Cruise prices

[tring]

2 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Enjoy the party Barbara. Maybe you can let them know that there are some of us out here that think their launch prices are ludicrous.... I for one will be waiting for Ambassador to publish their 2023 launch.

 

Only 500 pax on here at present, but it was being sold way cheaper than the other cruises, so we were expecting that.  I doing a bit of digging as I can.

 

[ighten]

Speaking of which (Cruise Prices) - I just had an email offering some of the cheapest balcony (terrace) prices I think I have ever seen on Fred pernight.  How are they on pre testing and go ashore on your own protocols at the moment because my upcoming Saga looks a nightmare.. Cant work out if its just Saga or the countries have tightened down

[twotravellersLondon]

23 hours ago, ighten said:

I just had an email offering some of the cheapest balcony (terrace) prices

 

Q. When is a "balcony cabin" not a "balcony cabin?" A. When it's sold the "Olsen way!"

 

We've done dozens of cruises with Fred but I just can't get my head around any cruise line that sells a "balcony cabin" that has no balcony. At best... this is likely to be misleading and that's no way to build consumer confidence and trust. We don't want to go on any cruise having to questions the semantics of the offer... we want to have a relaxing holiday. What next? Fish and chips without the chips? Gin and tonic without the gin?

 

[LandC]

I know what you mean!  We have booked a Junior Suite on Bolette as we like a private balcony.  It’s actually just a balcony cabin, but Fred thinks he can charge more by describing it as a suite, and including the Suite Dreams package, which we would be quite happy to do without.

[tring]

On 4/9/2022 at 11:24 AM, ighten said:

Speaking of which (Cruise Prices) - I just had an email offering some of the cheapest balcony (terrace) prices I think I have ever seen on Fred pernight.  How are they on pre testing and go ashore on your own protocols at the moment because my upcoming Saga looks a nightmare.. Cant work out if its just Saga or the countries have tightened down

 

We came off a Fred ship on the 24th March and no problems at all regards going ashore independently and I assume there are still no problems regards that or I am sure it would have hit social media with a bang and I have not seen any comments about problems like that, nor have I seen reports of any recent covid problems on the ships. The subsequent cruises appear to have been visiting their ports as planned, as did our cruise.  Itineraries for the subsequent cruises was down to the Med (e.g. Spain) and Norway.

 

Testing by LFT is still done at embarkation and there were no tests for passengers after that on our eight night cruise, though presumably they will have tested anyone who reported ill (I was not aware of any illness among the passengers when on board or since then).  The last production show or two, when we were on Bolette were cancelled though, to be replaced by simpler things, like a solo singer.  We asked the cruise director about that and were told it was because most of the sound and light techs had gone down with covid - or were isolating because they were contacts.  I understand the crew were being tested every two days and there is still a lot of social distancing, etc. of the passengers and lower than max numbers on the ship, so I doubt there is much chance of infection there.  In fact we both came back with covid, but it is far more likely we picked that up ashore as we did frequent some fairly busy cafes/bars in Amsterdam, Hamburg and Antwerp, though we have no regrets about that as it was great to get back to what we used to enjoy as "a normal life" and restrictions have been removed over there as they have here.  

 

We have stopped booking future Fred cruises in advance, partly because of the prices, though our criteria for any cruise is always the itinerary, and it has made us keep an eye on some cruises.  We have recently booked a Balmoral Baltic for May on a late price as that is still visiting Tallin and Riga, which P&O had pulled from a Baltic we had booked on Aurora, (when they pulled SPB).  We also have almost two full days in Stockholm, docked very centrally with Fred, compared to the slightly out of town location with P&O and we like the tiered back on Balmoral as well.

