“Strenuous” excursions

[fizzy]

8 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

 

Regent, also does not restrict passengers in wheelchairs from boarding tenders.   

 

 

I find it interesting to learn about how different  cruise lines handle things. I don't pretend to be familiar with SOLAS rules and regulations but certainly follow what we're told to do when on board. A quick  check of RSSC terms and conditions very clearly states the policy regarding wheelchairs and tenders. It doesn't help to state incorrect policy.

[Travelcat2]

3 hours ago, fizzy said:

A quick  check of RSSC terms and conditions very clearly states the policy regarding wheelchairs and tenders. It doesn't help to state incorrect policy.

 

Kindly post the section of Terms and Conditions that states that people in wheelchairs cannot board a tender as I cannot find it and have seen people with wheelchairs on tenders.  Regent's statement regarding passengers with limited mobility is posted below.   

 

"Please note some ports of call may not be suitable for guests with limited mobility and special arrangements may need to be made at the guest’s expense. Regent Seven Seas has the right to refuse or revoke passage to anyone who, in its judgment, is in a physical, mental or emotional condition unfit for travel or whose comfort on board may be compromised due to situations beyond the care that can be provided by Regent Seven Seas Cruises. Regent Seven Seas Cruises will under appropriate circumstances, permit its guests to use special equipment as noted above."

 

My point was that all cruise lines do not have the same policies (based on our experience).  

[fizzy]

The info that I mentioned is on the rssc. pdf. format.    terms and conditions....mobility,medical matters and specific assistance.

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, fizzy said:

The info that I mentioned is on the rssc. pdf. format.    terms and conditions....mobility,medical matters and specific assistance.

 

Rather than having those of us that are interested in the issue wade through all of the various Terms and Conditions, why not copy and paste the part that is pertinent to this discussion?  Does it specifically say that wheelchair passengers cannot go on a tender?*

 

 

*If it does, it is still specific to the cruise line.  I've heard that some newer ships (not Regent apparently) enables wheelchairs to wheel right onto the tender.  This is not dissimilar to buses that have elevators that lift the wheelchair into the "handicapped" spot (where it is secured and the person does not have to get up at all).

[DeepFreeze63]

On 7/28/2019 at 9:53 AM, knl03 said:

Hi all, 

Looking at excursions for our splendid spring cruise on voyager next year. How difficult are the “strenuous” excursions? On a typical European vacation for us we’ll walk 5-7 miles a day with 100+ stairs, but I wouldn’t want to climb a mountain or anything. 

 

 

Sorry that the responses have wandered off  a reply to your question. Lots of great info in the early responses. They should be read by  cruisers new to Regent.

Remember to read the excursion updates in your cabin papers when you board. Often have expanded info and sometimes revised ratings. My experience is that "strenuous" means "strenuous"! For me a hiker, two strenuous excursion come to mind: 1) the climb up from a fjord in Greinenger (spell) Norway and 2) the long, dusty walk back (in the heat) from the Library in Petra - I don't remember how Regent rated them (I would have gone anyway).

[fizzy]

52 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Rather than having those of us that are interested in the issue wade through all of the various Terms and Conditions, why not copy and paste the part that is pertinent to this discussion?  Does it specifically say that wheelchair passengers cannot go on a tender?

I am unfamiliar with and have no interest in learning how to copy and paste. It was a very easy find under the heading that I mentioned.

[Travelcat2]

47 minutes ago, DeepFreeze63 said:

Sorry that the responses have wandered off  a reply to your question. Lots of great info in the early responses. They should be read by  cruisers new to Regent.

Remember to read the excursion updates in your cabin papers when you board. Often have expanded info and sometimes revised ratings. My experience is that "strenuous" means "strenuous"! For me a hiker, two strenuous excursion come to mind: 1) the climb up from a fjord in Greinenger (spell) Norway and 2) the long, dusty walk back (in the heat) from the Library in Petra - I don't remember how Regent rated them (I would have gone anyway).

 

Also sorry - I tend to answer off topic questions and it sends a thread in wild and strange places.  In any case, your example of walking back from the Library in Petra is a good example.  I had to walk back slowly (did not hold anyone up - we were only meeting in a restaurant for lunch and we returned early so that no one would be inconvenienced).  My DH who can typically walk miles, had knee issues half way back.  He was going to try to get a horse to help him return to the entrance but I had all of the money (lesson learned ...... always have money with you -- even on an excursion when you do not expect to spend any).  

 

Unfortunately, we can discuss this all that we want but if someone wants to do the excursion, they likely will be able to (even if they cannot keep up with the group).  There are some warnings about excursions that cannot accommodate wheelchairs so that may keep some passengers from trying to join an excursion that they may not be able to keep up with.  If a vehicle cannot accommodate a wheelchair, there isn't much you can do about that.

