Guarantee Cabin/Upgrades

[susiesan]

Everything you said Steve is exactly how I feel and how I was handled by O. According to some posters, O does upgrade. So Jan, O does sell guarantees and O does give upgrades. I know for a fact that when I booked my guarantee all of the cat G cabins were available. When I got a cabin assignment 2 days after booking I didn't like where they put me and had my TA call and move us to a different cat G cabin. O told my TA that all of the cat G cabins were open in June 2005 for June 26, 2006.

 

As to why to put the guarantee people in a better or empty cabin-how about positve PR? On my recent Xpedition cruise I booked the lowest category available. When I got the tickets I had been upgraded 2 categories without my asking. Why? because Celebrity wanted me to come home and say good things about their cruise, how well they take care of their passengers (which I have been doing).

 

If my sailing is full, then of course I won't get a different cabin. But if it is not, why not make someone very happy who will go home and rave about their cruise? It doesn't cost O anything for this form of free word-of-mouth advertising, the best there is. I'll be eating the same amount of food, no matter where I sleep.

[lcand1923]

BRUINSTEVE explained what "Gurantees" mean to cruisers who travel regularly on different lines. Oceania does not offer this type of booking; i.e., no assigned cabin, discount price, possibility of an upgrade IF you take this category of cabin.

 

DRWONG has given a perfect solution to this issue. I hope Oceania will take his suggestion and stop offering "Guarantees" and start offering "Waitlisted Cabins".

 

This would eliminate the confusion and help to cement the idea that Oceania is a somewhat different cruise line being marketed to a somewhat different cruiser.

[Jancruz]

This is now posted on their website under FAQ:

Guarantee Reservations

 

 

A "Reservations Guarantee" secured by your professional Travel Agent is simply a measure which enables guests to reserve a specific category of accommodation or fare aboard the cruise of their choice when no specific stateroom assignments are available at the time the reservation is made. Please note that a "Reservations Guarantee" does not constitute an additional discount nor should it be construed that an upgrade will be provided.

 

At Oceania Cruises, a “Guarantee” reservation ensures the following:

 

The fare for the stateroom category at the time the “Guarantee” was taken.

Accommodations in the category reserved, at the fare confirmed on the reservation invoice.

As existing options expire and accomodations become available, reservations on Guarantee status are automatically converted to stateroom assignments. As this process is an automated one, this can happen at any time, from only hours after the reservation is confirmed up until the time of sailing.

If at the time of sailing there is no stateroom available in the category Guaranteed, the Guest will be berthed in the next highest category stateroom available — at no additional charge.

 

Jan

*****

[susiesan]

Well, well. O must read these boards and relalized they had a PR problem on their hands. This policy was not on their web site when I made my reservation last June. O should have cleared this up long ago-this is not the first thread on this subject. If this policy had been in effect when I had booked, then I would not have booked a guarantee-I would have picked out the exact cabin I wanted which was available at that time since there was no possible chance at an upgrade. Now that cabin is taken. Future customers know what they will be getting-I was misled by Oceania. My TA is taking me to lunch tomorrow to get my feedback as an experienced cruiser/traveller as to how the various cruiselines I've sailed on over the past few years are doing. My opinion is quite valuable to my TA and I will tell them of my experience with O so far. Hopefully the onboard experience and cruise will make up for the negative impression I have of oceania right now.

[Jancruz]

I dont think you were misled..you assumed something that wasnt true..maybe your TA should have checked with Oceania to see their policy when you booked last year..even if it wasnt posted..

Jan

*****

[Bruin Steve]

Interesting that they have NOW posted that explanation.

 

Problem is that it is NOT true as of the date I made my booking.

 

"...to reserve a specific category of accommodation or fare aboard the cruise of their choice when no specific stateroom assignments are available at the time the reservation is made..."

 

Problem is they sold me (and I assume Susiesan as well) a "Guarantee" when there WERE "specific stateroom assignments" available ...

 

The language in this FAQ insinuates that if there were specific staterooms available then we should have been informed that a "guarantee" should not be available...and should have been directed to choose from among the many

cabins in our category then available...

 

So, although this policy may make some sense NOW, it does not in the context of when we were sold our cruises.

 

Now, if they followed this procedure...and that one small shot at an upgrade ("If at the time of sailing there is no stateroom available in the category Guaranteed, the Guest will be berthed in the next highest category stateroom available — at no additional charge") DID exist, there would be another inherent inequity:

 

The persons most likely (actually the ONLY persons likely) to benefit from a possible upgrade would be the LAST persons booked. Early reservations would be assigned specific cabins while those who waited around until all of the lower priced cabins were booked would then be upgraded without charge.

