Existing protocols extended indefinitely

[kirtihk]

4 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Then why are people commenting on how they love the low capacity as there are no lines or waiting?

Exactly! Plus look at all the "free cruise/ $10, $25 cruise" threads people are posting about. Doesn't add up. If demand is so high, you wouldn't be giving your product away. While some may love all the protocols and empty ships, they aren't a big enough group to keep the cruise lines afloat, hence the pricing and firsthand reported low capacities being reported.   

Besides, it's so rude to comment like this ("people commenting on how they love the low capacity as there are no lines or waiting").  Some (like cruise lines) are suffering and others are happy about that.

[BlerkOne]

Something like a million people have cruised since the restart a few short months ago. Gamblers are only a small percentage. Available berths went from 0 last July with the last 5 ships restarting within a few months. That's a lot of capacity to sell in very little time. Once steady state is reached, prices will return to whatever the new normal will be. Carnival is in fine shape.

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, kirtihk said:

Besides, it's so rude to comment like this ("people commenting on how they love the low capacity as there are no lines or waiting").  Some (like cruise lines) are suffering and others are happy about that.

 

Agree. I said the same, they enjoy it now but it's not good for the lines. It unsustainable and may bring cruising down to it's knees, the mass market lines anyway. We love cruising and hope the lines can survive this onslaught of unequal burdens and unrealistic expectations that many seem to have for the industry.

[cruisingguy007]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Something like a million people have cruised since the restart a few short months ago. Gamblers are only a small percentage. Available berths went from 0 last July with the last 5 ships restarting within a few months. That's a lot of capacity to sell in very little time. Once steady state is reached, prices will return to whatever the new normal will be. Carnival is in fine shape.

 

What about all the people who are only cruising because the fares are super low? I've seen a bunch of threads of people that wanted to cancel but went ahead with the cruise because they didn't want to lose money on cancellation fees or the price was too good to pass up. If things are going so well and demand is high, why all the free/cheap fares and reports of empty ships? You still haven't explained that and why that is considered "good shape". Also, why the need for confusing piecemeal cancellation options, often given in very short two week windows with long phone wait times, if demand is high? I totally get keeping positive and being an industry cheerleader, but there is no way that the protocols aren't affecting bookings.   

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

What about all the people who are only cruising because the fares are super low? I've seen a bunch of threads of people that wanted to cancel but went ahead with the cruise because they didn't want to lose money on cancellation fees or the price was too good to pass up. If things are going so well and demand is high, why all the free/cheap fares and reports of empty ships? You still haven't explained that and why that is considered "good shape". Also, why the need for confusing piecemeal cancellation options, often given in very short two week windows with long phone wait times, if demand is high? I totally get keeping positive and being an industry cheerleader, but there is no way that the protocols aren't affecting bookings.   

Covid sets the schedule. The existing protocols are extended. What is so hard to understand?

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Covid sets the schedule. The existing protocols are extended. What is so hard to understand?

 

The answer I expected. Thanks! 

[bucfan2]

14 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

The answer I expected. Thanks! 

A very simple, useless answer...and repeated over and over to allow for deflection.  Not sure how someone can even dream in their own mind that cruise lines are 'doing fine'.

Edited January 24, 2022 by bucfan2

[BlerkOne]

25 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

A very simple, useless answer...and repeated over and over to allow for deflection.  Not sure how someone can even dream in their own mind that cruise lines are 'doing fine'.

I guess something to do with the Carnival Board, with access to actual data, indicates they are ahead of schedule and will be profitable in Q2 of 2022. I don't know how others reject reality.

Edited January 24, 2022 by BlerkOne

[bandjwayne]

20 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

A very simple, useless answer...and repeated over and over to allow for deflection.  Not sure how someone can even dream in their own mind that cruise lines are 'doing fine'.

That is so true. 

We love cruising, and it is hard to look at what is going on and think they are "doing fine"  A quick google search gave me all I needed to know (Q4)

Revenue-   1.9B 

Cost of Revenue-  4.65B

Net income -  -2.75B yes negative

 

While these numbers are up from Q3, it for sure is not sustainable for the future. 

 

 

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, bandjwayne said:

That is so true. 

