What the heck?? LHR-PDX 11K EACH for business??

[khuselid]

Hi all,

 

We need one way business class from London to Portland on Sept 17 post cruise. What is going on?? United had some decent fares but I couldn't buy them on the site!! 

 

Anybody know what the skinny is or have any secrets or trilcks? Cruise leaves in August from Iceland so that leg is easy and reasonable...though higher than usual, but getting home seems crazy!

[FlyerTalker]

Have you looked at open-jaw tickets (PDX-KEF LHR-PDX)?  You are probably making it more expensive by buying two one-ways.

 

Plugging in a random departure date (since you didn't provide it) with a Sept 17 return date, I'm finding a number of round trip options for under $6400pp in business class (domestic F within the USA).  And even for a one-way LHR-PDX, I am finding numerous options from $2200 to $3400pp, using Condor, Westjet or JetBlue.

 

 

[BOB999]

One way transatlantic tickets can be very pricey, particularly in business.  The airlines assume that you need to travel and will pay top dollar.

 

I would try to book both legs of your trip on one ticket as a mult-city/open jaw trip.  I checked using a random date (9/2) for the outbound to Iceland and the whole thing came in at $5,200 on United.

 

Alternatively Westjet has a flight via Calgary that is 1,800 GBP one way.

[Globaliser]

3 hours ago, khuselid said:

Cruise leaves in August from Iceland so that leg is easy and reasonable ...

 

One additional totally legitimate idea: buy a round-trip ticket to Reykjavik. Then buy a one-way ticket from London to Reykjavik at the end of the cruise to pick up the second half of that ticket, although you must make sure you have enough time between flights because you will be on two separate bookings.

 

Alternatively, buy a round trip ticket from London to Portland in business class outbound, and then in cheapest economy inbound (ie back to London) for spring next year, because as we all know, the weather is great in London then.

[khuselid]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Have you looked at open-jaw tickets (PDX-KEF LHR-PDX)?  You are probably making it more expensive by buying two one-ways.

 

Plugging in a random departure date (since you didn't provide it) with a Sept 17 return date, I'm finding a number of round trip options for under $6400pp in business class (domestic F within the USA).  And even for a one-way LHR-PDX, I am finding numerous options from $2200 to $3400pp, using Condor, Westjet or JetBlue.

 

 

Thanks. I did that on United and found what we wanted, but it won't purchase. Searches seem to find what we need but won't let us buy them....it's really weird. I may have to call United.

 

[khuselid]

2 hours ago, BOB999 said:

One way transatlantic tickets can be very pricey, particularly in business.  The airlines assume that you need to travel and will pay top dollar.

 

I would try to book both legs of your trip on one ticket as a mult-city/open jaw trip.  I checked using a random date (9/2) for the outbound to Iceland and the whole thing came in at $5,200 on United.

 

Alternatively Westjet has a flight via Calgary that is 1,800 GBP one way.

Just so weird as I have done one way before....but I know the world has changed. I'll go back to the drawing board and work on the open jaw thing. I was just so stunned!! Yeah, I got that on United too but it won't let me pay for it. I will try to call them and see what the story is! Thanks!

[fbgd]

Most airlines will put longhaul oneways into the fully flexible category, hence the high prices.

 

You're better off doing one of the following:

1) Booking a return and throwing the return leg away (per Globaliser's advice)

2) Buying enough miles and redeeming for a one-way...ensure there is award availability and your FFP allows one-ways

3) Booking an airline that doesn't charge fully flexible fares for oneways longhaul (Aer Lingus, TAP, Westjet and a few others come to mind. They won't get you to PDX but you can get close)

4) Doing the open jaw strategy.

[khuselid]

46 minutes ago, fbgd said:

Most airlines will put longhaul oneways into the fully flexible category, hence the high prices.

