Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[balcony bound]

8 minutes ago, BroadwayGirl said:

As it stands now, mixed cruises require masks on everyone in doors if you are in a mixed venue unless Carnival wants to police vaxxed vrs not vaxxed. And we know the honor system isn’t working in stores.  That’s the main reason they went with the 95% vaxxed cruises.  The cdc still hasn’t dropped the masking guidance for the unvaxxed on land….If I’m wearing a cdc hat , I believe they push for that to stay in their new Cso.  That forces the vaxxed issue on cruise ships.   If I see the cdc giving in on anything easily, it’s the under 12 set getting on board with negative tests and not capping those numbers at 5%

Um, you might be mixing up your cruiselines with those guidelines.

 

There will be no new CSO.  There will be unbinding guidelines.

[balcony bound]

Just now, TNcruising02 said:

I've always used hand sanitizer and washed my hands long before this pandemic.  I'm not concerned about touching things because I can wash my hands. I can understand that some people are still nervous, but flying and spending time at the airport or going to an amusement park will have a much bigger risk than cruising with tested people.  But perception is reality for people.  It's good that we are free to choose the risks we want to take for our own health.

TN, try Zoono.  Hand sanitizer that doesn't wash off, good for about 24 hours.  You can still wash hands, and have the protection of the hand sanitizer without re-applying.  Certified germaphone here LOL.  I've taken it on all cruises since I started using it.

 

 

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, balcony bound said:

TN, try Zoono.  Hand sanitizer that doesn't wash off, good for about 24 hours.  You can still wash hands, and have the protection of the hand sanitizer without re-applying.  Certified germaphone here LOL.  I've taken it on all cruises since I started using it.

 

 

I will look that up!  My husband and I travel a lot, so I am used to being careful.  We are vaccinated for pretty much everything to reduce our odds of getting sick. I always wash my hands or use sanitizer after handling public utensils or condiment containers. 

 I've never heard of Zoono, but will look it up.

[kilkoyne]

35 minutes ago, AnitaVacation said:

Bottom line for me....I am not willing to have my vacation interrupted or restricted because someone didn't want to get vaccinated (or couldn't or whatever).  When I step on a cruise ship, I do not want to see mask mandates, social distancing or any other restrictions regarding covid.

 

The new strains of the virus are making it more dangerous and more contagious to those that have not been vaccinated.  Allowing unvaxxed people onboard is just a recipe for disaster.  If cruiselines are allowing unvaxxed, I will watch from the sidelines, plenty of other places I can spend my vacation money.

 

Cruise Norwegian if you want to vacation. They're aiming for 100% vaxx.

Edited June 20, 2021 by kilkoyne

[AnitaVacation]

35 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 I can understand that some people are still nervous, but flying and spending time at the airport or going to an amusement park will have a much bigger risk than cruising with tested people.  But perception is reality for people.  It's good that we are free to choose the risks we want to take for our own health.

I think you are missing my point.  Flying, airport, amusement park....a few hours vs an entire week.  If an unvaccinated person catches the virus at one of these places, it has little effect on me.  If a group of people on a cruise ship contracts it, it's bound to effect EVERYONE in some way (quarantines, masks, distance).  Personally, I don't want to find out.

[AtSeaWithChris]

2 minutes ago, AnitaVacation said:

I think you are missing my point.  Flying, airport, amusement park....a few hours vs an entire week.  If an unvaccinated person catches the virus at one of these places, it has little effect on me.  If a group of people on a cruise ship contracts it, it's bound to effect EVERYONE in some way (quarantines, masks, distance).  Personally, I don't want to find out.

Well the Celebrity cruise out of St Marteen had positive results and they handled it. Everyone else had fun. 

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Well the Celebrity cruise out of St Marteen had positive results and they handled it. Everyone else had fun. 