We love cruising, and it is hard to look at what is going on and think they are "doing fine"  A quick google search gave me all I needed to know (Q4)

Revenue-   1.9B 

Cost of Revenue-  4.65B

Net income -  -2.75B yes negative

 

While these numbers are up from Q3, it for sure is not sustainable for the future. 

 

 

 

I guess we are just rejecting reality...lol. 😁

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/CCL/financials/

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, bandjwayne said:

That is so true. 

We love cruising, and it is hard to look at what is going on and think they are "doing fine"  A quick google search gave me all I needed to know (Q4)

Revenue-   1.9B 

Cost of Revenue-  4.65B

Net income -  -2.75B yes negative

 

While these numbers are up from Q3, it for sure is not sustainable for the future. 

 

 

No, it isn't sustainable. Carnival still has over 9 billion in liquidity - same as a year ago.

 

Fourth-quarter revenue jumped to $1.29 billion from $34 million last year, as passenger ticket sales and onboard and other revenue grew.

For the first half of the new fiscal year, Carnival said it expects a net loss, but a profit for the second half of the year.

 

[bandjwayne]

5 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I guess we are just rejecting reality...lol. 😁

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/CCL/financials/

Right!!! Plus the earnings forecast was BEFORE they sent out the letter to everyone about the protocols being extended.  But I guess we are still wrong, lets just give up 😅

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, bandjwayne said:

Right!!! Plus the earnings forecast was BEFORE they sent out the letter to everyone about the protocols being extended.  But I guess we are still wrong, lets just give up 😅

 

Yup. Math is overrated anyway. Feelings are a much better barometer of fiscal solvency. We should just stick with that. Sounds completely reasonable these days. I think I'd like to hold on to my money and do last min bookings, just in case though. 😏   

[BlerkOne]

Grousers gonna grouse. Carnival knows what they are doing. Armchair admirals can move to the back of the bus/ship.

[cruisingguy007]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Grousers gonna grouse. Carnival knows what they are doing. Armchair admirals can move to the back of the bus/ship.

 

Dose calling Carnival death/plague ships and garbage dumpers count as grousing? Just curious.   

[bandjwayne]

5 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Grousers gonna grouse. Carnival knows what they are doing. Armchair admirals can move to the back of the bus/ship.

I really think you are missing the point.  In NO WAY do I want Carnival to fail......this is our vacation of choice.  I just am wanting to see vast improvement in people going on cruises than what I am reading.  The report you are talking about was before they made the announcement last week.  They do not know how everyone booked will react.  I am booked, and am NOT going to cancel because it is too early for me to do that and by next Feb it will be totally different than today.  I can appreciate your positive attitude, but I don't think we will ever know how many people have decided not to go because of the protocols in place.  

[cruisingguy007]

9 minutes ago, bandjwayne said:

I really think you are missing the point.  In NO WAY do I want Carnival to fail......this is our vacation of choice.  I just am wanting to see vast improvement in people going on cruises than what I am reading.  The report you are talking about was before they made the announcement last week.  They do not know how everyone booked will react.  I am booked, and am NOT going to cancel because it is too early for me to do that and by next Feb it will be totally different than today.  I can appreciate your positive attitude, but I don't think we will ever know how many people have decided not to go because of the protocols in place.  

 

I thought that also, that's why I booked multiple cruises, yet here we are, two years later, going through the same crap/issues. I read a story on marketwatch recently that is pretty depressing. Looks like it will be a while. If things don't improve drastically by summer, it could cause too much financial turmoil for any line to overcome and some may get their wish for "a new normal".  

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-great-great-great-grandchildren-will-still-be-getting-immunized-against-coronavirus-this-mayo-clinic-doctor-says-its-too-late-to-eradicate-covid-19-11642701172

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, bandjwayne said:

I really think you are missing the point.  In NO WAY do I want Carnival to fail......this is our vacation of choice.  I just am wanting to see vast improvement in people going on cruises than what I am reading.  The report you are talking about was before they made the announcement last week.  They do not know how everyone booked will react.  I am booked, and am NOT going to cancel because it is too early for me to do that and by next Feb it will be totally different than today.  I can appreciate your positive attitude, but I don't think we will ever know how many people have decided not to go because of the protocols in place.  

