Cruise prices

[twotravellersLondon]

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by twotravellersLondon

[twotravellersLondon]

On 10/16/2022 at 4:14 PM, LandC said:

 I think Fred needs to rethink it’s  pricing policy or customers won’t return.

 

That's just so true! We've just had another email from FOCL's trying to offload unsold cruises Christmas over on the Balmoral, Bolette and the Borealis.

 

Out of curiosity, I selected the Borealis' "Christmas Celebrations in the Canaries." It was £10,998 for the two of us after a £400 discount but the drinks package added an extra £699.72. The price didn't include WIFI and a whole host of other things.

 

I was automatically offered any one of five immediately adjacent portside midship balcony suites on Highland Deck and two adjacent starboard side midship balcony suites on the other side of the ship. 

 

It just struck us that sailing on a Christmas cruise with so many adjacent cabins still empty at this stage seemed all a bit lonely and just a little spooky. Christmas cruises used to be so popular.

 

Maybe FOCLs is changing too much. We went on a very similar cruise with Fred to Norway a few years ago for half the price! The ship was full!

 

 

So another blast from the past... a very cold evening on the golf-course at Alta with Fred not long before Covid... a similar cruise and a similar cabin at half the price of the current "offer." Now those were the days!

 

[Eglesbrech]

22 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

We went on a very similar cruise with Fred to Norway a few years ago for half the price

You just have to see how quiet this forum is to see how Fred passengers have reduced. That and the number of cancelled cruises this year letting down their customers.

 

I have one more cruise booked with Fred and it’s probably the last. Like the abortive French one the price for the next one is already coming down from what I paid and I’m sure it will drop much more nearer the sail date. Why would anyone book early with them when there are bargain basement prices at the last minute.

 

I was browsing and I can actually get a cruise on one of Azamaras (small) ships in a balcony with drinks, WiFi etc for the same price as an outside on Fred (7 days v 9). Considering just writing off the deposit.

 

It is a pity as I have always enjoyed our cruises on Fred in the past but the prices cant be justified by the product when there is so much choice out there.

 

 

[paulatsea]

2 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

You just have to see how quiet this forum is to see how Fred passengers have reduced. That and the number of cancelled cruises this year letting down their customers.

 

I have one more cruise booked with Fred and it’s probably the last. Like the abortive French one the price for the next one is already coming down from what I paid and I’m sure it will drop much more nearer the sail date. Why would anyone book early with them when there are bargain basement prices at the last minute.

 

I was browsing and I can actually get a cruise on one of Azamaras (small) ships in a balcony with drinks, WiFi etc for the same price as an outside on Fred (7 days v 9). Considering just writing off the deposit.

 

It is a pity as I have always enjoyed our cruises on Fred in the past but the prices cant be justified by the product when there is so much choice out there.

 

 

Agree - Fred has lost its way. Ridiculous pricing is one thing - just feel that it doesn’t have any focus any more. Shame - as onboard was always very good.

[twotravellersLondon]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:28 PM, Eglesbrech said:

You just have to see how quiet this forum is to see how Fred passengers have reduced.

 

On 10/26/2022 at 7:37 PM, paulatsea said:

Agree - Fred has lost its way. Ridiculous pricing is one thing - just feel that it doesn’t have any focus any more. Shame - as onboard was always very good.

 

The various sites are eerily quiet.

 

In the 20-naughties "Fred" built up a loyal customer base, put on a superb offer and gave an enormous number a people great holidays. He had ship-loads of very happy people and enjoyed a wonderful reputation and. 

 

Now... FOCLs are giving travel agents £20 shopping vouchers to shift hard-to-sell cruises, giving all and sundry entry into a prize draw if they vote for the FOCLs in national awards and our inbox is filling up with FOCLs offer after offer on cruises over Christmas. 

 

FOCLs has four ships available... but at times this autumn the company only has one cruise ship carrying passengers due to lack of business.