Exactly.  Quarantine the people who test positive and move on with the cruise. Short cruises should not result in huge outbreaks because of the incubation period.  If someone tests negative before boarding, it would be several days before they would possibly test positive at the earliest.  I can see people being concerned on a very long cruise, but short cruises should have very little issues and those issues can easily be controlled.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[Joebucks]

3 minutes ago, AnitaVacation said:

I think you are missing my point.  Flying, airport, amusement park....a few hours vs an entire week.  If an unvaccinated person catches the virus at one of these places, it has little effect on me.  If a group of people on a cruise ship contracts it, it's bound to effect EVERYONE in some way (quarantines, masks, distance).  Personally, I don't want to find out.

 

I keep reading posts like this like it is some kind of proven logic. People act like infections in any other scenario just disappear like a fart in the wind because people cycling in and out is somehow safer. At any given time, anywhere, you are at risk of being near someone with COVID. It doesn't matter if you are with them a few hours or a week. Does anyone understand how a virus works?

 

If anything, a controlled environment could be safer. They are able to test and monitor things a bit different than some other activities.

 

I know we are at page 23, so the original message may have been lost. Please refer to the legal ruling that the CDC has presented no data that cruises need this special fear. Just because you read a story in the past that 5% of people were sick on a cruise does not mean that 5% of people aren't sick in other scenarios today.

[kilkoyne]

18 minutes ago, AnitaVacation said:

I think you are missing my point.  Flying, airport, amusement park....a few hours vs an entire week.  If an unvaccinated person catches the virus at one of these places, it has little effect on me.  If a group of people on a cruise ship contracts it, it's bound to effect EVERYONE in some way (quarantines, masks, distance).  Personally, I don't want to find out.

 

Cruise Norwegian.....100% vaxx

[broberts]

11 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

Well the Celebrity cruise out of St Marteen had positive results and they handled it. Everyone else had fun. 

 

The only reason for the positive results was the testing required to return to port/US.

 

I don't think it a stretch to imagine that only the very sick would go anywhere near the medical facilities. So the only testing that is likely to be done is a day or so before the end of the cruise. 

 

 

[sm3ds]

1 hour ago, AnitaVacation said:

 

I agree, this is great!!  It is also (for me anyway) quite different from cruising.  I love that I can go to the store and not wear a mask...but I also am very mindful of not touching things (handrails, door knobs, etc) and keeping a distance as best as possible and having my hand sanitizer handy as needed..I am fully vaccinated and my concern level is low....(also, I am not spending 7 days there)

Getting on a cruise ship, where everyone is touching everything (handrails, elevator buttons, tables, etc) is quite a different scenario.  Again, the concern level for myself is low....but the disaster rate for unvaxxed is high....therefore, interrupting my vacation....

I think you need to take your own advice and go outside. You've basically posted the same thing three times. 

[caniuseit]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

I keep saying that because that is what Carnival is stating in their emails regarding July and August cruises.  I am not just making it up.  They state that they are cruising with vaccinated cruisers and will allow a small number of exemptions for children under 12.  Anyone is who not vaccinated or cruising with a child who is not vaccinated can fill out an exemption request form, get a refund, or rebook.  They will only approve requests up to less than 5% to allow for errors.  That's what Carnival is stating in their communication.

 

 

If you are unvaccinated and denied exemption, you cannot sail

 

Tell me how this is not clearly against Florida law.

or, 

Is CCL saying “ I am not mandating that you show me proof of vaccine, but if you don’t, I won’t let you cruise”

 

you think that is legal under the new Florida law?

Edited June 20, 2021 by caniuseit

[ray98]

LOL....where are all the legal experts who have posted nothing but snide comments about FL since this started saying DeSantis would be laughed out of court?

[sc4125]

7 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

You do realize being vaccinated that you can test positive as well? 

 

The Judge's ruling is far more in favor of going back to normal cruising than they were before the ruling. Whatever was going to happen on the cruise prior to Friday night is what it will be after as well. There will probably even be less restrictions. Carnival's biggest issue was the 5% unvaxxed. It is only my opinion, but I don't think CCL will change its current path for July and August except allowing more children under 12 onboard. I think 12 and older will still need to be vaccinated. All passengers who do not voluntarily provide the information agree to accept the cost of testing at least 2x onboard (mid cruise and debarkation). Along with that, provide negative test 72 hours before embarkation. 

