Restrictions that reduces the FUN

[Jamesatgsu]

The part I don't like about cruising is the crowds. I play in the casino when they first open and it isn't crowded. I avoid the pool and usually the hot tubs. I like to attend some shows, but I've never felt crowded in one (though I've seen them get packed and had to turn around and decide to go to a different showing).

 

The mask isn't a big deal. I wear mine everywhere right now, so I don't see that as some dramatic change.

 

I would be disappointed if we couldn't get off the ship without a Carnival excursion, but not if we can still access the port area with all of the shops and Half Moon Cay.

[Freckle53]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:51 AM, ledges1 said:

With the anticipated return of cruising, excitement is high as are bookings. Many of us remember cruising as it once was. With new restrictions, will this limit the FUN on Carnival and possibly sour the experience until restrictions are lifted. This could take a year or two. Will these possible restrictions limit the FUN.

1. Mask required

2. Limited seating in nightclubs

3. Limited seating in shows

4. Limited seating/games in casino

5. Slow turnover of players in casino resulting in waiting to get a slot machine

6. Carnival only excursions

7. Fewer ports of call due to slow reopening by other countries.                  8. Key West no longer available as a destination and Grand Cayman may limit cruise ship visits.                              

9. Hairy chest contest eliminated.          

10. Lido deck games removed due covid restrictions; putt putt, cornhole, chess, ping pong, ice carving, mixology contest, hot tubs, etc...                               I have no real insight to what the restrictions may be, but in reallity, these could all occur.  Will this effect your experience?

1. Eh, maybe a little annoying to still have to do this on board

2.-5. We don't usually bother with that stuff much so it wouldn't have much, if any, impact on our vacation.

6. This wouldn't necessarily impact our fun, but typically Carnival excursions are higher in price.  We usually just look for a reasonable beach day in a not crowded area.  If Carnival excursions are required I hope they add more choices and some basic/bare bones excursions.

7.-8.  There are other places to go in the meantime.  Those countries absolutely have the right to limit visitors to protect their citizens.  In fact, I respect them more for giving up tourism money to keep themselves safe.

9.-10.  Again, we don't get into any of that stuff on board so it being gone wouldn't bother us.

[jerseyjjs]

12 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

48K people in New York died from Covid in one year... despite being being closed, masked, and fearful.

 

15 hours ago, marshhawk said:

And 33K people in Florida died from Covid in one year. 

 

 

And 54K people have died from in California, the most restrictive and covid-militant state of them all.

[Jobeth66]

23 hours ago, boscobeans said:

NEW C.D.C. RULES as of RIGHT NOW..

 

"Indoor visits or gatherings by fully vaccinated people no longer require social distancing or the wearing of masks..."

 

By Fully Vaccinated they mean 2 weeks after the second dose of Pfizer or Moderna,  or 2 weeks after the Jansen single dose.

 

They also said no need for masks among vaccinated adults and low-risk groups (like children)

 

Fully vaccinated, indoors, in your homes, in small groups, with other fully vaccinated people.

 

Not the same as in large groups in public.

[ProgRockCruiser]

13 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

48K people in New York died from Covid in one year... despite being being closed, masked, and fearful.

And how many would have died if not closed and masked?

 

Oh yeah, you don't know - no-one knows.  But the concern by the much-maligned health departments was that it would have been much worse.

 

And btw, my personal observations are that folks in FL do a good job, in general, of masking up and practicing social distancing.  So despite the lack of state-wide mask mandates, local mandates and business requirements may have resulted in similar practice of safety measures.

 

It does seem to fall apart at social gatherings, like pubs, bars, and restaurants, which therefore might be the main cause of extra-familial transmissions.

[SNJCruisers]

26 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

Fully vaccinated, indoors, in your homes, in small groups, with other fully vaccinated people.

 

Not the same as in large groups in public.