I don't think so. I am not picking on you or anyone in particular. I do know some don't like the protocols and they

1) overvalue themselves and 

2) mistakenly think they are somehow part of a majority

3) their crystal ball is defective

 

I can only speak for myself - I went on 4 cruises last year, only one of which was discounted, and that was last July when cruising began. I had 6 Carnival cruises booked before the announcement (more if you count other lines) and still have those 6 booked (and others). None of those are bargains.

 

As for financials, if there was anything material to report, CCL is obligated to file a report with the SEC. They have not filed anything with regards to the impact of the announcement or anything related to it.

 

Unlike some other cruise lines, Carnival has not terminated cruises early because of covid. They extended the protocols for a reason and it is what it is.

[bandjwayne]

13 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

You can only speak for yourself, yet you point out 1/2/3 about others?  Can't have it both ways....which is it?

 

We've been on 5 cruises since the restart (4 w/ masks, 1 w/o).  I don't believe we're 'mistakenly part of the majority' at all.  We're done until these draconian protocols are gone. And the ridiculously low occupancy #'s show that other vacations are much more attractive than cruising right now.  The general public sure isn't putting up w/ jumping thru all these hoops to go cruising.

^This right here!  Well Stated.

Edited January 24, 2022 by bandjwayne

[cruisingguy007]

3 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

You can only speak for yourself, yet you point out 1/2/3 about others?  Can't have it both ways....which is it?

 

We've been on 5 cruises since the restart (4 w/ masks, 1 w/o).  I don't believe we're 'mistakenly part of the majority' at all.  We're done until these draconian protocols are gone. And the ridiculously low occupancy #'s show that other vacations are much more attractive than cruising right now.  The general public sure isn't putting up w/ jumping thru all these hoops to go cruising.

 

1/2/3 also apply to the protocol lovers as well, and those who enjoy the safety theater aspects and "feeling" safe. Even though it hasn't really been super effective as of late with omicron, as evidenced by long lines of sick crew members and all the stories of post cruise positives and such. The lines really are in a tough spot and are basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. Those that like protocols are simply more vocal and assume 1/2/3 doesn't apply to them and that they are 100% absolutely right. Everyone else wants to speak for themselves and make their own choices and not be forced to capitulate under a unifying fear model. The fire/free sales also point in the direction of protocols reducing cruising. You don't have to agree with a position to acknowledge it, but in this case, it's self evident. Plus I generally lean to individual choice as a general principle, since I don't like others deciding for me also.

[normandes]

19 hours ago, Hockeydad1972 said:

Why is it any different then sitting 4 ft away from a fellow diner at another table in the MDR. No-one wore masks once they were seated so why are bars different? 

 

I was at every bar on our cruise and it never happened nor did our CD Andy.. Not sure why different ships would have their bartenders enforcing differently or CD's.. Alchemy packed every night and not one mention of sip and cover as was the Atrium,Tides, or Hat Trick.. Or the Tides Bar.12 total cases on our cruise was the rumor so definitely no outbreaks...

 

[normandes]

Just now, normandes said:

If you look at recent carnival protocol, sip and cover is only in casino.

 

[BlerkOne]

14 minutes ago, normandes said:

 

That is true if you look at what is posted on the website, which is updated occasionally. For example, the last update was today (Jan 24). Masks are still required indoors and the casino is still non-smoking. Check back tomorrow.

[BlerkOne]

12 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

I appreciate hearing the various points of view, even when I don't agree.  Sure don't understand some though lol.  We all (at least most) certainly want the cruise lines as a whole to succeed...but what they're doing now and the definition of 'insanity' are about identical.

At the end of the day, the cruise line will end up at the same point. If insanity is them taking the safest route to get there, so be it.

[asalligo]

4 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Exactly! Plus look at all the "free cruise/ $10, $25 cruise" threads people are posting about. Doesn't add up. If demand is so high, you wouldn't be giving your product away. While some may love all the protocols and empty ships, they aren't a big enough group to keep the cruise lines afloat, hence the pricing and firsthand reported low capacities being reported.   

Stock price dropping daily, cruises available at rock bottom prices that are even lower than the week before cruising closed. You have to be ignoring the obvious to think that Carnival can keep rolling along at these numbers.