 

We're the eternal optimists. We hope that FOCLs finds a dynamic new Chairman... someone with charisma, drive, dedication and the ability to understand exactly where the cruise line is, exactly what people think about it and what people want from the price that they're willing to pay.

 

In the good old days.... "Fred" was this good...

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every photo was taken on one of Fred ships in the days that every cruise featured . starters to whet the appetite, beef Wellington, rack of lamb, duck and lobster... and desserts to die for... those were the days and some people, like ourselves, thought that they would never end... 

 

We live in hope because in our hearts the dream is still the same but we're older and wiser and we now cruise with companies that share that same dream.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by twotravellersLondon

[paulatsea]

17 minutes ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

The various sites are eerily quiet.

 

In the 20-naughties "Fred" built up a loyal customer base, put on a superb offer and gave an enormous number a people great holidays. He had ship-loads of very happy people and enjoyed a wonderful reputation and. 

 

Now... FOCLs are giving travel agents £20 shopping vouchers to shift hard-to-sell cruises, giving all and sundry entry into a prize draw if they vote for the FOCLs in national awards and our inbox is filling up with FOCLs offer after offer on cruises over Christmas. 

 

FOCLs has four ships available... but at times this autumn the company only has one cruise ship carrying passengers due to lack of business.

 

We're the eternal optimists. We hope that FOCLs finds a dynamic new Chairman... someone with charisma, drive, dedication and the ability to understand exactly where the cruise line is, exactly what people think about it and what people want from the price that they're willing to pay.

 

In the good old days.... "Fred" was this good...

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every photo was taken on one of Fred ships in the days that every cruise featured . starters to whet the appetite, beef Wellington, rack of lamb, duck and lobster... and desserts to die for... those were the days and some people, like ourselves, thought that they would never end... 

 

We live in hope because in our hearts the dream is still the same but we're older and wiser and we now cruise with companies that share that same dream.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you.

I really hope they make a decision to sort things out.

reintroduce adults only on certain cruises like before and get a consistent pricing model. 
Perhaps an independent owner would work better - similar to ambassador.

 

 

[tring]

13 hours ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

 

The various sites are eerily quiet.

 

In the 20-naughties "Fred" built up a loyal customer base, put on a superb offer and gave an enormous number a people great holidays. He had ship-loads of very happy people and enjoyed a wonderful reputation and. 

 

Now... FOCLs are giving travel agents £20 shopping vouchers to shift hard-to-sell cruises, giving all and sundry entry into a prize draw if they vote for the FOCLs in national awards and our inbox is filling up with FOCLs offer after offer on cruises over Christmas. 

 

FOCLs has four ships available... but at times this autumn the company only has one cruise ship carrying passengers due to lack of business.

 

We're the eternal optimists. We hope that FOCLs finds a dynamic new Chairman... someone with charisma, drive, dedication and the ability to understand exactly where the cruise line is, exactly what people think about it and what people want from the price that they're willing to pay.

 

In the good old days.... "Fred" was this good...

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every photo was taken on one of Fred ships in the days that every cruise featured . starters to whet the appetite, beef Wellington, rack of lamb, duck and lobster... and desserts to die for... those were the days and some people, like ourselves, thought that they would never end... 

 

We live in hope because in our hearts the dream is still the same but we're older and wiser and we now cruise with companies that share that same dream.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually Borealis is currently in a long planned dry dock and Balmoral did have a repair needed a couple of months ago.  Only Bollette cruises have been cancelled because of lack of business, though of course Braemar has still not resumed sailing (if indeed she ever does come back into service).  Other cruise lines are also upsetting people who had cruises pre booked because of reduced last minute cruises though, including P&O and Ambassador - it is a sign of the times.  There is a thread started on the P&O boards with numerous comments about the lack of interest in booking the newly released cruises, largely because of the uncertainty about prices, so I do not believe prices are Fred's only problem.