[SteveH2508]

The walk back from Petra is a killer in the heat (it should have about 5 walking icons and an iron lung icon!). It was 47 Celcius when we did it! 

There is a golf buggy which will take you back but it costs about $150!

 

The other excursion that sticks in our mind was on Komodo island with Azamara. This was described as strenuous (and a lot of stuff about no open wounds etc.). The island itself was easy - the only strenuous bit was for those going snorkelling on the pink beach - getting on and off the local boat was challenging.

[forgap]

Speaking of snorkeling, in Oman we were on a snorkel boat with a ladder.  One of our fellow passengers (who was on the corpulent side) had no difficulty getting into the water, but getting back onto the boat was another matter.  Gravity was against her.  For a moment I thought we would have to tow her back to shore. With a good amount of pushing and pulling assistance she managed!  I guess you don’t know your limits until you hit them! 

 

[LadyandtheTramp]

On 8/9/2019 at 1:55 PM, Travelcat2 said:

 

Rather than having those of us that are interested in the issue wade through all of the various Terms and Conditions, why not copy and paste the part that is pertinent to this discussion?  Does it specifically say that wheelchair passengers cannot go on a tender?*

 

 

*If it does, it is still specific to the cruise line.  I've heard that some newer ships (not Regent apparently) enables wheelchairs to wheel right onto the tender.  This is not dissimilar to buses that have elevators that lift the wheelchair into the "handicapped" spot (where it is secured and the person does not have to get up at all).

What you quoted in your previous posting was directly from the Regent Terms and Conditions, as detailed on the USA website.  Perhaps Fizzy is looking at Ts & Cs from a website based in a different country?

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, LadyandtheTramp said:

What you quoted in your previous posting was directly from the Regent Terms and Conditions, as detailed on the USA website.  Perhaps Fizzy is looking at Ts & Cs from a website based in a different country?

 

I guess that anything is possible.  As you noted, I did go through the Terms and Conditions and did find the section regarding physical disabilities.  I wasn't going to search further and unfortunately Fizzy does not know how to cut and paste.   I was only trying to learn if I was wrong with what I posted so I can correct it in the future.  For now, I'm not making any changes.  Thanks for your comment!

[fizzy]

4 hours ago, LadyandtheTramp said:

What you quoted in your previous posting was directly from the Regent Terms and Conditions, as detailed on the USA website.  Perhaps Fizzy is looking at Ts & Cs from a website based in a different country?

Thank you for pointing out that possibility.  I went back quickly through my history and indeed it was from the UK  page. I can;t imagine why the wording would be different but there it was.  Good catch!

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, fizzy said:

Thank you for pointing out that possibility.  I went back quickly through my history and indeed it was from the UK  page. I can;t imagine why the wording would be different but there it was.  Good catch!

 

Many, many things on the UK website are different as they have stringent consumer protection laws.  Suggest that you stick to the U.S. site (unless you are simply curious about UK pricing).  This will prevent unwarranted criticism of posters that are quoting the Regent U.S. website!!!!!!!!!!

[fizzy]

8 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Many, many things on the UK website are different as they have stringent consumer protection laws.  Suggest that you stick to the U.S. site (unless you are simply curious about UK pricing).  This will prevent unwarranted criticism of posters that are quoting the Regent U.S. website!!!!!!!!!!

Suggest that you don't advise people on what website they can look at for whatever reason. The Regent  (UK) website says what it says on the matter whether you like it or not.    (!!!!!!!!!)

[Travelcat2]

4 hours ago, fizzy said:

Suggest that you don't advise people on what website they can look at for whatever reason. The Regent  (UK) website says what it says on the matter whether you like it or not.    (!!!!!!!!!)

Not disputing what the UK website says.  What I am saying is that they have different laws that Regent must abide by. Since approximately 80% of Regent customers are from the US, quoting information from a UK or other Regent sponsored website can give incorrect information to CC members (for example, if you explained to someone on CC about flights from the UK website, it would be completely different than what it would be in the US.)

 

i am suggesting that if someone is posting information from the UK website that they let us know.  I’m glad that I didn’t spend time looking for the information that you stated was easy to find since it doesn’t exist on our website.

[DaveFr]

On 8/9/2019 at 9:14 AM, fizzy said:

The info that I mentioned is on the rssc. pdf. format.    terms and conditions....mobility,medical matters and specific assistance.

