Encore back to yellow: CDC started investigation?

[hallux]

31 minutes ago, ilovetotravel1977 said:

Are you referring to Tony of La Lida Loca?  He isn't a travel agent, his wife is though.

 

27 minutes ago, zerooveride said:

I believe they are

Yes I was.  I believe TA and YouTube are their primary income, and I would consider him a TA even if his wife does most of the work since they are associated...

[ilovetotravel1977]

1 minute ago, hallux said:

 

Yes I was.  I believe TA and YouTube are their primary income, and I would consider him a TA even if his wife does most of the work since they are associated...

But he isn't a TA, and he makes sure people know that.  I have posted links to his videos on here before without repercussions. 

[zerooveride]

Another person in our FB group tested positive as well. That’s 2 positives from over there and I know of another person who was sick but subsequently tested negative. If 2 out of 181 members got it then that’s a little over 1%. 

[hallux]

1 hour ago, zerooveride said:

If 2 out of 181 members got it then that’s a little over 1%.

Of the FB group, sure.  Of the entire ship, not even close.  Have to wonder, though, if the people in the FB group had met then there's the possibility one got it from the other, making it such that extrapolating that group to the entire ship might not be the course to take.  Additionally - if that ship DID have nearly 2% of passengers test positive that would probably be close to 40 people, Carnival had a ship with 27 positive cases and it was all over the news while there has been NOTHING about the Encore thus far...

[zerooveride]

1 minute ago, hallux said:

Of the FB group, sure.  Of the entire ship, not even close.  Have to wonder, though, if the people in the FB group had met then there's the possibility one got it from the other, making it such that extrapolating that group to the entire ship might not be the course to take.  Additionally - if that ship DID have nearly 2% of passengers test positive that would probably be close to 40 people, Carnival had a ship with 27 positive cases and it was all over the news while there has been NOTHING about the Encore thus far...

The Facebook group did not participate in the meet and greet. There was a dispute between the two groups and there was only a little overlap. 
 

I do think I figured out the exposure notice. Another person from Colorado also got the notice and the only ones lace we overlapped was at the free cruise bingo. We didn’t sit next to anyone at bingo but Bluetooth, which the exposure sensing uses, could have picked up someone anywhere in the theater. 

[alohayall]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:32 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

@aubreyc1988 I've read that from the CDC but I still have questions. First: I would think the crew would be least likely to test positive since the crew is currently not being allowed off the ship ever, so they are the only ones truly in the bubble. Second: Are you of the belief that if a ship is yellow Covid has been confirmed? I thought it meant that it was only suspected and it could turn out to be a CLI? Although I just read that there were people in hazmat suits on deck 10 of Encore yesterday, so I suppose that is leading us to believe a confirmed case in a passenger? 

 

(I reread what I wrote; it is not meant to sound condescending. Just some PSA info.)

The crew is exposed to people all day.  And new people every week from all across the country.  A pretty permeable bubble.

COVID vaccinations:  they don’t keep you from being exposed to the virus.  They don’t keep you from having symptoms.

 

The goal is to reduce your viral load and to keep your body from being overwhelmed when exposed. >> Less severity of illness and less risk of death. And no guarantee of either protection - everybody’s immune system functions / responds differently.

 

And if fully vaccinated = fully protected were true,  we wouldn’t have to be tested at the port (or this new 36-hour pre-cruise test.  I’m pretty sure it’s not because they think we faked our vaccine records).

Edited September 2, 2021 by alohayall

[alohayall]

Flow charts can be a great (and an easy read).  It doesn’t take much to lose green status.  As pointed out by another poster, it only takes missing daily submission of data.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by alohayall

[ChiefMateJRK]

3 hours ago, alohayall said:

Flow charts can be a great (and an easy read).  It doesn’t take much to lose green status.  As pointed out by another poster, it only takes missing daily submission of data.

 

That chart makes absolutely no sense.

[BermudaBound2014]

@alohayall thank you for taking the time to share your interpretation and provide the chart. We have discussed both here at length many times. I did a poor job of explaining that my confusion isn't with the color chart itself, my issue with the CDC color coding system has always been trying to understand rational for the failure to to clearly distinguish between Covid and CLI. Without that, the information is vague and left to interpretation. 

 

Regardless, in this case we are absolutely certain Covid is onboard the Encore due to the contract tracing notification kindly supplied to us by  @zerooveride

 

 

I suspect that for many people this was expected. Perhaps not so quickly.

 I think it is rational to conclude that Covid has been onboard the Encore within days/weeks of it's first sailing. Yet, based on very heated conversations which have taken place here on CC over the last 5 months, there is a vocal group that was certain NCL's 100% vaccination policy would keep Covid off the ship. It won't. It can't. 

