All new policy tipping / auto-gratuity?

[Pennbank]

17 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Anyone know the direct e-mail address of David Noyes who I believe is the CEO of Carnival UK which has responsibility of Cunard and P&O.

david.noyes@carnivalukgroup.com

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

 

 

There are already those who remove remove their auto grats.and don't tip.

 

There are already those who remove auto grats and tip personally.

 

There are already those who keep them on.

 

There are already those who keep them on and also tip personally.

 

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These were the options under the old system

 

The new rules means that there is more 4 new classes similiar but different to the above. 

 

Those who don't add on auto gratuities,  who tip personally 

Those who don't add on auto gratuities and don't tip at all

 

Those who add on auto gratuities 

Those who add on auto gratuities and tip personally. 

 

HOWEVER given that the opt in rate will result  in less uptake that opt out. It is well known that opt in results lower uptake than opt out. Hence all the major arguments in trade union law and political affiliation 

 

Then one could argue opt out countries will end up  paying more into the pool and hence subsidising the opt in countries. 

 

Let's have the same rules for all. Let's have a level playing field. 

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, Pennbank said:

david.noyes@carnivalukgroup.com

That address has been returned as no such user.

[North West Newbie]

14 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

That address has been returned as no such user.

 

Not surprising as he departed Carnival UK in July 2018. See  https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/leadership-change-carnival-uk/

[Pennbank]

34 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

That address has been returned as no such user.

see

https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/cunard/

 

Simon Palethorpe
Senior Vice President Cunard
Carnival House
100 Harbour Parade
Southampton SO15 1ST
simon.palethorpe@carnivalukgroup.com

Secondary Contact
Josh Weinstein
President, Carnival UK
Carnival House
100 Harbour Parade
Southampton SO15 1ST
Josh.Weinstein@carnivalukgroup.com

Edited September 26, 2019 by Pennbank

[Windsurfboy]

The Simon Palethorpe email address doesn't work.

[Aspidestra99]

2 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 

 

There are already those who remove remove their auto grats.and don't tip.

 

There are already those who remove auto grats and tip personally.

 

There are already those who keep them on.

 

There are already those who keep them on and also tip personally.

 

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

 

 

 

 

More like an enforced 'vive la difference'.

 

There will be many UK customers who won't be aware of this duality regarding gratuities.

 

A Brit who wants to opt out of the charge will still have to make a request to the purser, while another guest gets the opt out by default. No uncomfortable conversation at the desk for these individuals....

 

It also may result in more direct payments to staff, while those who pay the autogratuity feel they are viewed as cheap skates when the envelopes start to appear.

 

I don't object to guests having the  choice of how and where to reward service (or not to reward it at all). 

 

For it to be a fair choice it should be made against a common baseline applicable to all guests.

 

We enjoyed Grills but seriously, if I can persuade my partner I'll conside throwing Cunard into touch and going elsewhere.

 

I can't tolerate unfairness.  So this is now extremely irritating......

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Aspidestra99

[Windsurfboy]

17 minutes ago, Aspidestra99 said:

More like an enforced 'vive la difference'.

 

There will be many UK customers who won't be aware of this duality regarding gratuities.

 

A Brit who wants to opt out of the charge will still have to make a request to the purser, while another guest gets the opt out by default. No uncomfortable conversation at the desk for these individuals....

 

It also may result in more direct payments to staff, while those who pay the autogratuity feel they are viewed as cheap skates when the envelopes start to appear.

 

I don't object to guests having the  choice of how and where to reward service (or not to reward it at all). 

 

For it to be a fair choice it should be made against a common baseline applicable to all guests.

 

We enjoyed Grills but seriously, if I can persuade my partner I'll conside throwing Cunard into touch and going elsewhere.

 

I can't tolerate unfairness.  So this is now extremely irritating......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HERE HERE, British and others are being put at disadvantage especial given the wording in German website , Tips are not expected. Not many will opt in.

[Boaty McBoatface1]

I wonder if this is because Aida (also under the Carnival Corp group) caters specifically to the German market and includes tips in the fare. I’d imagine or at least expect the German fares and other ‘opt in’ countries to be higher than those of us in ‘opt out’ countries.

I agree though this seems a really poor decision as tips have, and always will be, a contentious issue amongst different cruise nations and this I fear will only fan the flames and polarise both sides even more. Surely you either opt everyone in or everyone out but don’t segregate over nationality as once the words out that makes for uncomfortable cruising !  

[Victoria2]

12 hours ago, Aspidestra99 said:

More like an enforced 'vive la difference'.

 

There will be many UK customers who won't be aware of this duality regarding gratuities.

 

A Brit who wants to opt out of the charge will still have to make a request to the purser, while another guest gets the opt out by default. No uncomfortable conversation at the desk for these individuals....

 

It also may result in more direct payments to staff, while those who pay the autogratuity feel they are viewed as cheap skates when the envelopes start to appear.

 

I don't object to guests having the  choice of how and where to reward service (or not to reward it at all). 

