What's the precise definition of "Transatlantic Crossing"?

[bluemarble]

Here’s a weighty question [OK not really] for your consideration.

 

As some of you may recall, I keep a tally of the number of transatlantic crossings QM2 has done each year. I started that count in response to a question on this forum several years ago as to whether the number of QM2 crossings has been decreasing in recent years. With the unfortunate exception of the past two years, the answer to that question has been ‘no’, but I digress.

 

Now that QM2’s replacement voyages for the cancelled 2022 world voyage have been announced, I've been counting the number of crossings QM2 is scheduled to do during 2022. But I soon ran into an uncertainty about what exactly counts as a "Transatlantic Crossing".

 

QM2 is scheduled to do a roundtrip cruise from Southampton to the Caribbean on Jan 14-Feb 11, 2022. That cruise makes no calls on the mainland of either North or South America. I believe this situation is a first for QM2.

 

My question is this:

Does QM2’s voyage from Southampton to Barbados (Jan 14-Jan 25, 2022) count as a westbound transatlantic crossing and does QM2’s return voyage from Tortola to Southampton (Jan 31-Feb 11, 2022) count as an eastbound transatlantic crossing?

 

Depending on the answer to that question QM2 is now scheduled for either 24 or 26 transatlantic crossings during 2022.

 

This has significant ramifications [OK once again not really] for that Caribbean cruise. If those segments count as crossings, then the Jan 14-Jan 25, 2022 westbound segment from Southampton to Barbados will be QM2’s 350th transatlantic crossing. If not, that honor will go to the next conventional westbound crossing from Southampton to New York on Feb 15-Feb 22, 2022.

[Host Hattie]

Well she is crossing the Atlantic so I'd say yes 😀

[exlondoner]

I'd agree. Isn't that roughly what C. Columbus did?

[navybankerteacher]

I would say that if someone can board a ship on either the east or west side of the Atlantic and get off on the other side, that person has made a trans-Atlantic crossing - and the ship that carried him/her made the crossing as well.  If a round trip cruise were involved - with no one being able to wind up on a different side of the Atlantic from where he/she boarded, - then I would not call it a crossing.

[Pear Carr]

I would say this raises questions for the 14.11.21 and 15.12.21 transatlantic/Caribbean crossings, one of which I am booked on.  Given on going uncertainty with regard to fluctuating COVID cases are Cunard deliberately missing the stop in New York in January/February and where does that leave us?

[Host Hattie]

I'm not drawing that conclusion at all, it's good to have a choice for those of us who prefer a slightly shorter trip with less time spent in the North in January.

It's probably still too long a trip for us but we can dream !

[ExArkie]

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss philosophical concepts of great importance with virtually no consequences.

 

If one were to accept the Web site on which one is posting the question to be a definitive authority on the meaning, then the answer is that any transit of that ocean counts as a transatlantic crossing. 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=3133

 

The first sentence is, "A transatlantic cruise is any sailing that crosses the Atlantic Ocean."  (Now, we can debate "cruise" versus "crossing.")

 

Also, agreement comes from Merriam-Webster ("relating to or involving crossing the Atlantic Ocean") and Macmillan ("a transatlantic flight or trip involves crossing the Atlantic Ocean"). No mention of connecting to the major land mass of North and South America.

 

Side question, if one were to require transatlantic crossing have one end on those two continental land masses, does starting or ending in Southampton count as transatlantic, since it is on an island not connected to the major land mass of the European continent?

 

How much of the Atlantic must be crossed to qualify? Sailing Southampton to Bermuda does not completely transit the ocean, but it gets most of it. Does that qualify as a crossing? To me, if the ship crosses the midpoint of the Ocean (roughly 30 degrees west longitude, if I recall anywhere close to the right numbers) and continues past it to another port without turning around, that qualifies as a transatlantic crossing. So, Southampton to Bermuda is. New York to Bermuda is not. By that, your crossing ending in the Caribbean would definitely qualify.