 

Azamara released details of a world cruise for 2025, which can be booked in short sections and I must admit that has taken our eye - we could well be interested in 2 or 3 sectors of that, whilst Fred is just not presently offering the sort of itineraries he used to attract us with.  His around Africa itinerary does look exceptionally good, but cannot be booked in shorter sectors and also I can see  a lot of those ports being no go for the 23/24 winter.  We were told by someone booked on the P&O world for early next year, that even those regularly visited ports are starting to go by the wayside, for instance Hong Kong has gone, though hardly surprising given the Chinese policy on covid.

 

Fred still offers some ports which are not visited by other cruise lines, but when only sailing from the UK there is a limit to the new ports which he can rustle up and many of us have been to most of them.  We have no Fred cruises booked as things stand, though we have been on about six of his cruises since covid and did find a quality which other main stream cruise companies do not offer, but that alone will not keep him going.  We have also travelled on P&O, Princess and Ambassador since covid and whilst we would not repeat Princess or Ambassador, P&O, (which we have done quite a bit on in our earlier cruising years), does have it's place for particular itineraries as a cheaper option in the right cabin if making good use of speciality restaurants and keeping away from the busier venues at peak times.  Fred has certainly lost his niche in the market and the way things seem to be going at present. he does not appear to be regaining it at all.  We would in previous years have happily paid a premium for quality cruises with good itineraries, such as were provided by Swan Hellenic and VOD, but those itineraries moved on rather than just staying the same each year.  Azamara is where we will likely be looking for more distant, unusual destinations in the future and we will happily pay a premium for that.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by tring

[LandC]

 

We had a wonderful cruise to Australia and New Zealand on Azamara Journey in January 2020, just before the first lockdown.  We liked the ship and found our fellow passengers (from all over the world) engaging. 

We also enjoy sailing with Noble Caledonia. The company has two small Renaissance ships - Hebridean Sky and Island Sky.  Sailing on these ships is reminiscent of sailing on Swan Hellenic’s Minerva, and they have some interesting and unusual itineraries.  
 

We have no cruises booked with Fred at the moment - our last was on Bolette in July, and although the crew were excellent as ever, the food quality and variety had certainly deteriorated and bore no resemblance to the photos posted by twotravellersLondon.  We were also about £500 worse off by booking early to take advantage of our Oceans discount. We haven’t ruled Fred out completely but will wait a couple of years before considering another booking.  

 

[tring]

22 minutes ago, LandC said:

 

We had a wonderful cruise to Australia and New Zealand on Azamara Journey in January 2020, just before the first lockdown.  We liked the ship and found our fellow passengers (from all over the world) engaging. 

We also enjoy sailing with Noble Caledonia. The company has two small Renaissance ships - Hebridean Sky and Island Sky.  Sailing on these ships is reminiscent of sailing on Swan Hellenic’s Minerva, and they have some interesting and unusual itineraries.  
 

We have no cruises booked with Fred at the moment - our last was on Bolette in July, and although the crew were excellent as ever, the food quality and variety had certainly deteriorated and bore no resemblance to the photos posted by twotravellersLondon.  We were also about £500 worse off by booking early to take advantage of our Oceans discount. We haven’t ruled Fred out completely but will wait a couple of years before considering another booking.  

 

 

We saw Island sky recently and just looked up the deck plans for that and Hebridean Sky.  They are not renaissance ships, in fact they are much smaller than those, but do look interesting in the right location, albeit very expensive.  We are not in the market for booking any new holidays at present due to a health issue, but will bear them in mind as I have had Noble Caledonia mentioned by someone who was a long term Swan/VOD traveller previously.  We need to re schedule, or cancel a cruise from next March at present, so that is our current focus as well as heading off on another cruise soon, which is not impacted by our situation.

 

Fred's one big advantage is his regional departures IMO, a journey for us to Newcastle or even Rosyth, is much preferred to that drag down to the south coast and Liverpool is within a 20 min taxi journey for us (or free public transport with our bus passes if we do not have much luggage).  I can see why it was cruises from the south coast that were cancelled on Bollette as there is far too much competition down there.

