Kids Club with Special Needs

[GarlicBread]

You keep mentioning DCL. Yet you do realise they work to the same 1:25 ratio right? Only have a lot more kids in at one time and often go over that ratio so more chaos, more running and 100% of the time is free play....

 

Royal have their ratio and stick to it. Once its reached it's one out one in. So not understaffed. The first half an hour is free play so everyone can get checked in which is probably the crazy time you saw. Go back mid session and it would be way calmer than any Disney club...

 

I've worked in both so can truthfully say this...

[dbarazandeh]

15 minutes ago, GarlicBread said:

You keep mentioning DCL. Yet you do realise they work to the same 1:25 ratio right? Only have a lot more kids in at one time and often go over that ratio so more chaos, more running and 100% of the time is free play....

 

Royal have their ratio and stick to it. Once its reached it's one out one in. So not understaffed. The first half an hour is free play so everyone can get checked in which is probably the crazy time you saw. Go back mid session and it would be way calmer than any Disney club...

 

I've worked in both so can truthfully say this...

Thanks for sharing that about DCL - good to know! Believe me, I’d never take our young children again, but certainly without knowing 100% what we are getting into. And nope, many have assumed we went in there right at the beginning but we went in there about an hour before lunch time on the 2nd day. And no, we didn’t go back because our kids were so upset! They are really fun kids that love all sorts of adventures and don’t shy away from much of anything but neither of them would agre e to giving it another try, no matter how hard we pushed. 

[ReneeFLL]

dbazarandeh,

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Royal, but one of the things that many of us have learned the hard way is that if you call Royal and speak to 10 different people you will likely get 10 different answers. Unfortunately, this happens a lot and they should have all employees knowing the correct info. Cruise critic is a great place to learn since many people on here have been there and done that many times. I'm not saying don't call Royal, but maybe back up their info here.

 

 

[zerallamvuut]

18 hours ago, dbarazandeh said:

You are missing my point completely. First of all, it's horrible if there is a class anywhere that allows such a ratio you have mentioned. That's just wrong on many levels. Secondly, I did not at all say that the staff needed to be fully versed on how to meet the specific needs of my kids. What I am saying is that they clearly state they can handle special needs and they obviously couldn't handle ANY special needs I can think of with ratios like that. NOR WOULD I HAVE EVER LEFT MY NON-SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS THERE WHEN THEY WERE SMALL. It felt unsafe, chaotic and not fun. I didn't need one-on-one supervision, nor did I need any unusual kind of thing - just not a ratio that insane. Many of the kids in there looked worried, uneasy and just like you'd expect a kid to look if they were overwhelmed, overstimulated and disconnected. It was awful and had nothing to do with the special needs we had...it was far from being an environment to handle special needs, when they state over and over that they are all trained and welcome special needs kids.

 

I grew up in Taiwan until age 9. My elementary school classroom had 60+ for 1 teacher. I also was told that in high school it can be as much as 100 students in one class with 1 teacher, sometimes with an aid. That said, I don't think Taiwanese education system is that bad. They are focused a bit more on academics than a broad-based education here in Canada after I moved here.

 

That said, I have a 2 young ones (4.5 years old with ASD/SPD/OCD/ADHD) and a 18 month old so I can totally understand where you're coming from.

[Rala]

On 3/10/2019 at 7:58 PM, Biker19 said:

Same reason people call it the Diamond Lounge, instead of calling it by the sign by the door, Diamond Club.

Or the same reason people call it  a floor not a deck or a room not a cabin.  Methinks  little Matty (ie. mattj2000) doesn't have much on his mind except maybe his hat!!! 😉

[RoyMartin]

I think Royal Caribbean's website is misleading to say the least. They talk about how well trained they are and how they're equipped to deal with special needs and then on cruise day they say the ratio is 25 to 1? I know they never claimed a lower ratio but there's no way they can handle any significant special need with so few staff members for so many children. They claim to be trained to handle autism. Again, very misleading. They should be much more clear about what they're not offering.

