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[eroller]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

 

We should not forget our crew friends since more then 10,000 of them are still stuck on ships (mostly off the USA and in Manila Bay) more than 4 months after the shut down.  While we are all dreaming about getting back to cruising the cruise lines are still trying to figure out how to disembark crew members that have not been accepted at any port (including at their home countries).  What a mess.

 

Hank

 

 

Regardless of the CDC or WHO stance, until there is widespread International commercial air resumption there simply won't be cruises returning as we once knew them.  There may be some one-offs and a few ships returning here and there to a single national audience and itinerary, but that will be the extent of it.  I do feel bad for the crew members who have been stuck on ships.  We are at the tail end of crew reparations and most remaining onboard now are due to their own home countries restricting their entry which is sad.  Getting new crews to all these ships (once international travel reopens) will be be a huge challenge and it won't happen overnight.  It's another reason we keep hearing about at staggered approach to cruising reopening.  Interestingly enough while reparating crew stuck at sea for months, cruise lines have rotated on new crew mainly to minimally staff ships for warm or cold layup.  

[Hlitner]

24 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

Regardless of the CDC or WHO stance, until there is widespread International commercial air resumption there simply won't be cruises returning as we once knew them.  There may be some one-offs and a few ships returning here and there to a single national audience and itinerary, but that will be the extent of it.  I do feel bad for the crew members who have been stuck on ships.  We are at the tail end of crew reparations and most remaining onboard now are due to their own home countries restricting their entry which is sad.  Getting new crews to all these ships (once international travel reopens) will be be a huge challenge and it won't happen overnight.  It's another reason we keep hearing about at staggered approach to cruising reopening.  Interestingly enough while reparating crew stuck at sea for months, cruise lines have rotated on new crew mainly to minimally staff ships for warm or cold layup.  

I just looked at AIS and only see 6 cruise ships remaining in Manila Bay (there were about 25 ships a couple of weeks ago).  So I assume many of the ships that were previously waiting to off load crew are now headed to some other anchorage for warm or cold layup.   A few ships (including the Diamond Princess) are now in Malaysian waters where I suspect they are dropping off some crew.  It is hard to fathom (a good nautical word) the cost of moving these ships all over the world to drop off crew, but the cruise lines had few alternatives.

 

Hank

[sidari]

MSC Grandiosa is currently underway from Civitavecchia to Genoa.

[razer]

I will  seriously reconsider any future cruises with MSC due to their feeble refund policy. I have waited since March for a small deposit refund and yet still get the runaround. My advise is to start a credit card dispute and money will be redeposited to you by CC company while they try and retrieve the funds. MSC is pathetic in it's response and lack of goodwill. Hospitality industry is suffering greatly yet honor their commitments in many cases. MSC sorry ! Your done!😡

[eroller]

19 minutes ago, razer said:

I will  seriously reconsider any future cruises with MSC due to their feeble refund policy. I have waited since March for a small deposit refund and yet still get the runaround. My advise is to start a credit card dispute and money will be redeposited to you by CC company while they try and retrieve the funds. MSC is pathetic in it's response and lack of goodwill. Hospitality industry is suffering greatly yet honor their commitments in many cases. MSC sorry ! Your done!😡

 

 

I wish I could say other cruise lines were better with refunds but most are not.  I waited exactly 116 days for a March refund request from Cunard (part of Carnival Corp).  I finally got it earlier this month.  Absolutely zero communication from them.  Very frustrating.  I think Royal Caribbean is probably the best.  They have announced earlier this month that they only have 100 reservations waiting on refunds more than 30 days.  Good for them!    

 

Especially frustrating with MSC is that they recently canceled my cruise for September.  I can't even request a refund until August 30!  ***** is up with that policy?  Then it's probably another 90+ days to process it.  I've never heard of being required to wait over a month from a canceled booking to even request a refund.  Absurd.  Just another tactic to hold on to your $$ for as long as possible.  

 

Honestly maybe some companies don't deserve to be in business.  