Would you sail on a ship that required all 16+ crew and passengers to be vaccinated?  That is what the Odyssey of the Seas will be requiring when it starts up in Israel.

[Jobeth66]

4 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

Would you sail on a ship that required all 16+ crew and passengers to be vaccinated?  That is what the Odyssey of the Seas will be requiring when it starts up in Israel.

 

Yep.  But I expect there still to be mask requirements and social distancing even with all passengers & crew being vaccinated.  (And I'd prefer ALL pax & crew be vaccinated, if they can't be, they don't sail - whether it's for health reasons or due to the vaccine not being offered because of age.)

 

That being said, we got refunded for our outstanding plans and have no cruises booked.  My husband and I travel with another couple always, and with groups of friends sometimes - and until everyone is comfortable we're not going on another cruise.  I don't expect to be back on a ship for probably at least another year or more.  What we've been doing is driving to other areas, renting private homes and social distancing in a different location.  It works for us.

[travelplus]

Remember it all boils down to doing what we feel comfortable doing. If one is not comfortable to cruise  just yet and take a "wait and see" approach  vs someone who is ready to cruise each person's reasoning is valid.

What I imagine is that we will first see California, Nevada and Arizona Residents cruise out of Long Beach and the same for other cruiseports. Perhaps the CDC will first say only Californians can sail from Long Beach just like they did with Disneyland.

 

I imagine that by January 2022 we will have a better outlook for those who want to travel further away on a Cruise.   I booked my Panorama for October and if it goes fine if not that is fine too. 

 

Also perhaps Travel Agents will be the first group who are solo without Families or their Spouses then we may see them adding Double Occupancy before Families are allowed onboard. 

 

I also assume that there will be some sort of waiver that we all must sign as part of our online checkin absolving the Cruiselines of any risks of catching COVID onboard.   Life is a risk and its us humans who must decide what risks we are and are not willing to take.

Yes those who are vaccinated are at a lower risk to spread and catch COVID at a severe level there are still unknowns with the variants. A variant could make its way to an airplane or cruiseship and the CDC still cannot guarantee a 100 percent COVID free cruise or let alone catching a flu or bad cold as well as the Norovirus.  While the chances are lower than ever with enhanced cleaning you cannot be 100 percent certain.

 

Lets take this example lets say we have people eating indoors  now with the Social Distancing, Handwashing and Mask Wearing along with other protocols and we take this to a cruiseship. A cruiseship dining room is larger than any landbased restaurant for that matter.  You then have servers at the buffet.   Those who are not comfortable dining at a restaurant indoors or out or staying at a hotel will not feel comfortable on a cruise ship. 

 

I would hate to see  people complain once onboard about the restrictive environment and this is why I think Travel Agents  and Travel Researchers like myself would be the perfect people to test out the whole new cruising experience from Embarkation to Disembarkation in return for a free cruise. I know I would love to be a part of the process and know right away there will be problems.   Carnival can test out Faster2theFun and staggered checkin times etc. 

 

We as Travel Agents and researchers would then be better prepared to tell our clients that you must deprogram what you know about cruising and warn them in advance of the strict protocols and how Carnival can disembark you at anytime for not following it and the Agent and cruiseline is not responsible.

 

I am really afraid of some entitled cruisers who would fail to wear a mask or get upset when they cannot serve themselves at the Buffet or reservations to use the pool and for shows.  I myself am used to making reservations using an APP and have no problem doing so but some are on a whim travelers who would be sorely disappointed and try to get  a full refund.

What are your thoughts?

[gtalum]

2 hours ago, jerseyjjs said:

 

 

 

And 54K people have died from in California, the most restrictive and covid-militant state of them all.

 

The most restrictive and covid-militant state of all has been Hawaii, and they also have the lowest death rate per capita.

 

California is in the middle of the pack.

 

As you know, the raw numbers don't mean anything, statistically speaking.  Only per capita rates matter.