We have a special needs son and travel in September. That's what caused me to visit this site. Fortunately, we have no need for a break from him. We assumed he would be with us every moment of the trip. Then I heard about Adventure Ocean and thought it might be great for him, a wonderful experience, if they have appropriate staffing and training. Until reading this thread, having only consulted the Royal Caribbean site, it sounded really promising. I'm glad I came here, because there's no way I'd consider leaving him there in that sort of madhouse with 25 kids to one adult. Regardless of whether that adult is supposedly trained in dealing with special needs children.

[smokeybandit]

I've never seen anything close to 25:1 ratios in AO.  It's usually 10:1 at most, usually lower.

[RoyMartin]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I've never seen anything close to 25:1 ratios in AO.  It's usually 10:1 at most, usually lower.

Thanks Smokey. When we arrive, we'll go to the introduction and see how it goes. If there are just a few kids per adult, it may work for my son. Otherwise, it's fine. Whether he participate and how much will be up to him. Just as long as he enjoys the experience of being on a cruise, I'm happy. My hope is it will be a great experience and a happy childhood memory that stays with him.

[cruizzing]

I'm not sure what the ratios were, but my kids have gone to AO several times since the restart.  DS didn't like it his first time and I was called to pick him up which I appreciated. He since tried it again and now loves it and neither want to leave. All times I've seen at least 2 adults in the room and never had a concern with safety or ratios. They love seeing their "friends" around the ship and have said it is one of their favorite cruise activities. Hope it works for you.

[CruiszBug]

On 4/8/2019 at 9:38 PM, spookwife said:

You do realize there are classrooms with higher ratios than that, right?  One teacher for 40-50 kids.  The whole ‘special needs’ umbrella covers a HUGE variety of situations and no one should have expected a mass market cruise line to be well versed in every nuance of every kid  on every cruise.  

Wow! Don't know your school system, but ours has a teacher, a classroom aide, and my daughter had an individual para-professional that stayed with her. There was also two nurses for the special needs children. This was from elementary to high school and never felt the classes were too big... That being said, we never leave her with people we don't know unless someone is allowed to be with her. I feel for the OP's angst. Sounds like they did their research and trusted what they were told. I'm sure that won't happen again...

[Itchy&Scratchy]

6 hours ago, RoyMartin said:

Thanks Smokey. When we arrive, we'll go to the introduction and see how it goes. If there are just a few kids per adult, it may work for my son. Otherwise, it's fine. Whether he participate and how much will be up to him. Just as long as he enjoys the experience of being on a cruise, I'm happy. My hope is it will be a great experience and a happy childhood memory that stays with him.

mine has hated kid's club with a passion since his first cruise at 3. He is 12 now and hasn't gone back. Nothing to do with the club itself - DS is NT, but really dislikes school and kid's club on cruises. Our friends' kids (one with ADHD) love it.

 

So, DS and we are attached at the hip on cruises, which is just fine with us - we welcome it very much.

[RoyMartin]

8 hours ago, cruizzing said:

I'm not sure what the ratios were, but my kids have gone to AO several times since the restart.  DS didn't like it his first time and I was called to pick him up which I appreciated. He since tried it again and now loves it and neither want to leave. All times I've seen at least 2 adults in the room and never had a concern with safety or ratios. They love seeing their "friends" around the ship and have said it is one of their favorite cruise activities. Hope it works for you.

Thank you.

[RoyMartin]

5 hours ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

mine has hated kid's club with a passion since his first cruise at 3. He is 12 now and hasn't gone back. Nothing to do with the club itself - DS is NT, but really dislikes school and kid's club on cruises. Our friends' kids (one with ADHD) love it.

 

So, DS and we are attached at the hip on cruises, which is just fine with us - we welcome it very much.

Could see it going either way with my son. Unless we try to force him to go, in which case he'll hate it. Fortunately, like you, we enjoy our time with him. There are so many things I'll enjoy showing him on the ship. He's kind of a "foodie" so hopefully he'll get interested in exploring new things to eat in a place where he can try various things.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

1 hour ago, RoyMartin said:

Could see it going either way with my son. Unless we try to force him to go, in which case he'll hate it. Fortunately, like you, we enjoy our time with him. There are so many things I'll enjoy showing him on the ship. He's kind of a "foodie" so hopefully he'll get interested in exploring new things to eat in a place where he can try various things.

how old is the kid and which ship?