 

Perhaps the answer should be whether Cunard defines transatlantic crossing in the same way. If you go to their US Web site and click on "Transatlantic" on the home page, it takes you to a page that has the title (look at the browser tab for the title, it doesn't actually appear on the page) "The Iconic Transatlantic Crossing." This, they define specifically to be Southampton to New York.

https://www.cunard.com/en-us/cruise-destinations/transatlantic-cruises (By the way, that page calls it a "Transatlantic Cruise" further complicating the nomenclature.)

 

If I may be permitted to propose such, we may define two types of transatlantic crossings, (1) the regular type, where one starts on one side of the ocean and ends on the other, which can be achieved with any two ports so long as the Atlantic Ocean lies between them...and does not necessarily have to be on Cunard (on this board, am I allowed to suggest other cruise lines may exist?), and (2) the Cunard Iconic Transatlantic Crossing, which is only between Southampton and New York and only on Cunard (clicking the link to a list of crossings includes one each for QE and QV, so it is not exclusive to QM2).

 

That link I mentioned above from the "Iconic Transatlantic Crossing" page to the list of crossings, includes QV next August going Barcelona to Fort Lauderdale. Obviously, this violates the definition that Cunard themselves offered as being only between Southampton and New York. Although, to be fair, the link does not specify that the list is "iconic," only "transatlantic." 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lissie]

Well I've been saying we're doing a  Panama canal crossing and a trans Atlantic . We're on  the QE July/Aug 2022  SF-Florida-Bermuda-Maderia-Cadiz - seems to  get us from one side of the Atlantic to the other... 

[bluemarble]

Thanks for the comments so far concerning this "philosophical concept of great importance with virtually no consequences."

 

I tend to agree that a voyage from England to the Americas (of which the Caribbean is generally considered a part) ought to count as a transatlantic crossing. For my purposes in tallying crossings, I suppose it ultimately will come down to whether Cunard have counted those segments between Southampton and the Caribbean as transatlantic crossings when it comes time for them to announce another milestone crossing for QM2 such as her 400th.

 

Cunard have adjusted how they've determined QM2's milestone crossings in the past. There are several articles from 2008 discussing how the 21 September westbound crossing that year was QM2's 100th transatlantic crossing.

 

That was indeed QM2's 100th "iconic" crossing between Southampton and New York, but it was actually her 104th transatlantic crossing overall. What hadn't been taken into account were four crossings between Southampton and Fort Lauderdale. QM2's first crossing in January 2004 was one of those, from Southampton to Fort Lauderdale via the Canaries and the Caribbean (or I suppose we might say that first crossing was technically from the Canaries to the Caribbean).

 

The necessary adjustments were made by the time of QM2's 200th crossing which was counted as the 6 July 2013 eastbound crossing. Subsequently, the 25 November 2015 eastbound crossing was counted as her 250th crossing and the 3 June 2018 westbound crossing was counted as her 300th crossing. Those dates take into account the four crossings to/from Fort Lauderdale.

 

But has another crossing been omitted?

 

QM2 did an eastbound crossing from New York before commencing her 2010 world voyage from Southampton. Her 2010 world voyage ended with another eastbound crossing from New York. But she didn't cross the international dateline during that voyage. After sailing no further east than New Zealand, QM2 headed west to Cape Town. She then sailed from Cape Town to Rio de Janeiro (via Saint Helena) before continuing on to New York via Barbados and Fort Lauderdale.

 

It seems to me the segment of QM2's 2010 world voyage from Cape Town to Rio de Janeiro ought to count as a transatlantic crossing. That's a crossing of the South Atlantic to be sure, but that shouldn't matter. Yet, if I count it, then all those milestone crossings after 2010 are off by one. I haven't included that Cape Town-Rio de Janeiro segment in the tallies of QM2 crossings I've posted on this forum in the past because of the discrepancy it creates with the dates of the milestone crossings as counted by Cunard.

 

Oh, such epic concerns! At least this does give us something new to discuss until QM2 resumes sailing again, doesn't it?