 

I do agree food has been variable on Fred since covid and as ever some things are being cut, but my comments referred to the comparison to other main stream lines where standards have also reduced considerably with service plummeting considerable on those lines as well.  We have seen extra training in place on Fred, and an managers overseeing the service being given by newer staff - especially in the restaurants and food service on outside decks, whilst managers on other lines seem to be non existent, though whether the good service on Fred continues with the changes on the board remains to be seen (it would be a very major loss if they compromise on that IMO).  Land holidays are still very much in our minds for the future now as cruising is becoming either very expensive or of a standard we are not really interested in, unless a really good itinerary appears or it is a jaunt from a regional departure, (we often add a shortish cruise to a UK holiday, especially if we can use it as part of our travel from one  place to another.

 

 

[twotravellersLondon]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:51 AM, paulatsea said:

get a consistent pricing model. 

 

On 11/4/2022 at 11:37 AM, LandC said:

We were also about £500 worse off by booking early to take advantage of our Oceans discount. We haven’t ruled Fred out completely but will wait a couple of years before considering another booking.

 

 

Sadly "consistent pricing" isn't in the FOCLs lexicon... and there seems to be little or no understanding by the myriad of "managers" in Ipswich HQ that leaving loyalty customers so obviously out of pocket may have a negative impact on potential future sales.

 

FOCLs seem to be besotted with the idea of "dynamic pricing." Enquiries, sales and other things influence decisions to change prices without notice. That can happen several times a day and is made more complicated by all sort of "offers" which may mean that potential cruisers end up paying more that they would have done a few weeks earlier or a few weeks later. FOCLs seems to think that "dynamic pricing" is very, very clever because it allows the company to stay one step ahead of potential cruisers, take advantage of the information that the company has on potential demand and to cash in... in our opinion... it's just gaming on a commercial scale without any awareness of the implications in the real world.

 

For instance... Take FOCLs "White Christmas in Norway T2232" (Prepare to be confused!) 

This was on sale from; £2,199pp on the 30th of September, from £1,999 on the 4th of October, from £2,199 on the 15th of October and from £1,899 on the 25th of October. I was offered it from; £1,979.10 on the 1st of November, from £1,980 on the 4th of November and from £2,199 on the 6th of November. I've just had a mailing (as a "valued Oceans member") offering this same cruise... at 7.30 am on the 11th of November...I thought that the price was from £1,439 on a "Saver PLUS" fare or £1,709.10 on a Freedom Fare... but I could be wrong... I get so very confused with all of these price changes and offers!  But I'm sure... I think... that by 11.00 am that same morning the price was £2,199pp...  again... except that, as an Ocean's member, I could have bought the cruise from £1,970.10 pp on a Freedom fare or £1,970.10 pp with a "free" drinks package.  So two different prices... one with "free" drinks and one at the same price without "free" drinks... and both in exactly the same grade of cabin on exactly the same cruise!?!? The free drinks package is only available on cruises booked before the 20th of November 2022... so what happens afterwards? Should I wait? Will there be another price rise? Will there be a price reduction? Will there be another offer in addition... to "free drinks"? And what is the answer to "Life the Universe and Everything"? Is there a virtual meerkat available at cruisepricehelpplease.com? What's the significance of the 10p in some of the prices?

 

What a merry-go-round! And none of the multitude of "managers" in FOCLs' Ipswich HQ seem to realise/care that they're mailing this pricing information to "valued Oceans members" some of whom will very soon cotton on to the fact that they're out of pocket. They've lost out... either by booking early on a loyalty day and then seeing others getting the same cabins for less or losing out on significant add-on offers... or both. Even folk who bought the cruise during what FOCLs called a "sale"... may well have significantly lost out.

 

There seems to be very little awareness that that this "dynamic pricing" is such a major turn-off for many people. Or that "dynamic pricing" might just explain why FOCLs cruise sales, occupancy rates and revenues are so much lower now than they were in 2019. Perhaps it's this "dynamic pricing" that's turned a profit in 2019 to and enormous loss in 2022 and placed the company in about £100 million worth of debt. Perhaps that why half the FOCLs fleet is laid up and perhaps that's the real reason why the FOCLs financials have been so affected by "cancellations" in July, August and September of this year.