 I am not sure what rssc. pdf. format is.  I found the following on the UK Regent website: 

 

 Section 19 of the Ticket Contract states: “We strongly recommend that if You are using any make or model of wheelchair that You travel with someone who is able to assist You, both on shore and on board the Ship. Some ports of call are anchorage ports and physical conditions may preclude You from going ashore. Decisions made by the Master of the Ship in such circumstances will be binding in all instances.”

 Section 15 of the Terms and Conditions states in part: “Guests requiring the use of a wheelchair must provide their own as any wheelchairs available on the vessel are for emergency use only. For the convenience and comfort of such Guests, they are strongly encouraged to bring a collapsible wheelchair. Guests are advised that standard suites are not designed to be barrier free and wheelchair accessible. You must be physically fit to undertake the holiday. You must be self-sufficient and/or must travel with a companion able to provide any assistance needed during the holiday. Expectant mothers in or over their 24th week of pregnancy cannot travel on board the ship.
Guests may not be able to participate in certain activities or programs either on board the ship or onshore at ports of call if to do so would create a risk of harm to themselves or any other person.”

 

 I don’t see an absolute prohibition on passengers in wheelchairs using tenders.  The use of the word “may“ implies that wheelchair passengers may or may not be able to use a tender depending on conditions at the port. 

 

Dave

 

[Travelcat2]

 I also have no clue what "rssc. pdf. format" is.  So, on the U.S. website (under the Ticket Contract) copy and pasted below.  It is interesting that the U.S. website goes into more detail (like about having oxygen onboard).  The U.K. site obviously cannot warn passengers that they could be denied boarding and forfeit their money due to their passenger rights/laws (not sure what they are called) but it is fine to state that in the U.S.  As Dave and I have stated, there is no specific provision stating that wheelchairs cannot go onto tenders.  Maybe we can go back to discussing strenuous excursions now?

 

19. HEALTH CONSIDERATIONS

Due to the nature of travel by sea and the ports visited, the availability of medical care may be limited or delayed and emergency medical care and evacuation may not be available from every destination to which the Ship sails. You are required to advise Us in writing, at or prior to the time a Cruise is booked if You require the use of a wheelchair, other special equipment or a service animal. A certificate of fitness may be required for certain Guests with communicable diseases. Guests acknowledge and understand that certain international safety requirements, shipbuilding standards, and/or applicable regulations involving design, construction or operation of the Ship may restrict access to facilities or activities for persons with mobility, communication or other impairments or special needs. Electric scooters or electric wheelchairs may be used on board, subject to certain size and safety limitations. We strongly recommend that if You are using any make or model of wheelchair that You travel with someone who is able to assist You, both on shore and on board the Ship. Some ports of call are anchorage ports and physical conditions may preclude You from going ashore. Decisions made by the Master of the Ship in such circumstances will be binding in all instances. If You are a Guest with Special Needs, You must bring and be responsible for all necessary items related to Your condition. If any such condition arises after the Cruise is booked, You are required to advise Us in writing immediately. Any Guest who requires oxygen canisters or oxygen concentrators must independently make all the necessary arrangements, including procuring and moving any oxygen containers while on board. Please be advised that liquid oxygen is not permitted on board the Ship. Failure to obtain a certificate of fitness when required as described above, or Your attempt to bring on the Ship equipment not permitted on board may result in denial of embarkation and forfeiture of the applicable Cruise Fare or CruiseTour Fare and in such event We shall have no liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit of any kind. Women who have or will enter their twenty-fourth week of pregnancy at the beginning of or at any time during the Cruise or CruiseTour agree not to request a booking or present themselves for boarding and will forfeit their Cruise Fare if they board in violation of this policy.

[DaveFr]

2 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 I also have no clue what "rssc. pdf. format" is.  So, on the U.S. website (under the Ticket Contract) copy and pasted below.  It is interesting that the U.S. website goes into more detail (like about having oxygen onboard).  The U.K. site obviously cannot warn passengers that they could be denied boarding and forfeit their money due to their passenger rights/laws (not sure what they are called) but it is fine to state that in the U.S.

Jackie,

 

 Actually section 19 of the UK ticket contract is close if not identical to section 19 of the US ticket contract. My fault for forgetting to state that I was quoting from UK section 19 in part.

 

Dave

[GOARMY]

As others have posted--"strenuous" is relative; one may not realize one's limits until confronted with a real-life situation. 