 

For it to be a fair choice it should be made against a common baseline applicable to all guests.

 

We enjoyed Grills but seriously, if I can persuade my partner I'll conside throwing Cunard into touch and going elsewhere.

 

I can't tolerate unfairness.  So this is now extremely irritating......

 

 

 

 

 

Enforced or not, the change seems to be there for some nations,  but the end result is still the same.

 

The envelopes have been appearing for years. Some are given with a flourish eg look at my largesse,  whilst the  more discreet amongst us give them within the menu or with a handshake. It's up to other individuals whether they are upset or intimidated by this and nothing will change here.

 

I have long held the view the world has different approaches to fairness and as long as I am happy to go along with an activity which suits us, I will ignore differences other people might encounter. In the long term, if Cunard is a product which suits, I can't see why having to go down to reception to remove auto grats as opposed to going down to reception to add them is reason enough to jump ship.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Victoria2

[Aspidestra99]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

Enforced or not, the change seems to be there for some nations,  but the end result is still the same.

 

The envelopes have been appearing for years. Some are given with a flourish eg look at my largesse,  whilst the  more discreet amongst us give them within the menu or with a handshake. It's up to other individuals whether they are upset or intimidated by this and nothing will change here.

 

I have long held the view the world has different approaches to fairness and as long as I am happy to go along with an activity which suits us, I will ignore differences other people might encounter. In the long term, if Cunard is a product which suits, I can't see why having to go down to reception to remove auto grats as opposed to going down to reception to add them is reason enough to jump ship.

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, it isn't just about any resulting inconvenience, it's the fact this unfairness is purely due to the change to a process which was once universal and is now discriminatory.

 

It is not what I expect in terms of customer care, which is an important factor in the decision as to who I  choose to buy any service from. 

 

Unless Cunard are taking their clientele for fools, they need to have a rethink and pretty quickly.

 

 

 

[Victoria2]

15 minutes ago, Aspidestra99 said:

Personally, it isn't just about any resulting inconvenience, it's the fact this unfairness is purely due to the change to a process which was once universal and is now discriminatory.

 

It is not what I expect in terms of customer care, which is an important factor in the decision as to who I  choose to buy any service from. 

 

Unless Cunard are taking their clientele for fools, they need to have a rethink and pretty quickly.

 

 

 

Was it universal? That would imply all people being treated in the same all the time. I keep hearing of deals whereby gratuities were included and yet we have never been that lucky. Some have had them as a perk  as part of their booking, many haven't which suggests to me, auto grats on the account have never been universal.

 

Customer care to me is face to face driven. Only if I have to escalate a problem am I bothered what Carnival House might say. I agree it does seem strange policy has changed in some countries but not in others but  I am not about to do the proverbial cut off my nose to spite my face because of some change in policy  elsewhere when if needs be, like Pennbank, I can sort it out to my satisfaction.

 

 

[Aspidestra99]

16 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Was it universal? That would imply all people being treated in the same all the time. I keep hearing of deals whereby gratuities were included and yet we have never been that lucky. Some have had them as a perk  as part of their booking, many haven't which suggests to me, auto grats on the account have never been universal.

 

Customer care to me is face to face driven. Only if I have to escalate a problem am I bothered what Carnival House might say. I agree it does seem strange policy has changed in some countries but not in others but  I am not about to do the proverbial cut off my nose to spite my face because of some change in policy  elsewhere when if needs be, like Pennbank, I can sort it out to my satisfaction.

 

 

The starting point is that the auto gratuity was previously a universal charge.

 

If that were not the case there would be no vehicle for the temporary marketing inducements you describe.

 

That these inducements are not universally applied is a given and although those who can't benefit may not like it, it is Cunard or the TA exercising their right to target specific markets/drum up sales.

 

However this change is not a temporary marketing inducement. It is a permanent change (not having seen anything to contradict this) to a previously universal policy which now impacts  a particular segment of the market and not in a positive manner.

 

I wouldn't presume to express a view on the actions an individual might choose to  take in response to this situation. I know what my views are and will act as I see fit.  

 

 

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

I think this is annoying,  silly and ultimately unproductive and unfair policy treating different nationalities differently on a permanent basis. One off promotions are different. 

 

I  will not be cancelling any cruises, not that important,  but as someone who has always believed in everyone paying auto gratuities,  I can happily live with all the individual choices that people make. They are individual choices. 

 

But when Cunard effectively encourages one nationally not to participate,  then my response us simple, I'm going to not participate and I expect the form you will fill in to opt out will have a section for reason why (don't know never done it on any cruise line before ) I will put, Equality with German T&Cs.

[Victoria2]

38 minutes ago, Aspidestra99 said:

The starting point is that the auto gratuity was previously a universal charge.

 

If that were not the case there would be no vehicle for the temporary marketing inducements you describe.

 

That these inducements are not universally applied is a given and although those who can't benefit may not like it, it is Cunard or the TA exercising their right to target specific markets/drum up sales.