Yes I know that I could test positive, but most likely I wouldn't be symptomatic.  I was referring to the fact that no one who is vaccinated would be tested from what I understand.   I just want to enjoy the cruise without masking and social distancing - suppose to be one of the perks for getting vaccinated. 

 

My other fear is what steps will be taken if several of those unvaxed test positive mid cruise.  At this point I'm going to assume that CCL will require vaccines.  I have travel insurance so will deal with whether I will cancel as soon as the decision is made one way or the other.

[AnitaVacation]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

I keep reading posts like this like it is some kind of proven logic. People act like infections in any other scenario just disappear like a fart in the wind because people cycling in and out is somehow safer. At any given time, anywhere, you are at risk of being near someone with COVID. It doesn't matter if you are with them a few hours or a week. Does anyone understand how a virus works?

 

If anything, a controlled environment could be safer. They are able to test and monitor things a bit different than some other activities.

 

I know we are at page 23, so the original message may have been lost. Please refer to the legal ruling that the CDC has presented no data that cruises need this special fear. Just because you read a story in the past that 5% of people were sick on a cruise does not mean that 5% of people aren't sick in other scenarios today.

Again, missing the point.  I honestly am not concerned about my own safety, I am fully vaccinated and pretty confident with moving around feely, even among non vaxxed persons.  

 

The point is....I do not want my vacation interrupted or inconvenienced by an outbreak.  I do not want any restrictions on my cruise. 

 

Someone responded earlier regarding the RC cruise and positive cases.  So, those passengers were required to fully vaxxed, so even though 2 people tested positive and were quarantined, it did not effect the rest of the passengers.  Now, if passengers are not required to be vaxxed, and that happened, what do you think would happen next??  Have you ever been on a cruise ship with a norovirus outbreak, it's not fun.

 

ps...I have been outside, but I am also busy prepping Father's Day dinner and jumping over here between steps....

[AtSeaWithChris]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

The only reason for the positive results was the testing required to return to port/US.

 

I don't think it a stretch to imagine that only the very sick would go anywhere near the medical facilities. So the only testing that is likely to be done is a day or so before the end of the cruise. 

 

 

Nope, it wasn't the test to return home, at least I'm not aware of another positive result, it was at the start of the cruise  

[MrMarc]

2 minutes ago, ray98 said:

LOL....where are all the legal experts who have posted nothing but snide comments about FL since this started saying DeSantis would be laughed out of court?

We all believed that based on what we knew, the CDC was within it's delegated powers.  The interesting thing to me is that the decision seems very inconsistent.  On one hand the CDC's actions are unconstitutional, on the other hand if the Judge thinks they are more reasonable,  they become constitutional?  He went far deeper into the subjects than I am willing to.  So at this point, we might have been wrong but within the next 30 days it might change so that we were right.  We actually know less about what our cruises might look like than we did last week though.  And last week we didn't know.

[TNcruising02]

31 minutes ago, caniuseit said:

 

 

If you are unvaccinated and denied exemption, you cannot sail

 

Tell me how this is not clearly against Florida law.

or, 

Is CCL saying “ I am not mandating that you show me proof of vaccine, but if you don’t, I won’t let you cruise”

 

you think that is legal under the new Florida law?

 

I am just repeating what Carnival has communicated to me regarding my August cruise.  All I can do is guess how they are getting around the law, but I doubt you want to read my guess. LOL

[arkaine23]

32 minutes ago, AnitaVacation said:

Again, missing the point.  I honestly am not concerned about my own safety, I am fully vaccinated and pretty confident with moving around feely, even among non vaxxed persons.  

 

The point is....I do not want my vacation interrupted or inconvenienced by an outbreak.  I do not want any restrictions on my cruise. 

