Transferring cruise questions?

[wowzz]

Is there any reason why P&O don't sell "unbundled" fly/cruises to Malta and the Caribbean, other than to "muddy the waters" as to the individual cost elements.

We would like to fly out a few days before, and return a few days after our cruise,  especially in the Caribbean,  but to do so with P&O in effect means that we have to pay for our air fare twice, as there is virtually no reduction given if you do not take the flight element of the package.

Obviously we can cruise with other lines, but that normally means leaving from Miami/Fort Lauderdale (US immigration!) or San Juan (expensive flights). 

[ann141]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

Is there any reason why P&O don't sell "unbundled" fly/cruises to Malta and the Caribbean, other than to "muddy the waters" as to the individual cost elements.

We would like to fly out a few days before, and return a few days after our cruise,  especially in the Caribbean,  but to do so with P&O in effect means that we have to pay for our air fare twice, as there is virtually no reduction given if you do not take the flight element of the package.

Obviously we can cruise with other lines, but that normally means leaving from Miami/Fort Lauderdale (US immigration!) or San Juan (expensive flights). 

When we tried to do this we were told it was because P and O charter the flights to the Caribbean.I did try and argue that occasionally they put people on other flights but to no avail.

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, ann141 said:

When we tried to do this we were told it was because P and O charter the flights to the Caribbean.I did try and argue that occasionally they put people on other flights but to no avail.

I assume that in order to make the charter flights economical, P&O need to fill all the seats, hence the lack of choice.

One of the reasons that we will not use P&O for Caribbean cruises, is that you cannot select your flight seats at the time of booking (correct me if I am wrong). We won't fly economy for a flight of that length,  and so it becomes a lottery as to what seats you will get. Seems crazy that you can select exactly what cabin you want, but can't choose which seat you get on the aircraft until close to the departure date.

Edited January 27, 2021 by wowzz

[ann141]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

I assume that in order to make the charter flights economical, P&O need to fill all the seats, hence the lack of choice.

One of the reasons that we will not use P&O for Caribbean cruises, is that you cannot select your flight seats at the time of booking (correct me if I am wrong). We won't fly economy for a flight of that length,  and so it becomes a lottery as to what seats you will get. Seems crazy that you can select exactly what cabin you want, but can't choose which seat you get on the aircraft. 

I think when you book a fly cruise, particularly if a long way ahead P and O don't know whether you will (or rather used to be) on a Thomas Cook or Thomson flight.We tend to put a date on the calendar when flight seats are due to be released and then join the others at midnight trying to book a Premium Economy seat

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, ann141 said:

I think when you book a fly cruise, particularly if a long way ahead P and O don't know whether you will (or rather used to be) on a Thomas Cook or Thomson flight.We tend to put a date on the calendar when flight seats are due to be released and then join the others at midnight trying to book a Premium Economy seat

To a certain extent I can understand that, although nowadays basically it is either TUI or TUI. However, surely you could be allowed to specify you want a PE seat when you book the cruise,  and pay the premium then, rather than take part in the midnight lottery.  It just seems so messy and amateurish.  

[joeecco]

12 minutes ago, wowzz said:

To a certain extent I can understand that, although nowadays basically it is either TUI or TUI. However, surely you could be allowed to specify you want a PE seat when you book the cruise,  and pay the premium then, rather than take part in the midnight lottery.  It just seems so messy and amateurish.  

I guess this means they aren’t sure which aircraft they will be using, even 787s have different configurations now so P&O probably think it’s worth waiting until the exact plane is confirmed and then booking people in PE as opposed to doing it in advance and then having to adjust numbers if the aircraft changes. 

[ann141]

6 minutes ago, joeecco said:

I guess this means they aren’t sure which aircraft they will be using, even 787s have different configurations now so P&O probably think it’s worth waiting until the exact plane is confirmed and then booking people in PE as opposed to doing it in advance and then having to adjust numbers if the aircraft changes. 

Yes.I think that is the case

[wowzz]

29 minutes ago, joeecco said:

I guess this means they aren’t sure which aircraft they will be using, even 787s have different configurations now so P&O probably think it’s worth waiting until the exact plane is confirmed and then booking people in PE as opposed to doing it in advance and then having to adjust numbers if the aircraft changes. 

