Where to find fancy wine on S-class, now that Cellar Masters is disappearing?

[canderson]

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I think it's still offered by the glass, yes?

The 'regular' version, yes, but not the 'Special Selection'.   It was the near-retail price of the 'Special Selection' that caught my eye.  Haven't tried it.

[markeb]

4 minutes ago, canderson said:

The 'regular' version, yes, but not the 'Special Selection'.   It was the near-retail price of the 'Special Selection' that caught my eye.  Haven't tried it.

 

The Special Selection is a different animal. Benefits quite a bit from laying down (they don't list vintages on the wine list; if it's young, it will be pretty brutal).

 

Typically as retail price goes up, restaurant mark up goes down. So one of the best deals on the list is actually Opus One. At $480, that's only about a 25% markup over retail. But it's probably a 2017 and still a brute! If they had a 14 or 15, it would probably be over $1000/bottle, and that's still a young wine...

[markeb]

35 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

After moving to NC, I joined the Opolo wine club (Paso Robles).  Stopped for 10 years and restarted a year ago.  Just got a shipment of Zinfandel wines (3x2), all from a different part of the winery.  A little too much tobacco for my taste, but my partner seems to like them.

 

Opolo makes some good wines. I was just checking and I don't have any in the house now. We've drifted more to Washington State wines over the last few years. And trying to explore Italian wines when we can.

[canderson]

18 hours ago, chamima said:

That list seems pretty complete.

Do any recent cruisers know how accurate it really is?

BC (Before Covid) the decent red wines available in the Premium package became less and less available over the last 5 years or so.

This list looks like they've brought some back but I wonder if it's a "wish" list or an actual list.

They sent both the bottle booze list and the full wine list together.  The booze is supplied as 1L, and the wine as 750s.  I was to choose either 4 bottles of booze, or trade for wine.  Whatever I choose appears in my cabin. 

 

No way I could go through 4L in 15 nights!  So I suggested a couple of bottles of the better wine to exchange.  So I assume that what they were offering was actually available.  

[canderson]

10 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

The Special Selection is a different animal. Benefits quite a bit from laying down (they don't list vintages on the wine list; if it's young, it will be pretty brutal).

Yeah, as noted in a post I wrote a page or two back, it annoys me no end when vintages aren't indicated on any restaurant's wine list, X in particular due to distance/delay from the 'cellar', but I'm not the least fussed about sending a 'sommelier' on X back to the 'cellar' to find out before ordering.  I hate to waste both my own and the individual's time in the dining room that way, but if they don't have a good memory, they should carry a cheat sheet that includes vintages.  The scary part is that some of them don't appreciate why it matters.  Beside the need for aging, Mother Nature doesn't always cooperate either, and there's just so much that can be done in the cellar in a bad year.

 

So we share that concern.  I doubt that X is willing to sit on high $ inventory over any considerable length of time, and earlier vintages are either more costly than the list would seem to indicate, or just unavailable..

 

Will have to see what they actually have on hand when we get there.

[chamima]

1 hour ago, njcanuck said:

10+ years ago I remember being in Blu and every night there was a selection of curated wines by the Sommelier, through the week he got to know our taste and each evening recommended some nice wines.  Celebrity was really pushing the "Best wines at sea" at the time and we got to try some nice variety.

As the years went on the selection dwindled and tended to converge to mass produce "Meah" wines.  They are consistent,  available, can be bought by the corporate bean counters in mass quantities but you aren't going to find anything spectacular there.

 

Decoy, Cherry Tart, Kendall Jackson .... are all mass market wines at a modest price point which Celebrity has available at  "What you would pay for a bottle we will  charge for a glass"  pricing.

By moving up even $5 or so in the price point and going to more curated wines they could offer some decent wines, but it would require more skill at both the ship (Sommelier) level and the purchasing level.  You probably wouldn't know from cruise to cruise what is going to be available.

 

 

 

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

 

 

14 minutes ago, canderson said:

Yeah, as noted in a post I wrote a page or two back, it annoys me no end when vintages aren't indicated on any restaurant's wine list, X in particular due to distance/delay from the 'cellar', but I'm not the least fussed about sending a 'sommelier' on X back to the 'cellar' to find out before ordering.  I hate to waste both my own and the individual's time in the dining room that way, but if they don't have a good memory, they should carry a cheat sheet that includes vintages.  The scary part is that some of them don't appreciate why it matters.  Beside the need for aging, Mother Nature doesn't always cooperate either, and there's just so much that can be done in the cellar in a bad year.

