on TV, as it's just sensationalism.

No one has ever even confirmed any of the Smith's finances, winnings or anything else for that matter. No one.


I would suggest people go to RCI's website, and read.
[URL="http://www.royalcaribbean.com/ourCompany/pressCenter/pressReleases.do"]http://www.royalcaribbean.com/ourCompany/pressCenter/pressReleases.do[/URL]

[curlyd]

[quote name='Denese96']After watching the Oprah show today, I agree with GranysT posting...it is exactly what I was thinking--some type of drugging occurred and a foiled robbery.

However, as a loyal RCCL cruiser I find it utterly apprehensible that RCCI did not provide her a ticket home. What if her dad did not have the money? Would they have left her in Turkey?

[/QUOTE]

I can't find the quote but I thought that the RCI pres. thought the consolate was paying for the airfare and if they had known the consolate didn't pay for it, RCI would definately have paid the airfare home.

I think it was on the O web site but can't be sure.

Now personally I don't think RCI needed to do that but it would have been good PR.

[MizzouMary]

[quote name='1corona4u']That is so not true. Those photos were AFTER the investigation was completed. And after Marie had gone in and packed up the room. They were not "crime scene photos".(as in the same day) That's what the media spin was, not the facts.

[B]From RCI;[/B]

[B]Myth 9. [/B]"Before and after" photographs of the Smith's cabin, taken on July 5 and 7, respectively, show that Royal Caribbean tampered with evidence or interfered with the crime scene or investigations.
[LIST]
[*]This is false.
[*]Royal Caribbean had voluntarily given the photos and other information to the Smith's attorneys in good faith and requested that the information be kept "confidential so that nothing is done to compromise the FBI's investigation."
[*]The two photos were a "before" photo, taken at approximately 9 a.m. on July 5, and an "after" photo taken at approximately 4 p.m. on July 7.
[*]The "before" photo shows the Smith's cabin immediately after the ship's Captain ordered the cabin sealed and posted a guard.
[*]The "after" picture followed three important events, all of which the company has disclosed previously:[LIST]
[*]July 5: Turkish authorities conducted and extensive forensic investigation.
[*]July 5: Our Guest Relations Manager entered the Smith's cabin to pack their belongings. A U.S. Consulate official joined her in the cabin.
[*]July 7: The FBI and a U.S. Consulate official boarded the ship and entered the Smith's cabin in Piraeus, Greece.[/LIST]
[*]The difference between the two photos is not due to any tampering but to these three events, especially the forensic examination. Obviously, that examination, which included taking fingerprints testing for blood and removing evidence, would be expected to disrupt the scene. All the "before" and "after" photos demonstrate is that the investigators were thorough.[/LIST]And yes, I will believe them over anything reported on TV, as it's just sensationalism.

No one has ever even confirmed any of the Smith's finances, winnings or anything else for that matter. No one.


I would suggest people go to RCI's website, and read.
[URL="http://www.royalcaribbean.com/ourCompany/pressCenter/pressReleases.do"]http://www.royalcaribbean.com/ourCompany/pressCenter/pressReleases.do[/URL][/quote]

I am just stating what was reported. Hopefully, we all will know the truth someday.

[1corona4u]

[quote name='Leafpeeper']One couple said the Bride and Groom were sober at 2:30am. How did they pass out 90 minutes later? [/quote]

Umm, how about the witnesses LIED? Funny how they just came forward now.....not to mention that they went to the VC to continue their drinking binge, then did shots of Absinthe, until 3:30 AM, when Jennifer left by herself.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

She may have been a lush that night, but I think the consensus is that she had nothing to do with DH going over.

I am blown away by the focus on DW and her antics. How she really feels, thinks, etc. may be masked by coaching by her lawyers. She may be focused on their instructions, so that she comes across as cold, calculating, money hungry, silly, etc.

DH is dead...and yet all are focused on her... I don't know, just don't understand why she as DW is not focused on how he died....she should be talking/ranting to the FBI about the case...not RCCL and the logo wear they gave her. I find it hard to comprehend Dr. Lee adding value to the FBI's ability...unless she has reason to doubt the FBI's ability and interest...in which case why not state that??

