First North American Cruise Line Vaccine Mandate

[Mapleleafforever]

8 hours ago, cured said:

Not sure what that has to do with me. I do not fall in the 70+ age category. So, I am still planning on cruising as soon as this GLOBAL pandemic is mitigated.

We don't know about those over 70 and those with chronic conditions yet. This suggests they may ask for some form of proof (Dr's note perhaps) that we are healthy enough to cruise. For the first few years or so anyway. Everything is still up in the air. 

[ace2542]

22 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

This suggests they may ask for some form of proof (Dr's note perhaps) that we are healthy enough to cruise. For the first few years or so anyway.

Docs note can be very easily forged and nearly impossible to verify. Ok forged at your own risk if something happens to you but still forged easily. And you assume a doctor will be willing to make that statement?

Edited February 6, 2021 by ace2542

[Mapleleafforever]

1 minute ago, ace2542 said:

Docs note can be very easily forged and nearly impossible to verify. Ok forged at your own risk if something happens to you but still forged easily. And you assume a doctor will be willing to make that statement?

Starting early today eh Ace?

[ace2542]

Just now, Mapleleafforever said:

Starting early today eh Ace?

You try and confirm my doctor wrote a note for my father not that I would forge one. You will be position 17 on hold. Might be there for an hour. No sorry we are checking in for my cruise on a Sunday. My doctor is closed and I don't have his home phone number. And even if they are open you are trying ring from Bayonne on an international number with the time difference?. They will just as we say in the call centre business button the call when they see "international number" appear on their screen.

[Tippyton]

10 hours ago, cured said:

Many have tried to explain the science to you.  Not going to try yet again.

 

As I said before, we can debate this till we are blue in the face but nobody's opinion on here including yours and mine will influence the decision of businesses and their choice of whether they mandate vaccines or not. The science supports it. More and more news is trickling out that this may be the way of the future. But we will just have to wait and see.

You wouldn't recognize science if it hit you in the face with a 95% confidence interval.  You and others hide behind "the science" without even knowing what that means.  The "science" on Covid changes daily, because it is new.  The "science" says that Covid is really not any deadlier than the flu.  It is new, so there is essentially ZERO immunity (I won't bore you with the "essentially" qualifier).  The flu kills 50k ANNUALLY DESPITE A 50% VACCINATION RATE AND DESPITE THAT VARIANTS HAVE BEEN CIRCULATING IN THE POPULATION FOR CENTURIES!  Covid is new so hysterics prevail.  

 

Norovirus?  Perhaps as deadly as Covid, but not as transmissable (vector is different). Not going away.  Colds not going away.  Flu not going away.  But we're going through all this for Covid why?

 

https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-019-4007-2#:~:text=A systematic review of 39,results fall within these ranges.

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Docs note can be very easily forged and nearly impossible to verify. Ok forged at your own risk if something happens to you but still forged easily. And you assume a doctor will be willing to make that statement?

I absolutely, positively, undeniably can NOT believe I am doing this...............I agree with Ace (gulp-that hurt). I would never provide such a “clearance” letter for a cruise 

Edited February 6, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[Ocean Boy]

11 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I absolutely, positively, undeniably can NOT believe I am doing this...............I agree with Ace (gulp-that hurt). I would never provide such a “clearance” letter for a cruise 

I truly think that many don't understand the liability that is taken on by complying with some if the requests that they make. They just get angry when they don't get what they want.

[not-enough-cruising]

18 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I truly think that many don't understand the liability that is taken on by complying with some if the requests that they make. They just get angry when they don't get what they want.

I had a request last year for a letter stating a patient had a medical need for a jacuzzi in their home to relieve Rheumatoid systems. They felt a letter from me would compel their health insurance company to pay for it. 

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I had a request last year for a letter stating a patient had a medical need for a jacuzzi in their home to relieve Rheumatoid systems. They felt a letter from me would compel their health insurance company to pay for it. 

I don't suppose you can say whether you gave the letter out or not can you? But if they had forged the letter what would you have done if the insurance company had contacted you to verify?.

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I absolutely, positively, undeniably can NOT believe I am doing this...............I agree with Ace (gulp-that hurt). I would never provide such a “clearance” letter for a cruise 

Of course not because you would be what phrase should we use nailing your colours to the mast with that? I am sure there are a hundred different phrases we can use. And you would never want that and if anything went wrong you might be open to lawsuits.

Edited February 6, 2021 by ace2542

[not-enough-cruising]

51 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I don't suppose you can say whether you gave the letter out or not can you? But if they had forged the letter what would you have done if the insurance company had contacted you to verify?.

No I did not write the letter, as a matter of fact they made quite a scene about it, expecting me to give in to keep from having a scene in front of a waiting room full of patients. The next day I had my office manager send them a notarized letter expelling them from our practice and instructions to not return to the office.