 

We will miss the chance of a cheaper balcony cabin on Aurora though, yet as Fred allows smoking on balconies, we would not consider one, even if they were at an incredibly cheap price.  The prom deck cabins, whilst not surrounded by smoke, would also be unappealing to us as apart from the lack of private space, the steamer chairs provided are pretty uncomfortable and the prom decks of those ex HAL ships are very dark, with a low cover over the whole prom deck, so no real advantage over an outside cabin IMO.  We liked the terrace balconies on Boudicca though and had been in them a fair bit, since we liked the cordoned off terraces with tables and chairs (especially for breakfasts) and you could choose ones which had some sun at certain times of day and they were smoke free as well - sadly that ship and Black Watch are no more though. 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by tring

[Coravel]

All very encouraging Barbara.  We are always determined to never book too far in advance but we nearly always do because we like the itinerary.  In future we must be more patient.  

[twotravellersLondon]

On 4/10/2022 at 5:48 PM, LandC said:

know what you mean!  We have booked a Junior Suite on Bolette as we like a private balcony.  It’s actually just a balcony cabin, but Fred thinks he can charge more by describing it as a suite, and including the Suite Dreams package, which we would be quite happy to do without.

 

Do very much know the feeling!

Some of the rather small and basic balcony cabins on the Balmoral are now sold as balcony suites... same cabin but add one pretty useless atlas, a second-hand brolly, a pair of budget bins, some very, very hard apples and... Fred seems to believe that the entire tiny cabin will be transformed in to a magical "junior suite"... Is this the "Olsen Way?"

 

We always imagined that a suite was a set of rooms... but who are we to question the logic of a company that describes 20-year-old ships saved from the scrap-yards as "new" or who sells terrace cabins as balcony cabins despite the fact that they have no balcony.

We now calculate Fred's cruise prices on a like for like basis against other cruise lines. We take Fred's basic price for the cabin that we would like, add the extra for a freedom fare, add all of the extras that Fred charges as add-ons and other cruise lines have as part of an all-inclusive package and then work out the cost per day. Fred is losing out every time.

Thirty cruises with Fred... first in the 1990s... three in the year prior to covid... currently Fred is not winning us over, earning our trust and confidence or making us feel as if we want to buy a cruise from him.
We so much hope that will change.... because, our feeling is that he's just pricing himself out of the market. In the ten years before covid Fred went from 1.3 million hoppnob (heads on pillows per night on board) to only 1 million. That say's it all!
 

[LandC]

We feel the same way.  We decided to book early for our July cruise in order to get the Oceans discount.  If we had made the booking this month, we would have saved about £500, as Fred is offering cabins at reduced prices (on Freedom Fare), with increased on board spend.  
 

We won’t be making that mistake again!

[Vivaldi]

On 4/24/2022 at 12:13 PM, twotravellersLondon said:

We now calculate Fred's cruise prices on a like for like basis against other cruise lines. We take Fred's basic price for the cabin that we would like, add the extra for a freedom fare, add all of the extras that Fred charges as add-ons and other cruise lines have as part of an all-inclusive package and then work out the cost per day. Fred is losing out every time.

 

Today I saw an advert for a 25 night Greek Islands and Corinth Canal cruise on the Braemar in May 2024. It looked a very interesting trip - but then I noticed the prices. For an interior cabin the price works out at £200 pppn, and for a balcony cabin it's £520 pppn. Seriously?

[twotravellersLondon]

33 minutes ago, Vivaldi said:

Today I saw an advert for a 25 night Greek Islands and Corinth Canal cruise on the Braemar in May 2024. It looked a very interesting trip - but then I noticed the prices. For an interior cabin the price works out at £200 pppn, and for a balcony cabin it's £520 pppn. Seriously?

 

We did the first Corinth Canal Cruise in October 2019. If we were to take exactly the same cabin on the cruise that you were looking at for 2024... it would cost us far more than twice what we paid in 2019. Seriously!

 

In our view... Fred's priced himself out of the market. He just can't realistically compete with the brand new all-inclusive luxury boutique ships... even for those passengers who might normally take an ocean view cabin with Fred and have an upgrade.

 

Fred's had already lost about 25% of his passengers in the ten years before covid. His published accounts since cruising resumed don't show a rosy picture.