[katiel53]

I am just speculating as I have no real knowledge of the facts. It appears to me that Jennifer may be able to hide her drinking so that the "Friedlanders" could think she was sober. What about the witnesses saying they were drinking Absinthe in the lounge? What about how she supposedly was in the elevator with a casino employee and kind of snuggling with him? Could she have been outside the door to the crew area because that's where he left her?

She wanted RCI to take better care of her and that's what the whole Oprah show was about. My understanding was that RCI thought the US Consulate was paying her trip home. She complained also about her bill from the ship. Why shouldn't she pay for what she used? I know that sounds callous, but other people have had problems, albeit not falling overboard and they had to pay for their onboard charges. I am not trying to make RCI look good, but it's time this woman woke up and realized the whole world isn't about her.

I was also totally disappointed in Gayle King. She might have been a good news reporter, just like someone might have been a good singer 20 years ago. Yesterday, she all but kissed Jennifer's feet with her I believe her. Oprah looked to me like a fool ---no knowledge of anything in the case and then had the nerve to have RCI apologize. I give Adam Goldstein lots of credit. You could see he was grinding his teeth. Jennifer was the star of the show.

I feel that George's family needs some closure and I hope that they get it. For sure they won't get it from Jennifer who used the I was unconscious 4 hours before so how could I wonder where George was. (my paraphrasing) She was well coached by her ambulance chaser lawyer. Ok, that's my opinion. I'm sorry if it offends anyone-------other than Jennifer Smith.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

katie, I wondered about the location where she was found as well. At first I thought that she was dumped there by an employee who used the staff elivator to "get rid of" her when she passed out on him...but after some thought I dismissed that as not conforming to other info we have....a cleaning person saw her in an elivator, spoke to her and saw her get off on her floor....given the number of times I have taken a wrong turn on a ship when sober, I just thought that the obvious answer that she was lost and just decided to crash where she was made sense.

Also, booze will keep being processed into the blood stream for some time after you have a drink...that delayed reaction is a contributor to a lot of hangovers. IMHO

[C 2 C]

[quote name='curlyd']Now personally I don't think RCI needed to do that but it would have been good PR.[/quote]
But why. The purpose of insurance is to protect against unforeseen events. That is why the Travel Industry suggests it. If Cruiselines would pay for the survivor to get home, why get insurance? People die very regularly on cruises... though they are normally quite older.

About ten years ago a groom ate some seafood on (Horizon I believe) had an allergic reaction, died and was dropped off at the nearest island (Bermuda?) with the bride to find their way home. On a trip to Blarney Castle, a Princess pax had a heart attack, died but his girlfriend continued on until the end of the voyage... Why do you think the cruiseline should pick up the tab ....just because of the Oprah "exposure"? or because you don't mind paying your share of her fare... It is not the cruiseline that pays... it's other passengers.

[Leafpeeper]

When the ship's maintenance crew found Jennifer passed out, they never considered she could have something wrong. They called security, who brought a wheelchair to bring her back to her cabin. Obviously, they should have brought her to the clinic for tests before bringing her back to her cabin--especially since she had no memory of the night before. She, like so many other women, could easily have been slipped a date night drug and been raped and not known it.

Another couple on another cruise had a similar incident, but fortunately lived to talk about it. He had won big in the casino. He and his wife were slipped a drug in their drinks and then helped to their cabin and robbed.

I don't think this case will ever be resolved. We can all guess what we think happened, but we really won't ever know unless the FBI gets someone to confess--highly unlikely.

It is obvious to me that RCCL is trying to correct their public relations image for dumping a young widow halfway across the world after her husband was killed--either by accident or murder doesn't matter. The fact that they don't have to be kind and generous doesn't mean that they shouldn't be. It's all about business to them. This was a bad business decision. Otherwise, they wouldn't be all over the tv trying to spin it.

[cats04]

Leafpeeper,
What cruise line did the similiar event take place? When? Do you have a link to an article? I'd love to read it. If this is true. Sounds like it could be a copycat.

[1corona4u]

[quote name='Leafpeeper']When the ship's maintenance crew found Jennifer passed out, [B]they never considered she could have something wrong.[/B] They called security, who brought a wheelchair to bring her back to her cabin. Obviously, they should have brought her to the clinic for tests before bringing her back to her cabin--especially since she had no memory of the night before. [/quote]

Yes, they did consider that.