 

If anyone were to ever supply a letter and ask me to authenticate it, had I not written it, I simply would state I had no knowledge of it. I actually had to address this similar situation many years ago, in the days of hand written prescriptions.  I had received a call from a pharmacist who was very familiar with my standard protocols; a patient our practice had cared for in the hospital had tampered with the refill amounts on their prescription.

[Incognito1]

On 2/3/2021 at 5:43 PM, MommaBear55 said:

When I got vaccinated, not only did my "card stock" have the vaccine type and lot number, it was put in a federal data base registry

Now that's a scary thought.

[ace2542]

On 2/6/2021 at 3:00 AM, cured said:

Interesting article from the NYT reporting on the push towards digital Vaccine passports.  What is very interesting is how many requests the companies developing digital passports are getting from different areas such as major league sports, concert halls, businesses, and the travel industry.

 

The passports are being developed to show both vaccination status and while they include proof of negative testing reporting component, the article leans towards the passports being more for proof of vaccine.  They reiterate that this is not unprecedented and that proof of vaccine has actually been common during history.

 

If this is even 50% factual, businesses are indeed moving towards requiring proof of vaccine.  This coincides with other reporting that believes vaccines are going to be mandated to access many businesses, sports, and travel.  Since this thread started out commenting that the American Queen Steamboat Company, Victory Cruise Lines will be mandating vaccines. It looks like they are just one of the first and others will be following their example.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’

In the near future, travel may require digital documentation showing that passengers have been vaccinated or tested for the coronavirus. Answers to your questions.

• By Tariro Mzezewa

• Published Feb. 4, 2021Updated Feb. 5, 2021, 3:15 p.m. ET

 

Among governments and those in the travel industry, a new term has entered the vocabulary: vaccine passport.

 

One of President Biden’s executive orders aimed at curbing the pandemic asks government agencies to “assess the feasibility” of linking coronavirus vaccine certificates with other vaccination documents, and producing digital versions of them.

 

Denmark’s government said on Wednesday that in the next three to four months, it will roll out a digital passport that will allow citizens to show they have been vaccinated.

 

It isn’t just governments that are suggesting vaccine passports. In a few weeks, Etihad Airways and Emirates will start using a digital travel pass, developed by the International Air Transport Association, to help passengers manage their travel plans and provide airlines and governments documentation that they have been vaccinated or tested for Covid-19.

 

The challenge right now is creating a document or app that is accepted around the world, that protects privacy and is accessible to people regardless of their wealth or access to smartphones.

 

What is a vaccine pass or passport?

A vaccination pass or passport is documentation proving that you have been vaccinated against Covid-19. Some versions will also allow people to show that they have tested negative for the virus, and therefore can more easily travel. The versions being worked on now by airlines, industry groups, nonprofits and technology companies will be something you can pull up on your mobile phone as an app or part of your digital wallet.

 

“It’s about trying to digitize a process that happens now and make it into something that allows for more harmony and ease, making it easier for people to travel between countries without having to pull out different papers for different countries and different documents at different checkpoints,” said Nick Careen, senior vice president for airport, passenger, cargo and security at I.A.T.A. Mr. Careen has been leading I.A.T.A.’s travel pass initiative.

 

I.A.T.A. is one of several organizations that have been working on digital solutions to streamline the travel credentialing process for years; during the pandemic, these groups have focused on including vaccination status. The idea is that if you have all the pertinent information on your phone, a significant amount of time will be saved.

 

In addition to I.A.T.A., IBM has been developing its own Digital Health Pass that would enable individuals to present proof of vaccination or a negative test to gain access to a public location, such as a sports stadium, airplane, university or workplace. The pass, built on IBM’s blockchain technology, can utilize multiple data types, including temperature checks, virus exposure notifications, test results and vaccine status. The World Economic Forum and the Commons Project Foundation, a Swiss nonprofit group, have been testing a digital health passport called CommonPass, which would allow travelers to access testing or vaccination information. The pass would generate a QR code that could be shown to authorities.

 

 

Why would I need a vaccine pass or passport?

As more people are inoculated, there will likely be aspects of public life in which only people who have been vaccinated are allowed to participate. Take the upcoming Super Bowl LV in Tampa, Fla., where a significant portion of attendees will be vaccinated health care workers. (Mr. Careen of I.A.T.A. said that sporting organizations, concert venues and tourism agencies have all reached out for identification tech support.)

 

In order to travel internationally, government and health authorities will need to know if you have been vaccinated or have tested negative for the virus. Many countries are already requiring proof of a negative test for entry. Such passes could be essential to restarting the tourism industry, said Zurab Pololikashvili, secretary general of the United Nations World Tourism Organization.

 

“One key element vital for the restart of tourism is consistency and harmonization of rules and protocols regarding international travel,” he said in an email. “Evidence of vaccination, for example, through the coordinated introduction of what may be called ‘health passports’ can offer this. They can also eliminate the need for quarantine on arrival, a policy which is also standing in the way of the return of international tourism.”