 

You're better off doing one of the following:

1) Booking a return and throwing the return leg away (per Globaliser's advice)

2) Buying enough miles and redeeming for a one-way...ensure there is award availability and your FFP allows one-ways

3) Booking an airline that doesn't charge fully flexible fares for oneways longhaul (Aer Lingus, TAP, Westjet and a few others come to mind. They won't get you to PDX but you can get close)

4) Doing the open jaw strategy.

Thanks...I've been trying all these things! I will call United tomorrow and see what I can accomplish in person. I can find the flights online but it won't let me purchase. Yes, PDX is not an easy place to fly in and out of. We were trying to avoid having to change airlines and luggage etc coming home. I used to enjoy shopping for air and I was good at it....nowadays...no fun. Last cruise, in March, we had Oceania do our air and it was much less expensive....weird huh?? I will check with them as well. Thanks all!!

[Gardyloo]

Well bear with me for a minute.  Maybe this will be useless advice, maybe not.  But some questions...

 

First, how far out do you plan your trips?  I think it's safe to say that cruisers tend to plan farther in advance than other travelers; it's not uncommon to see people talking about cruise plans two years in the future.  

 

Second, how much traveling do you actually do?  I'm talking about trips where you fly for part or all of the travel, not car trips from Portland to Cannon Beach or Bend.  A couple of trips per year?  More?  Domestic or international?

 

Third, are you like me in that sitting in cattle class for hours and hours is something you'd rather not do? 

 

And fourth, do you have something of a bucket list of places you'd like to go or events you'd like to experience?

 

---

 

I've written about this before, but during the pandemic years it was kind of a pointless exercise to talk about extensive travel to multiple foreign countries, when you couldn't even travel to Canada.  But now things are loosening and reopening, so maybe it's time to reconnect with the idea.

 

For 30 years or so the big airline alliances - Oneworld, Star Alliance and Skyteam - have published "round the world" or "RTW" fares, which allow passengers to purchase fixed-price tickets that cover multiple flights (currently 16 flights is the maximum) that take you around the world, starting and ending in the same country (with a few exceptions like US/Canada.)  

 

For the most part these tickets have a maximum number of takeoffs/landings (16) and all travel must be completed within 12 months following the first flight (not the purchase date.)  The tickets are sold for travel in economy, business and first class cabins.  The RTW ticket products sold by Star Alliance and Skyteam airlines are limited to maximum flown mileage tiers, ranging from under 30,000 to around 40,000 flown miles, with the cost going up according to which tier you use.  Oneworld's main RTW product, the "Oneworld Explorer," isn't limited by mileage, but rather by the number of continents touched in the course of the trip, from three to six.  

 

They all require that you travel around the world, crossing both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans in the same direction (east to west or v.v.)  as well as following other rules regarding specific routing.  None of these are especially burdensome, but they're important.  Importantly, you can zigzag and - within a given continent - backtrack a little, but you can't re-cross an ocean once crossed.

 

Here's why I'm bringing this up.  The prices for these tickets vary widely depending on where the travel begins (and ends.)  Tickets for travel originating in, say, the USA can be almost twice as expensive as those where travel starts in some other country.  

 

Let me give you an example that might be relevant to your situation.  Right now, a three-continent Oneworld Explorer business class RTW ticket for travel starting in the US carries a price tag, before taxes and fees, of $10,426.  Ouch.  The same ticket, but with travel starting in, say, Vancouver BC, costs $7,830.  Better.  The same ticket, but with travel starting in Norway?  $5,326, like I said, almost half of the US price.

 

That's for a 3-continent ticket:  Europe, which includes the Middle East, North America (which includes Central America and the Caribbean) and Asia.  A four-continent ticket (adds Africa, South America or Australia/western Pacific) has a base price about $500 more, but you're still limited to 16 flights. and so on.

 

So back to the four questions.  Let's imagine you fly (an hour and a hundred bucks) from London up to Oslo this September, where you board a plane that takes you across the pond and to Portland, as the first flights in your newly minted business class RTW tickets.  