 

FOCLs is a subsidiary of First Olsen (Holdings) Ltd which continues to act as a holding company for the Fred Olsen cruise businesses.  These different          businesses own and operate the MV Braemar, MV Balmoral, MV Borealis and the MV Bolette. First Olsen (Holdings) Ltd lost £86 million in 2020 and £64 million in 2021. The Group Annual Report and Financial Statements up to 31 December 2021 is in Companies House and contains the sentence... "Directors believe that it remains appropriate to prepare statements on a going concern basis, however the availability of additional funding needed represents a material uncertainty that may cast significant doubt on the  Group's ability to continue as a going concern."

 

First Olsen (Holdings) Ltd or FOCLs seems to have completely missed that "Fred's" Loyalty Club Members are the group's "major stakeholders." They "invested" some £2 billion into the companies in the group the ten years before covid. "Fred's" Loyalty Club Members know exactly what will encourage folk to book cruises and they also know exactly what is that's preventing people, like themselves, from booking now. They might even be able to suggest why a significant number of people have been cancelling their cruises. Many of "Fred's" Loyalty Club Members may now been more circumspect but... companies often need "critical friends" to help them see outside the bubble of their own advertising hype and self-congratulatory social media posts... they need help to see themselves as others now see them.  

 

A £150,000,000 lost over 2020 & 2021 just isn’t good... and seems to be way, way out of line with what seems to be happening in other small cruise lines from their published accounts.

 

How about stopping "dynamic-pricing" and respecting once loyal, appreciative clients by giving them transparent pricing and a guarantee that they won't be placed at a disadvantage by later price-cuts, offers or any other suchlike change. Even better, offer every loyalty customer a free upgrade from the basic cabin to an all-inclusive balcony or suite depending on their Loyalty status as a real "welcome back!"  Why not? It would cost the company next to nothing... one bottle of inexpensive Fizzy wine... bulk purchased at duty-free, trade prices, enough canapés to make half a sandwich each afternoon and some bits of pretty long to ripen fruit... per cabin per cruise. But the gesture could generate good will and promote future sales!

 

Perhaps that sort of simple idea might just result in a bit of a win-win situation... for FOCLs, for "Fred's" once loyal cruisers, for the group as a whole, the staff in Ipswich, for the crew on the ships and for the UK cruise industry in general? 

[terry2]

They also seem to have misunderstood the way dynamic pricing should work.  The idea is that you start off at a low price (ideally covering the costs) and then increase it as the availability reduces. But fred is doing the opposite - start high then drop the price as they become desperate. 

 

Mind you even after the latest discounts their prices for a january cruise to the canaries is higher than I when I booked for one with P&O last summer (the P&O price has gone up a little bit since then). 

 

I have no idea who I will be going with for future cruises.

[Coravel]

It appears that the price of drinks has gone up recently.  Two glasses of wine that previously cost £10.90 are now £12.  

[Britboys]

It has been said time and again that Fred's launch prices are out of kilter with most other lines operating ex-UK. Most lines also operate 'fluid pricing' but at least their launch prices are generally pretty good, even when there are late offers...

[mancunian]

We lost faith in FO after covid when they announced the first short UK cruises.  We quickly booked the three day Scotland on  Borealis fromLiverpool.   It said in the blurb they were waiting for official regs to come out before announcing their rules.   We wrongly assumed they would be the same as other cruise lines.  It was then announced they were not going with compulsory vaccinations and that tables in the dining rooms would be for six and you would form a bubble with this table.   No way.   We pointed out that the only two cruise lines going with non vaccinated passengers were MSC and themselves,therefore it was probable that there would be many of these people on their ships.  Furthermore we were not going in a bubble with people who may not be vaccinated.  We asked for a refund which was refused.  We asked to transfer to a much later cruise which was eventually agreed but only if we booked said cruise within 24 hours.