 

Someone responded earlier regarding the RC cruise and positive cases.  So, those passengers were required to fully vaxxed, so even though 2 people tested positive and were quarantined, it did not effect the rest of the passengers.  Now, if passengers are not required to be vaxxed, and that happened, what do you think would happen next??  Have you ever been on a cruise ship with a norovirus outbreak, it's not fun.

 

ps...I have been outside, but I am also busy prepping Father's Day dinner and jumping over here between steps....

Contact tracing caused other passengers to be tested and quarantined to their rooms . while waiting for test results.  Its just a day.   Would you be happy getting tested and quarantining for a day?

 

If it was more widespread, the testing/quarantining could've been longer, or cruise might have ended.

[caniuseit]

4 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 

I am just repeating what Carnival has communicated to me regarding my August cruise.  All I can do is guess how they are getting around the law, but I doubt you want to read my guess. LOL

That’s reasonable. I thought I was missing something.  
 

With all the talk about the CDC overstepping their authority, it appears that the cruise line don’t put much stock in this Florida law and appear to just be ignoring the spirit of it. 

 

if DeSantis is smart he will just let them skirt the law and not try to impose the fine.  I doubt his law would withstand a court challenge.

 

Thanks for the clarification 

[TNcruising02]

2 minutes ago, caniuseit said:

That’s reasonable. I thought I was missing something.  
 

With all the talk about the CDC overstepping their authority, it appears that the cruise line don’t put much stock in this Florida law and appear to just be ignoring the spirit of it. 

 

if DeSantis is smart he will just let them skirt the law and not try to impose the fine.  I doubt his law would withstand a court challenge.

 

Thanks for the clarification 

Under the executive order, businesses are still permitted to institute covid-19 screening protocols in accordance with state and federal law to protect public health.  Maybe that is Carnival's way around the law.  They must have figured something out since they continue to state July and August cruises are vaccinated with less than 5% exempted.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[AtSeaWithChris]

5 minutes ago, caniuseit said:

That’s reasonable. I thought I was missing something.  
 

With all the talk about the CDC overstepping their authority, it appears that the cruise line don’t put much stock in this Florida law and appear to just be ignoring the spirit of it. 

 

if DeSantis is smart he will just let them skirt the law and not try to impose the fine.  I doubt his law would withstand a court challenge.

 

Thanks for the clarification 

The Florida law was never about cruising. It was and is about telling the people that want a vaccine passport to stuff it. If the cruise lines can skirt around it Florida will do nothing about it unless a whiney baby that wants a vaccine passport has some political power.

[TNcruising02]

This is a link to the executive order.  Some may think it is pandering and others believe it is anti-discrimination based on private health information.  Since there is no federal vaccine passport, each state gets to decide what is best for their residents. That is a good thing.  People who want more government control are free to live in the strictest states.  People who want less are free to live in states without strict restrictions.  Freedom to choose is a good thing.

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[AtSeaWithChris]

If the judge's ruling stands I see this as a way for the cruise lines to pretty much open up as business as usual. With the caveats that 1, Carnival likes to say we are abiding by the CDC reccommendations and 2, they have already passed final payment and had to cancel people's bookings for the July cruises. Do you think Carnival would say  Oh hey, you can cruise after all or wait until September since they already played out plans through August on what protocols1? Either way will make some people angry. I myself am pro anything that takes us back to normality.

[lobster1313]

6 minutes ago, caniuseit said:

You are correct.  It’s not about cruising.  It’s about DeSantis pandering to his base for political gains

 

if it was truly about the overstep of “vaccine passports” they would have addressed schools also.  
 

look below.  Florida has no problem requiring a whole host of vaccines for lots of activities.  Yup. Pure pandering. 
 

oh.  And there are plenty of “whiny babies” on all sides of this issue

 

 

http://www.floridahealth.gov/programs-and-services/immunization/children-and-adolescents/school-immunization-requirements/index.html

Vaccinations for schools has been accepted because of a Supreme Court decision 100 years ago but it has never been for a business to require them.