 

With the Oneworld RTW product (with which you can fly on new Oneworld member Alaska Airlines) you're allowed up to six flights (of the 16) within North America (which includes the Caribbean, Alaska and Central America.)  So back to the first question:  where next?  A winter cruise in the Caribbean?  Or maybe Christmas shopping in New York?  Join the snowbirds in Palm Springs or chase the northern lights in Fairbanks?  Skiing in Colorado? You choose.   Or come the spring - Cactus League in Phoenix or driving down the Blue Ridge?  Ever been to Montreal or Quebec City?  Costa Rica?  

 

Anyway, sometime after returning from Norway, you have to continue on the trip around the world.  Maybe you have your eyes set on a cruise around southeast Asia.  Okay, off from PDX to Honolulu, then on to Tokyo and down to... Singapore?  Bangkok?  Or maybe someplace like Vietnam, or Sri Lanka, or India.  

 

Then it's back to Europe, but maybe you spend some time in Jordan or Israel, Qatar, Oman or the Emirates on the way.  You have to end up back in Norway by the middle of September, but maybe Italy along the way?  Spain?  You choose.  Anyway, you find yourselves back in Oslo sometime before the ticket has turned into a pumpkin.  

 

In the course of this experience, you've flown in business class (or domestic first class) comfort, earned a giant pile of frequent flyer miles (and probably attained "elite" status in the FF program) and been to places that you haven't visited (or returned to others that were favorites.)  It's cost something like $350 - $375 per flight over the life of the ticket - not bad for Portland to Palm Springs in first class, killer for Singapore to London or Hong Kong to Tel Aviv.

 

If you spent $500 or so more for a four-continent ticket, you could skip Asia but instead fly from the US to Australia or New Zealand, then across to South Africa, then up to Europe to finish the trip, again, back in Norway.  Koalas and penguins and lions, oh my.  

 

What all these things have in common is the willingness to plan out a year's travel in advance.  And note, changing these tickets - timing, destinations - is MUCH easier and cheaper than doing it with "conventional" tickets - lower fees and more flexibility.

 

Here's an imaginary map showing a possible route for a 3-continent Oneworld RTW ticket, starting and ending in Oslo.  Here's the link to the mapping program which shows the route in more detail.  

 

 

This shows returning from Norway to Portland via British Airways' nonstop from London, then using Alaska and American Airlines to travel to San Juan for a Caribbean cruise, then back to Portland.  Then, after some time, you'd travel on Alaska to Hawaii, then across (on Japan Airlines) to Tokyo, then south on JAL or Oneworld member Malaysian Airlines to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur (maybe for a cruise, or maybe to enjoy some of the best food in the world) then on to London.  Before ending back in Oslo, the route includes a visit to Israel (could be Jordan, Egypt, the Emirates...) then back to Norway, this time via Finland (using Finnair, another Oneworld member.)

 

This would put something like 100,000 or more frequent flyer miles in your accounts (your choice of plans) which would be good enough not only to get you home from Oslo next year, but for additional travel outside the RTW.  Or, you might decide just to start another RTW when you get back to Norway, this time maybe one that includes an African safari, or a cruise around Cape Horn from Buenos Aires to Valparaiso, or vice versa.  Or New Zealand?  Nepal?  You choose.

 

I'll quit here.  Maybe this is for naught, or you're not willing to make such a big investment for air travel.  No harm, no foul.  But in case it does intrigue you I'll be glad to try to answer any other questions.  I know it's complicated, but it can really be worth it.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Gardyloo

[em-sk]

On 5/14/2022 at 11:51 AM, khuselid said:

Hi all,

 

We need one way business class from London to Portland on Sept 17 post cruise. What is going on?? United had some decent fares but I couldn't buy them on the site!! 

 

Anybody know what the skinny is or have any secrets or trilcks? Cruise leaves in August from Iceland so that leg is easy and reasonable...though higher than usual, but getting home seems crazy!