 

There really is only one answer: Don't sell "guarantees" at all. If Oceania easily sells out its cabins, what's the point? Sell only by specific cabin number--and AT the selected category's price. If you want a Cat G and there is a Cat G available, book it at the Cat G price. If you want an A1 and one is available, book it at the A1 price. If what you want is NOT available, well then, pick another category AND price. If someone who, say, wants a "G" and only "D"s are available, let them book a D at the D price and put them on a waiting list for a "G"...If one opens up, move them and adjust their price, etc. It is all relatively simple...and no reason to redefine "Guarantee" or chance confusing or offending anyone.

 

Think of going to a show or sporting event: You want a ticket in the Orchestra and they're sold out, grab one in the Mezzanine...If one opens up in the Orchestra, you can always contact the box office and make a trade and pay the difference...but nobody gets "bumped" to a better section for free...Why? They don't have to do it for any marketing reason...

 

Well, according to what we read here, neither does Oceania...If they don't have to worry about selling their cabins at their proscribed prices, then why not just sell them and not deal with the issue altogether?

 

But, clearly, whatever the FAQ NOW says, it is clearly NOT the way they have been operating...

[Jancruz]

It is the way they are operating now..and I asked them to post their poilicy so it would be in writing for all of you!

Jan

*****

[Kiwifruit]

I didn't realise what a can of worms I would open when I started this thread but it has been interesting reading nonetheless. What I do find surprising is that Oceania should seek to redefine what is meant by the term "guarantee" as it does seem to be a term "common to the industry" and has an assumed meaning amongst cruise goers. It is Oceania which seems to be out of step with the rest of the cruise industry and use of the term "waitlisted" would seem to be more appropriate as suggested earlier in this thread. Given your wide experience in the cruise industry and professional impartiality, what are your thoughts Jan?

 

My original query however seems to remain unanswered, is there any prospect that in taking a guarantee cabin that we could end up being "downgraded" or (perish the thought), miss out all together as has been suggested on another thread relating to another cruise line?

 

Cheers

 

D&D

[Bruin Steve]

My original query however seems to remain unanswered, is there any prospect that in taking a guarantee cabin that we could end up being "downgraded" or (perish the thought), miss out all together as has been suggested on another thread relating to another cruise line?

If they are indeed following the policy as Jan outlined, then, by pure logic, there is a chance that if you are sold a "guarantee" (assuming all other cabins have been sold), that you might get left out or, under circumstances downgraded (though probably with your consent).

 

First, you would hope that the cruise line has enough experience with the probabilities of booked cabins being canceled before the final payment date (it happens quite a bit) and would try to limit the sale of "guarantees", as they are, to a reasonable number so as to not back themselves into that corner...

 

But, on any given cruise, a larger number than expected--even the entirety of bookings--may make good on the initial booking and reservation and follow through with final payment...

 

So, what happens when they sell these "guarantees" on a ship that is "sold out" and no cabins open up? You just can't create additional cabins to which to assign people. At that point, one would think they would offer you a deal on a downgraded cabin should one be available--with you having the option to take it at a lower price of course...or if unavailable completely, to simply offer you something to reschedule on a different cruise...

 

Or so one would at least hope. That was the gist of that thread on another line...

 

Of course, it would be considerably disheartening...most of us have to plan for and arrange a vacation...and there are other plans and commitments (hotels, airfare, etc.) that go with it...

 

So, if they are in fact selling guarantees where cabins are "sold out", they run that danger...

 

Of course, they could always only offer these so called guarantees so long as they have at least some higher category still available...and block off further sales whenever the number of cabins reserved plus guarantees equal the number of cabins total on the ship...but, do you think they are really doing that? From the description, it sounds like they are booking guarantees beyond the "sold out" point and taking their chances...or, rather, YOUR chances...

[Jancruz]

I didn't realise what a can of worms I would open when I started this thread but it has been interesting reading nonetheless. What I do find surprising is that Oceania should seek to redefine what is meant by the term "guarantee" as it does seem to be a term "common to the industry" and has an assumed meaning amongst cruise goers. It is Oceania which seems to be out of step with the rest of the cruise industry and use of the term "waitlisted" would seem to be more appropriate as suggested earlier in this thread. Given your wide experience in the cruise industry and professional impartiality, what are your thoughts Jan?