Which sounds sensible, but if I book a holiday with TUI, even 2 years ahead, I am told during the booking process if PE seats are available, and immediately after making my booking I can select my seats, so it can be done. P&O just don't want to do it.

[joeecco]

7 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Which sounds sensible, but if I book a holiday with TUI, even 2 years ahead, I am told during the booking process if PE seats are available, and immediately after making my booking I can select my seats, so it can be done. P&O just don't want to do it.

Yeah I know, my point was that TUI probably have it in their contract that they can substitute with aircraft they charter to P&O and each one can have slightly different seating configurations. Likewise if p&O don’t fill a plane from BHX they probably request a smaller cabin. 

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, joeecco said:

Yeah I know, my point was that TUI probably have it in their contract that they can substitute with aircraft they charter to P&O and each one can have slightly different seating configurations. Likewise if p&O don’t fill a plane from BHX they probably request a smaller cabin. 

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Aircraft are allocated to certain bases, and are not switched around unless they go technical. TUI and P&O  determine in advance how many seats of which type will be on each route.

[joeecco]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Aircraft are allocated to certain bases, and are not switched around unless they go technical. TUI and P&O  determine in advance how many seats of which type will be on each route.

A friend of mine who flies for TUI says otherwise. He says the charter aircraft are often tossed around different bases and are worked around which aircraft is in for maintenance etc. We obviously have different sources with different viewpoints. 

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, joeecco said:

A friend of mine who flies for TUI says otherwise. He says the charter aircraft are often tossed around different bases and are worked around which aircraft is in for maintenance etc. We obviously have different sources with different viewpoints. 

True! However, I still think that it should be possible for P&O to guarantee that you will be allocated 

PE seats,  even if the exact seats are not allocated.  If they just allocate the minimum number of PE seats available on any version of the 787, everyone will be happy, and spare seats can be sold nearer the actual flight tine. 

[terrierjohn]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

Is there any reason why P&O don't sell "unbundled" fly/cruises to Malta and the Caribbean, other than to "muddy the waters" as to the individual cost elements.

We would like to fly out a few days before, and return a few days after our cruise,  especially in the Caribbean,  but to do so with P&O in effect means that we have to pay for our air fare twice, as there is virtually no reduction given if you do not take the flight element of the package.

Obviously we can cruise with other lines, but that normally means leaving from Miami/Fort Lauderdale (US immigration!) or San Juan (expensive flights). 

I wonder if the very competitive air fare component, which presumably is influenced by the numbers involved, might be the reason P&O don't want to offer a reduced cruise only fare.

You might have more success lobbying P&O to offer a fly-cruise option which would still leave them with the same numbers flying.

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I wonder if the very competitive air fare component, which presumably is influenced by the numbers involved, might be the reason P&O don't want to offer a reduced cruise only fare

Are you saying that because P&O get advantageous charter rates, if they offered cruise only prices, people would see how little the air fare element actually is?

I can understand why P&O do not want to show an unbundled fare, but I do think that making people play "seat roulette" at midnight in order to get a PE seat is not great customer service. 

[nicki-k]

Thanks everyone for your responses, we have now transferred our August cruise to next April and we are looking forward to our first fly cruise. We are only 40 minutes from Gatwick so should work well for us 😀

[NauticalMiss]

21 hours ago, wowzz said:

True! However, I still think that it should be possible for P&O to guarantee that you will be allocated 

PE seats,  even if the exact seats are not allocated.  If they just allocate the minimum number of PE seats available on any version of the 787, everyone will be happy, and spare seats can be sold nearer the actual flight tine. 

Sorry, but I'm slightly confused by your post. Do you mean P&O don't guarantee specific PE seat numbers when you book your cruise? We always book PE on fly/cruises and are guaranteed PE seats, but not seat numbers. It's a damn nuisance, but I don't think anything will change, unfortunately. I also begrudge paying extra fees to book seat numbers. 

 

Personally, I speculate that not being able to book specific seats is something to do with the software interface between P&O and the airline, who need a flight manifest. Many, many people cancel cruises so the flight manifest can be fluid almost to the day of flying. Once people have paid their full balances at 13 weeks out, they're pretty much committed to travelling. I must say that this is total speculation, and may sound ridiculous to some. 