 

Most airlines charge full fare or close to full fair on one way transatlantic.   There are a few that don't.  WestJet is one airline with a decent business class product that does not charge extra.  They have several flights a day out of London Gatwick  but only a few days a week out of Heathrow.   

 

Your options are limited for getting decent prices if your doing a return ticket.

[bennybear]

On 5/16/2022 at 10:47 AM, Gardyloo said:

Well bear with me for a minute.  Maybe this will be useless advice, maybe not.  But some questions...

 

First, how far out do you plan your trips?  I think it's safe to say that cruisers tend to plan farther in advance than other travelers; it's not uncommon to see people talking about cruise plans two years in the future.  

 

Second, how much traveling do you actually do?  I'm talking about trips where you fly for part or all of the travel, not car trips from Portland to Cannon Beach or Bend.  A couple of trips per year?  More?  Domestic or international?

 

Third, are you like me in that sitting in cattle class for hours and hours is something you'd rather not do? 

 

And fourth, do you have something of a bucket list of places you'd like to go or events you'd like to experience?

 

---

 

I've written about this before, but during the pandemic years it was kind of a pointless exercise to talk about extensive travel to multiple foreign countries, when you couldn't even travel to Canada.  But now things are loosening and reopening, so maybe it's time to reconnect with the idea.

 

For 30 years or so the big airline alliances - Oneworld, Star Alliance and Skyteam - have published "round the world" or "RTW" fares, which allow passengers to purchase fixed-price tickets that cover multiple flights (currently 16 flights is the maximum) that take you around the world, starting and ending in the same country (with a few exceptions like US/Canada.)  

 

For the most part these tickets have a maximum number of takeoffs/landings (16) and all travel must be completed within 12 months following the first flight (not the purchase date.)  The tickets are sold for travel in economy, business and first class cabins.  The RTW ticket products sold by Star Alliance and Skyteam airlines are limited to maximum flown mileage tiers, ranging from under 30,000 to around 40,000 flown miles, with the cost going up according to which tier you use.  Oneworld's main RTW product, the "Oneworld Explorer," isn't limited by mileage, but rather by the number of continents touched in the course of the trip, from three to six.  

 

They all require that you travel around the world, crossing both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans in the same direction (east to west or v.v.)  as well as following other rules regarding specific routing.  None of these are especially burdensome, but they're important.  Importantly, you can zigzag and - within a given continent - backtrack a little, but you can't re-cross an ocean once crossed.

 

Here's why I'm bringing this up.  The prices for these tickets vary widely depending on where the travel begins (and ends.)  Tickets for travel originating in, say, the USA can be almost twice as expensive as those where travel starts in some other country.  

 

Let me give you an example that might be relevant to your situation.  Right now, a three-continent Oneworld Explorer business class RTW ticket for travel starting in the US carries a price tag, before taxes and fees, of $10,426.  Ouch.  The same ticket, but with travel starting in, say, Vancouver BC, costs $7,830.  Better.  The same ticket, but with travel starting in Norway?  $5,326, like I said, almost half of the US price.

 

That's for a 3-continent ticket:  Europe, which includes the Middle East, North America (which includes Central America and the Caribbean) and Asia.  A four-continent ticket (adds Africa, South America or Australia/western Pacific) has a base price about $500 more, but you're still limited to 16 flights. and so on.

 

So back to the four questions.  Let's imagine you fly (an hour and a hundred bucks) from London up to Oslo this September, where you board a plane that takes you across the pond and to Portland, as the first flights in your newly minted business class RTW tickets.  

 

With the Oneworld RTW product (with which you can fly on new Oneworld member Alaska Airlines) you're allowed up to six flights (of the 16) within North America (which includes the Caribbean, Alaska and Central America.)  So back to the first question:  where next?  A winter cruise in the Caribbean?  Or maybe Christmas shopping in New York?  Join the snowbirds in Palm Springs or chase the northern lights in Fairbanks?  Skiing in Colorado? You choose.   Or come the spring - Cactus League in Phoenix or driving down the Blue Ridge?  Ever been to Montreal or Quebec City?  Costa Rica?  