 

My original query however seems to remain unanswered, is there any prospect that in taking a guarantee cabin that we could end up being "downgraded" or (perish the thought), miss out all together as has been suggested on another thread relating to another cruise line?

 

Cheers

 

D&D

 

Personally I think the term wait-listed would be fine..BUT guarantee means the same thing according to the dictionary (an assurance for the fulfillment of a condition: as a : an agreement by which one person undertakes to secure another in the possession or enjoyment of something)..it is just a few cruisers that have changed the meaning.

You will never be downgraded..I can "guarantee you that"

Jan

*****

[Trece]

Last year when I booked the Libya-less 11-5-05 cruise, initially I was "waitlisted" - which did not require a deposit and which also did not assure me I would even be on the cruise. This made me nervous as I was hesitant to book air when I hadn't even paid a deposit.

 

Within a few days my TA informed me I was now "guaranteed" - no cabin assignment but I had to pay the deposit. I felt confident booking air based on the guarantee representation.

 

Then, as I indicated in a prior post, eventually I received a cabin assignment.

 

So - at least last year, Oceania did not consider guarantee and waitlist to be interchangeable terms.

[Member]

Trece, I learned that "O" had "waitlisted - requires no deposit" and "priority waitlisted - requires a deposit" before getting to the "guaranteed - no cabin assignment" status. It serves me fine.

[susiesan]

..it is just a few cruisers that have changed the meaning.

 

Jan

*****

 

So the thousands and thousands of people who have cruised on all the lines over the years and paid for guarantee cabins have all been under a false meaning of "guarantee" and Oceania alone had it right? I have personally bought a guarantee cabin on NCL, Princess, Celebrity, HAL, Renaissance and other lines no longer in business. Oceania is the ONLY line that assigned me a cabin within 2 days of booking, which was not a guarantee cabin at all under the meaning the thousands of us have been going by. I've had guarantees booked where I got my cabin assignment upon arriving at the ship. Now that Oceania has changed their policy/definition of guarantee, will those of us who booked under false pretenses get an apology or explanation? Doubt it.

[Kiwifruit]

With respect Jan, speaking from the perspective of a lawyer, were a Court ever asked to determine whether or not Oceania had engaged in misleading or deceptive conduct it would be guided by what the "reasonable" person familiar with the cruise industry would understand the term "guarantee" to mean in the context of a cruise booking and would not rely on any dictionary meaning if this conflicted with the meaning commonly ascribed to the term within the industry.

 

Its seems to me that it is not just "a few cruisers that have changed the meaning" but other cruises lines themselves have caused this term to assume a specific meaning within the industry. If Oceania want to avoid potential legal ramifications and use a different meaning for the term "guarantee" then this shoud be stipulated in the terms and conditions and advised to passengers at time of booking to ensure customers are not mislead (not buried in FAQ section). Far better that they use a different term to avoid confusion. I appreciate that the term "waitlist" may be inappropriate as it does not imply any definitive commitment to a place on the cruise. Perhaps the term "confirmed-cabin unallocated" could be used.

 

Alternatively, Oceania could always decide to bite the bullet and conform with the usual industry standard. As I understand, Oceania cruises are generally full so the prospect of upgrade would not be great in any event. From your perspective as a travel agent selling cruises, Oceania providing free upgrades is probably not desirable as it may create an expectation in the mind of the passenger and deter them from purchasing more expensive cabins on which the agent makes a greater commision, but from the perspective of the cruise line it comes down to good PR, something Oceania may benefit from given the tone of this thread.

 

D&D

[Bruin Steve]

With respect Jan, speaking from the perspective of a lawyer, were a Court ever asked to determine whether or not Oceania had engaged in misleading or deceptive conduct it would be guided by what the "reasonable" person familiar with the cruise industry would understand the term "guarantee" to mean in the context of a cruise booking and would not rely on any dictionary meaning if this conflicted with the meaning commonly ascribed to the term within the industry.

Ay, fellow counselor...

I concur...

However, the saving grace for Oceania, or any other cruise line selling a "guarantee", regardless of the specifics of whether they are working under a misleading definition or not, is the question of "damages"...fortunately for them, SO LONG AS THEY ACTUALLY CAN accommodate you on the cruise, a party who has been somehow "wronged" ethically has not neccessarily been wronged financially...So long as the assigned cabin, whenever and however assigned is at least the same category as the category guaranteed. In fact, even if they were to "downgrade" you (not that they would without your agreement), the measure of damages is still only the difference between the contracted for value and the actual value...

 

You would only be able to collect (absent some showing of malice or wrongful intent--unlikely) your ACTUAL damages...which would be ZERO...