[Stick93]

4 hours ago, Cushing985 said:

I truly believe all the cruiselines should only allow passengers who have been vaccinated onboard.  It just makes sense.  If there is a COVID outbreak onboard a future sailing the CDC will use that as an excuse to shut things down again and I can't see them able to survive another.

So if only people on ships a are all vaccinated, wearing masks, social distancing.... Nothing can happen on the ship - 

 

There will be cases no matter what happens and they will have to make decisions what to do when that happens before the ships go out. 

 

Vaccination or not - good luck.

 

These cruises sound like the most fun will be people pointing out who is doing something wrong in the name of being a good citizen. Forget chair hogs and people who remove tips - the mask less person who took down the mask farther than 5 feet from their dinner table or who slowly sipped their martini  will be walking the plank at noon! 

 

[travelplus]

One other thought that crossed my mind perhaps there will be "Cruises to Nowhere" or intra Californian  cruises where Cruiselines will get  a Jones Act Waiver(which may be abolished to allow for US only Cruises) .

So a perfect itinerary could be  San Francisco to Monterey then to Santa Barbara and return.

 

Or Long Beach-San Diego-Catalina-Santa Barbara and return so that if there are any problems god forbid you will be very close to LA and avoid any international repatriation.

The Jones Act needs to be abolished in order to get more cruisers to cruise. Perhaps there will be cruiser who only feel safe doing a intra Florida Cruise from Fort Lauderdale-Miami-Key West back to Fort Lauderdale or Tampa-Port Canaveral- Miami-Key West-Tampa so if they get sick its a very way back to Tampa.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by travelplus

[ultrafighter]

On 3/6/2021 at 6:51 AM, ledges1 said:

                          

9. Hairy chest contest eliminated.   

Man, I wish.  lol

[gtalum]

51 minutes ago, travelplus said:

One other thought that crossed my mind perhaps there will be "Cruises to Nowhere" or intra Californian  cruises where Cruiselines will get  a Jones Act Waiver(which may be abolished to allow for US only Cruises) .

So a perfect itinerary could be  San Francisco to Monterey then to Santa Barbara and return.

 

Or Long Beach-San Diego-Catalina-Santa Barbara and return so that if there are any problems god forbid you will be very close to LA and avoid any international repatriation.

The Jones Act needs to be abolished in order to get more cruisers to cruise. Perhaps there will be cruiser who only feel safe doing a intra Florida Cruise from Fort Lauderdale-Miami-Key West back to Fort Lauderdale or Tampa-Port Canaveral- Miami-Key West-Tampa so if they get sick its a very way back to Tampa.

 

 

 

I am skeptical that any changes will be made to the PVSA.  There's a bill in the House to make a very narrow exception for cruises between Washington and Alaska (and I think there's another in the Senate as well).  If that doesn't get any traction, there's no way that any broader PVSA exemptions or changes will be made.

[Stick93]

Just now, gtalum said:

 

I am skeptical that any changes will be made to the PVSA.  There's a bill in the House to make a very narrow exception for cruises between Washington and Alaska (and I think there's another in the Senate as well).  If that doesn't get any traction, there's no way that any broader PVSA exemptions or changes will be made.

There is no love loss for the cruiselines from the Government - 

They flag their ships out of the country and want special treatment - I sort of agree with the politicians on these issues. I only  wish they looked out for American citizens interests  on other things as well.

[jfunk138]

53 minutes ago, gtalum said:

 

The most restrictive and covid-militant state of all has been Hawaii, and they also have the lowest death rate per capita.

 

California is in the middle of the pack.

 

As you know, the raw numbers don't mean anything, statistically speaking.  Only per capita rates matter.

This view is not supported by facts.  

