Passports

[cruiseDH22]

I am concerned about passport security with the RFID chip

 

Sometime ago I read that you make your passport or credit card secure by making an aluminum foil pocket for it.

 

I have done this with our passports. A heavy aluminum foil pocket, or sleeve, for the passport.

 

We just cruised and I noticed one of the security people either getting on the ship or in the tsa check in-line was extremely amused by my envelope.

 

Am I making a fool out of myself by using this, or is this a legitimate security effort to protect my passport from being electronically read?

[ducklite]

They probably thought it went along with your tin foil hat.  

 

Just kidding. 

 

I were an official who needed to review passports, if one was handed to me wrapped in a DIY foil sleeve I'd think it was very odd and possibly someone trying to distract me from an actual situation.

 

There are passport holders that are very inexpensive that contain security features to secure them.  I use one, it looks like a normal passport holder/wallet.  I keep my GE card, my Priority Pass card, and my boarding pass inside when I'm traveling and find it a good way to keep everything I'll need in transit in one place and secure.  People who look at passports don't even give it a second glance.  You might want ot make that small investment.

Edited December 25, 2019 by ducklite

[LHT28]

I do not care if they think I am weird or not  I use these sleeves for my passport & CC

https://www.idstronghold.com/collections/secure-sleeves

In the spring DH CC was compromised someplace  

they tried to use it in NY state but we were home

He does not use the sleeve 

This card has the tap n go chip on it  & he never used the card while we were away  so must have been skimmed someplace

[flyingron]

The RFID range is very close (just as with credit cards).   Much hype to sell RFID-proof wallets (in fact most people don't know the difference between the "chip" on the credit card which is visible and the RFID which is not, but indicated only by something printed on the card).   I've had credit cards compromised and they were not RFID cards.    

The US State Department pretty much says you have to have the passport OPEN to be scanned even with the RFID.   Further, there's no information on the RFID that's not on the photo page of the passport anyhow.

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by flyingron

[ducklite]

1 minute ago, flyingron said:

The RFID range is very close (just as with credit cards).   Much hype to sell RFID-proof wallets (in fact most people don't know the difference between the "chip" on the credit card which is visible and the RFID which is not, but indicated only by something printed on the card).

The US State Department pretty much says you have to have the passport OPEN to be scanned even with the RFID.   Further, there's no information on the RFID that's not on the photo page of the passport anyhow.

 

 

There is usually 4-8 feet between where the immigration of TSA officer sits and where you have to wait in line and not approach until beckoned.  I wait until I'm invited up and then pull my passport out of the case to present it.  That is much to far away from someone trying to use a scanner to skim the information.  That said, I'm really not that worried about it.  

[sparks1093]

The only thing that is on the RFID chip (as I understand it) is a data pointer to a spot in the computer database where your info is located. Also as I understand it just having the passport in your pocket is sufficient to keep this information from being read. (We have Enhanced Drivers Licenses and I just keep mine in my wallet while DW keeps her in the security sleeve that came with it, the technology is the same as with the passport.) Do what you feel comfortable doing.

[LHT28]

people can buy the readers  online

https://www.atlasrfidstore.com/sls-rfid-smartlink-mobile-rfid-reader/

I am sure the crooks know how to get your info 😉

[flyingron]

Nope, all the data is there.   Again, the passport cover itself is RFID shielded.  The RFID chip should only be readable when you unfold the book.    Further, it's not like reading the stripe on a credit card.    There's an interaction between the reader and the chip that is not likely to be casually spoofed.

The reader above reads a different kind of RFID data than the passport.   The ones above are commonly used for things like runners in marathons, your proximity door cards, etc...

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by flyingron

[thinfool]

2 hours ago, flyingron said:

   Again, the passport cover itself is RFID shielded. 

 

This is true. Covers with RFID shielding are redundant and primarily purposed to separate you from your $$ by buying one.  

Amazing as it may seem, the govt actually anticipated the need for shielding when they designed our passports (US).

[calliopecruiser]

Well, frankly I'd laugh too if it was wrapped in tin foil......not because your security concerns are invalid, but because that looks pretty silly.  For $5 you can get a useful, reusable, and ordinary looking cover. 

 

FWIW, I recommend you also get sleeves for any credit cards you have with RFID technology.......inexpensive, and better than wrapping them in tin foil.  (Also important for your Nexus card, if the original sleeve is damaged.)

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by calliopecruiser

[cruiseDH22]

Yeah  a few years ago someone took the task of testing these RFID sleeves for credit cards and some didnt pass the test   So I got apprehensive     But I shouldnt worry too much   and yes a packet of sleeves isnt a big expense.

 

THANKS ALL FOR THE REPLIES.

[wowzz]

Perhaps I'm being naive, but what information can be "skimmed" from your passport, that is of any use to the "skimmer" ?  