[B]From the Jan 5th interview on Rita Cosby;[/B]

COSBY: Now, how drunk was she?

MARTENSTEIN: We found her asleep at 4:30 in the morning. So you‘ve got to go back earlier -- 4:30 in the morning, two of our crew members were cleaning. They found her. She was unconscious. We asked her...

COSBY: So much so that, what, she had to be taken in a wheelchair?

MARTENSTEIN: Yes. Yes, exactly right. [B]We called our medical facilities. We inquired—we asked about medical advice. We—with their advice, we were able to wake her up. We asked if she was OK. She said, Yes, I am OK. Our procedure is, we wheel her back. We wheeled her back to her cabin. We wheeled her back, opened the door, put her in, asked her again, Are you OK? She said, Yes, I am OK. We left her alone in her room. We saw nothing amiss in the cabin.[/B]

COSBY: Did they even check the cabin? Did they look to see if there was anything unusual, or did they just put her in there, thinking, Let‘s just put her to bed, she‘s drunk?

MARTENSTEIN: I think they went in—no, they didn‘t search the cabin. They didn‘t do an exhaustive—you know, they didn‘t look around the cabin. They took her in. They put her on the bed. They didn‘t see anything that was obviously amiss...

COSBY: Did they turn the lights...

MARTENSTEIN: ... and they left her there.

COSBY: ... on? Did they turn the lights on in the cabin?

MARTENSTEIN: I don‘t know that.

COSBY: Let‘s also talk about George Smith.

MARTENSTEIN: Sure.
[B]COSBY: We know—did he win a lot of money gambling? Do we know if he won a lot of money?[/B]

[B]MARTENSTEIN: You know, we haven‘t said. It‘s an ongoing investigation. The FBI has asked us specifically not to reveal certain details of the investigation, so I can‘t comment on that.[/B]
***********************************************


[B]This is a generic statement, but it has happened more than one time today.[/B]

When people post things that are half right, or part of the details, or false and leave out critical statements made by RCI, and their employees, then they are saying that they believe all of the hyperbole that most of the media is putting out there, not the source, who can be held accountable. [RCI]

Personally, I believe what RCI says, because there [B]is[/B] more accountability. Some of you are listening to JS, and buying into her "alibi". What I can't figure out is why would you believe her, when she claims to not remember what she had to drink that night? Along with other inconsistencies from her.

She has no credibility in my mind. No one will ever convince me that she or he were drugged, unless of course, you're going to allow the Absinthe to be called a drug, which they both willingly drank.

I would just like to know, if you believe her, why.

[huskerdude]

I have not followed this thing closley at all, but the DW tivo's Oprah everyday so I did watch it just because.
Just some things I noticed...
1. The lady seemed more concered about how she was treated in a foreign country than she was about her husband.
2. How in the world can you be sooo drunk at 4:30 in the morning that you can't even walk but 3-1/2 hrs later she wakes up and feels good enough to go to the spa? Not real proud of this but I have been drunk enough to "black out" and I was in no condition the entire next day to get out of bed let alone get up and do things.
3. I've been married almost 20 years and have NEVER not known where my spouse was sleeping, and she I. They slept apart at least one other night while on their honeymoon and that does not seem to bother her at all. She did not even care enough to go look for her husband that morning because she thought he was sleeping somewhere else.
4. RCCL did just about everything it could have. It did things by the book as should be. They had authorities come aboard and conduct an investigation. They helped her in a very stressful time. The ship was cleared to do what ever it needed to do by the Turkish police, and I beleive the FBI.
5. In hind sight RCCL maybe could have paid her airfare home and not billed her for room charges, but they were not obligatted to at any time. And hindsight is 20/20. In hindsight I'm sure she would change quite a few things that happened that night/morning but she never seems to want to admit to that. Her best excuse is "I really don't remember". And that's the part that bugs me the most about her.
6. I really do feel for his family, even some for her, I'm sure she did love her husband but just seems more worried about other things. We have lost a child and it the most gut wrentching thing a peoson can go through.
7. This ordeal will be made into a tv movie. It has everything needed for such stuff.