 

We would have liked to transfer to a much later cruise but of course could not so had to quickly find something for this last summer which turned out to be a 5 day cruise round Ireland of course costing more.  We would really have liked to do the shorter cruise to Rouen which we had done a few years earlier on Black Prince and had loved but realised we were sailing up the river each way in the dark.  Absolutely stupid. Having quickly rebooked a couple of weeks later they changed their minds and decided people must be vaccinated.  We were very frustrated.   We could not move back as we had in the meantime booked a UK cruise on Viking instead - vaccinated people, tables for 2 and daily testing!

 

Well we went on  borealis to Ireland.   I have to say I am mystified about the dislike people seem to have about the HAL ships.  We have done 16 cruises on Rotterdam and loved her.  In our view she is far, far preferable to the FO ships particularly Braemar.  She is also very good in rough weather having done Biscay twice and Drakes Passage in very rough weather.  But of course each to their own.   However, although we still liked the ship, but not necessarily the carpets we thought the food in the main MDR was very poor.

 

These experiences have decided us against FO for the future.   I also not that you can get Cunard for lower prices.

 

 

 

 

 

[twotravellersLondon]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:45 AM, mancunian said:

These experiences have decided us against FO for the future.   I also not that you can get Cunard for lower prices.

 

 

Why is, what used to be known as "Fred" by long-time Loyal supporters now so expensive compared with other lines... even those considered as on the "pricy side?"

 

 

We were hoping to cruise in the eastern Mediterranean for about a month in the Autumn of 2025. We'd been attracted by the "Exploring the Dalmatian Coast and Greek Islands with Turkey" on the Balmoral. We had two cruise-lines on our back of the envelope "short list." One was "Fred." The other was one of FOCL's main competitors for the higher end of "Fred's" market. 

 

Today we received the advanced registration call from that other cruise-line, made a provisional booking and will have two weeks to look at the offer in more detail before it becomes a firm contract.

 

We want a balcony cabin, access to Wi-Fi, a couple of speciality dining experiences and perhaps one "posh" afternoon tea each week and we do enjoy a cocktail and wine with meals in moderation. On top of that we'll have to consider the cost of getting to the port, parking and insurance for the holiday.

 

FOCL's ancient Balmoral (1988) is currently working out as much more expensive that the alternative upmarket line. 

 

The alternative cruise-line has new ships, offers a three speciality dining restaurants as well as "pop-ups," a glorious afternoon tea available every day, all-inclusive wines, premium branded spirits, cocktails, draught beers and lagers, non-alcoholic cocktails, all mixers and soft drinks. But... the alternative also offers us a private chauffeur limo to and from the ship,  covers the cost of our insurance, gratuities and... in our experience, provides a better quality and variety of food, entertainment, far superior accommodation, a better ambiance (not a cryptic clue to the line!) and lots of excursions/ transfers that we can choose to use if we're so inclined. 

 

We're so fortunate to still be able to enjoy cruises after so many years but like the vast majority of folk we need to look very carefully at value for money. If FOCL can't compete on price on a like-for like basis... we have no real option except to give "Exploring the Dalmatian Coast and Greek Islands with Turkey" a miss. We just can't pay: won't pay more for less on FOCL.

 

And... with the alternative cruise line... if the price drops closer to the sail-by date... we have a guaranteed price promise that we will be compensated! If FOCL drops the price or adds some sort of "come-ons" we'd lose out!

 

[kendadj]

Can you name the "other cruise line"?

[twotravellersLondon]

7 hours ago, kendadj said:

Can you name the "other cruise line"?

 

In a word... SAGA. 10-15 years ago they were twice the price of "Fred" for a like for like balcony cabin... but FOCL have now lost the price advantage.

 

When we select any cruise, we run the cost through a little spread sheet to find the real bottom line against competitors. These days FOCL loses out every time.

Edited March 21 by twotravellersLondon