 

Dakota Gruener, executive director of ID2020, a global public-private partnership, said that there are three scenarios regarding digital credentialing for the coronavirus response. The first, which is largely off the table, is the creation of immunity certificates. These are documents that would show that people have developed some kind of immunity to the virus. The second scenario is being able to prove you’ve tested negative for the virus; the third is being able to show that you have been vaccinated. The last two scenarios, experts agree, are the most important for getting the travel industry going again.

 

“We’re seeing a lot of interest from airlines, airline industry groups, customs and border control agencies and travelers, all saying, ‘how do I safely get on a plane or as a condition of entry into a country, get on a train, whatever the case may be, and prove that I have been tested or vaccinated?’” Ms. Gruener said.

Ms. Gruener is one expert in a World Health Organization-sponsored group tasked with establishing global standards for digital vaccination certificates.

 

 

For decades, people traveling to certain countries have had to prove that they have been vaccinated against yellow fever, rubella and other diseases. Often, those vaccinated received a signed and stamped “yellow card.”Credit...Juan Mabromata/AFP via Getty Images

Has this been done before?

Having to prove you’ve been vaccinated in order to participate in activities or enter certain countries is not a new concept. For decades, people traveling to some countries have had to prove that they have been vaccinated against diseases such as yellow fever, rubella and cholera. Often, after being vaccinated, travelers received a signed and stamped “yellow card,” known as an International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still urge people to take on relevant trips.

 

“Everybody who has traveled internationally to countries that require vaccination against malaria, diphtheria and other things has had yellow cards,” said Brian Behlendorf, executive director of Linux Foundation Public Health, a technology-focused organization helping public health authorities combat Covid-19 around the world. Its focus is helping projects, communities and companies build open-source technology. “Parents with kids in public school have had to prove their kids have been vaccinated. This is not something new.”

 

But a major difference between the yellow card of years past and what is being worked on now is the digital component, which comes with new concerns around privacy and accessibility. The Linux Foundation is working in partnership with the Covid-19 Credentials Initiative, a collective of more than 300 people from five continents to help develop universal standards for vaccine credential apps that make them accessible and equitable. The foundation is also working with IBM and CommonPass.

 

“As these things get rolled out, it’s important for citizens to ask governments and airlines: How do we make this easy so I have one vaccination record to book a flight, hotel and so I can use that to do some other things,” Mr. Behlendorf said. “It should work like email. If it doesn’t, agitate for it.”

 

Do vaccine passports have to be digital?

Vaccine passports don’t have to be digital, but they would make the travel process smoother.

 

“Imagine a future where a plane lands in an airport and a hundred people have a travel pass, 100 have another health wallet, 50 have bits of paper and another 25 have some kind of government document,” said Jamie Smith, senior director of business development at Evernym, a developer that has been working with I.A.T.A. and others on developing a vaccine pass. “What does the airport do? How do they process all those people in a standard, simple way?”

 

The European Union’s law enforcement agency said this week that sales of fake negative test results are becoming more widespread, another reason the industry is trying to develop digital passes that are secure.

 

 

What are the objections to vaccine passports?

In a world where more than a billion people aren’t able to prove their identity because they lack passports, birth certificates, driver’s licenses or national identification cards, digital documents that show vaccine status may heighten inequality and risk, leaving many people behind. That concern has been at the heart of Ms. Gruener’s work.

 

“Long predating Covid, we were working on the intersection of digital credentials and immunization,” she said. “It’ll be years before vaccines are universally available on a global level and thus widespread testing is going to continue and must continue alongside vaccination to enable a safe and equitable return to travel and other public activities.”

 

For those without smartphones, the industry says it will accept paper proof, but even that needs to be standardized.

 

In addition, there are concerns about privacy and data sharing.

 

“There are ways this could be done right or done terribly wrong and the wrong ways could lead us to a techno dystopia,” said Jenny Wanger, director of programs at the Linux Foundation, adding that it’s important that the tech-building aspect of these apps be done in the open and doesn’t end up in the control of any one government or company. The technology should be open source and accessible to technologists, no matter who they are or where they are, she and others said.

What are the challenges to creating these digital passes?

Technologists and travel industry experts said that although it is possible to rush tech solutions that allow people to have one-use apps, creating long-lasting ethical technology or systems that will not store people’s data, or make it possible to track where they are, takes time.

 

“The global passport system took 50 years to develop,” said Drummond Reed, chief trust officer for Evernym. “Even when they wanted to add biometrics to that to make it stronger, that took over a decade to agree on just how you’re going to add a fingerprint or a facial biometric to be verified on a passport. Now, in a very short period of time, we need to produce a digital credential that can be as universally recognized as a passport and it needs an even greater level of privacy because it’s going to be digital.”

 

UK has ruled out so called Covid Passport according to the daily mail.