 

Another study found Virginia was most restrictive, followed by Vermont, DC, HI and then CA.  California is most certainly not "middle of the pack" in terms of restrictions.  And yes when talking about per-capita rates, New York does particularly poorly along with New Jersey, 2 states that are also among the most restrictive.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-coronavirus-restrictions/73818

[d12j28]

55 minutes ago, gtalum said:

 

The most restrictive and covid-militant state of all has been Hawaii, and they also have the lowest death rate per capita.

 

California is in the middle of the pack.

 

As you know, the raw numbers don't mean anything, statistically speaking.  Only per capita rates matter.

Hawaii is also an island and can control travel a lot easier so it's not really a good comparison to other states.

[gtalum]

30 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

This view is not supported by facts.  

 

Another study found Virginia was most restrictive, followed by Vermont, DC, HI and then CA.  California is most certainly not "middle of the pack" in terms of restrictions.  And yes when talking about per-capita rates, New York does particularly poorly along with New Jersey, 2 states that are also among the most restrictive.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-coronavirus-restrictions/73818

 

CA is in the middle of the pack in COVID deaths per capita, despite having several very high population density urban areas.

 

HI was far more restrictive in letting people into the state than any other state.

 

NY and NJ got hit early when nobody knew anything about COVID, it was flowing in unrestricted from Europe, and NY had Cuomo's disastrous nursing home policy.  The restrictions there have worked well since that early time.

Edited March 9, 2021 by gtalum

[jfunk138]

6 minutes ago, gtalum said:

 

CA is in the middle of the pack in COVID deaths per capita, despite having several very high population density urban areas.

Los Angeles density is 8,000 per sq mile, Miami is 13,000 per sq mile, NYC is 27,000 per sq mile.  You aren't going to win a density argument with California.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, gtalum said:

HI was far more restrictive in letting people into the state than any other state.

Because the only way to arrive there is by air.  Other states, like NY, NJ, and MA tried the same travel restrictions, but it ended up only being voluntary for land arrivals.  This seems to support the argument that the only restriction that actually does work is "travel restrictions" which is not good news for anyone hoping to cruise anytime soon.

 

6 minutes ago, gtalum said:

NY and NJ got hit early when nobody knew anything about COVID, it was flowing in unrestricted from Europe, and NY had Cuomo's disastrous nursing home policy.  The restrictions there have worked well since that early time.

New York and New Jersey are highest in the nation currently in daily new cases:

 

https://covidactnow.org/share/28411/?redirectTo=%2Fcompare%2F28411&s=1648587

If this is "working well", I wonder what "working poorly" looks like...

[SNJCruisers]

1 hour ago, travelplus said:

 I think Travel Agents  and Travel Researchers like myself would be the perfect people to test out the whole new cruising experience from Embarkation to Disembarkation in return for a free cruise.

 

1 hour ago, travelplus said:

One other thought that crossed my mind perhaps there will be "Cruises to Nowhere" or intra Californian  cruises where Cruiselines will get  a Jones Act Waiver(which may be abolished to allow for US only Cruises) .

 

44 minutes ago, gtalum said:

 

I am skeptical that any changes will be made to the PVSA.  There's a bill in the House to make a very narrow exception for cruises between Washington and Alaska (and I think there's another in the Senate as well).  If that doesn't get any traction, there's no way that any broader PVSA exemptions or changes will be made.

I am very surprised that an experienced "travel researcher" like Travelplus did not actually know the difference between the Jones Act and the PVSA.  I have to assume then that the free cruise is off the table.

[gtalum]

27 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Los Angeles density is 8,000 per sq mile, Miami is 13,000 per sq mile, NYC is 27,000 per sq mile.  You aren't going to win a density argument with California.  

 

And CA has a lower per capita COVID case and death rate than FL or NY.  As I noted, they're in the middle of the pack.

 

Fair enough on NY/NJ.  I withdraw my claim and I agree they're doing poorly.

Edited March 9, 2021 by gtalum

[jfunk138]

28 minutes ago, gtalum said:

 

And CA has a lower per capita COVID case and death rate than FL or NY.  As I noted, they're in the middle of the pack.