[RoyMartin]

16 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

how old is the kid and which ship?

He'll be 9 by the date of sailing. Ovation of the Seas.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

1 hour ago, RoyMartin said:

He'll be 9 by the date of sailing. Ovation of the Seas.

oh, nice, we haven't been on Quantum class yet, it's probably even better than Oasis class. My kiddo was 8 on his first Allure cruise and 11 on his latest Allure cruise (Oasis class) and he loved it. Oasis class does have a Park Cafe which is his favorite (triple cheese grilled cheese sandwich and chips), but he also loves Sorrento's pepperoni pizza. I am sure Ovation will have some similar smaller venues as well in case the buffet is too overwhelming and crowded. On our first Allure cruise we never managed to get into the Windjammer for lunch because of long lines. It was much better on our summer 2022 sailing.

 

DS is not a foodie, though, and is very set in his ways (aka, very routine oriented), so he doesn't want to try anything new food wise. We developed a system for cruising which saves us all a lot of grief: he eats whatever he wants for breakfast and lunch, but I order his dinner to make sure that he gets fruits, veggies and something remotely nutritious. 

 

I am sure your son will have a blast!

[SNemeth]

Just wanted to add our experience as we sailed Disney and Royal when my children were young (now adults).  My son is on the autism spectrum, but like they say if you have seen one person with autism, you have seen one person with autism.  In our experience the Disney programs have a lot less structure, but all the bells and whistles.  They pack a lot of technology into the clubs and that can be enthralling for a lot of kids.  Both of my kids liked the clubs on Disney, and they got one on one attention when they chose to sit down and do things like crafts etc that not a lot of kids were doing, but if they wanted to spend time playing computer games they were solo a lot.  They also had a lot of choice as to what they did at any moment.  If a child need structured activities and guidance in making choices they may not have thrived in the environment.  Royal was completely different for us as they relied on organized activities without the high tech distractions.  Unfortunately, a lot of times participation in the scheduled activity was required and there were no other options if it did not appeal to the child.  By that time, luckily we felt comfortable with our kids being able to check themselves out and if together go get a slice of pizza or find something else to do.  If they were alone they had the option to come to use (we always told them where we would be) or go back to the cabin.  I guess my point is that the programs are very different and one really needs to look at their child's interests and abilities in deciding whether it is a good fit.  But, in neither instance will children get a lot of individual attention.  

[RoyMartin]

4 hours ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

oh, nice, we haven't been on Quantum class yet, it's probably even better than Oasis class. My kiddo was 8 on his first Allure cruise and 11 on his latest Allure cruise (Oasis class) and he loved it. Oasis class does have a Park Cafe which is his favorite (triple cheese grilled cheese sandwich and chips), but he also loves Sorrento's pepperoni pizza. I am sure Ovation will have some similar smaller venues as well in case the buffet is too overwhelming and crowded. On our first Allure cruise we never managed to get into the Windjammer for lunch because of long lines. It was much better on our summer 2022 sailing.

 

DS is not a foodie, though, and is very set in his ways (aka, very routine oriented), so he doesn't want to try anything new food wise. We developed a system for cruising which saves us all a lot of grief: he eats whatever he wants for breakfast and lunch, but I order his dinner to make sure that he gets fruits, veggies and something remotely nutritious. 

 

I am sure your son will have a blast!

I hope so. I'd like this to be the first of many cruises. Maybe when he's older, I can introduce him to backpacking and hosteling overseas but he's too young for that now. And his health challenges make it too complex for now.

As for food, we're pretty easy going. We've found that he'll balance his intake over time. If he starts the day with something sweet, he'll next ask for hamburger or kale. Sometimes we have to limit the amount of sugar or carbs because of the blood sugar challenges, but it's more about time of day or whether his insulin has kicked in yet (which he can accelerate with exercise if he wants to). Type one diabetes presents challenges, sometimes harder or easier to manage based on which way the wind is blowing and zillion other unfathomable factors. But we have a lot of experience and the technology (continuous glucose monitors, insulin pumps) make it way easier than it was for earlier generations of children and parents. Health outcomes are also far better now.