[terrierjohn]

6 minutes ago, NauticalMiss said:

Sorry, but I'm slightly confused by your post. Do you mean P&O don't guarantee specific PE seat numbers when you book your cruise? We always book PE on fly/cruises and are guaranteed PE seats, but not seat numbers. It's a damn nuisance, but I don't think anything will change, unfortunately. I also begrudge paying extra fees to book seat numbers. 

 

Personally, I speculate that not being able to book specific seats is something to do with the software interface between P&O and the airline, who need a flight manifest. Many, many people cancel cruises so the flight manifest can be fluid almost to the day of flying. Once people have paid their full balances at 13 weeks out, they're pretty much committed to travelling. I must say that this is total speculation, and may sound ridiculous to some. 

I would hazard a guess that charter flight manifests are far more stable than scheduled flights.

[wowzz]

50 minutes ago, NauticalMiss said:

Sorry, but I'm slightly confused by your post. Do you mean P&O don't guarantee specific PE seat numbers when you book your cruise? We always book PE on fly/cruises and are guaranteed PE seats, but not seat numbers. It's a damn nuisance, but I don't think anything will change, unfortunately. I also begrudge paying extra fees to book seat numbers. 

 

Personally, I speculate that not being able to book specific seats is something to do with the software interface between P&O and the airline, who need a flight manifest. Many, many people cancel cruises so the flight manifest can be fluid almost to the day of flying. Once people have paid their full balances at 13 weeks out, they're pretty much committed to travelling. I must say that this is total speculation, and may sound ridiculous to some. 

If that is the case, I apologise. I was under the impression that you were unable to book PE seats at the time of booking.  

[joeecco]

1 hour ago, NauticalMiss said:

Sorry, but I'm slightly confused by your post. Do you mean P&O don't guarantee specific PE seat numbers when you book your cruise? We always book PE on fly/cruises and are guaranteed PE seats, but not seat numbers. It's a damn nuisance, but I don't think anything will change, unfortunately. I also begrudge paying extra fees to book seat numbers. 

 

Personally, I speculate that not being able to book specific seats is something to do with the software interface between P&O and the airline, who need a flight manifest. Many, many people cancel cruises so the flight manifest can be fluid almost to the day of flying. Once people have paid their full balances at 13 weeks out, they're pretty much committed to travelling. I must say that this is total speculation, and may sound ridiculous to some. 

Out of curiosity, is it a set price to upgrade or does it differ? 

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, NauticalMiss said:

I also begrudge paying extra fees to book seat numbers.

You probably already know about the extortionate cost that BA charge to select seats in Club!

Makes TUI look parsimonious.!

[BrianI]

With a P&O charter flight, there is no cost saving for P&O if someone does not want to take the flight. The cost to operate the flight remains the same. I can therefore understand the reluctance in offering a reduction.

It is different where a scheduled flight is used, such as world cruise sectors, and in this case they are charged per passenger. This enables the flight element to be much more flexible and you can have a cruise only fare or fly out or back a few days either side of the cruise dates.

Brian

[NauticalMiss]

On 1/28/2021 at 11:48 AM, wowzz said:

You probably already know about the extortionate cost that BA charge to select seats in Club!

Makes TUI look parsimonious.!

You are so right! Last year, it cost £150 each to book specific seats in Club; that was just on the outbound flight. We were travelling in First on the inbound flight, where there is no additional fee to book specific seats.   

[NauticalMiss]

On 1/28/2021 at 11:41 AM, joeecco said:

Out of curiosity, is it a set price to upgrade or does it differ? 

It varies; we've just paid an additional £499 each for PE seats to the Caribbean this coming November, which is the most we've ever paid in 7 years of going. A couple of years ago it was £349 each but that was from Gatwick. I don't know if it's more expensive in November as we're flying from Manchester? Forgot to ask. We couldn't fly from Gatwick as we usually do as there were no PE seats on either flight. I guess this just shows the demand for PE seats to the Caribbean is high ........

[NauticalMiss]

On 1/28/2021 at 10:39 AM, terrierjohn said:

I would hazard a guess that charter flight manifests are far more stable than scheduled flights.

I would agree; you may be right. However, I think it's the software interface that is the problem, not the manifest itself. On fly-cruises, P&O control the passenger lists (and hence the manifest), but the seats themselves are booked via the airline's portal. When booking a scheduled flight (either online or by phone), the airline controls the manifest. As I said though, this is just my own speculative opinion.