 

However this change is not a temporary marketing inducement. It is a permanent change (not having seen anything to contradict this) to a previously universal policy which now impacts  a particular segment of the market and not in a positive manner.

 

I wouldn't presume to express a view on the actions an individual might choose to  take in response to this situation. I know what my views are and will act as I see fit.  

 

 

 

 

The charge may have been Cunard's policy for all nations and I'm not disputing that has changed,  but the term universal to me takes the stance of all passengers having the charge on their account all the time, every time and without exception. They don't and haven't for many many years thanks to deals  given based on Cunard auto gratuity policy.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[Aspidestra99]

7 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

I think this is annoying,  silly and ultimately unproductive and unfair policy treating different nationalities differently on a permanent basis. One off promotions are different. 

 

I  will not be cancelling any cruises, not that important,  but as someone who has always believed in everyone paying auto gratuities,  I can happily live with all the individual choices that people make. They are individual choices. 

 

But when Cunard effectively encourages one nationally not to participate,  then my response us simple, I'm going to not participate and I expect the form you will fill in to opt out will have a section for reason why (don't know never done it on any cruise line before ) I will put, Equality with German T&Cs.

I won't be cancelling either of the two cruises we've currently booked either.

However, I will be giving the purser some earache if this hasn't changed before our next cruise. 

 

Not sure if there will be a number 3 with Cunard but that choice, (as you can probably tell  I am more than a bit miffed by all this at present 😊), will be influenced by other factors too.

 

[North West Newbie]

It seems to me that the human trait of envy is now playing out amongst some members of this board.

[sfred]

On 9/26/2019 at 8:14 AM, Underwatr said:

Americans are charged gratuities, it's just that in many booking promotions it's charged and refunded.

 

Aren't many Australian fares gratuity-included? 

In my experience, it is relatively rare for Australia fares to include gratuities.  There is the occasional sale promotion that is gratuity inclusive but only on selected voyages that Cunard is particularly flogging.  Even then Cunard IT can interfere.  I took two short 3 and 4 day QE trips in Australia earlier this year, both booked at the same time on a gratuity inclusive promotion deal.  Upon disembarkation on the 3 night voyage the gratuities were appropriately credited back (ie, charged to my account and then paid back by Cunard), but on the other 4 night they were charged as usual with no corresponding Cunard credit.  I asked at the pursers office before getting off, but they had no record of my promotional fare and had no ability to apply a credit other than removing the gratuity entirely.  I did not want to disadvantage our cabin steward, who was very good, so I left the gratuities in place.

 

I concur with the general sentiment in this thread that it is unfair to have one policy for some geographies and a different policy for others.

[Windsurfboy]

3 hours ago, North West Newbie said:

It seems to me that the human trait of envy is now playing out amongst some members of this board.

 

I don't think envy is the right word, deep annoyance about different treatment of one nationality compared to others is a better description. 

 

It's not envy! As we can all not pay the auto gratuities if we don't want to, which puts us all in the end on an equal footing. So there's nothing to be envious about, 10 minutes at the pursuer's office will sort it out .

 

There may be a touch of patriotism , nothing to be ashamed of

 

 

[North West Newbie]

7 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

I don't think envy is the right word, deep annoyance about different treatment of one nationality compared to others is a better description. 

 

It's not envy! As we can all not pay the auto gratuities if we don't want to, which puts us all in the end on an equal footing. So there's nothing to be envious about, 10 minutes at the pursuer's office will sort it out .

 

There may be a touch of patriotism , nothing to be ashamed of

 

 

 

Tipping - if, how, when and to whom is, and always will be, an individual’s absolute right to decide. However, allowing one’s judgment to be distorted in circumstances such as this is taking an already contentious matter to another level which in my opinion affords no credit whatsoever.

[majortom10]

I have contacted Josh Weinstein, President at Carnival UK by e-mail with reference to this subject and have had a reply from Jennifer Dalton, Guest Relations who has been asked to investigate it and she will be in touch when she has completed this. I will report back with her response as soon as received.

[Aspidestra99]

24 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

I have contacted Josh Weinstein, President at Carnival UK by e-mail with reference to this subject and have had a reply from Jennifer Dalton, Guest Relations who has been asked to investigate it and she will be in touch when she has completed this. I will report back with her response as soon as received.

Thankyou majortom

[Underwatr]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

It's not envy! As we can all not pay the auto gratuities if we don't want to, which puts us all in the end on an equal footing.

You're assuming a fares won't be adjusted up over the long term in the gratuity-optional markets. As they say, There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

[tacticalbanjo]

If they've made this change to compete with Aida then they'll also be bearing Aida prices in mind when setting fares for German customers. I don't know where Aida fares sit compared to Cunard fares in Germany but most likely there will be a limit as to how far they can increase prices - a limit which might not cover the lost auto-grats.

[Aspidestra99]

4 hours ago, North West Newbie said:

It seems to me that the human trait of envy is now playing out amongst some members of this board.

Envy, really? If Cunard had decided to remove autogratuities from the UK fares and left them in place for the other markets, I would have posted exactly the same comments.