 

In addition, the Gem went orange on it's first sailing. Of the big three, the CDC is tracing 24 cruises sailing with passengers. Of the 24 cruises, only one ship remains green (Serenade of the seas). Given how contagious Delta is, I have concluded that the majority of these reports are, in fact, due to covid. Others will  conclude differently. 

 

Based on current evidence, my belief is that covid will likely be on board most (all) sailings for the foreseeable future. In terms of exposure, I don't believe cruising is significantly safer than a visit to the local Walgreens to obtain the test needed to board. If you are someone who actively seeks to avoid being exposed to covid, cruising might not be your best choice for vacation at this time.

 

With that said, I'd cruise tomorrow and not give it a second thought.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/cruise-ship-color-status.html

 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[yankprintster]

7 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

That chart makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah, I'm more confused with the chart than without it.  Before, people mentioned that yellow was worse than orange (which isn't the normal way colors are denoted), but the chart seems to imply orange is worse.  It looks like Orange and Red are the only colors that mean COVID was on-board, whereas yellow means they are still waiting for the tests to find out.  But I could be wrong.

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, yankprintster said:

Yeah, I'm more confused with the chart than without it.  Before, people mentioned that yellow was worse than orange (which isn't the normal way colors are denoted), but the chart seems to imply orange is worse.  It looks like Orange and Red are the only colors that mean COVID was on-board, whereas yellow means they are still waiting for the tests to find out.  But I could be wrong.

 

That's wrong because @zerooveride received a notice that (s)he was in close contact with someone on Encore that is positive for covid. So we know for certain Covid was onboard Encore when the Encore was listed as yellow.

 

Given how contagious the delta variant is, I don't believe any ship is without covid, and if they are they won't remain that way for long. They simply can't keep covid off the ships and this has been demonstrated time and time again since sailing resumed.  Therefore; I believe it's reasonably logical to conclude that any color other than green means actual covid. If that bothers you, it maybe time to cash in on your insurance. If it doesn't bother you, have a great cruise!!! 

 

 

[zerooveride]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

That's wrong because @zerooveride received a notice that (s)he was in close contact with someone on Encore that is positive for covid. So we know for certain Covid was onboard Encore when the Encore was listed as yellow.

 

Given how contagious the delta variant is, I don't believe any ship is without covid, and if they are they won't remain that way for long. They simply can't keep covid off the ships and this has been demonstrated time and time again since sailing resumed.  Therefore; I believe it's reasonably logical to conclude that any color other than green means actual covid. If that bothers you, it maybe time to cash in on your insurance. If it doesn't bother you, have a great cruise!!! 

 

 

Both me, my wife and another cruiser on our FB group received the same Exposure Alert. The only time we were in the same place on that date was when we were at the Free Cruise Bingo, but were on different sides of the theater. That means that someone in the theater subsequently tested positive.

 

Also, at least 3 people (with tests pending for a couple that have symptoms) have come back positive post-cruise for COVID.

 

Then on 08/31/2021 NCL informed currently on-board passengers that a number of crew were positive for COVID. The general rule of thumb I have read is that the incubation period is about 5-8 days (general being the key word, not absolute). That period would put the crew contracting it from our cruise, not the current one. 

 

COVID was onboard our sailing and I believe it is probably a lot more than what people on here and Facebook are saying as those two groups are a minority in relation to the number of people sailing. 

 

The one thing that irks me a bit is if NCL knows that crew members on 08/31 were positive, why haven't they done contract tracing with the passengers that disembarked on the 28th? If the crew tested positive 08/31 then the passengers that came into contact with them on our sailing were most likely exposed. 

 

I did expect a higher risk of getting COVID in such a congregate setting. I'll be honest, I didn't expect so many foreign travelers on our cruise to be honest and especially not one from a place that is a COVID hotspot (to say the least).

 

To be truthful, NCL has dropped the ball by NOT being transparent to us while on the cruise. If there was a positive case early on in the cruise (which there most likely was) they should have told us so that if we wished we could have taken additional precautions. 

[zerooveride]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

That's wrong because @zerooveride received a notice that (s)he was in close contact with someone on Encore that is positive for covid.

It's a He

[geckobabe]

@zerooveride, which tracking app are you using. I don't currently have any on my phone and would like to get one. Thanks!

[ChiefMateJRK]

8 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

there is a vocal group that was certain NCL's 100% vaccination policy would keep Covid off the ship.

Are you sure about that?  I don't recall a single post where somebody claimed that 100% vaccinated would eliminate all Covid cases.

[wacruiselover]

I just received this from our TA:

 

We are writing to advise you that a small number of our fully vaccinated crew tested positive for COVID-19 onboard our August 28, 2021 Norwegian Encore voyage. Most of these crew members were asymptomatic, and per our well-established Health & Safety protocols, they are isolated onboard for 7 days and are being carefully monitored by our medical team. All close contacts were isolated as well and remained so until they tested negative.