 

The only real liability for any cruise line would be in the event that they absolutely could not accommodate you on the cruise, in which case, your actual damages may also include any amounts expended for airfare, nonrefundable hotel costs and other out-of-pocket costs...and, possibily, depending on the court, the difference in price paid for a similar replacement cruise with another line--even if booked at higher cost due to late booking...and other incidental and consequential damages.

 

...All of which begs the question as to whether or not the cruise line is actually selling guarantees beyond the point the cruise is otherwise sold out...Because THAT is the only way they could get stuck having to "bump" someone from a cruise altogether...If they misjudge the lack of a fallout after final payment...

 

Of course, it is apparently not that great of a concern to some cruise lines: They'd rather take that gamble and then negotiate with passengers on switching cruises for some minor benefit...at least rather than turn away paying customers and risk not filling up the ship after some bookings cancel late. The cruise lines know that the odds of any passenger hiring a law firm at tremendous out-of-pocket cost to go after this limited amount of damages are fairly low. There is a point at which some passenger will say "Okay, book me on a cruise next month at a reduced fare or an upgraded cabin or with an onboard credit" and the problem will be solved cheaply enough.

 

I can understand how some posters, like SusieSan, can be upset with Oceania over this...I tend to be a little more philosophical...I find their marketing of "guarantees" to be deceptive (I still don't buy Jan's notion that their posting this definition now makes up for the fact that these guarantees were marketed differently in the past), BUT, live and learn...at least I've got my cruise and the cabin I would have paid for were there no "guarantees" offered...

 

 

The only way I was "damaged" was that, had I known, I would have had the opportunity to pick a different cabin from the several available last August...Frankly, I didn't pay much attention at the time, assuming 6011 was "good enough"...Deck 6 sounds fine to me for convenience sake...Of course, I didn't look at the time to see that we are DIRECTLY ABOVE THE DANCE FLOOR!! I guess it's better than being directly below a dance floor...Anyway, with a "guarantee" as practiced by other cruise lines, we may have gotten the same cabin assignment anyway...so, no harm...Except that there was no benefit to booking it as a guarantee either...

 

Think of it as going to Vegas and putting a buck in a slot machine...

You are guaranteed nothing more than losing your dollar...

But, you do stand a chance at winning something...and that is why you play...

 

If the slot machine had a sign that said "Deposit one dollar. You have absolutely no chance at winning ANYTHING", I doubt any of us would play...

[Kiwifruit]

Hey Steve,

 

Being from the US i'm surprised you were unable to conjure up some sort of damages claim after all you are the most litigious country on the planet <tongue in cheek>.

 

 

What about "loss of enjoyment", "infliction of emotional distress", etc, etc i'm sure a US court could quantify some sort of damages claim. Then of course there are always punitive damages as it seems Oceania's conduct may well be calculated to deceive, and up until now have made commercial decision to persist. As an evidentiary matter I agree would be difficult to prove.

 

Bottom line is that provided we get accomodated in the cabin catergory we have paid for we will be happy ..... that having been said Oceania could learn a lot from the posts in this thread and change the way in which they handle the whole matter of "guarantee" cabins so passengers are not mislead.

[PurpleCow]

Steve, we were in 6016 on Insignia last summer. The only time there was anything from the dance floor below was on "50's Night" and then it was only a quiet bass vibration. I was so exhausted and the bed was so comfortable that I fell asleep easily and wasn't bothered at all.

[mike35]

Hmmmm -- I wonder if the lawyer-victim of our esteemed VP's wayward buckshot might have been waxing philosophical about cruise line guarantees:rolleyes:

Perhaps dead-eye Dick just couldn't take it any more (as I'm sure many of us reading this inane thread are starting to feel).

 

Mike

[shoshona2]

Hi Mike,

 

Great post -- hopefully, this will be the end of this thread.

 

Steve, please post here when you finally return from your first Oceania cruise and let us know if it was worth all the words you have posted in the past months.

 

Best regards,

Sheila

[Kiwifruit]

Interestingly, I just found this definition of "guarantee" on www dot cruise quick dot com used in respect of Oceania bookings :

 

"When booking a GTY / GUAR / GUARANTEED cabin, passengers are Guaranteed the best cabin available within the category booked. For example, passengers booking a GTY / GUAR / GUARANTEED Oceanview cabin are guaranteed a cabin with an ocean view. Your cabin may be located on any passenger deck of the ship, but you will be guaranteed AT LEAST the category for which you paid, or the best available BETTER cabin on a better deck or higher category. You will receive your cabin assignment when you check in for your cruise."