 

However:  one can make a SWAG as to evaluating in advance the probabilities/possibilities of getting in over one's head whether that involves a contemplated walking or water-based excursion.  Or, deviating to a less-arduous route.  Examples: 

 

2017.  Devil's Island.  Return leg to Miami following The Amazon.  The shortest route to the top portion of the island next to the actual "Devil"--and housing the mail prison complex--involved climbing a series of rocky steps (not stairs) over an uneven surface.  The alternate route was walking a longer distance around a portion of that island to a gentler path.  Longer, but safer.  Still, BLOODY Hot!  (Sorry, given the proliferation of !!!!!! which have appeared on this Thread, will eschew repetition of that !)   My wife chose the shorter; I chose the longer.  We both made it to the top, safely.  Both of us returned using the longer route. 

 

2015.  Komodo Island.  Took the morning, rather than afternoon excursion option.  Our group started out with about 25 persons.  Fair warning was given as to head cover, light, long sleeve shirt, and two bottles of water pp.  About half of our party either ignored, or disregarded same.  And, Regent provided a water station ashore.  About 20 minutes into the walk to where the really, really big Dragons were, the guy in front of me (sans head cover or water bottles) let out an expletive,  announced he had had enough, and started walking back to the beach.  Protocol prohibited any tourist to walk by themselves.  So--a Guide had to be used as an escort.  Of course,  there were adequate Guides available for this duty, as experience showed they would be necessary for this task.  Those of us who continued noted several others "falling out", and going back.  Probably a good decision as it was again BLOODY Hot.  (Eschew !!)   Our good friends traveling with us took the afternoon tour.   Upon return, they advised one guy in their party collapsed on the trail.  He had to be stretchered-back to the shore, and emergency-evacuated to Voyager.  Fortunately, wife and I missed that drama. 

 

Komodo Island will be off the excursion grid for the next few years, I understand.  Indonesian authorities need to "rebuild" the Dragon herd, and protect it from effects of "over exposure" to tourists. 

 

Main point:  excursions I would have considering having no problem in signing up for five years' ago.  Today, not so much. 

 

Oh, BTW:  SWAG is an Army term.  Scientific Wild Ass Guess.  

 

GOARMY  (Please note:  no !) 

 

 

[Travelcat2]

3 hours ago, DaveFr said:

Jackie,

 

 Actually section 19 of the UK ticket contract is close if not identical to section 19 of the US ticket contract. My fault for forgetting to state that I was quoting from UK section 19 in part.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

I think that you know that I respect your opinion but disagree with the UK and US sections being "close to identical".  As I stated, UK passengers have protections that we do not have in the US.  I found several differences. Unfortunately, a poster stated misinformation in response to what I posted when, in fact, what I posted was correct for the US but "possibly" not for the UK.  Sad that this good thread has been derailed by misinformation.  I agree 100% that people that cannot manage a "three person" excursion should do another excursion as they impact the enjoyment of other passengers.

 

Jackie

[DaveFr]

3 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Dave,

 

I think that you know that I respect your opinion but disagree with the UK and US sections being "close to identical".  As I stated, UK passengers have protections that we do not have in the US.  I found several differences. Unfortunately, a poster stated misinformation in response to what I posted when, in fact, what I posted was correct for the US but "possibly" not for the UK.  Sad that this good thread has been derailed by misinformation.  I agree 100% that people that cannot manage a "three person" excursion should do another excursion as they impact the enjoyment of other passengers.

 

Jackie

Jackie,

 

Please reread your post above. I don’t understand the post because it does not respond correctly to my post you quoted.  After seeing that post, I compared section 19 of the US and UK ticket contracts word for word. Unless I missed a word or two, the two sections are identical. Here is the complete text of section 19 on both websites:

 

19. HEALTH CONSIDERATIONS (US WEBSITE)
“Due to the nature of travel by sea and the ports visited, the availability of medical care may be limited or delayed and emergency medical care and evacuation may not be available from every destination to which the Ship sails. You are required to advise Us in writing, at or prior to the time a Cruise is booked if You require the use of a wheelchair, other special equipment or a service animal. A certificate of fitness may be required for certain Guests with communicable diseases. Guests acknowledge and understand that certain international safety requirements, shipbuilding standards, and/or applicable regulations involving design, construction or operation of the Ship may restrict access to facilities or activities for persons with mobility, communication or other impairments or special needs. Electric scooters or electric wheelchairs may be used on board, subject to certain size and safety limitations. We strongly recommend that if You are using any make or model of wheelchair that You travel with someone who is able to assist You, both on shore and on board the Ship. Some ports of call are anchorage ports and physical conditions may preclude You from going ashore. Decisions made by the Master of the Ship in such circumstances will be binding in all instances. If You are a Guest with Special Needs, You must bring and be responsible for all necessary items related to Your condition. If any such condition arises after the Cruise is booked, You are required to advise Us in writing immediately. Any Guest who requires oxygen canisters or oxygen concentrators must independently make all the necessary arrangements, including procuring and moving any oxygen containers while on board. Please be advised that liquid oxygen is not permitted on board the Ship. Failure to obtain a certificate of fitness when required as described above, or Your attempt to bring on the Ship equipment not permitted on board may result in denial of embarkation and forfeiture of the applicable Cruise Fare or CruiseTour Fare and in such event We shall have no liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit of any kind. Women who have or will enter their twenty-fourth week of pregnancy at the beginning of or at any time during the Cruise or CruiseTour agree not to request a booking or present themselves for boarding and will forfeit their Cruise Fare if they board in violation of this policy.”