All guests and crew on board are 100% fully vaccinated and we take great care in maintaining a safe and clean environment onboard all our ships. We have further enhanced our already rigorous Health & Safety protocols, and, as always, we strongly encourage you to wash your hands often and frequently use the many hand sanitizers available throughout the ship. Furthermore, we strongly encourage you to wear a mask, especially while indoors, and ask you to maintain social distancing where feasible.

Norwegian Cruise Line is providing you with the choice to keep, change, or cancel your upcoming reservation. Guests that opt to cancel will receive either a monetary refund of the fare paid or a future cruise credit (FCC) worth 110% of the cruise fare paid. The FCC will be valid for one year from issued date. Please follow the steps below based on which option you would like to take advantage of:

1) Keep your existing active: - No action needed.
2) Cancel your cruise: - Fill out this form (link) with your choice of reimbursement.
3) Modify your ship/sail date.

 

After 2 years of being land-bound and 3 cruises cancelled during that time, we are going to be on the Encore this Saturday regardless. We just got our "recommended" 72-hour PCR test results back (taken 9/1) and they wee negative. Whoo Hooo! Alaska here we come!

[peeames]

We were packed, tested and ready for Encore Alaska cruise on Sept 04. But getting the letter from NCL referred above about some crew being found positive made me rethink. The reports of some passengers turning positive post cruise were important. I acknowledge that there is no guarantee of zero cases even with 100% vaccination. I suspect that these reports may be an undercount.

 

Each one of us has to make a decision based on our individual risk for serious covid. In our case, the decision was to cancel the upcoming cruise.

 

All the best and stay safe.

[aubreyc1988]

Is NCL going to be doing this for every sailing with positive sailing, offering a either a 110% FCC or cash refund? I mean, based on other cruiselines who have been sailing for a while, this will be happening on almost every sailing. I feel like they will need to decide on some sort of booking disclaimer (although people should know when traveling that positive cases will be happening) 

[BirdTravels]

42 minutes ago, peeames said:

We were packed, tested and ready for Encore Alaska cruise on Sept 04. But getting the letter from NCL referred above about some crew being found positive made me rethink. The reports of some passengers turning positive post cruise were important. I acknowledge that there is no guarantee of zero cases even with 100% vaccination. I suspect that these reports may be an undercount.

 

Each one of us has to make a decision based on our individual risk for serious covid. In our case, the decision was to cancel the upcoming cruise.

 

All the best and stay safe.

BTW: Do you go to the grocery store?

Have you been to a restaurant?

Do you go to the mall?

How about a movie theater?

Or a bar?

Or a ball game?

 

All of those locations have a much higher density of unvaccinated, untested, people near you than the ship. 

 

Just sayin'

 

 

[peeames]

17 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

BTW: Do you go to the grocery store?

Have you been to a restaurant?

Do you go to the mall?

How about a movie theater?

Or a bar?

Or a ball game?

 

All of those locations have a much higher density of unvaccinated, untested, people near you than the ship. 

 

Just sayin'

 

 

Yes, nothing is risk free. As I had said, each one of us has to work out their own risk status and their comfort with making a decision to be on the cruise with the new, emerging information. 

 

Reasonable people can make different decisions based on same information.

 

 

[zerooveride]

4 hours ago, geckobabe said:

@zerooveride, which tracking app are you using. I don't currently have any on my phone and would like to get one. Thanks!

You have to turn on COVID Exposure Notifications in your settings then some states have apps, some just work with just the settings turned on. New York has their own app. Not all states participate.

[zerooveride]

4 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Are you sure about that?  I don't recall a single post where somebody claimed that 100% vaccinated would eliminate all Covid cases.

I don't think it was explicitly said, but I can remember a few that you could tell they thought that way. I might have been one that gave that impression, but something deep down knew that was wrong. I do think NCL has the best policies right now, but I do think there is a few additional things they could do to mitigate the risk even more than what they have.

[zerooveride]

44 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

BTW: Do you go to the grocery store?

Have you been to a restaurant?

Do you go to the mall?

How about a movie theater?

Or a bar?

Or a ball game?

 

All of those locations have a much higher density of unvaccinated, untested, people near you than the ship. 

 

Just sayin'

 

 

Absolutely right! And I do think that being on an NCL ship is a little bit safer than being in public. 

I am vaccinated and I do not wear a mask unless I have to, but I do know the risk I am taking by not wearing a mask.

[geckobabe]

2 hours ago, zerooveride said:

You have to turn on COVID Exposure Notifications in your settings then some states have apps, some just work with just the settings turned on. New York has their own app. Not all states participate.

@zerooverideThanks for the info!!!

[ChiefMateJRK]

3 hours ago, zerooveride said:

I don't think it was explicitly said, but I can remember a few that you could tell they thought that way.

Yeah, that can be a problem.  I've been a "victim" of that.  I say one thing but other posters over-react because "they knew what I was really thinking."  Better just to take people's words at face value.