 

Next week Fred's going to be paying some of his past "Loyal" passengers £70 an hour for an online interview to give him some ideal of why they've deserted him in their droves.

 

It should be obvious! We can't justify paying more to sail on one of Fred's old antiquated ships seeing the same show again and again and again, watching the prices rise, the quality of the food decline and being assailed by extra charges for a freedom fare. WiFi, Drinks, gratuities and so on... when we can travel in style in bright modern friendly small ships with great food, superb entertainment  and virtually everything included... and for far less that we would have to pay with Fred.

 

In May 2018 Fred Jun is reported as saying to a journalist,  “When the ticket price goes up, we’re not trying to send any guests away. “A lot of them are sailing three or four times with us a year, so it might just mean they cut down on the number of cruises or they go from a balcony cabin to an outside.” Perhaps that was Fred's "Gerald Ratner" moment.

 

 

 

 

[Vivaldi]

19 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

In our view... Fred's priced himself out of the market. He just can't realistically compete with the brand new all-inclusive luxury boutique ships..

 

It does look like that. To add a little to my previous post, in the same newspaper where I saw the advert for Fred's Corinth Canal cruise there was an advert for a Regent Seven Seas cruise. The cost pppn for a balcony cabin on the Regent cruise was less than the cost pppn for a balcony cabin on Fred's Corinth Canal cruise. The Regent fare includes excursions, wi-fi, gratuities, speciality restaurants and all drinks, which might be additional costs on Fred.

 

I appreciate that different itineraries incur different operating costs, but the contrast here is stark, and I don't think that Fred Olsen is regarded as an equivalent in quality to Regent.

[twotravellersLondon]

18 minutes ago, Vivaldi said:

I appreciate that different itineraries incur different operating costs, but the contrast here is stark, and I don't think that Fred Olsen is regarded as an equivalent in quality to Regent.

 

I do know that the cost of transit of the Corinth Canal for a ship like the Braemar is less than 10,000 EUR... so the additional cost per passengers is no more than about 10 EUR.

 

Price-wise... I very sadly think that Fred is charging more for less and his fares are unrealistic in a very competitive world.

[Fjord4Fun]

We were all set for a Norway cruise on Balmoral as the itinerary looked great but the price was just silly.  One week in an ocean view on Balmoral with fixed twin beds, no tips, no drinks package when, for the same price, we could get a 2 week cruise on Princess with balcony, drinks package, tips and wi-fi included for almost the same price.  No-brainer really, so although we are sorry we won't be travelling on a Fred cruise this year we are looking forward to our cruise on Sky Princes. 

[LandC]

On 4/24/2022 at 1:18 PM, LandC said:

We feel the same way.  We decided to book early for our July cruise in order to get the Oceans discount.  If we had made the booking this month, we would have saved about £500, as Fred is offering cabins at reduced prices (on Freedom Fare), with increased on board spend.  
 

We won’t be making that mistake again!

We received a mail shot from Fred today, offering us an extra 5% off, in addition to our Oceans discount, if we book another cruise.  Apparently this is being offered because we sailed with Fred earlier this month, and is only available for 30 days.

 

We won’t be taking up the offer.

[ann141]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:46 AM, LandC said:

We received a mail shot from Fred today, offering us an extra 5% off, in addition to our Oceans discount, if we book another cruise.  Apparently this is being offered because we sailed with Fred earlier this month, and is only available for 30 days.

 

We won’t be taking up the offer.

We received the same letter offering 5%because we had cruised earlier this year.We want to book the Balkan cruise next September but not sure whether to book it now or wait until nearer the time when the price drops but running the risk of it selling out

[LandC]

Is that the Bolette cruise sailing from Southampton? It’s an interesting itinerary.  The prices seem rather high at the moment (especially for suites!).  However if I have read it correctly there is an OBS offer of £250 pp.
 

We now decide on a cost pppn that we are happy to pay for our chosen cabin grade, and take it from there.  Hope that helps!