[MrMezentsev]

I think I'd rather buy one with the security features , then make one myself, I feel like it would be much safer and I don't think they are to expensive , get one off Amazon.

[sparks1093]

15 hours ago, flyingron said:

Nope, all the data is there.   Again, the passport cover itself is RFID shielded.  The RFID chip should only be readable when you unfold the book.    Further, it's not like reading the stripe on a credit card.    There's an interaction between the reader and the chip that is not likely to be casually spoofed.

The reader above reads a different kind of RFID data than the passport.   The ones above are commonly used for things like runners in marathons, your proximity door cards, etc...

 

I just looked and I stand corrected, the passport RFID chip contains the same information that is on the information page in the passport. It's the chip in my EDL that only contains a reference number to a database. 

[calliopecruiser]

6 hours ago, wowzz said:

Perhaps I'm being naive, but what information can be "skimmed" from your passport, that is of any use to the "skimmer" ?  

All sorts of identification information on you and your passport -- everything someone would need for identity theft.  Yes, it's encrypted, but encryption is just a challenge that will one day be breached, so for less than $10, I'll keep my passport and credit cards protected from skimmers. 

 

Skimmers will also be updated as the security features increase, but I'll try to stay protected since (at least now) the cost is low and using them is easy.

 

[flyingron]

Despite what the scammers selling RFID wallets will have you believe, your card is almost always going to be compromised at a point of use rather than by some RFID "skimming" threat.   Similarly, you hand over the passport to underpaid and unvetted airline, hotel, and other travel people (let alone foreign government agents without authority).    You probably typed the information into the cruise website, and if some of the lines I'm familiar with areany indication, the sites are so poorly implemented that your data has already been compromised.

 

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

All sorts of identification information on you and your passport -- everything someone would need for identity theft.  Yes, it's encrypted, but encryption is just a challenge that will one day be breached, so for less than $10, I'll keep my passport and credit cards protected from skimmers. 

 

Skimmers will also be updated as the security features increase, but I'll try to stay protected since (at least now) the cost is low and using them is easy.

 

Well, all the information they will get is my full name and date of birth (which is a matter of public record) How is that useful?

[calliopecruiser]

3 minutes ago, flyingron said:

your card is almost always going to be compromised at a point of use rather than by some RFID "skimming" threat. 

True.......and that's why I don't understand why most of the US hasn't adopted the mPOS credit card readers so that your credit card doesn't leave your possession.  (Thinking back to the days when our cards were whisked away by a waiter to an unseen location, and only returned later with the cheque.)

[sparks1093]

13 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

All sorts of identification information on you and your passport -- everything someone would need for identity theft.  Yes, it's encrypted, but encryption is just a challenge that will one day be breached, so for less than $10, I'll keep my passport and credit cards protected from skimmers. 

 

Skimmers will also be updated as the security features increase, but I'll try to stay protected since (at least now) the cost is low and using them is easy.

 

They get the info on your information page- Name, date of birth, place of birth, passport number, date of issue and date of expiration. Hardly a wealth of information and it doesn't seem sufficient to steal someone's identity.  

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, calliopecruiser said:

True.......and that's why I don't understand why most of the US hasn't adopted the mPOS credit card readers so that your credit card doesn't leave your possession.  (Thinking back to the days when our cards were whisked away by a waiter to an unseen location, and only returned later with the cheque.)

I'm not worried about my card info since any unauthorized activity would be noticed by me right away and reported to my issuer.

[calliopecruiser]

Just now, wowzz said:

Well, all the information they will get is my full name and date of birth (which is a matter of public record) How is that useful?

From your passport.......Doesn't it also include your place of birth, and your passport number and issuance data?

[calliopecruiser]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

Hardly a wealth of information and it doesn't seem sufficient to steal someone's identity.

Yeah, sadly, it is -- passport information can easily get other information, which gets other information, etc, etc......

 

 

[calliopecruiser]

3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I'm not worried about my card info since any unauthorized activity would be noticed by me right away and reported to my issuer.

Oh, so you also don't mind insurance fraud because it costs everybody extra, and not just you.  I get it.  Since the financial companies are paying for it, you don't care.  

 

It is so frustrating that you're either being selfish or blissfully uninformed.....I'm not sure which.

 

 

[wowzz]

11 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

From your passport.......Doesn't it also include your place of birth, and your passport number and issuance data?

Place of birth, yes, but publicly available. Expiry date, yes. Passport number,  obviously, but I have to input that on various data bases (car hire, hotel booking, air travel, villa rental etc) which are easily hackable. 

If someone really wants to steal my identity, there are a lot easier ways of doing so than skimming my passport.

[wowzz]

18 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I'm not worried about my card info since any unauthorized activity would be noticed by me right away and reported to my issuer.

Normally it's the other way round. Abnormal expenditure is highlighted by the credit card company, which will block my card until I release it.