 

 

19. HEALTH CONSIDERATIONS (UK WEBSITE)
“Due to the nature of travel by sea and the ports visited, the availability of medical care may be limited or delayed and emergency medical care and evacuation may not be available from every destination to which the Ship sails. You are required to advise Us in writing, at or prior to the time a Cruise is booked if You require the use of a wheelchair, other special equipment or a service animal. A certificate of fitness may be required for certain Guests with communicable diseases. Guests acknowledge and understand that certain international safety requirements, shipbuilding standards, and/or applicable regulations involving design, construction or operation of the Ship may restrict access to facilities or activities for persons with mobility, communication or other impairments or special needs. Electric scooters or electric wheelchairs may be used on board, subject to certain size and safety limitations. We strongly recommend that if You are using any make or model of wheelchair that You travel with someone who is able to assist You, both on shore and on board the Ship. Some ports of call are anchorage ports and physical conditions may preclude You from going ashore. Decisions made by the Master of the Ship in such circumstances will be binding in all instances. If You are a Guest with Special Needs, You must bring and be responsible for all necessary items related to Your condition. If any such condition arises after the Cruise is booked, You are required to advise Us in writing immediately. Any Guest who requires oxygen canisters or oxygen concentrators must independently make all the necessary arrangements, including procuring and moving any oxygen containers while on board. Please be advised that liquid oxygen is not permitted on board the Ship. Failure to obtain a certificate of fitness when required as described above, or Your attempt to bring on the Ship equipment not permitted on board may result in denial of embarkation and forfeiture of the applicable Cruise Fare or CruiseTour Fare and in such event We shall have no liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit of any kind. Women who have or will enter their twenty-fourth week of pregnancy at the beginning of or at any time during the Cruise or CruiseTour agree not to request a booking or present themselves for boarding and will forfeit their Cruise Fare if they board in violation of this policy.”

 

Other parts of the US and UK Ticket Contract and Terms & Conditions do differ but not section 19 of the ticket contract. 

 

Dave

[Travelcat2]

Dave, oops, did not see the second half which seemed to make them different.  I'm a bit surprised that some of the rules are so harsh.  At least what I posted originally is correct. I find it interesting that the subject was covered in two places (but neither place mentioned wheelchairs are banned in tenders.)

 

In any case, thank you for keeping me in my toes.

 

Jackie

[Floridiana]

GOARMY,

 

That was dramatic on Komodo. 

 

On a different excursion, we were lucky to have three (out of 12) participants with mobility limits (no wheelchairs). At the entrance to Tikal in Guatemala, our guide explained that we had people who could not walk to the ruins. Our minibus was then permitted to drive to the highest pyramid. We all thought that was great, especially after we realized the walk would have taken 30 minutes or more. 

 

[fizzy]

On 8/8/2019 at 8:25 PM, Travelcat2 said:

 

 

Regent, also does not restrict passengers in wheelchairs from boarding tenders.   

 

 

Despite best efforts... I believe this is where  this thread went off the rails.

[Travelcat2]

GOARMY - strongly agree about Komoto Island and Devil's Island (interestingly, on either the 2021 or 2022 Amazon itinerary, they do not show Devil's Island.). In some ways, Komoto Island was easier to walk than Devil's Island due to the hills.  However, the heat on Komoto was intense (it was raining on Devil's Island when we were there so it was steamy but not overwhelming).  

 

Floridiana:  Since they were actually able to accommodate guests with mobility limitations, this should have been in the description of the excursion.  It sounds like three passengers decided to take a challenging (strenuous) excursion - even though it was not recommended by Regent.  Since they were accommodated, they likely will go similar excursions that may not be able to accommodate them.  In that case, the mobility limited passengers will be upset as well as the people on the excursion that can easily do the excursion.  The only positive to this is that if they complain to Destination Services, they can be reminded that the excursion description specifically mentioned that it was a strenuous excursion with a lot of walking (hills, etc.)

 

fizzy - You didn't read far enough.  It started in post #22 and I began responding on post #23.  Can we drop this now?