 

So we share that concern.  I doubt that X is willing to sit on high $ inventory over any considerable length of time, and earlier vintages are either more costly than the list would seem to indicate, or just unavailable..

 

Will have to see what they actually have on hand when we get there.

 

I'm not sure that the wine stewards on ships are really sommeliers!

The issue with vintage has always been an issue with us also. Some years ago when thinking about purchasing a relatively expensive bottle my husband asked about the vintage and the "sommelier" had absolutely no idea why that would matter.

If we want a nice bottle now we bring it and pay the corkage.

Edited October 30, 2021 by chamima

[canderson]

1 hour ago, chamima said:

 

I'm not sure that the wine stewards on ships are really sommeliers!

They definitely aren't, at least not with respect to any of the five traditional levels.  I doubt any of them even have basic CMS certificates.

[drakes2]

4 hours ago, canderson said:

They definitely aren't, at least not with respect to any of the five traditional levels.  I doubt any of them even have basic CMS certificates.

The wine steward in CM told me he learns a lot about wines from the guests.

[zitsky]

17 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

The wine steward in CM told me he learns a lot about wines from the guests.

 

Well I would ask them when they plan to improve wines by the glass, as a few posters have said the quality has gone down.  

[canderson]

Gotta love some of the newer suites with little dual temp zone wine fridges.  Have to be easier to work with than the standard cabin minibars.  Anyone had any experience with them yet?  

[drakes2]

34 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Well I would ask them when they plan to improve wines by the glass, as a few posters have said the quality has gone down.  

I hope they have La Crema pinot noir. I love the one from the Russian River Valley.  

[canderson]

2 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

I hope they have La Crema pinot noir. I love the one from the Russian River Valley.  

The ones they're advertising at the moment are the ones from Monterey and Willamette.  That one has been a staple aboard for some years. 

 

At last count, I think La Crema was working from vineyards in Monterrey, Russian River, up north in Willamette, Anderson Valley, the Sonoma coast, and ... I forget where all else.

 

[FLCruiser97]

3 minutes ago, canderson said:

The ones they're advertising at the moment are the ones from Monterey and Willamette.  That one has been a staple aboard for some years. 

 

At last count, I think La Crema was working from vineyards in Monterrey, Russian River, up north in Willamette, Anderson Valley, the Sonoma coast, and ... I forget where all else.

 

canderson, you sure do know a lot about wine. I am getting an education here.

[canderson]

4 minutes ago, FLCruiser97 said:

canderson, you sure do know a lot about wine. I am getting an education here.

Trust me, it's a long term education for all of us.  Every year brings new surprises. 

 

We've had a lot of fun with it over the years, even joining in on the hand picking on the steepest hills of the Mosel (my wife still swears it's what ruined her knees, though her osteo doc disputes that!)  We'd make it about 3/4 of the way up our rows by the time everyone else was done, and then the veterans would help us from the top down.  Daily home made lunches from the back of the van were the best food ever!

 

Did a couple of years in smallish imports from a small family vineyard, but it's a lot of work.  Paid for a few great trips, though.  

[markeb]

20 minutes ago, canderson said:

The ones they're advertising at the moment are the ones from Monterey and Willamette.  That one has been a staple aboard for some years. 

 

At last count, I think La Crema was working from vineyards in Monterrey, Russian River, up north in Willamette, Anderson Valley, the Sonoma coast, and ... I forget where all else.

 

 

La Crema is all over the place. I think the Monterey and Sonoma Coast versions are the "standard" La Crema. Of the ones on the wine list, I personally (if I were buying a bottle) would go with the Willamette version. But I'd do the Penner-Ash over it...

 

I don't know that I've had the Russian River version. Right behind Willamette for me for North American Pinot Noir. But the winemaker can still screw it up if he or she tries...

[JL87]

I also have issues with the wine selection on any cruise line, including luxury, unless you're willing to buy a bottle. But I do understand. They have to include mostly mass produced wines for volume and consistency purposes. I'm mostly an old world wine drinker favoring Burgundy first and then a variety of other wines like Bordeaux and some Italian wines. You're simply not going to find a lot of these BTG on any cruise line. At least not the ones I tend to drink. Wines like Caymus are not my thing though I appreciate that a lot of people really like them. Interestingly, I find I tend to gravitate towards the less expensive wines BTG many times. Mostly from southern France, Italy, or Spain. Because they're cheap they tend to have less manipulation through things such as wood which can be expensive.  