 

Anyway, sometime after returning from Norway, you have to continue on the trip around the world.  Maybe you have your eyes set on a cruise around southeast Asia.  Okay, off from PDX to Honolulu, then on to Tokyo and down to... Singapore?  Bangkok?  Or maybe someplace like Vietnam, or Sri Lanka, or India.  

 

Then it's back to Europe, but maybe you spend some time in Jordan or Israel, Qatar, Oman or the Emirates on the way.  You have to end up back in Norway by the middle of September, but maybe Italy along the way?  Spain?  You choose.  Anyway, you find yourselves back in Oslo sometime before the ticket has turned into a pumpkin.  

 

In the course of this experience, you've flown in business class (or domestic first class) comfort, earned a giant pile of frequent flyer miles (and probably attained "elite" status in the FF program) and been to places that you haven't visited (or returned to others that were favorites.)  It's cost something like $350 - $375 per flight over the life of the ticket - not bad for Portland to Palm Springs in first class, killer for Singapore to London or Hong Kong to Tel Aviv.

 

If you spent $500 or so more for a four-continent ticket, you could skip Asia but instead fly from the US to Australia or New Zealand, then across to South Africa, then up to Europe to finish the trip, again, back in Norway.  Koalas and penguins and lions, oh my.  

 

What all these things have in common is the willingness to plan out a year's travel in advance.  And note, changing these tickets - timing, destinations - is MUCH easier and cheaper than doing it with "conventional" tickets - lower fees and more flexibility.

 

Here's an imaginary map showing a possible route for a 3-continent Oneworld RTW ticket, starting and ending in Oslo.  Here's the link to the mapping program which shows the route in more detail.  

 

 

This shows returning from Norway to Portland via British Airways' nonstop from London, then using Alaska and American Airlines to travel to San Juan for a Caribbean cruise, then back to Portland.  Then, after some time, you'd travel on Alaska to Hawaii, then across (on Japan Airlines) to Tokyo, then south on JAL or Oneworld member Malaysian Airlines to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur (maybe for a cruise, or maybe to enjoy some of the best food in the world) then on to London.  Before ending back in Oslo, the route includes a visit to Israel (could be Jordan, Egypt, the Emirates...) then back to Norway, this time via Finland (using Finnair, another Oneworld member.)

 

This would put something like 100,000 or more frequent flyer miles in your accounts (your choice of plans) which would be good enough not only to get you home from Oslo next year, but for additional travel outside the RTW.  Or, you might decide just to start another RTW when you get back to Norway, this time maybe one that includes an African safari, or a cruise around Cape Horn from Buenos Aires to Valparaiso, or vice versa.  Or New Zealand?  Nepal?  You choose.

 

I'll quit here.  Maybe this is for naught, or you're not willing to make such a big investment for air travel.  No harm, no foul.  But in case it does intrigue you I'll be glad to try to answer any other questions.  I know it's complicated, but it can really be worth it.

 

 

Wow!  Great ideas to consider!  Thank you for thinking outside the box!

[khuselid]

Ok thanks all. In the meantime United has dropped their prices and added a few legs so that is helpful. I can do an open jaw for more than I want to pay....but better than it was!! Also the cruise line air is actually a bit less expensive but we have to decide if it's worth it to do Icelandic air BC which is actually more like premium econ......Great tips and in the future I hope we can plan much further ahead....it's day to day now!!

[GeezerCouple]

Gardyloo,

 

Such a great idea, and I think I read you suggesting this some time ago.

I did some daydreaming about it in the past, and then... forgot about this plan.