 

[ann141]

4 hours ago, LandC said:

Is that the Bolette cruise sailing from Southampton? It’s an interesting itinerary.  The prices seem rather high at the moment (especially for suites!).  However if I have read it correctly there is an OBS offer of £250 pp.
 

We now decide on a cost pppn that we are happy to pay for our chosen cabin grade, and take it from there.  Hope that helps!

 

Yes it is the Balkans on bolette. Even with the £250obc and a further 5% discount it is expensive but if they throw in the drinks package within the next 30 days we may book it 

[LandC]

That sounds like a good plan.  We were on the Norwegian Fjords cruise on Bolette earlier this month.  We found that the prices went up slightly after we had booked, but then came right down about 3 months prior to departure, with extra OBS (but it was a fairly standard itinerary).  
 

We met a lady on board who had been on many of Fred’s cruises.  She said in her experience the best time to book was 2 weeks before departure, in order to get the best deals on a Saver fare.  Not sure I would want to wait that long, but it worked for her!

 

 

[Eglesbrech]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:14 AM, LandC said:

That sounds like a good plan.  We were on the Norwegian Fjords cruise on Bolette earlier this month.  We found that the prices went up slightly after we had booked, but then came right down about 3 months prior to departure, with extra OBS (but it was a fairly standard itinerary).  
 

We met a lady on board who had been on many of Fred’s cruises.  She said in her experience the best time to book was 2 weeks before departure, in order to get the best deals on a Saver fare.  Not sure I would want to wait that long, but it worked for her!

 

 

I can see why she would say that. Our cruise has come down 3 times in the last 4 weeks and I’m sure it will drop even further closer to the sail date. The reason I know this is that they have kindly been keeping me up to date with the drop in prices via Facebook and now even a paper mail shot!

 

You can’t avoid knowing that you have paid a lot more that other passengers. It would not encourage me to book early with Fred in the current climate (and I did have another cruise in mind).

 

I contacted them to ask about upgrading, so far no response (and I’m not holding my breath).

[LandC]

We sent an email requesting increased OBS for our recent cruise.   We eventually got a very polite reply refusing our request.  You may have more luck with your request for a complimentary cabin upgrade - after all it doesn’t cost Fred anything!
 

We’ve now decided to wait until 2-3 months prior to departure before booking our next cruise, as the 5% Oceans discount just isn’t enough of an incentive to book early.  However, we have 3  cruises booked with Saga (we

booked as soon as cruises were advertised and got 35% discount), so we won’t be considering Fred again for at least a couple of years.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, LandC said:

We sent an email requesting increased OBS for our recent cruise.   We eventually got a very polite reply refusing our request.  You may have more luck with your request for a complimentary cabin upgrade - after all it doesn’t cost Fred anything!
 

We’ve now decided to wait until 2-3 months prior to departure before booking our next cruise, as the 5% Oceans discount just isn’t enough of an incentive to book early.  However, we have 3  cruises booked with Saga (we

booked as soon as cruises were advertised and got 35% discount), so we won’t be considering Fred again for at least a couple of years.

I don’t blame you. 35% will be hard to beat last minute.

 

Im not even looking for a free upgrade, I’m happy to pay a bit extra to go up a few grades to above what we have paid. 

[twotravellersLondon]

 

In May this year we glanced at FOCL's 2023 Around the World in Eighty Days Cruise on board the Borealis at a start price £14,499 pp. It was advertised as with "Last Few Cabins Remaining."

 

Five months later, we've Just had a mailing from FOCL's about "Last Few Cabins Remaining" on the same cruise at a much lower start price of £9,999 pp. That's a minimum of £9,000 per couple less than we would have paid in May. We've just checked the website and found that there are cabins available in every single grade... so there are no shortages of cabins. We can now have a cabin six grades higher for the same price as the least expensive interior cabin on offer in May.

 

But if we buy now... is there any comeback if the cruise price drops even further in the next few months? (We don't want to spend more than we need to for no good reason.)