 

This certainly does not concur with Oceania's definition but does i suspect conform with the general practice within the industry.

[cul8r]

Hi Kiwi

We just received the tickets for the March 8 Regatta sailing and they indicate our guarantee cabin has been assigned a one category upgrade from the price we paid. Good luck with your guarantee. I'm smiling when I repeat what you said - its always reassuring to have a cabin allocation - because for SURE you WILL have a location SOMEWHERE.:D

[opheliaj]

We have booked a guaranteed PH suite so there is no way we will be upgraded. I had no hesitation to book that way, but upon reading how dissatisfied so many people are with their experience in booking this way, I am getting concerned.

 

Also, is it common for a cuise line (O) to overbook in the same sense an airline does? That's my biggest concern, because if they can't accommodate us in a PH it is very unlikely there will be anything in a class above that available.

[Jancruz]

Oceania wouldnt book a guarantee if they didnt think you would get it..Most of the complaints are they got the cabin in the category they booked so soon after booking..

Dont worry!!

Jan

*****

[Bruin Steve]

We have booked a guaranteed PH suite so there is no way we will be upgraded. I had no hesitation to book that way, but upon reading how dissatisfied so many people are with their experience in booking this way, I am getting concerned.

 

Also, is it common for a cuise line (O) to overbook in the same sense an airline does? That's my biggest concern, because if they can't accommodate us in a PH it is very unlikely there will be anything in a class above that available.

This situation makes the entire thing easy to explain...

First, I am sure that Oceania expects to be able to accommodate you...

Each Oceania ship contains 52 Penthouse Suites and 10 Owners or Vista Suites...

Let's assume Jan is correct and they are ONLY selling you a "guarantee" because ALL 52 Penthouse Suites are presently "booked"...

Hopefully, Oceania knows, from experience, that some percentage of these 52 bookings will fall by the wayside before the ship sails...Some will change their minds, some will fail to make final payment...

So, they take a guess...let's say they think there's typically a 33% "dropout" rate...So, maybe they sell 17 "guarantees"...When those 17 cabins fall away, they simply move people from "guaranteed" into one of the specific cabins...

 

They have a small amount of breathing room because they could possibly place you in a Vista Suite or an Owners Suite as well...though they would prefer not to since they could sell those for considerably more...

 

They should be wary of selling TOO MANY guarantees in this manner, but the laws of probability usually hold true...

 

Of course, it is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE that they misjudge the number of cancellations...

 

Let's say all 62 Suites are booked and they have also booked 17 "guarantees"...

Now let's say ALL or most of the existing bookings follow through and make final payment...

There now exists a major and unavoidable problem...There is NO WAY to create more cabins than exist...

 

Now, perhaps Jan can ask her friends at Oceania...but, what I have read that Princess does is to start "negotiating" with passengers...Will you take a lesser cabin or a different date or a different ship in exchange for an onboard credit? If you won't, will someone else? How about a different cruise at 25% off? At half price? They will keep working it until someone takes them up and it frees up a cabin. Luckily, the laws of probability more often work out and they don't have to do this much...

 

But simple logic tells you that if you sell "guarantees" on "sold out" cabins, at some time or another you will guess wrong and end up in a bind...

 

Jan, the problem some of us have with the guarantees we were sold is completely different...It stems from being sold "guarantees" when there were ample UNSOLD cabins...in the same category as the guarantee...The reason we were IMMEDIATELY assigned cabins is because there were plenty to be assigned, making the guarantee thing a charade...all we did was to pas on the opportunity to make our own cabin choice...

 

Where Oceania appears to differ with all of the other lines in selling guarantees is that the other lines will sell a certain number of "guarantees" even though the categories are not sold out...The advantage to the cruise lines is to be able to continue to sell specific cabins in those categories to customers wishing to book specific cabins while giving themselves the flexibility to move the "guarantees" wherever they want so as to accommodate the marketing of the cruise in all categories.

 

Apparently, Oceania either ONLY books guarantees to protect themselves against cancellations or as an instant default into an assigned cabin chosen by the line...

 

But, as such, YOU are not really guaranteed a cabin unless a cabin is already available (which they might as well have sold you by specific cabin number)...

 

Rather than guaranteeing, they are merely prioritizing you into a waiting list for cancelled cabin bookings...with the expectation that they eventually will have enough cancellations to cover the booked "guarantees"...Except that logic dictates that that they can't really "guaranty" the "guarantees"...

[Member]

Ditto... Bruin.