 

Fair enough on NY/NJ.  I withdraw my claim and I agree they're doing poorly.

Agree CA is middle of the pack on "outcome" but it is high on restriction.  FL is middle of the pack on "outcome" as well but low on restriction.  It's worth noting density is much higher in FL as well, both on the state overall and the large city levels.  

[squierjosh]

Seriously people, if you don't think you'll have fun, don't go. And don't worry about people who think they're still capable of having fun without cramming into a bar or watching a hairy chest contest. I doubt masks will be required if you're outside on the lido deck or on a chair. Maybe whne you're in line for the restaurant or in the lounge watching a show. That's no different than being on land right now.

[charmed101]

Thinking about cruising these days gives me a headache !!

Wear a mask they say, 6 feet they say, lord, the poor boat will have three groups on board,,,,  on one side will be the ones with a six pack under their arm glaring at you, on the other side will be the ones hiding in there hazmat suit with binoculars trying to catch that elusive human without a mask on, then the third group will be hiding in there room believing they are having a blast !!!

Today, in between the 4 meals and 3  naps that I have daily, I had a nightmare,  I was dreaming that I was on the first cruise ship that sailed,  I woke up early with a smile on my face and headed for my balcony,,,,,,  dam,  someone has put a book and a pair of sandles on my lounger on my balcony!!!!!  I screamed and fell off the chesterfield and hit my head on the coffee table, yes,,,,

 Thinking about cruising these days gives me a headache !!

[Stick93]

9 hours ago, charmed101 said:

Thinking about cruising these days gives me a headache !!

Wear a mask they say, 6 feet they say, lord, the poor boat will have three groups on board,,,,  on one side will be the ones with a six pack under their arm glaring at you, on the other side will be the ones hiding in there hazmat suit with binoculars trying to catch that elusive human without a mask on, then the third group will be hiding in there room believing they are having a blast !!!

Today, in between the 4 meals and 3  naps that I have daily, I had a nightmare,  I was dreaming that I was on the first cruise ship that sailed,  I woke up early with a smile on my face and headed for my balcony,,,,,,  dam,  someone has put a book and a pair of sandles on my lounger on my balcony!!!!!  I screamed and fell off the chesterfield and hit my head on the coffee table, yes,,,,

 Thinking about cruising these days gives me a headache !!

Hahhah

Just thinking about all the fun - you actually have the right picture of what cruising will look like.

[Doggielover68]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:51 AM, ledges1 said:

With the anticipated return of cruising, excitement is high as are bookings. Many of us remember cruising as it once was. With new restrictions, will this limit the FUN on Carnival and possibly sour the experience until restrictions are lifted. This could take a year or two. Will these possible restrictions limit the FUN.

1. Mask required

2. Limited seating in nightclubs

3. Limited seating in shows

4. Limited seating/games in casino

5. Slow turnover of players in casino resulting in waiting to get a slot machine

6. Carnival only excursions

7. Fewer ports of call due to slow reopening by other countries.                  8. Key West no longer available as a destination and Grand Cayman may limit cruise ship visits.                              

9. Hairy chest contest eliminated.          

10. Lido deck games removed due covid restrictions; putt putt, cornhole, chess, ping pong, ice carving, mixology contest, hot tubs, etc...                               I have no real insight to what the restrictions may be, but in reallity, these could all occur.  Will this effect your experience?

This is the ultimate list of first world problems. "I'm going on a luxury vacation that many people would never be able to afford and I have to wear a piece of cloth on my face. Poor me."

 

I get it, masks and restrictions are annoying. My glasses fog up, my ears hurt, I have acne, etc. However, I would gladly deal with those minor inconveniences to be able to look at something other than my house. For the past year, I leave my house only to get groceries. In 2019, I spent 4 weeks out of the country on vacation. I'm ready to go just about anywhere at this point.