 

Will FOCLs give us the same food, entertainment, access to excursions restaurants, etc if we pay £9,000 less per couple for the cruise than the neighbours either side in identical cabin grades?

 

Has anyone who bought the cruise earlier and paid the higher prices had a refund of the £9,000+ more than the current price that they may have paid in May?

[LandC]

That’s a huge price reduction twotravellerslondon. I would have been absolutely gutted if I’d booked at the original price.  
 

We were caught out earlier this year by booking early (see my posts  #58 #68 and #70), and didn’t get any refund or increased OBS when we requested it.  I think Fred needs to rethink it’s  pricing policy or customers won’t return.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by LandC
Addition

[ARDXXX]

I am already booked on one of the Cruises departing next May, I see that the price has been reduced by £200 pp so I contacted the booking department and asked if my Cruise price would be reduced by this amount, I heve had this happen with other Cruise lines including Viking and Regent and there has never been any problem whatsoever in the new reduced price being applied, however I was informed that this would not happen and I would have to pay the higher amount! There does not seem to be any benefit from being a loyal customer and to book early, how disappointing and a poor reflection on the companies way to keep loyal customers.

[twotravellersLondon]

On 10/20/2022 at 3:07 PM, ARDXXX said:

I am already booked on one of the Cruises departing next May, I see that the price has been reduced by £200 pp so I contacted the booking department and asked if my Cruise price would be reduced by this amount, I heve had this happen with other Cruise lines including Viking and Regent and there has never been any problem whatsoever in the new reduced price being applied, however I was informed that this would not happen and I would have to pay the higher amount! There does not seem to be any benefit from being a loyal customer and to book early, how disappointing and a poor reflection on the companies way to keep loyal customers.

 

In the good old days... Fred used to offer a guarantee that if he dropped prices that he would also refund the difference for anyone who had booked earlier but... he dropped that idea... maybe it would have been better not to.

 

In the ten years before Covid, Fred lost passengers to such an extent that his loading went down from over 90% to just about 70%. The real problem was that Fred just wasn't able to recruit passengers in sufficient numbers to replace those that he was losing. We think that the reason was that when Fred tried to increase his prices above inflation... his loyal passengers' reaction was "How much?" and just didn't book.

 

At the beginning of lockdown, the FOCLs Board made what the company accounts describe as a "strategic" decision to modernise the fleet by disposing of the Black Watch and the Boudicca and replacing them with two old, redundant HAL ships. So despite having less and less people cruising with them over ten years prior to covid, FOCLs increased the number of lower berths from about 3,879 to 4,900. He clearly and expected a flood of loyal cruisers to beat a path to his gang plank after covid. 

 

In an interview for the trade press, the FOCLs MD suggested that the idea was to maximise the potential of the old HAL ships and set the cost of what he described as  the "premium" cabins (everything above that red line on the hull) by about 20%. Perhaps that's why loyal customers were to be charged top rates on the "special loyalty days" and then watch helplessly as the same cruise was discounted again and again, free drinks, free gratuities and free onboard spend were added. Selling cruises like a Dutch auction may be as good a way as any to destroy a loyalty base..

 

Perhaps FOCLs have been reading far too many of the reviews that they pay to be collected and published on their site as part of a marketing strategy... two or thee percent of the people who cruise with FOCLs may think that the company's "first class",  "fantastic", "couldn't be better" and is  "good value" but... the other 97% of people on the same cruises... no comment.

 

We don't like the old HAL's ships for lots of reasons. We're certainly not going to be paying out more to travel on them. Looking at FOCL's accounts and occupancy figures, it would certainly seem that we're not alone. 

 

 

Now a blast from the past... lots of cruisers on Fred enjoying a lovely sea day sunning themselves along the entire length of the promenade deck... not a terraced cabin or a reserved sun-lounger in sight... Fred knew how to attract customers, fill his ships and make people happy in the good old days! 😎