[DCGuy64]

17 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I do think it effective prevents any cruises (of ships with more than 250 persons) from a US Port.  Here is the text of the current"order"

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced today the extension of a No Sail Order for cruise ships through September 30, 2020. This order continues to suspend passenger operations on cruise ships with the capacity to carry at least 250 passengers in waters subject to U.S. jurisdiction.

 

I guess one could argue (in Federal Court) whether this "order" is legally binding.  But, for practical purposes it is binding because no US port would dare disobey this order and the USCG would likely make sure it was enforced.  Cruise lines can certainly operate in other countries (subject to their own rules).

 

The question is whether the CDC will lift or amend its order by the end of September.  The CDC recently announced that they are seeking comments from both the public and interested organizations on the cruise issue.  Having worked in government (for over 30 years) this call for public comments is quite common.  Many governmental organizations will often follow-up such an order with public hearings although the CDC has not mentioned this subject.  It is also common for the government to publish some or all of the public comments in the Federal Register and also publish government responses.  If the CDC decides to follow this practice one could expect further delays during the process.

 

Hank

 

Hank

 

 

 

 

A few comments are in order here:

 

1. The US market does not represent the sum total of all cruising. Cruises occur in Asia, the Middle East, the South Pacific, Europe, South America, and elsewhere. Given that the CDC only has authority over the US, a "No Sail Order" doesn't impact the entire cruising industry, only a part of it (albeit an important one, I'm not discounting that).

2. At some point, some cruise line is going to have to be first, in terms of resuming cruises. Unless the entire cruise industry folds (unlikely since we've had many disasters in the past and cruising has always recovered), then there's going to be a "first time" in terms of large cruise ships.

3. I'm glad you quoted from the CDC's guidelines. Here's another one:

This Order is in effect until one of the following occurs:

• The expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency,
• The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations, or
• September 30, 2020.

Look specifically at bullet point #2. This means that the CDC could rescind or modify the order, which means that if the public health emergency is brought under control, this order could essentially be canceled. I would hope (this is just my personal opinion, obviously) that if COVID-19 infection rates decrease or if the majority of the US gets things under control, the CDC could rescind this order. There are vaccine trials underway, which I consider a hopeful sign.

At the risk of stating the obvious, NO ONE KNOWS when things will improve. NO ONE. Cruising could resume this year or next year or never. Anyone who claims to know the future is mistaken, me included. All we can do is guess based on what we know at the moment, while admitting that a change in circumstance could have a huge effect on the industry.

I think it's an encouraging sign that cruises in Europe and Asia are resuming. I would hope that people who post on this site would be optimistic, since the whole point of Cruise Critic is to share our love of cruising.

 

[cruiser man 60]

2 hours ago, sidari said:

MSC Grandiosa is currently underway from Civitavecchia to Genoa.

Yes , speculation that this will be the ship announced to do western Mediterranean if they can restart 16/08 , although mainland Spain will be off itinerary .

[Hlitner]

43 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

A few comments are in order here:

 

1. The US market does not represent the sum total of all cruising. Cruises occur in Asia, the Middle East, the South Pacific, Europe, South America, and elsewhere. Given that the CDC only has authority over the US, a "No Sail Order" doesn't impact the entire cruising industry, only a part of it (albeit an important one, I'm not discounting that).

2. At some point, some cruise line is going to have to be first, in terms of resuming cruises. Unless the entire cruise industry folds (unlikely since we've had many disasters in the past and cruising has always recovered), then there's going to be a "first time" in terms of large cruise ships.

3. I'm glad you quoted from the CDC's guidelines. Here's another one:

This Order is in effect until one of the following occurs:

• The expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency,
• The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations, or
• September 30, 2020.

Look specifically at bullet point #2. This means that the CDC could rescind or modify the order, which means that if the public health emergency is brought under control, this order could essentially be canceled. I would hope (this is just my personal opinion, obviously) that if COVID-19 infection rates decrease or if the majority of the US gets things under control, the CDC could rescind this order. There are vaccine trials underway, which I consider a hopeful sign.