 

We'll now have more time for such things, so **IF** we ever travel again (covid, you know... we are very high risk 😠 ) we'll look into this.

 

For the flights within the USA (or other regions), one can "backtrack" and zigzag?

 

Could you provide a link to the actual terms/conditions/etc.
Then I can start my homework in advance.  🙂 

 

Many thanks!

 

GC

[Gardyloo]

The "backtracking" rules apply - with conditions - within continents, not countries.  The main conditions are:

 

You're allowed four flights within each continent your ticket covers, except you're allowed six within "North America," which includes Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean.  That's in addition to the intercontinental flights, so for example on a 3-continent ticket (Europe, Asia, North America) you'd first count the intercontinental flights (3) then 4 in both Asia and Europe (subtotal 11) but then 6 for North America would put you at 17, one more than the ticket allows.  So you'd have to reduce the plan by one flight somewhere within some continent.  Remember this is counting flights, not destinations, so if you want to go from, say, Chicago to Fairbanks, you'd need 2 of the 6 allowed flights in each direction, because there's no nonstop from ORD to FAI and you'd have to change planes in someplace like Seattle or Anchorage.

 

You're also only allowed one nonstop transcontinental flight; the rules list the states that form the endpoints, e.g. California and New York, or Florida and Washington, or Michigan and Nevada, etc.  (A similar rule applies to Australia, e.g. Perth to Sydney, etc.)  

 

However that still means you can zigzag a lot, you just can't use all six flights to bounce between the east and west coasts 3 times in both directions.  You're also allowed only one flight to, and one from, Alaska, and only one to OR from the mainland to Hawaii (so Hawaii has to be your first or last destination within North America, if you get my meaning.)

 

The other main limitation has to do with stopovers (24+ hours.)  You're only allowed two stopovers in the "continent of origin," so with, say four flights eligible in Europe, assuming you start the ticket in Europe, you could stop over twice but the stopover would have to be in conjunction with a plane change somewhere.  For example, say you start the ticket in Oslo, you could fly to London and change planes to Qatar and stop over, then fly to New York.  When you land in New York you'd still have two intra-Europe flights left and one stopover.  So maybe at the end of the trip, you fly from Tokyo to Paris, stop over, then from Paris to London for a plane change only, ending back in Oslo.  That's your four intra-Europe flights done (OSL-LHR-DOH, CDG-LHR-OSL) and two stopovers (Qatar and Paris.)  Hope that makes sense.

 

One of the things to bear in mind is that every flight counts against the 16, even "surface" segments where you land in one city and depart from another.  Even changing airports, e.g. JFK to La Guardia, or Heathrow to Gatwick, or Narita to Haneda, counts as a segment.  It's also worth noting that while the cost per flight is reasonable, there's nothing to prevent you from using the ticket's flight allocation strategically.  For example, intra-Asia flights can be very affordable, so using the RTW to get you to, say, Bangkok, but then riding some economy airlines around southeast Asia outside the RTW, returning to Bangkok for the next RTW segment, can extend your travels economically.  

 

Like I say, there are lots of rules, but there are lots of tricks that you can exploit to leverage the ticket.  

 

Here's a pdf of the current rules sheet - oneworld Explorer 21Apr22 (ctfassets.net)

 

If you want to do a deep dive, the Oneworld board on Flyertalk (which I moderate) can be a useful resource.  oneworld - FlyerTalk Forums

Edited May 26, 2022 by Gardyloo

[khuselid]

Golly, y'all are so clever and dedicated. I was able to get less expensive BC for our trip via Oceania. I did the same thing in March and I know some of you don't believe me, but even though these aren't super deluxe bc flights they were pretty good. We flew Lufthansa to Chicago in March and it was a lovely flight. This time, for return, we got EWR-KEF and LHR-PDX via Seattle for total of 8.5K for both of us....way better than I could do on my own!!

 

These are strange times indeed! Thanks for your ideas....maybe next year my brain will be able to digest the formula!