[RoyMartin]

2 hours ago, SNemeth said:

Just wanted to add our experience as we sailed Disney and Royal when my children were young (now adults).  My son is on the autism spectrum, but like they say if you have seen one person with autism, you have seen one person with autism.  In our experience the Disney programs have a lot less structure, but all the bells and whistles.  They pack a lot of technology into the clubs and that can be enthralling for a lot of kids.  Both of my kids liked the clubs on Disney, and they got one on one attention when they chose to sit down and do things like crafts etc that not a lot of kids were doing, but if they wanted to spend time playing computer games they were solo a lot.  They also had a lot of choice as to what they did at any moment.  If a child need structured activities and guidance in making choices they may not have thrived in the environment.  Royal was completely different for us as they relied on organized activities without the high tech distractions.  Unfortunately, a lot of times participation in the scheduled activity was required and there were no other options if it did not appeal to the child.  By that time, luckily we felt comfortable with our kids being able to check themselves out and if together go get a slice of pizza or find something else to do.  If they were alone they had the option to come to use (we always told them where we would be) or go back to the cabin.  I guess my point is that the programs are very different and one really needs to look at their child's interests and abilities in deciding whether it is a good fit.  But, in neither instance will children get a lot of individual attention.  

Thanks for your insights and most of all for your quip, "If you've seen one person with autism, you've seen one person with autism". I love that and will steel it freely.

[nimbex1970]

On 4/9/2019 at 9:02 AM, brillohead said:

Because "kids club" is a lot easier than saying or typing "children's program" or "Adventure Ocean".

 

And because not everyone has their panties in a bunch.

His posts are like this all over the boards.  I hit ignore.. and have peace. 

[smokeybandit]

On 4/9/2019 at 7:02 AM, brillohead said:

Because "kids club" is a lot easier than saying or typing "children's program" or "Adventure Ocean".

 

And because not everyone has their panties in a bunch.

My son refers to it as kid's club. Seems a reasonable nickname for it.

[nimbex1970]

On 2/4/2023 at 10:59 PM, RoyMartin said:

I think Royal Caribbean's website is misleading to say the least. They talk about how well trained they are and how they're equipped to deal with special needs and then on cruise day they say the ratio is 25 to 1? I know they never claimed a lower ratio but there's no way they can handle any significant special need with so few staff members for so many children. They claim to be trained to handle autism. Again, very misleading. They should be much more clear about what they're not offering.

We have a special needs son and travel in September. That's what caused me to visit this site. Fortunately, we have no need for a break from him. We assumed he would be with us every moment of the trip. Then I heard about Adventure Ocean and thought it might be great for him, a wonderful experience, if they have appropriate staffing and training. Until reading this thread, having only consulted the Royal Caribbean site, it sounded really promising. I'm glad I came here, because there's no way I'd consider leaving him there in that sort of madhouse with 25 kids to one adult. Regardless of whether that adult is supposedly trained in dealing with special needs children.

 

Let your opinion simmer for a few days.  This new poster is obviously upset and I am not going to comment on their specific issues.  I have no dog in this fight.  So there is nothing wrong with you being open minded and going to check the adventure ocean out with your kid.  Don't let one persons bad experience sway you from having your kid enjoy themselves.  

 

If you think about this logically, with the hundred thousand cruising families a year.. this would be a recurrent complaint, and it is not. 

[RoyMartin]

2 hours ago, nimbex1970 said:

 

Let your opinion simmer for a few days.  This new poster is obviously upset and I am not going to comment on their specific issues.  I have no dog in this fight.  So there is nothing wrong with you being open minded and going to check the adventure ocean out with your kid.  Don't let one persons bad experience sway you from having your kid enjoy themselves.  

 

If you think about this logically, with the hundred thousand cruising families a year.. this would be a recurrent complaint, and it is not. 

Thanks. Yes, we plan to check it out when we get there. It's a late sailing -- last of the year to Alaska. School will be in session so there may not be a lot of kids. Of course there may not be a lot of staff either. We'll see. I found the post helpful because it reminded me to temper any expectations. Since we have no need for time away from our son, it's not a big deal. If there's something that's enriching for him that he wants to partake in, great. If not, more time with him will be great too.