At the risk of stating the obvious, NO ONE KNOWS when things will improve. NO ONE. Cruising could resume this year or next year or never. Anyone who claims to know the future is mistaken, me included. All we can do is guess based on what we know at the moment, while admitting that a change in circumstance could have a huge effect on the industry.

I think it's an encouraging sign that cruises in Europe and Asia are resuming. I would hope that people who post on this site would be optimistic, since the whole point of Cruise Critic is to share our love of cruising.

 

We have had 3 cruises cancelled since April is Asia and Europe so we are well aware that cruising is not just about the USA.  In fact,  most of our cruises (over 100 days scheduled in 2020) our far from the USA.  But you are ignoring the reality that no European or Asian port (nor Australia and NZ) are accepting cruise ships other then a tiny handful of regional cruises from their own country.  And to the best of my knowledge no port has announced when they plan to again accept ships on international itineraries.  It is not just about cruising.  As Americans there are few places we can go in the world on land much less on ships.  Otherwise we would be flying to Europe in late August.  As to Asia, I cannot help but wonder if places like Japan and Singapore will except any cruise ship prior to a safe/effective vaccine and proof that every soul aboard has been vaccinated.  We do have another Asian cruise booked in April 2021, but I am not "optimistic" that Japan will allow that cruise to happen.

 

As to our CDC, one can get a good idea of their thought process by simply reading the 28 questions that the CDC is using for their public comment period.  

https://www.federalregister.gov/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51470603documents/2020/07/21/2020-15812/request-for-information-related-to-cruise-ship-planning-and-infrastructure-resumption-of-passenger

 

These questions deal with the tough issues and cannot be satisfied by simply agreeing to modify a buffet or slightly reduce the number of passengers.

 

 

Hank

[shipgeeks]

2 hours ago, razer said:

I will  seriously reconsider any future cruises with MSC due to their feeble refund policy. I have waited since March for a small deposit refund and yet still get the runaround. My advise is to start a credit card dispute and money will be redeposited to you by CC company while they try and retrieve the funds. MSC is pathetic in it's response and lack of goodwill. Hospitality industry is suffering greatly yet honor their commitments in many cases. MSC sorry ! Your done!😡

Refunds seem to be slow/non-existent on the other cruise lines as well.  We've had no word/no refund from our hotels and shuttle services, so cruise lines are not the only ones lagging.

Our TA told us that they have been processing 23 cancellations for every one booking, and it's a tedious process.  I believe it will just take time.

[DCGuy64]

50 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We have had 3 cruises cancelled since April is Asia and Europe so we are well aware that cruising is not just about the USA.  In fact,  most of our cruises (over 100 days scheduled in 2020) our far from the USA.  But you are ignoring the reality that no European or Asian port (nor Australia and NZ) are accepting cruise ships other then a tiny handful of regional cruises from their own country.  And to the best of my knowledge no port has announced when they plan to again accept ships on international itineraries.  It is not just about cruising.  As Americans there are few places we can go in the world on land much less on ships.  Otherwise we would be flying to Europe in late August.  As to Asia, I cannot help but wonder if places like Japan and Singapore will except any cruise ship prior to a safe/effective vaccine and proof that every soul aboard has been vaccinated.  We do have another Asian cruise booked in April 2021, but I am not "optimistic" that Japan will allow that cruise to happen.

 

As to our CDC, one can get a good idea of their thought process by simply reading the 28 questions that the CDC is using for their public comment period.  

https://www.federalregister.gov/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51470603documents/2020/07/21/2020-15812/request-for-information-related-to-cruise-ship-planning-and-infrastructure-resumption-of-passenger

 

These questions deal with the tough issues and cannot be satisfied by simply agreeing to modify a buffet or slightly reduce the number of passengers.

 

 

Hank

I disagree with you on your conclusions but appreciate your comments, thanks. Have a good day!