[FLCruiser97]

3 minutes ago, JL87 said:

I also have issues with the wine selection on any cruise line, including luxury, unless you're willing to buy a bottle. But I do understand. They have to include mostly mass produced wines for volume and consistency purposes. I'm mostly an old world wine drinker favoring Burgundy first and then a variety of other wines like Bordeaux and some Italian wines. You're simply not going to find a lot of these BTG on any cruise line. At least not the ones I tend to drink. Wines like Caymus are not my thing though I appreciate that a lot of people really like them. Interestingly, I find I tend to gravitate towards the less expensive wines BTG many times. Mostly from southern France, Italy, or Spain. Because they're cheap they tend to have less manipulation through things such as wood which can be expensive.  

I have to agree with you JL87. We were on the EQ last month and had a couple glasses of Caymus and I wasn't all that impressed. I do like full bodied reds, cab savs, burgundy. With that said, what is a good full bodied red from the wine list on X.

[canderson]

4 minutes ago, FLCruiser97 said:

With that said, what is a good full bodied red from the wine list on X.

By the bottle?

[Naplesgolfer]

1 hour ago, FLCruiser97 said:

I have to agree with you JL87. We were on the EQ last month and had a couple glasses of Caymus and I wasn't all that impressed. I do like full bodied reds, cab savs, burgundy. With that said, what is a good full bodied red from the wine list on X.

Give the Opulence Cabernet a try. It is made by Grgich Hills for Celebrity as a private label wine. Sold by the glass and bottle. It was the best red wine by the glass I found on my last cruise on X in August.

[emmas gran]

I like heavier reds and used to drink St Francis Zinfandel, no longer on the list in September but we drank another which wasn't memorable. If you are looking for a heavy nice red try Gigglepot from McLaren Vale in Australia the vineyard is Molly Dooker (used to be $120 a bottle if you are looking to use OBC!!)

[drakes2]

3 hours ago, emmas gran said:

I like heavier reds and used to drink St Francis Zinfandel, no longer on the list in September but we drank another which wasn't memorable. If you are looking for a heavy nice red try Gigglepot from McLaren Vale in Australia the vineyard is Molly Dooker (used to be $120 a bottle if you are looking to use OBC!!)

Next to Cali cabs Aussie cabs are my favorite. Mc Lauren Vale and the Margaret River areas produce the best ones at some great price points.

[drakes2]

11 hours ago, FLCruiser97 said:

I have to agree with you JL87. We were on the EQ last month and had a couple glasses of Caymus and I wasn't all that impressed. I do like full bodied reds, cab savs, burgundy. With that said, what is a good full bodied red from the wine list on X.

@FLCruiser97never understood all the hype about Caymus cab. Overpriced for what it is and much better cabs around at great pricing. 

[zitsky]

I have said that Caymus is overpriced.  Still I think it worth trying for someone with a Premium drink package.

 

Is anyone a fan of Joe Wagner wines?  Belle Glos, Copper Cane, Meiomi (sold)?  Those are at a much better price point $20-$50.

Edited October 31, 2021 by zitsky

[canderson]

13 hours ago, Naplesgolfer said:

Give the Opulence Cabernet a try. It is made by Grgich Hills for Celebrity as a private label wine. Sold by the glass and bottle. It was the best red wine by the glass I found on my last cruise on X in August.

Would be glad to have some additional info ('tasting notes'?) on this one.  I never know what to think of these co-branded promotions.  IIRC, X used to be tied in with KJ, and those weren't all that memorable.

 

Do they put a year on this bottle?  Am guessing whatever it is, it's out of the latest (2017) public release, which was pretty oaky and could use another few years in the bottle.

[drakes2]

38 minutes ago, zitsky said:

I have said that Caymus is overpriced.  Still I think it worth trying for someone with a Premium drink package.

 

Is anyone a fan of Joe Wagner wines?  Belle Glos, Copper Cane, Meiomi (sold)?  Those are at a much better price point $20-$50.

@zitskylove the Belle Glos pinot; tastes like a cab but they are rarely on the shelves long enough for a markdown and of late I've been mostly purchasing wines at 20 to 30 off retail.